Hi all, I'm looking to get some feedback on great value/sound used speakers for a 14x11.5' room in an apartment. Are there any suggestions from audiosciencereview or your own experience that mate great sound with excellent value on the used market? I recently found a pair of Salk speakers at a good price, but their frequency response is the only measurement graph I can find. Plus, I wonder if a large part of that speaker price is due to the cost of the cabinet and its elaborate finish. I'm looking to put my money towards the music more than the cabinet jewelry finishes. (I'm on a budget <$2k). Thanks for any recommendations
I am gonna toot my own horn and say Closer Acoustics OGY. The ASR community will vomit in their mouths hearing this because single driver speakers = poop (in their dogma). But hear me out:
- In a flat room configuration and speaker placement is usually compromised. You can't beat the off-axis response of a single driver.
- You can't beat the midrange clarity and bass speed of single driver speakers with transmission lines. There are so many speakers around 1000€ which measure well, have good reviews but you struggle to hear dialog during movies and everything sounds warm & chesty. I am referring to Dynaudio specifically.
- Single driver speakers are so easy to drive. Even the worst 10W class D chip amp can drive them.
- Even the $5k MoFi speakers aren't built as well. The cabinet on the OGY is a laser-cut plywood sandwich. You can pay extra for a corian finish. It's way sturdier than veneer. They build kitchen countertops with that stuff. The driver is hand-built in France with a field-coil. So it's ridiculously fast.
Other speakers I liked:
- KEF LS50 Meta active (I am sure the passive model rocks too).
- Q Acoustics 3020. Don't let the rock-bottom price fool you! I could happily live with these. The bass is a bit loose. But the midrange clarity can almost compete with my OGY.
I don't like:
- Dynaudio Xeo 10. Sounds chesty and muffled. But the bass is nice. At a 1000€ you're better off saving money and getting a Denon RCD N11 + Q Acoustics 3020 + speaker stands and have spare change.
I agree with @jlr261about the ranges of responses. Additionally, loads of suggestions that blow past your budget of <$2,000.
As to getting a good bang for your buck, a lot of that is going to be luck. I don't know anything about Salk speakers but I've seen a number of people say they're good but I've also seen a number of used Salk speakers up for resale. That may or may not mean anything. In any situation, it is always best to see if you can hear the speaker first. One thing about the audio community is that we are a lonely bunch (with respect to our hobby) and if someone wants to hear our stuff, we come alive. You probably can find some site with Salk owners and see if someone is near you.
The other thing is that your room is pretty small so some of the suggestions might be big speakers which will absolutely dominate the room especially if they have to be pushed out from the wall to get the best sound. I don't know if you live alone or have someone else who has to ok this but that is a factor. If you are listening in a near field position, that is also a factor because some speakers do better in that situation.
I would suggest some bookshelf speakers that can be near the wall because you can probably get some very nice speakers with stands and a sub for your $2k.
I went to an audio show last year and heard the KEF R3s and the Buchardt S400s. Buchardt also has a speaker which is the P300s which Steve Huff liked a lot.
I also heard the Philharmonic BMR which the crowd voted as the best although I liked the KEF R3 and the Buchardt S400 better. I also liked the Totem Sky speakers which have been replaced I think with the Totem Bison.
Someone else mentioned the KEF LS50 meta and the KC62 as a killer combo and it probably is. You can easily find the LS50 meta used for about $1k or less. The sub is a little bit harder to find for that price since it is a newer product but probably could get it for about the same price. The JBLs I don't know other than seeing it at the show and not being that impressed.
But that's another key. I listen to music critically and there are speakers that just sound like a party which doesn't really rock my boat but it does for others. An example, IMHO, is the Triangle Bro 3s. But those are inexpensive and can sound fun and you can buy them new from Amazon and return them if you don't like them.
So the bottom line is to find a type of speaker you like and then either follow that speaker (looking used maybe?) or speakers that are like those speakers. I found my endgame bookshelf speakers in that way, Nola Boxer S3s which I was lucky enough to find almost new on the cheap from the Canuck Audio Mart.
maybe a used KEF R700 or KEF R900. I demoed the R700 vs the KEF LS50 and they sounded the simular except the R700 was fuller in the base. Sounded great.
The Teckton Pendragon's with the 7 tweeter array and 2- 10's for $ 2500 is a freakin'Great sounding speaker...better than KLH model 5 and even my Klipsch Heresy IV's
First of all, please be aware that you will receive as many different responses as there are combinations of gear that work, or not, for each and every member of this group of aficionados!
The first best advice is to try as much as possible to test whatever equipment you have access to in YOUR setting/room, with YOUR associated gear (electronics, music, etc.).
Of course, that is never easy, especially if you are looking mostly at used gear, to be as cost efficient as possible (as I am, BTW...).
Secondly, to elicit the best possible advice/guidance, please provide as much information as possible for our members to understand your specific circumstances and needs/wants:
1. Current setup: what do you like about it, what you don't like, what you eventually wish to improve, etc. Don't be shy, provide us with a detailed listing of your existing equipment.
2. Clearly state what you are looking for in your setup: aiming at critical listening at low-medium volume, or a party setup for casual listening and the occasional dance party/rock out session? You might be looking for a combination of both...
3. What type of music do you listen to mostly? at what volume? Do you have a taste for heavy bass, silky mids, sparkling highs, etc?
The thing about this hobby, like most things in life, is that there are a thousand ways to reach your objectives, and you'll probably end up trying several different setups before settling in with one that constitutes a happy medium for YOU.
I'd start with learning about speakers being available at and around your budget point, which by the way, is already quite good.
$2K will give your access to a very large variety of speakers, especially if you are willing to go the used route as well.
I'm really curious though, to best orient you for now, I'd like to know what electronics you have on hand, your music tastes, and your listening style/habits.
With this basic first information, many of us here will be in a better position to make suggestions, share experiences, providing you with the most useful input possible.
For example, I could talk to you about one of my favorite current setups, which also happens to be one of the most affordable: Magnepan LRS + REL T5/x subs + Rogue Audio Sphinx v3 integrated amp + Anticables. The total cost for that setup was less than $4K and it sounds DIVINE!
Not the loudest, but setup correctly, with appropriate care to room acoustics as well... I really don't NEED to buy anything else! But I still do... that's a whole other story about this hobby!!
In any case, I hope the above will be useful to you in your search for good sounds, and look forward to reading more from you as you move forward in your quest. Have a great weekend!
Vandersteens are second to none as far as not 'wasting' money on fancy veneers etc. All the value goes into the speakers and crossovers and you get socks instead or nice polished wood veneer.
I've owned a set of 4As for over 20 years and still like them so much that they have remained a part of my third system rather than being sold on to another hobbyist.
In an apartment you'll probably want a speaker that can be backed against the wall. Typically that would require a speaker that is either in a sealed enclosure or if it has a port the port is on the front of the speaker. The Wharfedale Linton 85 has two ports on the back of the speaker. Consider the KLH Model 5
I have no idea if the Salk songtower or veracity ht2 would walk all over the Arendal 1723 speakers, but those 1723 seem to be on the current speaker "hype train" , and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious about which choice would be better. (Largely due to the fact that I've heard neither and I have absolutely no clue because of so many available options)
I don't want vintage, the croton tdx are definitely bargains, but I would not be inclined to build them myself. The bang for the buck I was thinking of was great sounding speakers that sell for irresistible prices on the second hand market. As someone already pointed out, sometimes those great speakers are hard to find on the second hand market because people tend to keep them. I like the idea of getting a Salk veracity ht2 vs the songtower (both are great I'm sure, but the ht2 is probably better but bigger.). I do wonder if for a small space (15'x11') if the cabinet space of transmission line design takes up more cost and space than cheaper and simpler port designs.
If bang for your buck is the main consideration, some sort of DIY kit speaker can offer an amazing value by using the same drivers that are found in expensive speakers ($25,000+).
There are some very good suggestions here, but I'd like to weigh in with my own: Ryan R610. I've owned a pair for several years now and have not really been tempted to upgrade. On the used market they sell for way under $2K (they're about that new), but the problem is that they almost never come up on the used market. That's how good they are. Of course, as with any speaker, the electronics driving them are a factor, as are the cables (and in this case, the jumpers unless you bi-amp them) but for musical, balanced, non-fatiguing sound, very few speakers in this price range can beat them.
Re: placement page 3 in the manual states you move them closer to the wall to increase bass but doesn’t give a minimum distance for back walls, only side walls (20 inches for side walls).
In my experience if you find that you have too much bass you can either:
The matching sub is marked down from $599 to $179 and JBL makes excellent subs, I own the JBL 10 inch for the Studio 2 series. At this price you might want to get a pair.
The 580 don’t reach too low in the bass and should be fine just a 1’ or 2 off the wall. They are a good balanced speaker and really special for the money. I would want to run subs with them. This cheap JBL subs kind of suck but they are super cheap lol.
the only think with the 580s is the center is total junk and way too small. If you are going to use a AT screen I would buy 3 580s.
the new line is the 6 series and looks much nicer and has a much better center.
@kota1thanks for the info! I saw the 30 day home trial, but assumed I'd be on the hook for return shipping if I didn't keep them. Shipping those heavy beasts would likely be expensive.
Do you know how close I can run the 580's to the wall (unfortunately the port is on the back and not the front)? We are planning a dedicated theater room in our renovation, and I'd like to keep the speakers flat against the wall, so I can run an acoustically transparent screen in front of them without using a bunch of room depth. The JBL's might be perfect for this application.
I have a pair of PMC Fb1i Signatures listed (on the free site) that are perfect for that size room. PMC’s use transmission lines so they have superior bass for their size, and are used in many major recording studios. Only downside is the high price when new.
Get the 580's and the matching sub that is on sale too (at $179 for the sub you can get a pair if you want) look at the return policy, they pay shipping both ways, no risk:
Return Policy
You may return any item you purchased on JBL.com, within 30 calendar days of your package being delivered, subject to the terms & exceptions below.
We will gladly exchange your product for the same model (subject to availability) or give you a refund for the full amount of the merchandise including taxes. We will provide a free pre-paid label to return your order. Gift wrap and shipping charges are not refundable.
Damn! I didn’t know that add on bass module existed! I likely would have kept them and tried out the bass module had I known. I prefer a 3 way for more dynamic music.
I just sold my CSS Criton 1TDX. They are a very nice speaker and definitely lean to the warm side but are still detailed enough and are dynamic. Remind me a lot of higher end Dynaudios. Also they like power.
I’m in a similar situation to @labguy, and have been looking for a pair of speakers in the $2000 or less range. The JBL 580/590 has been on my list, but I am having a hard time hitting the buy button. I read tons of great reviews, but I wonder if they sound great because of the cost, or if they sound great period. My room is small at 12’x12’, but I’ll be moving to a larger room (12’x18’) in the next year or so, after a home renovation. I’ve read comments about the 590’s overpowering small rooms, but no mention of what a small room is. Also on my short list is the Sonus Faber Lumina 5’s. I heard these at a hifi shop and was pretty impressed, but it wasn’t in my room with my equipment, and the dealer is 3 hours away, so in home demo’s aren’t really an option. My last strong consideration is a kit speaker from CSS audio, the TD1X with the 3 way bass module add on. I’ve read glowing review after glowing review, and it sounds like these lean to the warm side of presentation, which I strongly prefer. With cross over upgrades, flat pack cabinets, and the bass modules, these come in under $2000, allowing money for veneers and finishing. My gut tells me I’m getting the most speaker for the money on the CSS kit, because I’m adding my labor for assembly and finish work, and there’s no distributer/dealer mark up, which is likely the bulk of the cost of a $2000 speaker.
In a small room a KEF LS50 Meta + a KEF KC62 sub is a killer combo. I loved this combo for the past year+. I sold the sub recently and looking to sell the LS50 Meta because my new amp does not play nice with subs. I will be getting the KEF Reference 1 meta for the same small room (no sub needed).
I am listening to the LS50 Meta right now with a CODA #16 amp and the amount of bass is the most I have ever heard (without a sub). The rush to upgrade on this sound is not that great, but I will eventually. The CODA #16 plays fine with subs, it is another amp that I am working to play nice in this room.
Only caveat is that you need power for the LS5 Meta to get the best out of them like I am. Though high quality power is not that expensive.
I like your idea of the KEF R3s. If the KEF sound is to your taste they are less picky about placement than many other brands. This is helpful in a smaller room where there are limited placement options. Down the road you will want to upgrade the sub.
As others have mentioned, what ever gear you have it will only sound as good as the room allows. Room treatments are the biggest no brainer out there! Cheers
i would add to @tomcarr’s comment on vandy's that they also like fairly serious power and damping factor (usually means substantial solid state amp) to get the excellent bass response they are designed to deliver
+1 for Vandersteens. Have owned 3 pairs since the 80s. They are a great all-around speaker, but you need to be sure your seated ear height is at or lower than tweeter level. They are very picky about that. Stand up and you lose most of the treble energy. Stay seated, at the correct height, and they will reward you with very good, non-fatiguing, well-balanced sound.
“Solid state front end. May upgrade to a better integrated but plan to stay solid state.”
Are you using a home theater reciever, vintage integrated, etc. What is it you have exactly. Home theater Receiever on an efficient speaker may sound ok but is gonna fall flat on something like the Salk’s that you mentioned.
Used Tektons or some new Tektons for that price is a good choice and can play nice with most electronics. The JBL 580 mentioned above I think is a good suggestion also. I’m sure the Salk’s are great as well but prepared to be underwhelmed if you don’t have a pretty descent front end.
A small pair of Ohm towers would likely tick off all your boxes. Plenty available used here and on popular auction sites. New ones are a good value too. I have owned my 2000s since 2009 with never any regrets. In your room, the MicroWalsh Tall would probably be a good fit. Check the Ohm Speakers web site for more info. (Other than being a customer and fanboy, I have no affiliation with Ohm.)
All those speakers mentioned are fine. But truly best bang for the buck is JBL. The JBL 580 is a $1600 speaker on sale for $600. Free shipping free return 60 day trial. They are great speakes and play well out of their price range. They don’t go real deep but probably a good think in an apartment.
Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5's. Don't let the small size fool you, they are giant killers, and can be had for a good price used. All stainless steel and aluminum.....gorgeous speakers!
@james633I had Kef r3 , buchardt s400 mkii se, and Arendal on my radar too. So many to pick from. Heard some monitor audio gold I liked but they are out of budget. It's going to be impossible to listen to all the options that interest me, and my current setup seems to exceed its price point of being so affordable. I'm pretty sure I'll need to triple my spend to noticeably know it's worth the improvement. I like the sound I have now. I just know it can be better. Having apartment neighbors necessitating lower than my desired volume level is a buzz kill too by the way.
With speakers in particular, it's best to hear them yourself, with your amplification or perhaps what you hope to get! There are so many good speakers in your price range, and they all sound different.
Some bigger makers, like KEF, have several lines with different goals in terms of quality & looks. You might prefer smaller stand mounts in an apartment. The small Q series speakers are in the $600-800/pair range, with the towers more like $1500-2200.
@labguyit’s called being in debt up to your eye balls lol...kidding aside (not really), I am too lazy to remove the Tannoys right now, I'll get around to it at some point when I have the inclination or if I'm bored.
ASR is a good source and a lot can be learned from understanding measurements but not all that is important is measured. How do you measure bass texture and detail? How do you say which kids are more natural if they are both flat because there is a big difference. I think good measurements are just the start of being able to play ball. Now they need to bring all the other stuff too.
I own the JBL 4367 and Revel 228be both of which have been measured on a Klippel and posted to ASR. Both are flat on axis and have even drop off as they widen but they could not sound more different. The JBL is so much more dynamic and detailed top to bottom. There is almost no comparison to be made and that is in the same room/system on a popper amp.
For you speaker question I would maybe try JBL 580s. They will be way under you price when on sale. JBL sells them direct at 50% off a lot of times and they have a 60 day trial period. They measure very well and perform above their price range. They lack some detail and dynamics in absolute terms.
i have not heard it personally but arendal speakers are getting good reviews and are “lower” cost they might have something in your price range
I have never owned a Salk so I can’t give you an answer on that. I have owned Vandersteens (2c and 3A ) and I recommended that model since you have a small space and a two thousand dollar budget!
A brand new pair of JBL 4309’s are 2k....I bought them for the heck of it in Walnut w/ Blue grills. They still sit idle in sealed boxes. Maybe I’ll get around to listening to them.... some day.
@yogiboydo you think those Vandersteens will outperform a Salk veracity ht2?? I've heard a vandersteen before and was impressed but I don't remember the model. i can het a desl on a salk songtower or veracity, but I'm not sure that they'll do great with all genres of music and fit my small apartment space, and I listen to just about everything.
At times I try to read what they have to say about a product and each time I feel like the oldest person on the site is under 20. Meaning they got the world figured out by numbers but in no way have yet to experience any of it in real life. I'm done with that scholar view of audio. It has nothing to do with our ears and the environment we use to listen to music. A lot of talk to say nothing imo.
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