Help me upgrade my beginner system!

The room is 50% of the sound, treat your room first. Black Lion Audio PG2 is a nice power conditioner for $499. If you are going to upgrade your DAC iFi seems to get plenty of praise for reasonable prices.

If the budget is limited, I wouldn’t blow any of it on a Power Conditioner.  That is a frill component that if it does anything will enhance the last .05% of performance from a mega bucks system.  I would look at the speakers as the biggest bang for the Buck, assuming that you have optimized the room.  Consider floorstanders, 

Read the Stereophile reviews on the Peachtree and the Goldear speakers. I would look into a new integrated amp & DAC, assuming you can't use the Peachtree DAC only with an outboard integrated amp.

The first thing you should do is replace that 40+ year old cartridge or at least the stylus!

I would put it all in new speakers.

Go for high sensitivity (less power needed) so you can more easily try tubes someday.

My preference: no passive radiators, no ports, IF port front facing.

I would try to not need a subwoofer, if sub make it a stereo pair of self-powered subs, located adjacent to the FL and FR.

Some low bass starts mono, however the overtones progressively/quickly become directional

Used speakers can get you more: IF you are careful, and if close to you to listen, avoid shipping.

I would sell everything first (while saving other money). Then, when you know how much you have, see what available speakers appeal to you, ask here about them.

Your TT and Cartridge are darn good. Replacement stereohedron stylus/mono stylus/78 stylus all fit that cartridge body, nice optional duster ...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/is-a-ortofon-black-a-step-down-from-a-pickering-xsv-3000

amp powerful, MM phono built in,

Yes, loudspeakers first.

You never listed the gear from your brother that you are looking to trade in/sell?  I’d ditch the power conditioner as well, I feel that they rob the music of its emotional content.  I’m also a big fan of tubes, so a nice tube integrated amp would be on my list if it were me.

Speakers if your room is buttoned down

Looking over your system, looks like you did a good job of choosing… looks well thought out. I also think you are correct the DAC probably has the biggest opportunity for improvement.  I recommend looking at a Schiit Yggdrasil. This is in your price range and is comparable to DACs at higher prices.

 

Spend time working with speaker placement and room treatments. They can be less expensive by using carpets or real purpose built acoustic treatments.

If you added a Yggdrasil, then all your components would be performing at roughly the same level and the next move, should you want to would be raising the whole system to the next level which would be 1. Speakers, 2. Integrated amp, 3. Streamer, 4. Power conditioner. My rule of thumb for this “level uping” is each new component should be no less that 2x an investment 3x is better. While this would could be one component at a time. The resultant system would be very substantially better.

@yogiboy and @elliottbnewcombjr, I actually sent away to have my stylus analyzed under a high-powered microscope. The result was that it’s like new (<100 hours on it)!!

look at a unison research due integrated amp. with dac

it is a 180 watt hybrid amp it sounds amazing with the brx we used to sell the brxs we are a Peachtre dealeras well

 

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect nj

peachtree and unison dealers

previou golden esr dealers

Mahler123 said:

"...I wouldn’t blow any of it on a Power Conditioner. That is a frill component that if it does anything will enhance the last .05% of performance from a mega bucks system. I would look at the speakers as the biggest bang for the Buck"

Bearing in mind most on here have forgotten more than I’ll ever know about high end audio, I agree with the above said.

A. I have what I consider an old mid-level system. Adjusted for inflation, everything would run you about 17 grand nowadays. With such a system I’m not much of a believer in a power conditioner. BUT... I am a FIRM believer in using a battery backup/surge protector. APC Back-UPS to be precise. The exact model you want will depend on how much power everything draws. This protects against power surges, power drops and power outages. All of that prolongs the life of just about anything plugged into it. Examples: My 22 year old cathode ray TV still works like brand new. It gets watched every weekend. All of my 33 year old stereo equipment still all works  too. Yes, a few capacitors have been replaced but not much you can do to avoid that.

B. Speakers. Yeah, get the best you can afford. That and a clean amp/preamp will do you the most good.

I don't know your budget, but you will be very happy with, if not forever, with a Sugden class A and a pair of Tannoys...yes, I'm a broken record. 

Get some speakers. I’ve had the Nova 300 and it works great. And do the subwoofers in stereo. 

13 responses and almost as many different answers. Find a reputable dealer. One you can trust and have him give you some choices and recommendations for an upgrade to what you have. Sticking all your money into one or two improvements may lead you to disappointment.

Take your time and enjoy the journey. That's where the fun of this hobby is! It can also help you avoid disappointment.  IMHO

I suggest that you listen to some planar speakers. If you like the sound, there’s no going back.

I agree that paired subs can have a dramatic effect on the music. Best system related decision I ever made was to finally go sub. Have never looked back. Three subs is even better.

I too suggest that you talk to a dealer so you can hear some options, but it would make sense to list the kit you are inheriting as keeping some of it may be the VFM option. If the cartridge is in really good nick, you have several ways to spend your money, but suggesting speakers to hear without knowing about the room they occupy, or which dealers near you carry which brands, is probably not much help to you.

@OP. That's a nice system you have put together. I second the recommendations that you make sure any room acoustics issues are dealt with and find yourself a good dealer.

To the extent that advice can be given remotely, I agree with your focus on the DAC, not least because it will free you up to later upgrade your amp.

You haven't mentioned what cables you are using, but if your current cables are not commensurate with the quality of the rest of the system, that's a good place to start in terms of upgrades.

I agree with @yoyoyaya regarding the cables. You do have a nice system and starting with small upgrades may make a huge difference. All of the other comments are true, too. Upgrade your cartridge, room treatments, isolation devices and cables and you may not need to spend a lot of money. Keep us posted!

OP,

 If you like the Goldenear sound, them maybe look into a set of their floor standers.

All the best.

OP, you have a very nice beginner system.  Shoot, that is a worthy system of more than just beginners. 

Because you have such a decent system, I would do what others say above and just go right to the speakers. I'd upgrade the loudspeakers first and then move to upgrading other things as you see fit. 

I owned your integrated amp.  Sure there are better ones out there but it is a fine integrated--feature rich, sounds very good, etc. 

If you listen to tons of vinyl, you could start with just a dedicated phono preamp.  I took that route when I was in nearly your exact spot--based on the advice of fellow member here. It was a wonderful upgrade. But at that time, my speakers weren't begging for an upgrade.  I'm not saying yours are in necessarily in need of an upgrade...just if you are satisfied with them and you love vinyl you could get a big sonic improvement by going to a nice phono pre. 

I agree with you too on the ELAC--I'd hold steady on that guy.  Very nice product and no need to swap that out at all. 

If you are considering speakers as the potential upgrade, can you tell us a bit about what you like, your listening preferences (how loud you listen, room size, genres, etc.? 

Again, for what it's worth, I think you did a great job on that "beginner system".  I bet it sounds pretty darn good. 

Keep us posted!  I love hearing about other folks' journeys.  

New speakers!  Once you have the ones you want everything else falls into place. Speakers….

I suggest you get an inexpensive sound pressure meter and use it to help you find the speakers best location in the room

https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Pressure-30-130dBA-Warranty/dp/B00ECCZWWI/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3UUB6HY1FG98H&amp;keywords=sound%2Bpressure%2Bmeter&amp;qid=1682342339&amp;sprefix=sound%2Bpress%2Caps%2C102&amp;sr=8-6&amp;th=1

bottom thread for tripod.

Place it on a tripod at your primary listening position, seated ear level height.

Next, a CD with individual test tones, i.e.

https://www.discogs.com/release/7290000-Various-Amazing-Bytes

tracks 9-38

you can find a less costly one, as long as it has individual tracks.

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Toe-In

I use two toe-in setups

1. single listener: both speakers aimed directly at your spot.

2. listening with a friend: small table in the middle. aim left speaker at right chair; aim right speaker at left chair. that will produce very decent imaging because:

each person get’s more volume from the closer speaker his side, and more/somewhat equal from the direct dispersion on the opposite side.

so, moving the speakers when a friend comes must be easy. My speakers are quite heavy (over 100lbs each), I use 3 wheels (more weight per wheel, and 3 won’t wobble, no leveling needed) (2 front/1 rear, furniture type: dual wheel/tight axle. They move, and they stay put.

Lighter speakers, use slip material (smooth for carpet or fuzzy stuff on smooth floors. Cut size of skid plates relative to the speakers weight. Just enough that they move, then don’t move.

Note: using 3 wheels/skid plates, only 1 in the back: you need a method of preventing them from falling. Flat bottomed JSE’s, I used rear corner blocks, just above the floor normally, but touch the floor if speakers start to tilt. Current speakers, I have a skirt concealing the wheels which prevents tipping.

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Tweeters aimed directly at seated ear level. If needed: Add a block/strip horizontally across the front edge to tilt them back. Not only direct dispersion of tweeter, but it alters the angles of reflection off the floor, ceiling, side and rear walls.

A photo of my speakers innards, front ’lift’ block, and 3 wheels is seen here:

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/9511

You need to click on top right 'full screen' box to see the bottom of images and captions

 

As a start I will provide few thoughts for consideration that may help I and others provide helpful input.

From my perspective one problem you have is that the system you own seems very well balanced. Thus the 'where to start' thinking is understandable.

Have done anything to tune your room? If not would you consider doing so? Consider the room as a principle component of your system.

If looking to change the character of your system then a change in speakers would be a way to start. That may result in a change in amplification. If improving on the sound you have is the objective them improving the source components can bring about refinement. Thus you need to define your objective.

What is the priority between streaming and vinyl listening? As an example, streaming for me is background listening and a way to find new music. I otherwise listen to CDs via transport and DAC.

I would not put money into power conditioning.  A surge protector by Brick Wall may be a good idea.

 

I went for the Furman P1800 PFR Power Conditioner. Plug it into your separate circuit. Plug everything into it! Done

Furman specs here

https://furmanpower.com/product/15a-prestige-power-conditioner-w-power-factor-technology/

On sale here

https://www.proaudiostar.com/furman-p-1800-pf-r-power-conditioner-surge-suppressor.html?utm_source=Google_Shopping&amp;gclid=CjwKCAjw0ZiiBhBKEiwA4PT9z0pF29WT_wrAhAiN_w9jQYH-65SHx4yzM6k4aKDY-vwjDiKGCdGUdBoCwy8QAvD_BwE

 

 

Thanks for all of the advice so far! It's clear the most prevalent suggestion is to upgrade the speakers. @curiousjim I LOVE the GoldenEar floorstanders but unfortunately the ones I want are out of my price range. I do like the BRXs a lot but I think I will audition speakers that my store carries. They deal with PSB, Sonner Audio (I fell in love with these at AXPONA), Audio Physic, Dali, Focal, and KEF - so if anyone has any recommendations of a model you think would pair well with the Peachtree, I'd appreciate that. Cost will probably be a factor but I may pitch in some extra dollars after the trade. In terms of my room and what I listen to -  I've converted a small bedroom (12x14) into a dedicated music room. I listen to pop, rock, electronica, jazz and classical.

The next upgrade suggested was an integrated amp and/or DAC. I'm actually considering this in lieu of a speaker upgrade. While I like my Peachtree, I wouldn't mind upgrading to something else - in particular the NAD M33, which my shop carries. I lose the Elac Discovery w/Roon this way (more trade-in $$!), but I've read that NAD's BluOS ecosystem is very nice. In terms of a DAC, my shop doesn't carry anything new that jumps out to me as a must-have, but they do have a lot of used gear so there may be something in the back room that might make sense.

@yoyoyaya and @bluorion, I have an older Cardas digital coax cable going from the Elac Discovery to the Peachtree, Morrow Audio SP3 speaker cables, and an Ice Age Audio Copper-Silver power cord going from the Peachtree to the Tice. I think I would do well getting an SBooster for the Elac instead of using the native wall wart, but that's an easy fix. Unfortunately the Technics turntable interconnects are hard-wired in, so I'd need to have someone service it to upgrade those.

dvujovic

nice write up about your cartridge

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/70s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1977-02-OCR-Page-0040.pdf

 

PSB, Sonner and KEF are 3 very different but great brands, if you can try them out, (Crutchfield 60 days) I would start there. Bookshelf. 

@OP. I'd be confident that linear supply would improve your Elac, so that's an upgrade definitely well worth considering.

I'm not familiar with your cables. The best option there is to borrow something from your dealer. It will at least give you a point of reference for our own cables. One cable at a time though. First rule of audio upgrades - never make more than one change at a time!

From about 60Hz up, your speakers will more than hold their own with just about anything. But your subwoofer is an entry level unit. I would look at a REL or a pair of SVS 3000s. As for your cartridge, the stylus may be pristine, but at 50 years old, the rubber suspension of the stylus has to be hard as a rock. I would look at a high-output moving coil from Hana. If you don't listen to much vinyl, then maybe consider a DAC. Just make sure you can return it if it doesn't change things much. You have a great power conditioner, so leave that alone. I would next turn to your room. Nothing - no other component upgrade will make as much improvement to your listening. For $2500, I'd go with 2 SVS Micro 3000s and room treatment before anything else.

also, I would not say it's a beginner system, but it depends on where you look at it from. It makes you sound like you don't know what you are doing when you clearly do. If you think your weakness is the lack of a DAC, that's what you could try first. 

These are all great suggestions, however given where you are right now I too, lean towards replacing your speakers. 

You may want to consider Elac Vela Floorstanding 407 or 408. 

https://www.elac.com/category/floorstanding-speakers/vela-fs408/

You would problably get the best investment value as it has a very good frequency response (Larger Sound Stage) for the money.

@dvujovic j Your PeachTree Nova is OK not great. I had the PeachTree NOVA 150 for a few years.

I suggest you take a chance and buy the Peachtree GAN1 and the BluesNode streamer for sub integration, analog input, and MAYBE volume. I am not sure about volume.

Trade in the NOVA 300 for the GAN1.

GaN 1 | Peachtree Audio

Now this will be better than what you currently have. However, if you are willing to lose the warranty. Send in the unit to Ric Shultz at TweakAudio.com and let him do the mods that he did to my unit (I was the Guinea pig for these mods).

Digital amp mods (tweakaudio.com)

This unit is so good now that I sold $7K of gear that became redundant.

In the past, I spent around $30K to drive my RAAL SR1a headphones using 2-channel gear. The modded GAN1 is better than that on my headphones and comparable to the the 2-channel gear on my 2-channel speakers.

Since you already have a NOVA 300 this trade-in and mod is something economical.

BTW - In the PeachTree hierarchy, in a scale of 1-to-10. My old Nova 150 was a 1/10 and the GAN1 is a 10/10.

BTW2 - I use a Lumin X1 DAC as a SPDIF streamer to the GAN1 via fibre optic input to the X1. This is a $15K streamer and likely much better than the Bluesnode streamer. However, the NODE give you sub integration and analog input. Both of which I lack on my X1 streamer.

BTW3 - I think what I am suggesting is similar to Mark Levinson’s new company and product.

Maria Amplifiers – Daniel Hertz SA

 

I just saw this online.

Peachtree GAN-1 unboxing & video review | Darko.Audio

Have not watched it but the stock unit is not as good as what I have. The difference is rather big.

 

I also owned a Peachtree Nova 150 a few years ago. Ditching that amp and going to a modestly-priced Parasound A23 was a huge jump in sound quality. If you can afford it, look into Parasound HINT 6 Halo integrated amp. You can also search for used models as they are very popular and show up in the used market often. I am confident you will love the ’upgrade’.

Your speakers are quite good and will scale with better downstream components. If I was in your shoes, my upgrade path would look like this ...

1. Get rid of Peachtree Nova and replace with something like Parasound HINT 6 Halo integrated amp and DAC combo.

2. Replace your subwoofer with REL -- preferably T7x if possible. Again, readily available in the used market. However, after upgrading the amp you might not even feel the need to upgrade the sub.

3. Replace speakers ... this should be the last option. IMO, you should space out the upgrades with at least 4-6 months in between, i.e. get the new amp and live with it for at least 4-6 months, and so on and so forth.

A decent surge protector is different from a power conditioner and yes we all need one.  We just had a power outage that tripped the protectors in all 3 of my systems.

Everything survived, thankfully 

Definitely NEED to replace the cartridge. But most importantly you should spend all the rest of the money on new or used better speakers. Power conditioner is a total waste of a plug at your level. 

Very appreciative of all the passionate advice! I'm going to contact my local store and send them my trade-in list and go from there, as well as get their recommendations. At this point, I've not ruled out room treatments, a speaker upgrade, and/or an integrated amp upgrade.

This will probably take a number of weeks to work through but I'll definitely report back on what I got and the results.

There is NOTHING wrong with the DAC in your Peachtree.  It sounds better than you think.  Of course, if you're hell-bent upon spending money, then by all means do so, but you'll be throwing it away.   I run the early model Peachtree DAC-iT.  Your amp will be running the newer iTx version.

I once had a chance to do a serious comparison with the Schiit Yggy and the PS Audio DirectStream.  The consensus that day was that the Schiit was well...  Most there actually preferred the Peachtree over the PS Audio.  I liked them both and felt the PS might be a little better, but only a little.  And certainly not $6000 worth better.

Your Peachtree amp has plenty of muscle.  The rest of your system is really quite good.  Not extreme hi-end, but will work just fine thank-you.  You would have to spend a LOT of money to improve on your turntable.

As for speakers, well the sky's the limit.  If your current speakers are on stands, then a modest floor standing loudspeaker won't take up any more floor space.  What would be a very good match, be a significant upgrade from what you run now, and would be dirt cheap for what you'd be getting are some used SEAS Thor speakers I saw on a Canadian website, or a pair in Arizona.  They would work great with your Peachtree.

At one time I compared the preamp + amp sections of the Peachtree Nova 150. I had this unit for about 3 years. I forgot how I did the separation of the different parts to test, but I know I did do that and came to the following conclusions:

- the preamp section is terrible

- I think I also thought the DAC was terrible

- the amp section was pretty good, though nowhere close to the Peachtree GAN1 that I mentioned above.

I think it laudable that you are interested in working with and supporting your local audio store. You have some great speaker brands to choose from. I agree with grislybutter that bookshelf speakers would be ideal for that room, and I think would offer the biggest bang for the buck. Not sure that you mentioned what electronic brands they offer. I agree that the Peachtree is the weakest link in your system FWIW.

@dvujovic 

There are used GoldenEar Tritons that may be in your price range.  I saw several under $2k

Wanted to loop back and update everyone on what I ended up doing. After trading in all the gear I had, I did a lot of auditioning, thanks to my local store. I mostly tried out integrated amps to replace my Peachtree, and boy did that make a difference. I ended up demoing a Hegel H190, Rogue Audio Pharaoh II, Margules ACRH-3, NAD M10 V2 and NAD M33. The Margules, in my system, sounded the best, handily.

I also decided to replace the Elac Discovery with a HiFi Rose RS250A Streamer/DAC. Another huge improvement in sound. The Margules and Hifi Rose marry extremely well with the GoldenEar BRXs, so I think I'll be set for quite a while. If I do upgrade in the future, it'll be speakers first, then probably a dedicated DAC.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - I'm very happy with my updated system!

That sounds like a nice system. The BRXs are highly thought of. I've never heard them but I have a pair of T1s that are incredible!

Thanks for the update. Good to hear you obtained such satisfaction. Enjoy!

cool upgrades! I'd love to know what speakers you'll be looking at