Anybody having trouble getting near-your-asking-price for used gear ? (Plz. no hype)

50% off of new gear within a couple years speaks to how overpriced this stuff is. $50,000 set of speakers going for $25,000 is ridiculous after two years.

Manufactures creating very nice gear need to find a better way to sell gear to end consumers.

Don’t hear the gear anyway because they don’t have it in dealer listening rooms and I feel bad for dealers because they got to buy all the gear upfront.

then it gets Drop shipped from the manufacturer.

Further it’s a pain in the ass selling gear so I just keep it and accumulate it like everyone else probably does.

People who have the means buying higher end stuff don’t mind paying $15,000 more. This causes higher end gear to be more expensive because of the willingness of buyers to pay the price.

Profit margin for new speakers is usually much higher than electronics.

$25k for two year old $50k speakers sounds reasonable to me. If they are great speakers.

@devinplombier  - 

I agree - just listed a Sansui G-8700db and a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls at reasonable prices for my location (SLC, Utah) not ridiculous prices based on inflated eBay listings that haven't sold in a year+....

and both items sold for full asking price within 5 days...  :- ) 

I'm seeing the same thing as the OP. I used to be able to buy something used, play with it for a year, then sell it for about 10% less than I paid for it. So I'd be out the shipping cost and a couple hundred dollars, which was a reasonable price to pay for having a nice component for a year.

Now I'm dropping used stuff 25% from what I paid for it a year or so ago and it still isn't moving. 
Shipping costs are a big factor. Uncertain economic times another. A glut in the used marketplaces another. And TMR...

50% off of new gear within a couple years speaks to how overpriced this stuff is. $50,000 set of speakers going for $25,000 is ridiculous after two years.

Realistically, your $50k retail speakers are worth $25k the minute the delivery guys pack up and leave. By the time you’re in the mood to sell them, you’re looking at maybe $12k.

Not many used floorstanders transact anywhere near 50% of their retail value. Maybe Revel Salon 2s and a few others.

Stuff with a msrp of 10k or under, more buyers...even 60 to 70 % of msrp can probably be considered a good deal for the used goods shopper. (frankly, there’s not enough of a margin built-in on many items)

Stuff with a msrp of 50k or above (enormous margins built in), less buyers, buyers market, low ball all you want....

Audiophiles who fell for scam pricing (to begin with) are in for a rude awakening on the resale market. In the latter case, you better be sure you wanna hang on to something for a long time....or better be prepared to take the L when you wanna be in that ’elusive’ club.

I would think those that can afford 50k, 70k or greater gear aren't very concerned about what they might get when the time comes to sell. Do you think the guy who trades in his 1 yr old Porsche every year cares he lost 30 - 50k? These guys play in a different sandbox then us mortals. 

It’s supply and demand coupled with basically zero barrier to entry when it comes time to sell something.

Look at how many new brands and new products from existing companies come out each year. I’m amazed sometimes at the sheer number of new items. It’s like anything else these days—it’s easier to design, build and distribute than ever before. And there are some really fantastic new players in the market.

Then look at how easy it is to sell something on multiple marketplaces. There is just so much used gear out there that keeps piling up. I think if you can get 50% of what you paid, you’re doing alright. 

Oh, you'll be surprised...there are enough dudes who take out loans or whatever to buy things....he justifies it as financing a truck, a raptor or whatever else.

I've even refused to sell something to a dude or two in the past when i figured out how he's coming up with the money, took me longer to find another fat cat instead.  I understand there are a bunch of addicts around, but, i actually have a conscience (facepalm). 

I would think those that can afford 50k, 70k or greater gear aren't very concerned about what they might get when the time comes to sell. Do you think the guy who trades in his 1 yr old Porsche every year cares he lost 30 - 50k? These guys play in a different sandbox then us mortals. 

One thing I have never understood is how audiophiles have always seemed unusually indifferent to cost of buying and depreciation that factors into selling esoteric expensive items often purchased on a whim as a result of effective marketing at worst and often incomplete information at best. Maybe this is just the inevitable encounter with reality that has always seemed somewhat lacking.

I know I am not wealthy enough to not care about taking a huge loss on a risky purchase. If I am shelling out a lot of money I want to minimize the risks. I’ve been relatively lucky in this regard over the years (but far from totally immune) and buy new or used from reputable USA sources only these days.  The closer to home, the better.

It's just me, but I am open-minded to consider buying gently-used electronic devices on the used market for items that are currently available as new, but not so for speakers (and sub woofers), as I've found it's hard to determine if they've been abused (unless the tweeters are blown).  Certainly a seller of used audio equipment must realize that the absence of a manufacturer's warranty has significant value.  I have a relative who seems to trade cars every year, but in his case, he not only takes a beating on the depreciations, but also is on the hook for the state sales tax!

During some exploratory years, I sold/rotated more 'higher end' items to dudes outside of core audiophilia...business guys, padded musicians, etc, who know nothing about the nerdy side of gear...depends on how connected you are, i suppose (how much risk u could take..or if you are a fatter cat who just don't feel like wasting cash). 

If some gear blew the pants off the unsuspecting layman, he'll drop the cash if he can afford it. For example, there are so many bored rich dudes who'll spend hundreds of thousands on a home reno for no good reason...because he got bored. Tell him his stupid house didn't need a reno, it needed a good sound system instead.

I know I am not wealthy enough to not care about taking a huge loss on a risky purchase. If I am shelling out a lot of money I want to minimize the risks. I’ve been relatively lucky in this regard over the years (but far from totally immune) and buy new or used from reputable USA sources only these days. The closer to home, the better.

Break out Ocaams Razor, stare in the mirror and shave that beard of rationalization off.  Aside from politics having little place here IMO the Dow and such always goes up.  Always a winning side up top.

To quote Warren Buffet "Price is what you pay, value is what you get."  There is simply a lack people interested in your gear, no matter how dear to you.  The SF Bay CL is loaded with unreal bargains and HI FI Shark should have an alcohol interlock ;)

Please also consider relative budgets and goals.  I recently picked up a pair of VS VR4 Gen 2 (DAMN GOOD) for 1000 delivered.   What made my existing  amp sound better:  Those speakers on NAW (normal a$$ wire lol about$) or a pair of 1000 cables laying on the floor?

As always does your system make you smile?  Happy Listening

At the moment Buffet isn’t long on equities…  

…but wow..what dangerous fun it is surfing the SF Craigs L…. good lord…

These are very uncertain times for most people. Multiple industry layoffs, stock market is volatile, impact of tariffs uncertain. For most people, luxury items aren’t a high priority right now. I do understand many of you are comfortable retirees and can buy sell these for pleasure but significant part of the demographic aren’t going to do that in current economic conditions.

Ya, I always come here for financial guidance, political insight and the latest medical breakthroughs. Such a diverse demographic, how could I not?

Dollar is down, stocks are down, inflation is up. It is going to be fun. Buy whatever you were thinking of buying now.

You can watch eBay auctions to get a true idea of value.  High end equipment (over £10k items new) tend to sell for 20%-40% of retail in Europe, depending on age.   But over here cars depreciate by 60%+ over three years and the luxury cars depreciate higher still. It does not seem to be any worse than it ever was though. It had always been a thing to expect 50% depreciation as soon as you buy a high-end piece of kit in all spheres of electronics. 

He blamed it on the political environment

That's such a vague statement.  It seems much more likely that prices are simply too high.

I assume any sort of consumer goods lose at least 50% of their assumed value once you take it home and use it.   No doubt there are minor exceptions to this rule, but used stereo gear isn't an investment and it will drop significantly in price the instant you put it in you listening room.

For me, audio is a hobby, a means to escape the day's stress, As so, I know that when I make a purchase for this hobby that it is not an investment. An investment is something you do with expectations of making a positive return on. At least for me, audio is not that. Now, in today's geopolitical/economic environment, we are in a buyers market. Cash is king. This bodes well for me as in the next week or so I will be upgrading the digital side of my system. It will most likely be second hand gear and the sites are flush with great offerings. I learned a long time ago, there are times to buy and times to sell. You need to surf the right wave.

the silver lining I see, being a "data guy" is the market is telling us what make and models are really holding up and worth their price in every aspect.

People are missing the obvious cause (besides unrealistic seller expectations).  Young people aren't interested in HiFi.  They listen on headphones.   And you can get a decent experience listening experience with your iPhone/Android and a nice set of Bose wireless earphones.   They already have the phone, so they spend $300 for a nice set of earbuds and they're done.   They have spotify and they're set. 

The community of people willing to spend thousands for really good sound is diminishing every day. 

@tomrk I have been to a lot of college student apartments in the last 4 years due to my son's being in College. They ALL had way more than headphones. 

ALL had 2 channel speakers. About half of them active.

Some had all in one music systems, streamers, many had receivers and a few amplifiers, DACs and about a 4th of them had turntables!!!! 

btw it's incredible that we no longer can state facts even on this forum because it will be labeled political and will hurt people's feelings. Even if we say "price of x audio gear will increase due to tariffs." - the thread will be deleted. 
We are in a truly dark age similar to what my parents grew up in during the 50s in the darkest phase of Communism when you had to call a monster a beauty pageant.

While the old trope about the hobby dying is getting tedious, there is no doubt that it is changing, and so it should.

I’m a big fan of big floorstanders but let’s face it, they have a lot in common with dinosaurs at this point.

Of course, it's big floorstanders. What else can realistically reproduce what was recorded? They are not dinosaurs, dinosaurs are those people who don't understand it.

We are in a truly dark age similar to what my parents grew up in during the 50s in the darkest phase of Communism when you had to call a monster a beauty pageant.

@grislybutter 

Well... today we call beauty pageants monsters, so, same words, different order 😂

Seriously, the negative reactions to tariff posts may owe more to boredom and weariness than anything else.

We are in a truly dark age similar to what my parents grew up in during the 50s in the darkest phase of Communism when you had to call a monster a beauty pageant.

The horse s**t you and others continue to post on this audio forum stinks up thread after thread. It would be great if you would just go away.

charliee, what would you call your own post ?

Hey Ohm Walsh prices are highest ever and in scarce supply. So it’s not the end of the world. At least not yet. Pays to have a truly unique and somewhat affordable product that people value, I would assert.    Not as affordable as used to be the case by a long shot though.

Pretty sure when people talk about making America great again its the 1950’s they are referring to except maybe reverse the rhetoric when it comes to Russia and any old USSR aspirations to be great again there.

AH the good old days of ducking under desks for air raid drills, measles, etc.....

Hey I was a naive kid then which (in hindsight) was pretty great  and guess what:   here I still am except a crankier old guy still yapping about hifis.....whoda thunk it?

@charliee totally. I understand that's how you feel. Under today's rules you can't make someone go away (free speech and stuff) so you need to change the rules. 

Brand name cabling is still a pretty easy sell at 50% of new. I sold a bunch of tweaks …footers and vibration stuff at 50% in a few days.  Loudspeakers seem to be the toughest. Couldnt get 40% for mint condition still current model Personas. Ended up trading them in at Next Level Hi Fi and the sold them for 2500 more that I was asking for 5 mos on the other selling site. They offer financing which a private seller cannot. Big difference with high ticket items. 

I find there are always low ballers who just dwell in the 'how low can I get something' world.  Even with fair counter offers they seldom agree. But with patience and fair pricing things eventually sell.  I find it best to just not respond to the low ballers.

With used gear in an environment where new gear are having to have substantial markdowns for sales people notice.  If velocity of used sales and prices have a downward trend, unless someone finds their dream piece and jumps on it, time will go by with perhaps other like equipment listed competing with your ad. People will notice that too.

So, if I see something that intrigues me enough to make an offer, I may offer a lower price, one which I feel is lower than what I would pay but I want to feel out the seller to see how much wiggle room they have.  This way, If I really want the item I can at least get it at a lower price after some haggling. 

If I place the ball in the seller's court and ask if they could do better, I might get a little discount but they will then know I am interested and the momentum may not be on my side.  

If I see a seller is a bit more determined towards a sale, I will try to get them to move a little lower.   

In my experience in buying, I usually only go after something I really want.   So, if I can get it for a bit less, great.  If they don;t move on price and its for me fair, I will still buy it.  If as seller just flat out offers something at a lower than expected level I won't even ask if they could do a bit better, I will just buy it.

As a seller, I have sold speakers I had to come down on and still wait patiently for a sale.  I believe I got the lower side of my expectations but all parties happy.

Now have listed some gear, nothing rare but good for their price points and figure I will have to wait it out and perhaps haggle a bit for a sale.

Your stuff is much more specialized.  I would do the research on pricing and ease of moving a particular piece of gear, shipping. etc., to determine a reasonable expectation on both sides.  Expecting nearly half of retail doesn't mean anything to me.  It's what it's worth at the moment.  If my expectation is too low for whatever reason, I don't list.   If there's too much of a certain gear for sale, I will watch what happens first.

Then there's the economy to consider.  I feel that alot of people have their attention on other matters at the moment and that can detract from one's sale.  I need food before I need gear.  It's Spring and people focus on moving.  Perhaps looking for a higher paying job is someone's focus.  Then there's relationships, marriage, life changes often occur in the Spring, so there's that to detract attention away form used gear. 

And there's the fact I already have all the gear I feel I need for this hobby, why buy more?

 the USSR was a great country too

sure, like a psychopath mass murderer is a hero. Don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy

Can there be a single thread on this audio-enthusiast site that does not get systematically dragged into politics? No one gives a sh t about your opinions (or mine, but I choose to keep mine to myself)

it's funny how sensitive some of you are now, but when it was constant "cables cause a fortune due to Bidenomics" it didn't bother anyone. And to answer the question, 9 out of 10 threads here have zero politics. Done, you won't hear a word from me :)

Great topic....

Like all collectibles, prices go up and down.

I enjoy the audio hobby and am always looking for the next buy/sell.

Recent... Threshold CAS1 (75wpc) bought $950/sold $500, Threshold FET9 bought $1,200/sold $850, Totam Hawk speaks bought $900/sold $600, Manley Chinook bought $1,315, Manley Stingray bought $1,900, Klipsch Cornwall III pair bought $2,200

I'd love to sell my Stingray and get mono Snappers or older Manley gear.  I think $1,800 is a reasonable ask for my Stingray (it was sent into Manley and has new caps and new tubes) but I see other sellers asking up to $3,900. And on the other end, I would pay $2,600 for an old pair of 175's or $3,000 for Snappers, but the asking price is $6,000 to $7,500.

I think lots of sellers are trying to make money.

I, on the other hand, am looking for good deals, and am willing to give a good deal when I want a change.

gotta love the hunt, gotta love the listening.  

it's funny how sensitive some of you are now, but when it was constant "cables cause a fortune due to Bidenomics" it didn't bother anyone. And to answer the question, 9 out of 10 threads here have zero politics. Done, you won't hear a word from me :)

Honestly I am equally sick of right wing and left wing posts. Believe me I am not one to shy away from discussing politics, but this is not the appropriate forum

All it does is get otherwise good informative threads deleted by moderators, and honestly I can't blame them.

For what it's worth @grislybutter I always appreciate your non-political posts :)

 @devinplombier  

Wonder if butter dude lied on his asylum/refugee application or somethin..One has to wonder otherwise why there is such constant buttery incessant paranoia on every thread that Donnie might deport his hiny back to wonderland....bwahahahaha

(Political paranoia on every thread..fear of losing his buttery fluffy couch....tis the way of the thread killing butter/ ’self proclaimed’ saint.)

It’s ok butter, if you want, i’ll pay an attorney for free to keep your hiny here, paranoia free.

Honestly I am equally sick of right wing and left wing posts. Believe me I am not one to shy away from discussing politics, but this is not the appropriate forum

All it does is get otherwise good informative threads deleted by moderators, and honestly I can’t blame them.

@deep_333 I guess you think you are funny or insulting, nice tries.... but your tiny little world is just sad and pathetic. Feel free to ignore me.

Yup, yup, if there only was a ignore button, you would have landed in the 'ignore the wacko' pile a long time ago.

About a year and a half ago  had a friend with a lot of high end equipment pass away. His widow asked if I would help her try to sell it all off. I collected all the equipment, did research on it, and then proceeded to start to list it here and on other sights. 

I guess I was realistic about pricing because most everything sold very close to the asking price. There were a few itrems that went for more, and a few that went for less (10-20% either way. 

Some items sold as soon as they were listed, others took 4-6 weeks before they sold. I’m not sure if this is a normal time frame for those that frequent this site and buy and sell equipment, but I didn’t find it to be too bad. I personally have sold a bunch of “pro-sound” equipment, and that equipment takes a huge hit $$$ wise. Example would be a 4 year  $10k mixer in pristine shape, high offer $1,400.00. I guess it just depends on your perspective. 

One other quick story, and it is in reference to the response about different peoples budgets. A friend who use to work at one of the premier high end audio stores in the Chicagoland area back in the late 70’s/early 80’s told me that a guy came in the store, layed a invoice on the counter and said, I need to replace this equipment. The guy responded, did you get ripped off. The customer replied, “no, I lost it in a poker game last night”. The invoice totaled $48,000. 

From my vantage point, if you are financially sound enough to be able to replace a system of that value (70’s/80’s dollars), you are probably not going to be purchasing used equipment.

Recently sold tube monoblocks for asking price. Recently sold tube preamplifier for asking price. So no problem with selling used gear. Where are you advertising? I use USAudioMart. 

Unfortunately, we suffer an inordinate amount of Tire kicking. I think many of those low ball offers are a little more than that.

Dealer here, but I’m weighing in anyways. 

I would say that the market was NOT slow from October through January. It was really quite strong. 

I personally noticed some impact immediately after the election, but it was short lived, and late November through January was stellar. 

Starting February, I started seeing a purchasing slowdown in my largest customer base, who I would classify as fairly affluent (but not in the top 1% per capita), while anyone I would consider a luxury / top 1% client is buying more than ever.

Part of this slowdown this month is normal. January through March tend to be a little slower in general due to recouping from the holidays and heading into tax season. But economic and political volatility is impacting purchase consideration as well, and I’ve heard concerns from a few of my clients.

Reale prices on the market, while relevant to all of the above, have also been affected by what others say based on how individual brands are doing in market, scarcity, and demand.

The market and supply / availability / saturation of products have also evolved. There are more brands/products now than ever before, especially in the digital domain, and vast improvement in products especially since 2020, which result in a slower rate of turnover of gear (e.g. DAC searches/cycles were likely more frequent than they are today because the baseline has improved significantly).

And yes, I believe too many people are asking too much for some of their used gear. So it’s very multidimensional.

FWIW, given the chatter on Audio Research, I just sold an ARC REF 75 SE at full asking price within days of it being listed. And I’ve seen it listed for lower in the market in the past. I think there is still value in many of their products, but people are thinking twice about which products from respective brands deliver the value they seek. I can imaging a newer set of REF 160 monos may move slower due to escalating tube prices, and many other ARC components, especially vintage, are not moving like they used to simply because they can’t compete from a performance perspective to more modern products at lower price points on the market.