Does Every Track Sound Great on Your System?

Everything sound great on my system...

I know why and how it is such...

And i listen the acoustics trade-off choices of the recording engineer...

it is enough for me to enjoy music in ALL my albums..

I listen classical ,jazz, Indian and Persian ... No pop nor rock...

I listen in near listening field now in my acoustic corner with heavily modified speakers with holographic imaging  a soundstage encompassing out of the speakers plane and with TOP headphones with out of the head sound ...

Yes a consistent frequency response across different songs is a challenge.  You have two choices.  Optimize the bass for each song or shoot for an average that sounds best for most and live with it.  

Diana Krall's Temptation sounded OK acoustically) without any adjustments on my system.  While playing Almost Blue the bass wasn't as prominent but still withing my limits of enjoyment. 

What helped me was lowering the crossover frequency of my subs and moving them away from the wall.

Do you have a sub, or a method to adjust bass? Every room and setup is unique, so finding "0" is always a bit of a compromise unless you adjust on the fly. Once in a while I adjust for flyers, but usually just let them play out. If that’s a song you listen to often, you can try some bass reduction, move your listening position a bit, or even pull the speakers out from the walls some.

Hard to say since it’s relative to what you like and how your system sounds but it sounds good on mine.  Definitely bass presence but not too much.  There are a few songs that sound anemic on my system but that’s just the recording since others sound full.  I was just listening to an album that sounds “thin”, Van Halen 1984.  Fleetwood Mac’s Rumours sounds fantastic and is the sweet spot for how I like songs recorded.

Best to just enjoy the actual music.

SQ can vary listening  to different genre recording and media.

This is a good question. Over time folks struggle with their system and different recordings.

My first reaction is that you are listening to your system and not the music. You are focused on a couple parameters. I think this is probably because of your system, not be cause you are focusing on the wrong thing. When I sit down and listen to my system, I am instantly drawn to the music… I have to force myself to listen to the system. In a couple of earlier iterations my system stuck out and I was drawn to listen to it (and would get bored pretty quickly).

I have continually learned about what makes a system sound good. After fifty years, I am now of the mind that the real keys are overall tonal balance, midrange bloom (high resolution in the midrange), as well as rhythm and pace. Your observations strike me as those one would make with a system that is shy on midrange as well as rhythm and pace. Because instead of drawing you in to the intimacy and emotional content of the music you are drawn to the ends of the spectrum and their balance.

Typically if your system highlights the details you are drawn to the mastering techniques and venue instead of the content. This will make many recording sound off. My system emphasizes the midrange without overemphasizing the detail (it’s there, just not too obvious) and the rhythm and pace draws me in. Almost all albums sound great. There are some simple terrible recording, like early Yardbirds that sound terrible, well, because they sound like tin.

@ghdprentice +1.  I find myself almost always being drawn into the music rather than listening to my system. I often find myself tapping my feet in time.  I never really thought about it the way you expressed it.

Early Beatles and Stones CDs always seemed thin to me.

@danager & @tablejockey   "Optimize the bass for each song or shoot for an average that sounds best for most and live with it."  I identify with this.  I listen to music that ranges from electronic dance or club music to solo vocals and it is hard to get it all right.  

@knotscott I can adjust the bass by plugging a port or there are jumpers on the back of my speakers that can bump the bass up or down a db.  I am wearing out the carpet though by adjusting it for one song, and then the next it is not right so I adjust it again.  

@jastralfu Thanks.  Glad you get the bass in that portion of the song.  It is a bit much on my system for my ears and I like bass.  Maybe it is my room or a node or something.  

@ghdprentice   You know what I am doing and you are spot on with my mind set.  I am hyper analyzing the sound because I am evaluating a new amp.  You know how it is when testing out new gear - I am in that mode and trying to decide whether to keep it or box it up.   I love the mids and treble, but it is more bassy.   I am getting lost in the  mids and treble for songs so I am understanding what you are saying - I just have to play another song.   I find myself lost emotionally in a higher percentage of songs then before but then on some songs, but not all, the bass is too much.   Might just be the song or I don't like songs with too much bass or particular frequency or maybe a room node.  Yet on other songs I love the extra richness and power in the low frequencies so I don't want to tone down the bass on those songs.    

We are all chasing perfection on a budget.

@12many   Can anyone listen to the first 20 second of the song Temptation by Diana Krall from the Girl In The Other Room album and let me know if there is a bass component that is a bit much? The vocals sound good so no issue there.

As requested, I’m listening to track 3 “Temptation” right now. The upright base is in perfect balance with the rest of the music. Very taunt with no overhang. If you’re running full range speaker, you may consider pulling them out from your walls as others had suggested. If it’s subwoofer/satellite combo, you need to dial down your subs. But if your speakers have a one note problem, then you need better speakers. But try above suggestions first.

Just my humble suggestions.

Pretty much yes! I have yet to hear something sounding bad.

OP,  Can you live record the song with your system and upload? Alex/WTA

Does Every Track Sound Great on Your System? No because some recordings are poor. And some are fantastic. 

Bass balance can be a real problem when you have a subwoofer. The best solution is to get a Schiit preamp with continuosly variable volume, not incremental or push buttons. The Jotunheim has a nice big volume knob that makes this easier. If you don’t want to spend $400, their $200 preamp will work just as well minus the larger knob. both preamps have RCA to XLR capability. Run a cable from the sub out to your listening spot and run a cable back to the input to your sub amp. Set your sub amp so the 12 oclock setting on your preamp would be like your regular subwoofer setting. Every tune needs its own setting, one setting is never right for everything. With most things, from here you can get nice bass balance with small tweaks. This is my secret weapon. It takes listening and practice, but you won’t be stuck with settings that don’t work most of the time.

12many

05-02-2024 6:23am

By way of example with a focus on bass, for some songs I like the amount of bass, then another song I feel like it needs more bass to hit harder, and then another song I feel like there is too much bass and it is boomy. Does that ever happen to you? I feel like I am getting the treble sorted out, but going back and forth on the bass.

@12many might be a stab in the dark not knowing what your setup is, but I’ll venture bass can be a most unstable variable among different albums, or even among different tracks on the same album.

One reason being, how variable mastering setups and masterer’s impressions can be. It’s a mess. I adjust my stereo subs manually among albums / masters because of this. For someone surfing across albums while streaming, it would not be a reasonable strategy. I prefer it to running the sub plate amps near max and using DSP to equilibrate the low end among albums. For anyone who doesn’t mind really working out their sub’s amps and/or who has a more sophisticated digital path for bass management, there can be less strenuous options, but intervention will be needed nonetheless. The only real way around (i.e. no DSP nor frequent level adjustments) is if you’re willing to oscillate between hearing weak bass and really weak bass, depending on the album / master. Reading the linked paper should help.

@ghdprentice Well stated. I also am drawn into the emotion of the performance, not the system.  Just as you articulated, with previous systems I did the opposite and became fatigued quickly.  The attributes of a musical system to me are timbre, tonal balance, PRAT, micro/macro dynamics, and the ability to reproduce harmonic decay.  I prefer an organic presentation with dense images. 

@12many No system will correct poor recording engineering.  I have found overly analytical systems will highlight poor engineering.  You indicate you are evaluating a new amplifier that is augmenting bass on recordings engineered with powerful bass to a degree you find unpleasant.  The increased bass performance of your new amp may be overloading your room rather than a specific fault of amp or a system mismatching issue. My recommendation, if you have not done this already, is first attempt to tweak speaker or room treatment positioning.  That may balance bass response. If it does not work you have a decision to make. When evaluating bass performance, I recommend you focus more on timbre and tone, micro/macro dynamic performance, ability to drive PRAT, and ability to reproduce secondary harmonics and decay, not on power per se.  If balancing works, determine bass performance using my recommendations to determine if your new amp is better.  Make the final decision based on which amp lets the music touch your soul so you stop listening to your system. 

Does every Track sound great on my system? The answer to that is no. Some recordings benefit from high-quality production and engineering while others suffer from a lack thereof. That’s a variable that is inherent  and my system won’t make a poorly engineered recording sound “great“ and I don’t think any system could possibly be different. It doesn’t mean that I can’t enjoy the music if the engineering is not masterful, but it won’t sound truly great at least to my ears. for example, I enjoy pretty much all of the music from Al Stewart. His music that was produced by Alan Parsons is, however, qualitatively different because Alan Parsons had a genius for production and engineering.
If that genius is not present, there’s not going to be any high end equipment, room, treatments, acoustics, or whatever that will cover for its absence. That doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the music but great is a relative term and it won’t be great Compared to music that has been masterfully produced and engineered

Recording quality is a huge variable that probably isn’t discussed enough and that’s probably because there’s not much we can do about it

My system with 2 REL subs rarely need adjustment, but I can easily turn the bass level up or down on the RELs (easily accessible using the infamous "chicken head" knobs) or use my Schiit Loki Max to EQ an out of balance recording (seriously, everybody should have one if these). Another option is to shut it all down, put my face in my hands, and start sobbing.

IF one listens to a variety of music, from different types of producers and companies:

Recording quality varies.

Mastering quality varies.

There are different purposes for different mixes.

There are so many variables.

How *could* they all sound good on one's system?

Great question! The more you go up in electronics, the more revealing your system becomes. Sometimes there are differences in SQ within songs on a side of a vinyl record but more frequently the differences in SQ occur on different sides of an album. 

Less expensive gear doesn't pick up these SQ differences. That's why rock, for example, is very hard to get right with vinyl on high end systems but generally sounds good on less expensive systems.

It takes a lot of work to get a high end rig to sound amazing both in gear symmetry and software. Just throwing expensive gear together and expecting great results is a recipe for SQ frustration and disaster. "Ignorance is bliss" applies to rigs that don't detect subtle differences of SQ information in the grooves and there's nothing wrong with that because it's all about enjoying the music...

It's ALL in the recording. 

The bass is full but defines in these songs from Diana.

there will be recordings in any audio system that won’t sound like master recordings . For example in the 60s many rock bands just starting out could not afford the best mastering equipment ,or mixing artist. Some may have too much top end, some endemic in Bass. Some mono recordings and older single miked mixes were masterpieces. More then 1/2 recordings out there are far from ideal.

I play music from all different types, which is far more challenging . Even when I owned my Audio store and $100k audio  systems not  everything sounded like it was being played live in the room ,that would be optimum , but almost impossible 

unless you cherry pick the records,and artist.

12 many my friend the moment he listen. The first thing He does analyze. Never the music.He is into treble bass stuff. Then our listening sessions get ruin.I decided to make a deal with Him. If He comes to listen to my system . No reviewing and analyzing allowed.After many listening sesssions? He learned and got thru the analyzing stage. We are both happy listening now.

Does Every Track Sound Great on Your System? No because some recordings are poor. And some are fantastic. 

The more I improve my system, the easier it is to distinguish quality recordings/less compression, etc. from bad ones. Some music sounds fantastic and some, as recording/production details are revealed, sound thin, anemic. 

Every song should sound as good as the quality of the recording allows. Meaning a poorly recorded album will sound as good as it can but it will never equal the sound of a high quality recorded one. To try to achieve similar results from poorly and well recorded albums would be like chasing the dragon.

Try a Charter Oaks PEQ-1. The worst recordings can be markedly improved, the best, maybe not so much if at all. 

Agreed, in worst case scenarios, I use my Schiit loki max and it does a great job on poorly recorded albums.

IF your system is capable of sounding great on some tracks, bass/mids/highs and not others, it’s the fault of the recording, not your system.

musicians, placement of musicians in a space, specific mics used for individual instruments/voices, proper levels for original recording, all the mess of great/good/bad decisions by the engineers post recording, you are listening to the result of that mixed bag.

When it's great, my friend and I often look at each other and say "these guys knew what they were doing".

I don’t try to adjust anything to improve the track, EXCEPT, I love remote balance

to correct/improve imaging that is there but a bit off for who knows what reason. The more revealing your system becomes, you more readily hear a slight imbalance. A slight tweak of balance can make a surprising amount of improvement, not just the centered singer, but all players across the width of the stage are more distinct, sound and location.

And if you need to improve well recorded albums, you need to improve your listening room and system first.

As does @bigwave1 , I also own a Charter Oak PEQ-1. Two, in fact. One for my headphone chain and one for my big rig. A lot is written about this in Equalizer in a Hi Fi System thread over there. Pages and pages comparing and contrasting digital vs pro analog EQ (like our CO PEQ). Schiit vs other pro analog pieces. It’s a great thread for anyone who wants to deep dive into this subject. I have been using my Charter Oak PEQ-1 for 10 years. I LOVE it. @bigwave1 and I have shared positive experiences with this device. Not all recordings are created the same. A pro analog EQ can really shine up dull recordings. I use mine for old rock records all the time. 

No remote on the Charter Oak makes it an impossibility for my setup. Hence the Loki Max.

I poured my heart and soul into that other thread I mentioned. I’m pretty passionate about the benefits that can be obtained from such devices. Heck, there’s even a guy on that thread who posted about his Manley Massive Passive in his very hi fi rig. Another has the legendary Mark Levinson Cello Palette preamp and EQ. These wonderful pieces of kit can be every bit as high end as any audiophile component. 

"All sound good on my system" as i also said does not means that heavily mixed pop music badly recorded sound suddenly "audiophile. Not at all . Crap stay crap...

But when you can hear the trade -off choices of any recording you are astounded to hear for the first time all acoustics parameters pertaining to each album...

The timbre of the playing instrument suddenly communicate spatial information and location of the recorded instruments and more hues.

Before the improvement in your system you could not hear WHY and HOW bad the recording was now you hear  how bad and why it is so bad (mixing bad tricks for example)...It stay as it was before the improvement in the system/room but now you hear how and may even enjoy it better if you like already this music for this same reason...if you dont like this music you8 hate it more knowing why ...😊

When we listen music we hear three phenomenon :

the music,

the sound quality of our system/room but through this ,

I hear also the acoustics trade-off set of choices of the recording engineer from the album itself ...

And we are happy "all sound good" because we dont confuse the three phenomenon  after the improvement in the same bad acoustic soup ...

if what i said was not true i would have never been able to tune my room , unable t6o distinguish what comes from the recording acoustics trade-off  and what come from the system room limitations.😊

IF one listens to a variety of music, from different types of producers and companies:

Recording quality varies.

Mastering quality varies.

There are different purposes for different mixes.

There are so many variables.

How *could* they all sound good on one’s system?

There is a piece, called NGTUBEEQ by Wes Audio that is all analog and with stereo link to automatically match sides when one dial is turned. It uses a digital software to control the unit from your computer. Or you can turn dials yourself. It probably sounds utterly incredible for a cool 6 grand. Insanely over the top for home hi fi. But would integrate fine. XLR balanced. One day…

@OP. There are two possibilities here. The first is that you have room problems. If you have, depending on the key of the song and the bassline, some tracks may sound right and others wrong.

The second is just the fact that depending on the choices made in the recording and mastering, bass sound can differ quite radically across different recordings. Also, a double bass sounds fundamentally different to an electric bass even though they have the same nominal frequency response (like for like in terms of four string basses).

Assuming there aren't equipment or room problems, there is no "right" amount of bass - it varies.

I have the Loki Max, because someone mentioned it on this forum. I agree, it has three presets, plus a bypass. It helps take the edge off some recordings while opening up the imaging. I concur, get one if you don't have one. The age of the equalizer is back.

The LM and Lokius don’t play in the same ballpark as the aforementioned pro pieces. They are sonically inferior. I won’t elaborate here but I’ve done so EXTENSIVELY on the Equalizer in a Hi Fi System thread. As have others there. If you just limit yourself to Schiit equalizers and never hear any pro gear then you have no idea what you are missing. Please, if you want the highest fidelity in an equalizer, then please do yourself a favor and read the other thread. 

There are so many factors that determine how well a particular song sounds, especially the room dynamics. The song for me that"s always strange in its sound in my room is "At Last" by Etta James.  The standup bass in that song always makes my ceiling sound like people with heavy boots are walking up above. 

tlcocks,

I agree, but the $6k is a bit steep for my system and my ears are getting older. I'm saving the money to build a dedicated room for now, no parallel walls or ceiling...acoustic treatments. Maybe when I have that project done I will re-visit.

@katzenjammer27 , both of my CO’s are about 10 years old. They sound phenomenal. They were worth 2700 new in 2013. They are rare to pop up used online. But they do. That’s how I got my 2nd. That’s how @bigwave1 got his. You’ll pay approximately 1800 give or take for a used one. Other options are simply other pro pieces new or used. Gearspace is a great forum for recording pros with threads. Like here of Head Fi. Great resource. Also, look for deals and lists of pro gear for sale at stores online like SoundPure, B H Photo, Front End Audio etc. 

one of my CO  has a new hiss in left channel. It’s subtle. Not heard while playing music. And SQ as stunning as ever. But may be early age related decline of capacitors or such and may worsen and eventually affect SQ. So I am going to demo in my home in about 2 weeks the Hendyamps Michelangelo. Way easier to use than the Wes Audio piece and more akin to my CO in functionality and cost. Will provide feedback once I’ve done so. Front End Audio sells them. Made to order. Can be either high output MOSFET SS or tube. 

Getting up from listing chair and going to rack and making adjustments you can’t hear unless you are back in listing position must be very Keystone cop like.

Still this looks very cool.

Found this The Audio Hunt’s Top 5 EQ Units. Hymn,

I listened to Temptation on my main system and headphone system. Sounds great in both cases. No criticisms or oddities come to mind. Only it sounds fantastic. 

@wsrrsw 

You made my point real well. No remote on a EQ unit is worthless in my listening room setup. Since the ones who are  pushing the Charter Oak don't post their systems, I imagine they must be sitting at a desk by their EQ unit doing their listening. Otherwise it would be a lot of getting up and down to get it just right. No thanks. No remote, no EQ in my case. Thanks for the Loki Max. No wonder it has been out of stock. Great invention, remote EQ!

Actually (I think I stated this earlier) you can completely control the Wes Audio piece from your listening chair with the provided software app and a laptop. There’s your remote. 

I felt at this point since I’m using the piece with synergistic success in two separate chains that I’d post some history on it. I initially bought it from SoundPure pro audio to insert in the tape loop of my Bryston B135 SST2 integrated amp with onboard dac. That was about 2013. About 3 years after Mike Deming at Charter Oak started producing it. Mike was well know for using highest quality parts and hand crafted attention in making his mics compressors and equalizers and his equipment has always sounded highly musical with excellent resolution and staging. I felt immediately I had struck gold having that EQ of his in my tape loop on my hi fi amp. The sound has always been magical. Even on the best recordings I preferred looping it in with the click of a button. Talk about a true bypass. Clicking out the tape loop you have the true straight source line in. The sound though with loop in has always been preferable. Even as I advanced recently my headphone chain rapidly and my listening skills advancing as well. 
So, after years of enjoying this magic sauce in my big rig, I made a friend here on head fi when I purchased the Fostex TH900 and a Mojo2 and started chatting about them on Fostex forum. A really good guy many of you know named Geoff. We have remained close as “odd fellows” because I like to EQ a lot, mainly tone shaping, but Geoff doesn’t do much. Yet we share stories. We share listening observations. I read his excellent reviews, we totally respect each other’s differences in our respective approaches to developing our hi fi chains. It was because of my friendship with Geoff that I built out a much better desktop headphone chain than my Th900 and Mojo2. I now have Matrix Audio X Sabre 3 serving analog high end balanced source material to my Headamp GSX Mini balanced amp and out to my Hifiman HE1000SE, otherwise known affectionately as HEKse. While the sound quality was super, I still felt compelled to try the professional balanced analog mastering EQ by Charter Oak in my chain. Fell in love with it there too. Bought another one used in top notch condition from a studio engineer on Reverb and now I own 2. 
Simply put, this piece has uniquely amazing musicality for pro gear and amazing synergy therefore with the robust full throated beautiful mids found in high fi gear. It’s worth noting that I’ve had the pleasure of comparing it in my big rig to multiple analog EQ pieces renowned in mastering circles as well as the Schiit Loki Max. It beat the Avalon AD2055 as well as the Millennia NSEQ4 by a noticeable margin in the more musical and less analytical department. Margins close here though, as all pieces well known in studios across the globe. It TROUNCED the Loki Max. Schiit Loki Max and Lokius are the only “hi fi analog” EQ devices made specifically for audiophiles and home playback systems that I’m aware of. If any of you are acquainted with these EQ’s, I will simply tell you that you have no idea how good tone shaping analog EQ can sound in a high Fi configuration until you’ve heard the Charter Oak. The Schiit products, I’m sorry to say, just aren’t in the same ballpark. The Charter Oak handily beats my my Auralic Aries DSP parametric. Same with Roon’s. Just no contest. 
There is one unfortunate caveat though. Mike Deming no longer makes them and hasn’t for at least a few years. A California company has taken over the name and production of the last several years’ units. Mike Deming stays in occasional touch with me and has verified that these units don’t sound as good as his production era ones. So if you look for one online used, check to see if the beautiful gloss faceplate finish has disappeared as well as the numbers on the left and right master gain dials. If so, don’t purchase! Check serial number and bounce it off me. I’ve attached two pics. It’s a beautiful piece. This thread is simply my paying homage to a uniquely synergistic and transformative piece that never quits thrilling me for a decade now. I felt I owed it to Mike and Charter Oak to write about it here, as it’s meant so much to me in my hi fi endeavors. Oh, and Cardas Clear Sky XLR cables highly recommended in connecting your CO to your hi fi amp. 
Thanks for letting me share!

sorry so long. Gear in here. 

So the speakers are Martin Logans. That’s not in there. I use Transparent speaker cable. The short coaxial digital cable connecting my source streamer Auralic Aries is a Bryston cable. As mentioned in the post, I have 1000 dollars worth of Cardas Clear Sky XLR balanced cable connecting the EQ to the tape loop of the amp. 
if you’ll humor me and wade through all of the post, you’ll find a quite respectable and quite hi fi headphone chain. Used same Cardas cabling to insert the EQ between the source and the desktop amp. The HEKse, by the way, are simply AMAZING headphones. The headphone chain honestly sounds freaking unbelievable. Particularly with CO EQ in there. 

My apologies so long. It answers your questions about me. I really do need to update equipment in proper manner here. Haven’t done it because I’m over Head Fi more. 
oh, as far as getting up and adjusting and sitting down. I do it easily once in a while if I change an album and the tonality is different. It’s really not hard. Just adjust bass and treble dials usually 

I use no eq or room correction.  Great tracks sound great, good tracks sound good, and lousy tracks sound lousy.  But you know why they sound lousy.

@tlcocks 

I really appreciate all the info you have provided and am happy you are so pleased with this in your system. Looking at their website, it is undeniable that the advantages of this unit are multiple over others. But, as quoted in their website, this is first and foremost intended for studios. In a dedicated listening room such as mine, it would simply be overkill as only my speakers cost more than it. And I use my EQ probably much less than 5% of the time. That's why the Loki Max in my case makes much more sense. But good for you!

@wsrrsw , so this doesn’t become a repeat of the other thread, I really recommend reading IT before concluding that a Schiit equalizer is best for you. Or personally reach out to @jtcf ​​@bigwave1 @mirolab @ellajeanelle ​​​@dgarretson. The last one has the Massive Passive. @mirolab records in his own home studio. They will give you a wealth of information. It’s all on the other thread though.