"Frank Zappa didn’t study sheet music, but required his music to be scored.
czarivey"
Zappa hired a young Steve Vai to transcribe his music. He later hired Vai as his guitarist.
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I am a Frank Zappa fan. I would describe him as a musical genius. I don’t think that is a snub to Bach or any other famous composer or performer. I also appreciate the combination of complex and well composer music with vocals the could incorporate humor (Don’t you eat that yellow snow) or reinforced the arrangement (City of Tiny Lights) |
@nonayerbiz - thanks for that info! |
Frank started using digital recording in 1983 when he and Mark Pinske were remastering and reconstructing albums where the master tapes had literally lost oxide or the recording was screwed up in some other way. They digitally recorded everything Frank did live using a recording truck and digitally rerecorded all the analog tapes they could find. Frank eventually ordered the two Ampex tape system to be chucked out of the control room. |
@crimsoniter - I agree; I think Dweeze is better than his dad, but being taught by folks like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani (I think I've got that right), and his heritage, not surprising how good he is. And he doesn't use wah-wah as much as his dad. Particularly liked an arrangement of 'Black Napkins' with 2 baritone saxes as the lead instruments.... |
Frank is pure genius lucky to have seen him twice so thankful that Dweezil plays his music live he is beyond incredible and at least as good if not even better guitar player (blasphemy i know i know) i must have seen him 7 or 8 times
i have 60+ Zappa on vinyl and Cd
personal fave One Size Fits All from there i could say i love so many others equally
Hot Rats Skeik Yerbouti Zoot Allures Over-Nite Sensation Apostrophe You Are What You Is Waka/Jawaka as for live albums
Roxy @ Elsewhere is a monumental release
and the Can't Do That On Stage Anymore (series of 6 albums) are fantastic
Luv Luv Luv Frank...
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Hey kingo One size fits all was my first FZ album, played to death. My fav track was San Ber'dino. |
With all of the discussion of drummers, I'm surprised no one has brought up the infamous "The Black Page #1" and the "easy teenage New York version," "The Black Page #2." Terry Bozzio talked about playing it and said, "...it just sat on my music stand and for about 15 minutes every day for 2 weeks, before we would rehearse, I would work on it. And after 2 weeks I had it together and I played it for him. And he said, "Great!!" took it home, wrote the melody and the chord changes, brought it back in. And we all started playing it."
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The reason that Zappa’s drummer auditions were “brutal” was simply that his music was brutal to play. Zappa’s compositions were unusually angular and often written in very unusual and complicated asymmetric meter (time signatures) and road maps. Most virtuoso (in the usual sense) drummers capable of laying down a great groove in 4/4 or 3/4 would not stand a chance playing many of Zappa’s compositions and would fall apart very quickly. Same with players on any other instrument. FZ’s “Keep It Greasy”: Time signature alternates between 19/16 and 21/16 with a slow section (guitar solo) in 11/4…..AND then make it groove, or improvise a solo. Good luck with that! |
@jazzguy43 + 1 |
I bought "The Mothers of Invention - Freak Out" in July of 1966 and became a Zappa listener for my entire life. Frank's music was always interesting and so perfectly rehearsed there was never a mistake. If you saw Frank in person, you would learn that he was the conductor of his "Evil Little Orchestra" and not the star performer. The musicians never took their eyes off of him because he would improvise something new in the middle of a piece as the concert was as much a free-form event as a totally rehearsed performance. The musicians were so good, well-rehearsed, and understood the music completely so that the slightest hand gesture or nod from Frank could take the entire group through a new transition into another piece. For those who think "Don't Eat the Yellow Snow," or "Montana" with the pygmy ponies and dental floss bushes are examples of why Frank shouldn't be taken seriously - I would suggest getting a copy of "The Yellow Shark." Frank was one of the featured composers along with John Cage, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and Alexander Knaifel at the Frankfurt Festival in Frankfurt, Germany. The Yellow Shark was the last album he released and the piece was performed live by the Ensemble Modern at the Frankfurt Festival. The audience gave the Yellow Shark and Frank Zappa a 20-minute standing ovation. You don't get that by being an average musician. |
Zappa is notorious amongst drummers for his brutal auditions. He wrote parts for the applicants to play, parts intentionally extremely difficult to play. Some found him to be a sadist who enjoyed humiliating other musicians. One drummer Zappa was very impressed by and greatly respected was Vinnie Colaiuta. But different writers/musicians value different playing "philosophies"/styles in their accompanists/sidemen. Danny Gatton, a virtuoso guitarists-guitarist (a far better guitarist than Zappa. Ask anyone ;-) had very different tastes in drummers than did Zappa. Gatton to his new drummer during the break after the drummer’s first set on stage with Danny: "You know all that fancy sh*t you play?" The drummer: "Yeah." Gatton: "Don’t." |
@mahler123: It was not I who compared Popular Musicians with Classical Composers, but rather Pat Metheny. In my opinion both have to be judged as farmers in their own fields, not at all the same crops. Sorry for the silly metaphors ;-) . I love, love, love J.S. Bach, but when I’m in the mood for Rock ’n’ Roll I put on a Dave Edmunds album. When I want to have a spiritual experience, I put on Bach’s Concerto For Four Harpsichords And Orchestra. Two completely different activities and experiences. Both are called music, but they are as different as they are alike. |
@pfeiffer and @baylinor : I can’t fault ya’ll for taking the conflating of Zappa and Trump in the wrong sense (though I can for not at least suspecting the attempt at humour ;-). I was speaking only of their propensity for thinking very highly of themselves, and endeavoring to persuade you of the validity of that opinion. In all other ways they are complete opposites. Trump couldn’t even begin to understand Zappa, while Frank understood Donald all too well. Zappa had a big brain and talented hands, Trump a lizard brain and small hands ;-) . |
@bdp24 - respectfully disagree, but only about Zappa.... 'Grand Wazoo'! I dont know why I couldn't remember that name, but that's actually my fave FZ instrumental album, more than 'Waka Jawaka' or 'Hot Rats', both of which are also wonderful. |
voodoolounge, we should have ask that of Steve Allen when we had the chance. ;^) I've really enjoyed FZ since the first hearing. Although I like his later albums better than the first few. Many put him down, even rock fans, because they thought he was simply crude or childish. Too bad they couldn't see he was poking a finger in the eye of general contemporary society. Regarding classical composers, I read that Zappa was influenced by Edgard Vare'se. No affiliation with JS Bach. |
I was lucky enough to see Frank twice a year during my formative years. Started late with the Bongo Fury tour. Saw him at the Park West in Chicago. Holy Smokes, was that fun. Love the Hot Rats, Waka Jawaka, Grand Wazoo era. Amazing compositions. Love, of course, the Roxy recordings. Loved Frank the best when he was the only guitarist in the band. Opened up his rhythm and lead playing. I see Dweezil anytime I can. Seem really level headed and a great musician. |
Zappa's "Blessed Relief", "Twenty Small Cigars", "Grand Wazoo" and "Waka Jawaka", along with countless others, is some of the most wonderful music I've ever heard. I saw him in concert three times and was amazed that he encouraged people to vote and had a voting registration area set up as you arrived at the venue. His testimony in front of congress concerning censorship of music is noteworthy (John Denver was with him) and a testament to what kind of a man he was. His last work at the end of his life, "The Yellow Shark" is, IMO, a final tribute to his true genius. Those who might dismiss him for his sarcasm and sexual innuendo are missing the true measure of his musical prowess. I have to say that it was Frank Zappa's music that first led me to John Coltrane...and from there into the rich and limitless world of jazz and elsewhere. |
To me, Bowie and Zappa are my two favorite rock musicians for the simple reason that they reinvented themselves over and over with different styles throughout their lengthy career. Each with about 40 albums! As far as the question, which are Zappa's best sounding album, you can pick any recorded after 1973. Truly a recording master, better than Bowie in that sense. |
It is always difficult comparing Popular Musicians with Classical Composers. In FZ case the door is open to do that because he had some aspirations in Symphonic Music. No, he wasn’t J.S. Bach. As you rightly note, most Composers are going to pale compared to J.S. Bach. A more apt comparison may be the Romantics such as Brahms, Dvorak, and Grieg. These guys had one foot in the door of popular music-most of their income came from sheet music sales from stuff that was comparatively simple—but, like Mozart, they frequently took simple song forms and ran with them, turning them into much more complicated works |
