I don't know the PS Audio unit, but I've had a few Chord devices, including DAVE, and I found all of them to be too dry and clinical in my system for my taste and went with an R2R DAC, in my case a Holo May KTE; other people love Chord gear.
DAC experiences?
Hi guys,
thanks for all your great advice so far. I come to you with DAC questions. I’m interested to hear your opinions on the Chord Qutest vs PS Audio DirectStream Mk2 vs Chord Dave.
I know they all sit at different price points, but I have a few options at good used prices and I would love to hear insights and experiences on these DACS, their sound, and living with them day to day.
I’ll be using Nova III floorstanders, Luxman 509z integrated, and for now a Node Icon N530 as transport but with a view to upgrade streamer.
tia
Stephen
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There are tons of used DACs out there at good prices so don’t limit yourself to just those three. Better to share your budget, what specific improvements you’re looking for, and what sound characteristics are most important to you and you’ll get good and more targeted recommendations here. One other thing to seriously consider would be an upgraded linear power supply for your Node from Teddy Pardo, LHY, or SBooster as many have found that to provide a significant performance boost and only costs around $400. |
I cannot match a 1000 bucks system with a dac in the same price range... All four low cost dac i tried are not good ( unnatural timbre )... The only one at low cost i kept was the French battery SPS dac TDA 1543 who give a natural timbre... The other dac save one small Hidizs dap i use walking are in a trash bin , the last one cost me near 200 bucks ( Douk gave me an excellent tube equalizer but their Q11 dac is not in the same league as the French Dac : i dont give a damn about the illusion of clarity and details if timbre is not natural ) .. i am happy with the one i kept luckily ... Many people had no idea about "natural timbre" perception ... it is why many low cost dac are sold and bought ... If i had 1000 bucks i am sure i will had one who is good... Better than the french dac ? i dont know tought what price i must pay to beat it ... Anyway you cannot judge high end dac in low cost system... I could with my headphone which are really high end even in today market ... |
I think you’ll rarely find people upgrading directly from the Qutest to the Dave, as they are on distinctly different levels. However, audiophiles and reviewers often compare the TT2 + M Scaler combo against the Dave, and that’s where things get more interesting. Reviewers generally find that the combo delivers greater instrument separation and deeper soundstage, while the Dave on its own remains more transparent—even though it has fewer “taps” in its digital filters than the TT2 + M Scaler. Then, when you combine Dave with Mscalar, the details and the depth are further enhanced. |
@mahgister is this the French DAC you're talking about? http://audio.starting-point-systems.com/ |
yes this is it. For the price it is very good...( i paid it 20 canadian bucks on a bid many years ago, 8 years i think )
If my budget will make me able to upgrade it i will be afraid to do so without listening the contenders... I will be more assured to beat it with something over 1000 bucks... The problem of low cost dac is the "timbre" , they all sound unnatural, at least all those i tried ... With my low cost system which is very satisfying i dont look for any upgrade after my optimization ...But the optimization takes me a long time... I listen music and participate a lot in Audiogon music threads ... " minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold " is here. It is enough for me to feel no frustration at all ... With headphones or speakers ...
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Chord DACs are know to be on the detailed / dry side. The PS Audio DAC is warmer and more natural. If you want an outstanding natural sounding / musical DAC, look for a used Audio Research REF DAC 9. That is basically what I use in my system (actually the DAC REF CD9 SE), I have compared to much more expensive DACs. It does not do DSD... but is exceptionally detailed, and musical. |
I also found Chord to be too dry/clinical. I had the Qutest. I went through a Weiss and ML, also felt both were too clinical. Currently I have a PS Audio / APS Audio Transformers Direct Stream Signature Series upgraded MK1 DAC. It sounds beautiful and allows my system to be very revealing, but warm. The guys at APS Audio Transformers do an amazing job and really improve the sound of the PS Audio DS with top of the line components and better power supply. My two Cents |
I owned Qutest and Hugo TT2. I also owned PS Audio DSD MkI. Never heard DSD MkIi or DAVE. Between Qutest and DSD MkII my pick would be DSD as it sounds bigger, has better soundstage and is a bit more engaging. I’d skip Hugo TT2. Didn’t care for it although it sounded pretty good. Wasn’t as engaging. |
I upgraded from the PS Audio mk1 Directstream to a Mola Mola Tambaqui last year. I listened to both with an audiophile friend and found the PS Audio compared favorably with the Tambaqui. It was still a worthy upgrade but I was impressed as to how the PS Audio compared to the Tambaqui.
if you can get a used mk1 unit, go for it. I doubt you will be disappointed. |
OP I owned the middle tier CHORD products in the years past and after listening to the Denafrips, I made the switch. I did NOT own or heard the Dave But generally, the CHORD has a distinct "house" sound. it's very detailed and too clear that others here say its clinical. IF that is what you are going for, then get the DAVE as it is their flagship. i have not heard the PS audio, but they do have a trial period. I highly suggest that you take that into consideration. As others have posted above, some have posted terrific experiences with Chord, and I believe it. It's all about system Synergy and what you want to hear.
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If Hidizs pro80 (which is good as a DAP) or the Douk Q11 chinese dac is not very good for "timbre" natural perception... I doubt Topping or SMSL low cost dac will do better... (Most reviewers had no idea what is timbre natural experience or are liars if i judge them from the review of the Douk Q11 after which i purchase it because my SPS dac was broken. I tried linear power supply, better cable, Buffer and filters, nothing transform this timbre dac experience in my headphone or speakers in natural timbre not digital timbre ) I love the Douk pre-amp tube and equalizer T8 , price ratio quality is over the roof here ... Reading this :
I am afraid to invest near 1000 bucks in not so good dac... For his price i will die probably with the Starting point system NOS battery dac TDA 1543 which i could not really criticize in my low cost speakers and top of the world headphone AKG K340 ... I am 74 ...
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From my experience, the lowest cost high end DAC is the Schitt Yggi+. In my opinion, the very best one they have made was the Yggi+ OG. Unfortunately, they can no longer make it. The other 2 models they now have, the LIM and MIB are good but not as clean sounding as the OG (I own one). I owned the LIM but converted it to the MIB I mention this because in 2 weeks Schitt is supposed to be rolling out the best DAC they have ever made, the Byggi. Currently, there is only 1 review of it on SBAF web site. There will be 2 Byggi’s at the Los Angeles CanJam in 2 weeks. I am in the Schitt queue to convert my MIB to the Byggi. The OG competes with things like the Chord DAVE and Mola Mola Tambaqui. Cost ranges from $2200 to $3500. |
It is seems Christophe Mariac was the only one able to create a DAC in his basement of minimalistic design and maximal S.Q. with natural timbre ... Most people dont have systems value able to afford multi thousands US dollars dac...(my system value is 1000 bucks) It is comical or tragical.... Only pricier dac attract publicity as upgrade ... Mariac has stop selling his DAC on ebay ...
By the way what matter in a dac is "timbre" natural experience not more "details"; if you had natural timbre it is inevitable that you will have the necessary details,but the reverse is not true at all. All dac i tried seems to have more details and more clarity than the SPS but it is an illusion which dissipate when you do test listening in an optimized system/room or with top headphone ( a rare thing because most headphone has more "details" but no natural timbre either they sound "inside the head" compared to my AKG K340 which sound speaker-like) |
I currently have a Node N130 with the LHY LPS and a BlackIce Tube DAC and I’m very happy. The ICON and the N130 seem to have the same streamer specs. It appears the dual mono DACs are where the ICON should beat the N130, so I’m curious what your impressions of the ICON are using it’s internal DAC, and if you have tried any external DACs already that bested the ICON? THX |
Thanks for the feedback everyone - very useful. Leaning towards PS Audio. @jl35 - what is the replacement model for the Mk 2? Is it a Mk 3 or a completely different model? |
Tune in at 3:50. Basically, $700 Node X, everSolo A6 < Nano < Icon. What do you think the N130 ranks? If you think adding an LPS magically elevates the N130, then by the same logic you could add an LPS to the Nano or do a Teddy Pardo LPS mod on the Icon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ57f_AzKd0&t=631s Also, take a look at the review by Hans and TAS on Icon and the reviews on general Node streamers by iiwi. Lastly, pay more attention to reviews from trustworthy professionals and less to individuals here who have neither owned nor auditioned these Node streamers.
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@stephenwerner - Current PS Audio DAC is the PMG Signature 512 which is the replacement for their DirectStream Mk2, and early preorders just started shipping last week. |
Chord DACs are cold. The Qutest has a deep but narrow image and is on the analytic side. The DAVE is an older device with no filters, is colder than average DACs and is going to have an incredibly deep but relatively narrow image of the price point. The qutest image will basically be between the speakers, the DAVE will be wider but will lack the scale of similarly priced DACs. The Qutest is detailed for its price point. The DAVE is incredibly detailed. The PS Audio is warm and musical. It borders on the exact opposite of the Chord. The big criticism is that it has relatively soft bass. Detail is good (not DAVE good but few are) and there is a sweetness and musicality to it. But you will find that bass is not as tight and refined as it could be with other devices like the Chord. Bricasti is neutral and interesting middle ground while the Meitner MA3i would be an elevation above the PS Audio in almost every way. The Bricasti M1 S2 or even the M11 S2 would be really nice alternatives. They lack the detail of the DAVE but have incredible scale and don't have the issue with bass softness the PS Audio has. The MA3i is a superb DAC and although it has slightly softer bass than Playback or EMM, it is tighter and more refined than the PS Audio.
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Each time i read about a dac and the reviewer speak about "more details" i know now that this means especially for dac under 1000 bucks unnatural artificial timbre experience ... After 4 dac in trash bin i got the message... Most people had no idea what is a natural timbre experience... The marketers either, but everybody know what is "more details" ... A very biased person main arbiter of an audio site, sold to one American Brand, call that once "micro-plankton" and he love it... I prefer natural timbre ... Acoustics rules not the gear piece ...
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Stephen, you might get more detailed responses if you’re able to articulate what you want this new (to you) DAC to do for your system. Primary inputs, usability, etc. I’ve not owned a Chord DAC, but to me they look like an ergonomic nightmare, and not sure I would want to use one daily. Your priorities are of course different than mine. As others have stated, the Chords may be best suited to systems that require thining out.
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Over the past several years we have compared many high-end DAC's including the Dave, Terminators, Holo Audio, PS Audio Mk1 and Mk2. In stock form the PS Audio MK1 and MK2 did not have the resolution to keep up with the top dogs however with the proper audio transformers and power supply mods We all feel there is nothing out there that will touch the overall sound quality and realism of the modified MK1 and MK2 including the new PS Audio PMG DAC which is having a rough start with lots of issues. We thought the new PMG DAC was very tubby sounding and just did not have that same musical realness the older series has. The designer of the original two versions, Ted Smith was not involved in the new series and feel this has a lot to do with the inferior sound quality.
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I don’t have experience with the other two, but I preferred several cheaper “Chi-Fi” DACs to the Chord Qutest. These days I put my money into speakers and speaker drivers where it really counts. I chuckle when I see a guy investing $4K+ into a DAC when his speakers are equipped with $100/each drivers. It’s akin to putting 93 octane fuel into a minivan with all season tires.
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Yes... Your other gear needs to be up to par to even hear how much better top end DAC's can sound however worth every penny when you do and find a top end DAC that you like. One can purchase a fully modified and restored Directstream MK1 "Signature Series PLUS" DAC with a full year warranty for under $3400 shipped. You can also have the Directstream MK2 fully modified for less than $1500. Not bad for a top notch DAC of this caliber. I think the new PMG series DAC retails for $8500. |
I agree with JK. I see a lot of DAC purchases that are disproportionate to the other components in the chain. The rest of the system has to be able to show off any great source component or it's a waste. I also see a lot of lateral moves. With DACs if the difference isn't immediately noticeable and a marked improvement you are wasting your money. |
I’m a Chord fan for the quality, the value, and the sound though the Qutest and Hugo 2 i have certainly have a distinct signature sound. I do have to look up the manual every time i want to make an adjustment as the pretty, colored buttons are fully non-intuitive. Would love to try a Dave or add an M-scaler for fun but they come at steep premiums. Looking for a more musical fit to my DeVore O/96’s, my dealer recommended the Sugden Masterclass DAC and i couldn’t be more impressed. It simply gets out of the way. Not flashy, no DSD, just lovely musicality. |
Very well observed. It is why it is preposterous to speak about the best dac in general... The best dac for which System/room/ears synergy is the right question, and the best dac for the S.Q. /price ratio is the second right question...
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@jk_richards where is that on offer? |
Thank you, @jk_richards ! |
stephenwerner My experience is similar to some others regarding Chord DACs. I find them extremely detailed and able to pull nuances from music more than other DACs. That said, I find them thin, lifeless, and even sibilant. The first hour of listening to them was very nice, because of all the new detail they extracted; however after that the listening was no longer fun or enjoyable. My ears usually tilt towards R2R ladder DACs, especially Denafrips and Holo Audio. Here are some that I can recommend, of course cheaper used: Denafrips Terminator or Terminator Plus, Holo Audio May DAC KTE, T+A Dac 200, Weiss 204, Schitt Yggy, |
@stephenwerner curious what caused you to zero in on fpga DACs? |
You should give the Directstream DAC a listen. It's a DSD / FPGA based DAC. I liked the R2R DAC's also (Terminator PLUS and Holo May) until I heard the modified Directstream DAC's. It's if you can reach out and touch the performers it's so real sounding. Speakers totally disappear.. APSaudiotransformers is having a Blowout sale right now. |
