I do not believe "cable-off-carpet" makes any sonic change unless power lines are under the carpet.

I tried many times, and found nothing improved.

My speaker = Vienna Mahler (period).

@squared80

A lot of folks start out skeptical about differences in sound quality. Then they upgrade or swap something that should not matter and the difference is simply stunning. The uninformed “that can’t make a difference” goes out the window.

I noticed your system is not shown under your ID, and this is not your first post basically stating you know more than the rest of us and we are all delusional. It would be helpful to understand the systems you have owned, your experience level with high end sound quality and currently have and what experience you have with cable lifters.

It is possible in certain instances where electric lines are installed directly under the audio system cables where they can cause interference.  When working as a recording engineer I always had a RF problem in a certain church and attributed it to a close by radio station tower.  I mentioned it to the custodian of the space and he said that a main power line ran directly under where I typically placed my microphone cables.  I moved them about a foot away ---- and voila !!  No more problems !   If your listening room is on a slab it most likely wouldn't be the case.  

You know "psychological" can be a two way street.

Posts like this are incredible. Barrels of snake oil. You may as well run a coat hanger... it wouldn't sound any different than what you're doing now. This is all psychological.

What's Up With Risers?

@barts @clearthinker 

I am also so lucky to have a REF6 I bought used and upgraded to a REF6SE.  Paired with a REF150SE.  Would love a REF160S, but now thinking of waiting a generation.  Maybe they will make a KT170 amp?

Unfortunately, most normal rooms do not allow the use of risers, as some of the cable is run or hidden under furniture etc. Plus the wife factor. It's bad enough she does not appreciate the equipment as is, wants her living room back...

@bdp24 

Have you actually tried the Home Depot stand with your cables?

TY

@mc1969 -

                                 You're welcome.

                                 Happy listening!

@rodman99999 Thank you for the links, very interesting and enlightening.

@invalid -

There is a measurable difference of lower capacitance when cable risers are used

@mc1969 -

I am on a concrete engineered slab, no carpet under my cables, engineered hardwood

     Makes sense, given that all of our cables exhibit the properties of an RLC circuit, the 'C' being capacitance.

     Capacitance changes, according to the dielectric, it's Dielectric Constant, and the amount of dielectric used.

     The Dielectric Constant of air = 1.    Wood can vary from just over 1 to 4, depending on grain direction and (greatly) on moisture content.

     I seriously doubt that engineered hardwood contains/retains any moisture, hence: no more change than lifting a cable into the air.

     Most carpeting consists of materials with horrible Constants.

     When your cable's lying on a material with a high Dielectric Constant; that's being added to that of the cable's insulation, changing the 'C' in the RLC, over whatever length.

     https://www.electrical4u.com/rlc-circuit/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/dielectric-constant#:~:text=The%20dielectric%20constant%20ranges%20from,with%20moisture%20content%20and%20frequency.

$5.08 for a bag of 20 at Home Depot. Stretch a rubber band between the two "arms" for a close approximation of the Shuntaya Cable Elavator. 

Grip-Rite

2-1/4 in. Rebar High Chair (20-Piece)

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thanks barts, those look like the Shunyata ...

I am on a concrete engineered slab, no carpet under my cables, engineered hardwood. Made zero difference though I love they way my cheap ass Aliexpress lifters look and make swiffering the floor easy. 

@jl35 

No I don't.  But here is the vid  and it will start just prior to them going in the sound room.  It looks like they're using blocks under power cords(?!).

There are several of Fremer taking a tour.  This is the best I can do...........

https://youtu.be/hZWfULX9pC0?t=1505

Regards,

barts

Hi @barts , do you know what cable risers are used by ARC ?  Thanks

I think along the lines of malpai about static electricity ,

also 51514brad said the more you lift the cable off the floor the less capacitance was measured , I remember Maple Shade recommending cables be at least 8" of the floor .  

I don't think or can't hear a difference but since I got my Cardas blocks for less than 1/2 price delivered so I gave them a try ., tweeks don't always show their advantage all the time , maybe only on certain notes or sounds or maybe under only certain weather conditions . 

I have no dog in this fight.  But I do find it interesting that the gentleman who listens to every piece of ARC gear prior to it leaving the factory uses cable risers in the factory listening room.

Fremer has a video on YT which is a tour of the ARC factory and they discuss this.

And @clearthinker the ARC listening room uses a Ref6 as their reference (sort of apropos).  I too am fortunate to have a Ref6 in my system.

Regards,

barts

@docknow    Wow.  I have ARC Ref6 and CD8 as well as CLXs too.

But no cable risers.

Sounds great.

The last two times I relocated my system (since 2020, due to the pandemic), I was lazy and didn't bother with installing the cable risers I had for several months.  Both times (once on carpet and once on wood floors) I was bowled over by the magnitude of the improvement and chastised myself for being so stupid and waiting so long.  Sonically, before risers I was hearing the players in my room.  After risers, i was going to their room.  My system is pretty resolving, ARC and Martin-Logan CLXs.  I use a combination of two versions of SR risers and the Audioquest FogLifters to get different heights of my signal and power cables.  I count ~48 risers in my system right now.

Re: milpai (I have carpet in the listening room. During winters if I have to switch OFF the preamp and amp, I have to first touch the walls and then touch the equipment. Too much static with the carpet.) Back in the day when I was managing an audio-video facility we would kill the static by spritzing the carpet with fabric softener from a spray bottle. It killed the static and left the studio smelling springtime fresh.

@curtdr 

You didn't respond to the measurable difference. There is a measurable difference of lower capacitance when cable risers are used. I also don't convince myself that there is a positive difference just because I've spent money on something, in fact there have been times that I thought something way less expensive sounded better than the more expensive item.

One thing you might consider is rather than using cable risers,  suspend your speaker cables with string from the ceiling.  The advantage here is your speaker cables can be completely isolated from the power cords and other connectors because after leaving the amplifier terminals they go up, not down into the cord milieu.

The improvement many folks assume comes from the risers actually comes from getting the speaker cables away from the power cords and other connectors by lifting them off the ground.  However, with risers you are still in relatively close proximity to the other cords in your system.

This tweak costs you nothing. 

It can cost pennies to lift Cables from being directly in contact with anything.

I will take a wild guess and suggest my Lifted Speaker Cable method, took approx' 30 minutes to achieve, inclusive or searching for items I never search for, i.e Cotton Reel and  Drawing Pin.

I would say the cost incurred (Speaker Cable not Included) £00.03p.

That is the same type of cost I try and generate when buying used CD's at a Yard Sale.   

 @salectric 

"Maybe if I had spent $1500 on them I would have reacted differently"

You said it!  Brilliantly stated.  You clearly well understand the subversive nature of expectation bias.

@invalid  believe what you want, do whatever you want, however you want to spend your time and attention.  if you spend your money or time or attention or all three on "risers," then of course you will "hear" a "difference" or you'd have to admit you're wasting resources

@curtdr 

How is it a big scam if it cost nothing or next to nothing and there is an actual measurable difference?

Risers do not improve the sound.  No way, no how.  Big scam. 

I bought a set of cable risers from Music Direct, years ago.....still using them.  The visual impact is cool, the impact on sound improvement is zero. 

I used plastic "rebar chairs" from Home Depot supplemented with round sticker foam pads on the bottom, also from Home Depot.  I used bubble wrap in the chair seats. It is an inexpensive method to see if it makes a difference. I tried one side and then the other, and noticed some slight improvement.

I also did this for the subwoofer cables on my home theater system and noticed a more distinct difference.

Hope that is helpful.

For my Speaker Cables I use Cotton Thread to suspend them.

Does it improve them 'no comment' as I have not A/B compared them against the Coiled on the Floor option.

When I took the time to organise my Interconnect and Power Cables and neaten the way they are laid out, I recollect the Sonic having a perception that it was a little more transparent. The impression made was enough to keep me mindful of maintaining a Tidy Loom.

I use the AudioQuest Fog Lifters in my system. I have carpet in the listening room. During winters if I have to switch OFF the preamp and amp, I have to first touch the walls and then touch the equipment. Too much static with the carpet. I am not sure if this static affects the cables on the floor. But in my mind - it probably does and I do not have that nagging thought at the back of my mind. Besides it makes it easier to vacuum the room.

Cable lifters make it easier to swiffer around and under the cables!

"you hear a difference or you don't"....yes its that simple.Be confident that your percieved difference is nelegable enough for your ears to use them...you dont need validation here...setem and forgetem.

and since many of these risers are free, no need for the snake oil accusing  people to worry...you hear a difference or you don't...

I once saw a video where it was demonstrated that the more cable was lifted off the floor, the less capacitance was measured. I have yet to try them myself but I expect, if a difference is so easily measured, there's every likelihood (providing your system is sufficiently revealing) one might here a difference, whether an inprivement or degradation. Personally, like others here, if I decide to experiment it will be with scrap pieces of wood or other items I already have rather than spending a small fortune.

Think you mean Waterford crystal.

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/

On positive feedback there is an article on bunking cable lifters, they actually measured a difference in capacitance with cable lifters in place.

Impress your friends. Use Champaign goblets.  Glass is an even better and more consistent dielectric. Just don't admit they came from Ikea for $12 a 6-pack as of course, they can't sound as good as Waterloo crystal.  :) 

In reality, if you believe they sound better, it is your enjoyment that matters.  In the world where physics still rules, maybe if you were on a steel raised floor ( computer room) and ran hundreds of feet, with too-thin insulation, OK, maybe it does not violate any laws.    Full disclosure: I run 12 gauge twisted pair with pretty thick vinyl insulation. Only about 8 feet.  I have heard differences, but only in fancy cables screwing up. Shielded cables for instance have much higher capacitance and in a long run can, can, roll off the top end. Maybe.   Twisted Zip cord is near perfect for speaker cables. Funny, the original Monster cable was actually very good. 11 gauge, twisted, thick insulation. 

Yes, at RF frequencies, a lot matters. Speakers do not respond to RF. SWR in a speaker, ( fractional Ohms into several) also do not matter in AF.*  Do not fall for salesmanship that take valid physics from a different a domain and try to apply it to audio. 

There is a HUGE amount of money that can be spent that actually damages the sound less in speakers, amplifiers, DACs, and of course the room than thinking magic tweaks will help. I really want to hear an Aries II in my system to see if it is any smoother than the Atom+ as far as female vocal sibilance.  So far, no one has beat it. ( thanks Amazon returns) Clear, audible, repeatable differences. 

* I had an odd case. Amp had no RF filter in the output. No Zobel.  Long cables. A yahoo with a 1000W CB radio in his truck blew my tweeters as the RF was picked up by the cables, detected by the amp feedback and amplified. A set of Kimber cables made it sufficiently immune.  Then I solved the root of the problem when I identified the truck.  A strait pin can do wonders when pressed through a coax. So, defective amp design, illegal transmitter and a real problem.  Hack ( cable) mitigated until I fixed both root problems with a better amp and "fixed" his footwarmer. The good outcome was the Seas tweeters I used to replace the T-2000's were much nicer. 

Joe from Kubala Sosna says let them sit on the floor.  I agree with @jallan , depends on cable design.

There are some ridiculously expensive cable risers out there. I made my own from some scrap butcher block that I used for my shelving. It was a fun project and they look great. Do they make a difference? If they do it is very small but it did get my cables off the floor and easier to dust....!

I think it depends heavily on the construction and shielding in the cables. I couldn’t tell anything different with my AQ cables with DBS. But with tiny and thin Mapleshade cables with virtually no shielding by design, it makes sense to get them off the floor. 

In ground wire radials on antennas, raising the wire off the earth ground will actually change the characteristics of the antenna, ergo the wire.  What electrical change, I don't know and have never measured the actual wire.  I do know it affects SWR.

How that translates to speaker cable, I'm not sure but under certain conditions I wouldn't doubt it affects sound, especially in longer runs.

Supreme example of snake oil

When I owned relatively expensive (even used) Inakustik LS-2404 speaker cables, I occasionally heard some interference, and lifting them off the floor definitely helped. I doubt that the interference problem would afflict most cables designs, though, and I've never encountered a similar experience.

I tried elevators a couple times--just OK in SQ.  Krissy had me try using 100lb. fish line to suspend the cables about 1 ft. off the floor.  I had mono amps so I tried doing this on just the right channel first so I could hear if there was a significant difference.  The sound was better in all ways suspended rather than just sitting on the ground.  I have a suspended ceiling so hooking the cables to the grid was fairly easy.  I have a dedicated room so the look wasn't a problem to me.  If your speaker cables aren't too heavy you could use much lighter fish line for this.  One of the better tweaks I've done to the system and maybe the best for the money tweak ever.

Bob

@riie ,

You should definitely visit Burj Khalifa in Dubai 😄

I don’t play with elevators. I usually use the stairs.