There are lots of speakers that don't play ANY genre well, and there are lots of really good speakers that play many genres well. That's the disagreement with deep 333. He thinks that no speaker can play a wide variety of genre's well.
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Speakers can excel more at one genre than another because of different requirements in volume and bass. This becomes blindingly obvious when you take it to an extreme. Say a speaker needs to be able to do 120db at 20hz and can't cost more than 3k. Another speaker is fine being down 3db at 35hz and can't cost more than 5k. Does anybody really believe these aren't two different designs? The first one is going to have to have most of the money in bass drivers and big boxes. The second one will not. |
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook’s System
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riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook’s System What about your Triangle Comete 40th Anniversary for rock? |
@deep_333 Your trash talk really isn’t impressive and won’t earn you any respect here. Why don’t you just explain, in technical terms, why a really good speaker can’t sound really good on a wide variety of genres. That way we can deal with facts and come to a conclusion one way or the other and not have to read a lot of opinionated garbage. |
I never said anything like that (take a look). Of course different speakers sound different and so will instruments playing through them. When you create an argument where its not one I made but one you made, and then knock it down, that technique is known as a 'Strawman'; which is a logical fallacy, and is therefore false by definition. In case you wish to make credible arguments, its not a bad idea to know how fallacies like this work, so you can avoid them in your debate: What I did say is that what makes one speaker good at rock will make it good at other genres like jazz or classical or ethic folk. To that end it will have good resolution, the ability to play loud and decent bass. All forms of music have these requirements to sound right when reproduced.
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@deep_333 I have multiple sets of speakers and run a recording studio. My taste is from all forms of western classical, ethnic folk music, prog rock from the late 60s to now, electro/ambient from the 70s-2020s. I play keyboards in a space rock band right now, also string bass, flute, sitar and sarod although rusty on the latter two as my sitar is electric. My main speakers are the Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T-3.3. They are 98dB and flat to 20Hz. As a manufacturer in high end audio, I’ve long been exposed to the myth of speakers somehow being better at one genre than another. Anyone who understands the frequency range of musical instruments and how the ear perceives sound will know right away that a mechanical transducer cannot be made to favor a certain genre simply because all humans have the same range of hearing and design their instruments and music accordingly. So a speaker that is good at rock is also good at classical, electro, jazz and so on because the things that make that speaker good apply to all categories of music- such as resolution, the ability to play loud easily and the ability to play bass. Those attributes are common to a lot of different forms of music! |
I think Paradigm hit it out of the park with the Monitor SE speakers. I have the 3000f in my garage and they are just a really great sounding speaker and do really good things with rock music. Super punchy and clean clean clean. Basically got them free as I got 2 pairs for $375 total and sold 1 pair for the same. Otherwise they are way too good for the garage. I’m surprised what that smallish amount of money can buy these days in the speaker realm. The big 8000f goes for well under your budget and I bet you might be really surprised. |
LOL I think Atmosphere is a very talented amplifier designer. I don't know about his taste in speakers, although I'm sure he'd argue high efficiency for his tube designs and maybe otherwise for his new class d adventures? My free advice- I think we can agree that there are speakers that are forward and speakers that are laid back (generally) From there there are speakers that are forward and bright (highly detailed- think lots of room treatment careful cable selection etc.) I'd say a speaker that is forward but not bright- possible a synopsis of deep-33's thoughts about himself and atmosphere at a bar. |
@carlsbad2 , good point about Cerwins. I had AT-15s in the late 80s and listened mostly to 70s music on them. I then went to more of a "hifi" speaker with a Mirage M460 in 1991 which sounded great and were better hauling around from place to place in my 20s and 30s. But while I loved the better overall sound (but w/ less bass) of the Mirages, I still missed the Cerwins very much. When I replaced the Mirages in 2021 after 30 years, I made a mistake buying Spatial M3 speakers. While they did and do sound great, they didn't do hard rock very well. Honestly part of that was an under-treated room but they still didn't rock as hard as I wanted. They sounded phenomenal with "regular" rock like Fleetwood Mac, etc. but has soon as you have heavy and screaming electric guitars, I think the low crossover tweeter couldn't deal with that very well. FF to 6 months ago I now have what I consider the ultimate, hifi, 15" Cerwin-Vegas; Volti Rivals - and am thrilled with them. I know people will say this is thier last speaker but I'm very well convinced, the Rivals will be mine. As noted above I don't go through speakers very often anyway. |
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Again??? Spoken like a simpleton....over and over What’s your real story here dude? Did you blow all your cash on a single pair of speakers (’cost no object’ or something?) and you’re trying to convince yourself somehow that it is simply the best thing ever for every kind of music out there? Deep down, are you regretting blowing all your cash on 1 pair of speakers and trying to cope somehow? Or do you just have 3 audiophool records on repeat all day long? Yeah, one pair of speakers would work freaking brilliant for the 3 audiophool records on repeat, i suppose! Gearheads with 3 audiophool records on repeat!..(triple facepalm)...I sincerely hope you’re not one of them. On a different note, some of have us may have a very eclectic taste in music. We may listen to all kinds of genres/instruments from all over the world (instruments you may have never heard of in your life and so on). Some of us may play different instruments and we just know that certain types of speaker designs just don’t cut it/sound right for certain types of instruments. One pair of speakers just doesn’t cut it for everything, no matter if its ’cost no object’ or not! In any case...Good luck with your 1 pair of brilliant unicorn flippin speakers that worked brilliantly for everything (apparently)!!
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Again: The idea that a speaker is the best for a certain genre of music is one of the biggest myths in audio. Is 'classic' rock from the 50s, 60s, or 70s? Or, if one is a bit younger, does that mean 80s and some 90s? |
@robshaw , Assuming you are looking at something specific for "Classic Rock" or other rock genres (prog rock, indie rock, etc), it might be hard to beat the JBL HDI stuff in this price bracket. It is not just your typical loud rock speaker...it has pristine levels of detail and accuracy without feeling analytical (engulfs you instead). Buddy of mine has these speakers. It might be worth an audit. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_109HDI38WL/JBL-HDI-3800-Satin-Walnut.html I would be also be careful with the choice of dacs for this genre and wouldn't screw around with any ol' dac. The Schiit multibit dacs (Bifrost, Yggdrasil, etc) would be a great pairing with the detail+meatiness they offer. P.S. Diana Krall fans are going to give you suggestions on rock speakers soon enough (Don’t get bamboozled)...lol |
Very interesting stuff. I'm in a similar dilemma. Have a somewhat hi end system, with a SVS sub SB4000, Amp/ Pass X250.8 , large area 20x30" high ceiling R&R at high 80's low 90's digital only , very nice DAC and hi end CD transport, and streaming Qobuz . My budget is used or new around 10K, give or take. Currently listening through Tekton DI's upgraded and love them. My wife thinks I'm nuts for looking. She loves my DI's. I guess I'm looking for a hi end speaker that enjoys R&R. As I have a SUB that I really like that supports my bass dreams, integrated very well, currently. Just wondering if a speaker exists that has a GREAT MID RANGE and TREBLE to die for. Don't want JUST LOUD, want accuracy and detail to die for. Maybe I have it now and don't realize it. I need to get out more often. Spoke to ERIC at Tekton recently, as I really like my DI's.He suggested his MOAB speaker with a BE tweeter. We also spoke of his ENCORE speaker, which he loves , but stated it is more at home with Classical,etc. He mentioned that he is working on a ENCORE with different, faster woofers, and different crossover. That really interests me. Looking for the best of both worlds, accuracy, hi end R&R. Does it exist!!!! Robert TN |
I’ve been upgrading my system for several years now and each pair I bring home excells at something. That said, I do think some speakers are natural matches for specific music genres. This is self promoting but still true, I have a pair of speakers for sale online that had me spinning all my old rock cd’s with each one better than the last, Black Sabbath, Ted nugent, VH, UFO, the list goes on. Vienna Acoustics Strauss fed by my Hegel h360 was amazing, The same drivers as the Mahler but a single 11” woofer! and I always said va’s didn’t rock. I was having so much fun with the older stuff that I didn’t dig out any hi Rez stuff for several days and that’s when I figured out why they were so complimentary to the old stuff. A pretty gentle tweeter that isn’t going to compete with the be’s or dmd tweeters making the headlines. I think about keeping them just for Friday night sessions but it’s not practical. |
Peaks in classical music can be as loud as a rock concert. Whether you can hear that in a recording or not is a different matter- that depends on if any compression is done in the recording. You need good bass response to do classical right- there can be a lot of wallop in a 6' diameter bass drum! Don't forget electronia in all its guises from the 70s until now. One of Vangelis's best LPs is the 1492 Soundtrack- nice bass on that one. Mike Oldfield did a nice recording about the same time called Songs of Distant Earth, both were available on import vinyl in the early 90s. Why limit yourself to classic rock?? |
I prefer to not listen to "classic rock" as it simply reminds me of songs I covered in club bands for years (although my later bands employed "veto powers" from members so nobody had to play something they hated) ...Steely Dan and Little Feat and a few others get a pass, but Jazz and classical stuff get most of my active listening these days. Note that my 12wpc power amp barely works up a sweat with 99db (Heresy IIIs aided with 2 RELs) speakers, and another nice thing is knowing those speakers are capable of dangerous levels so they're simply purring along with the dynamic capability evident in their effortlessness. |
Ive had MANY JBL's and I can tell you DONT get the L100's for 70's/80's Classic Rock. I would also NEVER suggest HARBETH because they are far too polite for this Genre. My favorite JBL's is actually a Combo that I use together...The L166 for the High's and the 4312A Monitors for their amazing midrange. Both lack what the other has in spades but combined they are sublime. If you need any work done on vintage speakers I would highly recommend MILLERSOUND in Pennsylvania. Bill does an incredible job and his prices are very reasonable. He installed NOS Tweeters on my JBL's, Refoamed the Woofers and they are basically brand spanking new. |
Best ever for rock, and you don’t need a $$$$$ amp, even a 20w tube drives them. A really mint pair of Yamaha NS1000 1000M 1000X or their new successor the NS5000 if you got the cash Cheers George |
I listen to predominantly classic rock - Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, etc. I also listen to jazz. Last year I got a pair of Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers paired with a Cronus Magnum II tube amp, and it’s a great sounding combo for the rock and the jazz. I listen to mostly vinyl with this setup, haven’t picked up a DAC to venture into digital audio besides my Chrome Cast Audio. This is well below your budget but thought I’d chime in. Good luck! |
Cerwin Vega lol. They are heretics to the snobby hifi world but my first love. I have Klipsch KLF and Classe amps. Harder to evolve my selection far from here though (unless otherwise educated). Curious about B&W 801, 802, and 808’s and some Tannoy and ATC drivers. Not a fan of the multiple small driver, big drivers that efficiently operate have a presence that is hard to deny, big or small. Curious to hear about hat is a solid progression for these types of tastes? |
I highly recommend to go to places like Magnolia inside the Best Buy and listen for yourself. Burn your favorite songs (I did 30-60 secs clips for 12 songs) and listen for yourself songs that you like to listen to. The more expensive speakers recommended by many others were not for me after listening songs I would like to listened to in the listening room. It's very subjective. Only you can tell. |
I had EPI 120s when I was a kid. Those things can rock! I am not an expert on the range available at that price level today, but for $2500 you can either get a pair of new in box ELAC UniFi UF-5 Towers, which I did own at one time. Excellent speakers for the money. Take the change and invest it back into your system. Another idea is to buy a pair of Magnepan .7i or 1.7i speakers. Depending on which you get you may have enough left over for a subwoofer. The Magnepans have an unbeatable soundstage for the money. I have the 1.7i pair and love them. Taking delivery of a pair of Magico A3 at the end of the month (I hope) and the battle will begin!! |
