Yes, missing a preamplifier is likely the issue. Digital equipment today can often be run without one, but they loose their naturalness... musicality. A high quality, I recommend a tube preamp should bring its heart and soul back. I would look for a used Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Vac, or Presto preamp. Invest as much as you would on a good DAC or amp.
Streaming should sound just as good as vinyl in today’s world.
Power conditioning will make your system sound better... but not more musical and natural. It will lower the noise floor and reveal more detail. I recommend Shunyata or Isotech power conditioner for all components except amplifier.. that should go straight into the wall.
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Forgot one other thing -- Auralic is streaming from wifi right now. Need to run out and get a long ethernet cable but also thought about seeing if wired connection made a big difference. Thanks!
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Appreciate the thoughts @ghdprentice ! I have heard streaming should be very close / as good as vinyl so looking forward to getting things there.
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Based on personal experience put some Ray’s tubes in the Aero.
Get rid of the surge protector. Before spending money on power conditioning have an electrician come in and run a couple dedicated lines for power supply. (I assume you own your home) Might not need power conditioning.
Go to Blue Jean and buy a Cat6a cable. You want a good cable.
Is your router/modem up to the task? Is the router configurable? Is streaming the priority? I recently bought a separate modem (Motorola) and separated router (ASUS) and believe improvement was made.
Borrow a CD transport and see if the sound changes. That will narrow the diagnostic process.
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1-quality preamp will make everything sound better
2-use eithernet not wifi. Install a good switch or eithernet filter just before the streamer. This will smooth out the sound a great deal and sound more analogue.
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Yes, adding a very good preamp will most likely improve matters as @ghdprentice indicated.
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@ale1601: Yes, if your digital is going to be via streaming your music, then you have to do it right. My current end-game audio system is a dedicated streaming system, and in over 40 years in the hobby, I’ve never been happier. As others have recommended, I highly recommend you add a high quality preamplifier, whether it be tube or solid state really doesn’t matter as long as it gives you the kind of sound quality you’re looking for. Then, go hardwire by using high quality ethernet cables, and a quality audio switch, router and streamer. Also, contrary to others beliefs, I highly recommend plugging all of your components, including your amplifier, into a high quality, non-power restricting power conditioner, like one of the Audioquest Niagara power conditioners. For your audio system, I highly recommend the Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. Make sure you use a high quality power cable from the wall outlet to the power conditioner (I even have upgraded wall outlets). If you do these things, I guarantee, your digital will sound so compelling, you will spend less and less time cranking up your analog rig. Happy listening.
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Another possibility is that you simply prefer the frequency response variations and distortion characteristics of your phono setup. I found a test review of the MoFi Ultragold MC cartridge and it is anything but flat with an over 4 dB variance between channels above 10 KHz with the distortion above 2KH rising rapidly from around 2% up 10% at 20KHz. (Lab Report from HiFi News.) This is not uncommon with moving coil cartridges. One also gets to throw the RIAA equalization curve into the mix which has a bass to treble swing of around 40 dB.
Meanwhile, your digital system is probably ruler-flat, so no surprise that you are hearing a difference.
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Even a high end surge protecter can do bad things to the sound...simply start by removing it and listen for the difference...also agree on preamp
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@hbarrel yes, they were on backorder for what felt like forever but I recently received the Ray reserves! They were free as part of a Christmas special that LTA honored even though I technically ordered a week or two after the promotion had ended.
Lots of value in these other comments; thank you all. Looks like I'm gonna test the impact of a pre-amp, dig into proper ethernet hard wiring and do some experimenting on the power side of things as 1, 2, and 3.
Comforting to know I should be able to get the streaming to a place that does not feel like a compromise.
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I used to have a Aurlic Aries G2.1 streamer. It had terrible and unreliable wifi receptions. I would get a WIFI extender and place it near your system... plug ethernet into that if it is not practical to run ethernet to your system. I would imagine the Aurlic might sound better with ethernet direct from the router... but maybe not. My Aurenders do not require it. They cashe the stream... so sounds excellent either way.
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Interesting I am running an Auralic Aries G1 via wifi and it is rock solid no issues or drop outs at all just great sound. In my opinion wifi did sound slightly better than ethernet.
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OP: Your question is most common for streaming newbies. Good SQ requires much attention to detail. @kennymacc nailed it. EVERYTHING in the digital chain matters.
The easiest and fastest path to good SQ is also the most expensive. High quality streamers and DAC’s have superior design, parts & implementation. They cost more but they save a lot of time and effort. And yes, a good preamp is integral.
For a more affordable approach, you can tweak each component in the digital chain. This means more boxes and more cables. For some people, it’s fun. For others, it’s a pain. Here are some bullet points.
- Linear Power Supply (LPS) - for the Modem/Router
- Digital Cable
- Power Conditioner
- Power Cord
- Umbilical Cord
- Clean Power
- - - -
BTW: I have the earliest version of the Auralic Aries - using WiFi. The SQ is full-bodied, dynamic, detailed and immersive. The digital chain is completely tweaked-out. It took a few years.
Good luck!
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I would encourage you to watch some extensive interviews of both Rob Watts of Chord Electrics and Mark Levinson for his Daniel Hertz products.
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A quality pre-amp can make a world of difference. I went from an NAD 165EEE to a Benchmark LA4 (great, but clinical) to the LTA MicroZOTL (recently upgraded to Level 3). The folks at LTA are a pleasure to work with as you found out with the Aero DAC. Consider their pre-amp. They have a great return policy if it doesn't meet your needs.
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It's often been said, and it's been my experience as well, that a preamplifier can add dynamics and life to your music. So that is my recommendation. The recommendations of others regarding new switches, ethernet cables, power cords and conditioners, dedicated power lines and the rest are just utter nonsense.
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Based on my prior experience with the auralic G2.2, I would agree with an above post that WiFi is not your issue. Moving to a Ethernet connection marginally cleaned up sound and marginally expanded bass output, but marginally is the key here.
I would however concur with the preamp. I’ve run both scenarios, with and without, and have mixed results on which I prefer all of which have been equipment dependent. But the commonality was that adding a preamp gave a fuller larger and more expansive presentation. And there was a vast difference swapping preamps, similar to any other component.
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Auralic wifi is decent. I doubt using cheap Ethernet cable to hardwire it will make any difference.
DAC direct to amp in my experience is not ideal and you’re using the Auralic to control volume? I would add a good preamp. Also make sure everything is broken in. If DAC is new give it around 200hrs of play time to settle.
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Help me understand how/why you don’t have a preamp on the analog side after the phono pre?
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I was wondering the same but I guess he may be able to get away without a preamp with the low power amp…still strange.
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@glenmschneider , my power amp has a stepped attenuator for volume control and my phono pre supports both MC and MM inputs and supposedly outputs a line level signal, so I figured I'd try it direct to the power amp (the Decware ZMA) and see how it sounded. and it sounds great!
I have noticed that I have to turn the volume up around 75% of total to achieve a normal listening level, which is probably not optimal (I've seen on forums people typically run that amp around 25-50% of its volume potential).
Looks like I should expect improvements across the board so long as I select the pre-amp wisely.
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Preamp is key in your setup.
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If you decide to try a preamp, you might consider the LTA Velo. It would mate nicely with the DAC. Even though the ZMA has a volume control, without a preamp you can suffer a lack of dynamics that makes the music sound flat and fatiguing.
Another question is, what are you using to connect the Aurelic to the DAC? Digital cabling is rather critical and can't be ignored. You don't have to spend a fortune, just be sure you get the right impedance match with coax cables, and avoid exotic stuff unless you really know what you want.
Everything else seems okay, except maybe the Omegas. I've never heard them but I'm not a huge fan of single-driver speakers. It's possible that your analogue setup is kind to them, as someone else suggested, but your digital setup puts demands on them that they can't meet. It might be worth borrowing a decent bookshelf speaker like a Spendor or Focal just to see if that makes a difference.
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@ale1601 you have some great gear, a preamp with your Omega speakers is likely a must. Another great point is that analogue is pleasing to the ear because it distorts sound in a way most of us find really pleasing. Digital, inherently removes that magic and performs in a linear, flat, uncolored way. You've already leaned into a DAC that's purpose is to make digital sound more analogue, more like your vinyl set up. Now you need to find synergy in your digital system. Your Omega speakers are ultra efficient, the gear you have in your chain matches their needs. But... when you have a system that's sensitive and efficient, its really sensitive the gear feeding it, which is why you need a preamp in the chain that will help match the impedance, gain that you need that will sit between your DAC and your Amp.
You likely have a miss match in your digital set up between the gain, it's likely too hot for your amp / speaker combo causing it to drive listening fatigue, a harshness that isn't showing up on your vinyl set up. I'd call over to LTA, if they think your current set up would pair well with their Pre, that would be an impressive combo and likely change the sound of your digital set up.
The other stuff all matters but not as much as dropping in a Pre that will balance things out in your system and provide the synergy you are missing, that's what is really missing, synergy between your gear and with efficient, sensitive speakers, a lack of synergy is going to be highlighted and amplified.
I'd also address your Wifi connection while you identify a pre, running a ethernet cable is your quickest way to identify if your wifi connection is hurting performance. A wifi extender as recommended can be a great option, be careful though, I had one and have tube gear and the gear picked up electrical noise that was introduced by the wall wort powering the extender.
Power can influence performance digitally do a greater extent, my experience is if you have a quality power conditioner, plugging your streamer, DAC, Pre into it can help the cause, I would stay away from plugging your amp into it. I would address this last, it will be what allows you to pull a bit more performance out of your gear but It's to ring to transform your system into something you love if you aren't really happy with the sound now.
Speakers - Omega Speakers are awesome, I live in CT and I bought a pair of Omega DynaTens, I visited their shop. Custom built, quality is off the charts for their price. Most of their speakers, yours included are made for high efficiency, sensitivity, your gear matches their needs currently but with the missing link on the pre causing a mismatch on the digital side of things. That said, it's possible they just don't suite what you are looking for when you switch to digital from vinyl. Once you get the rest of the above baked out, dropping in more traditional speakers that aren't single driver, high efficiency would be something well worth trying just to get a proof of concept. Again, though, Omega's are a hidden gem in HiFi, they are built by someone who loves what he does, pours a level of care, craftsmanship Into each speaker that is hard to match, great speakers but they are niche, very specific on their design and extremely system dependent on how they sound, perform.
Good Luck!
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IMO, it is not just about whether to get a pre or not, is more about the numbers. Your dac outputs 2 v on the single ended output. Even though Aero sings the praises of their dac serving as a pre, that output may be too low. I can share my experience. My dac (benchmark) can function as a DAC/Pre or just a DAC. When I got a preamp, and used the DAC in DAC only mode, the sound improved for the factors you describe are lacking. My DAC also has a jumper to output three different output voltages. I have tried each different output level and I found the highest level sounds best, even though traditional thinking is that such a high output voltage is less desirable. The sound is more full, bass is better, and the soundstage improved.
The fact that your analog input to our amp is higher and sounds better aligns with a theory that a higher input voltage into your amp will improve the sound. Can you try xlr balanced input/outputs? That will double the output voltage of your DAC. There could also be some impedance matching issues but I have not looked into the numbers on your system. Finally, it could just be the differences in your system between digital and analog. Do you find the digital system more detailed, which is to say, are some aspects better? Please keep us updated.
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Get a different DAC or add a pre
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Everyone touts thier gear. I dig my pre (on system page). An audiophile switch, a flter, (network acoustics, EtherRegen, Jcat etc.) serious Ethernet cable(s) and you will have a big improvement. The key is to treat your digital chain’s parts with good stuff. Look at folks system pages as a guide. The digital chain matters. Clean power mattrrs.
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While your streaming shouldn't sound "awful", there are many who find that streaming never sounds as good as analog, and certainly not identical...many also believe streaming is as good or better than anything...while your system needs some work, your personal preferences and hearing may be more suitable for analog, and streaming will be more for convenience and exploring...
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DACs have digital volume controls that use bit stripping to attenuate the sound level. As a result, sound quality deteriorates at low volumes, losing dynamics and clarity. Some digital VCs use 32-bit processing, somewhat mitigating the issue.
If digital volume controls are present in the chain, whether hardware or software, they should be turned all the way up (so they pass the signal through without performing any attenuation), and volume should be controlled via the pre’s (hopefully) high-quality analog attenuator.
@12many this might explain why you found your DAC sounding best at the highest volume setting, which probably bypasses the attenuation circuit altogether.
Volume attenuation is an art and a science. There are VC nerds out there, many of whom hold strong opinions :)
@ale1601 At the risk of belaboring the point I can’t recommend enough adding a pre to your system. Pre / amp matching should be carefully considered, but once you get the right pre in your system I think you’ll be pleased with the results.
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@12many +1 On the XLR but only if the Decware ZMA was originally spec’d with them as they were an option. It would be an inexpensive option to see if that solves the issue and then go the preamp route if needed. Had the opposite problem with a preamp so I went DAC direct to amp(SE84UFO2.1) using XLRs. Analog setup is phono pre—>Amp via SE. Sounds good to my ears. Speakers are over 100db efficient though.
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+1 @jl35
It is much easier and lower cost to get high quality Sonics from analog than from digital. When one has both, many struggle to lift their digital Sonics to be “subjectively” as enjoyable as their analog chain.
I struggled looking for a DAC within my budget that can be as sonically satisfying as my transparent analog chain. Glad I found a great sonic deal.
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Yes to preamp. No comment on dedicated lines, but a cheaper quicker fix would be the Decware ZLC which works great and provides 6 outlets. Not current limiting. I've gone through a cadre of Furmans, Decware works. Period.
Good info from others.
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