Anybody having trouble getting near-your-asking-price for used gear ? (Plz. no hype)

My honest belief is that people can buy new gear that leverages newer technology and get better than ever sound for relatively low cost. As a result my personal inclination to buy pricey used gear is lower than ever. At least that’s how I as someone who wants good sound for as little cost as possible am seeing it. Add on the difficulty most have just making end meet these days and it’s a double whammy for pricey luxury items. Toss in that young people have little desire for this stuff and it’s a triple whammy. 

"I recently sold a Bryston BR-20 brand new in the box and it took me 7 months to get 48% of MSRP"

IMHO, the first issue is using the term "MSRP". I don't think anyone pays full retail for anything.  I doubt any of us pay more than 80% of MSRP for anything we buy? If you are not an authorized Bryston dealer, then warranty is probably an issue?  In this instance, I would think half price is about right.  I agree that no one should expect to get next to new equipment for 25 cents on the dollar, but 50% off MSRP is probably expected to be the starting price on pristine equipment that's 1 -2 years old?

I don't sell much used gear but a good dealer told me yes things are slow but based on the high prices of gear now, and even giving 15 - 20% discounts they are still doing ok. 

It's a tough time in my opinion.  Took a while to sell a few things recently.  I have a pair of Omega Super Alnico for sale locally , no bites.  

I don’t churn gear but this an interesting thread.  I suspect that @mapman nailed the reasons 

I have bought a couple of things used at around 60% of the typical selling price. They were like new and only a year, or two, old.  I like older gear, but I've had caps go bad in an amp and had trouble with a c-j preamp that I bought used due to its age (I returned it).

I recently sold a dac that was less than 2 years old and only got around 50% of what I paid for it new. 

@yesiam_a_pirate   Perhaps TMR had something to do with it. One can buy used with return privileges. Yes, you probably pay more for that, but it gives the buyer peace of mind. Your lowball offers may be coming from resellers such as yourself.

 Try throwing in a dozen eggs with purchase...

I would agree with the basic premise, but ARC is a poor example as they have had issues related to the various sales of the company, and matters of financing, that are not typical of all high end companies. IMHO, they are viewed as damaged goods by some at this juncture. So there are things unique to this company that are not reflective of the broader secondary market.

I have this theory that sounds good on paper, but I don’t know if it would work in practice. If You were to donate all your used gear to a young person that that would get more people into this hobby. Then with the avalanche of new music aficionado‘s, they will go out and buy. Which will in turn cause companies to ramp up their production. Think how cheap a Macintosh amplifier would be if they had to make 1 million of them.

Times have definitely changed. You used to be able to count on a decent used value on good hi-fi gear, guns, cars, motorcycles, etc. Now your lucky to get more than thrift value. I know, I've sold 100s of those things through the years. Not sure what's driving it, but it just the way it is nowadays. 

I haven’t tried to sell anything in the last 7 years or so, but 50% for something a year old or less, and between 25% and 33% for gear older than that was typical of my sales.

@winoguy17 +1

I think there are multiple issues all culminating into what can be happening.

Brand stability issues, like mentioned above with Audio Research can have a large negative effect on a particular brands secondary values.  Owners want to ensure there is service, support and parts available after the purchase down the road.  Especially since this is an expensive hobby.  The opposite side of the spectrum may be a company like McIntosh.  If the glass on a 50+ year old amp/ preamp needs replacing, or if the unit needs servicing, the manufacturer still can provide those parts and services.  That carries a lot of value to people.

Shipping costs have gone insane the last 5-ish years.  What would cost $60 to ship 5 years ago is double that.  Some larger/ heavier gear can now be several hundred dollars to ship more than a few states away.  Buyers take that into consideration, as well.

Some gear is just more commoditized, like DAC's, for the most part.  Those things are being churned out by everybody and their brother.  Stuff like that just lowers the price in the secondary market incredibly fast.

I'm sure that are more issues, as well.

@gordon

Yep….. it’s at a 50% haircut threshold where success to sell generally facilitates buyer interest IMO

MY TAKE:

(1) there have been numerous too-oft repeating threads in most of the major audio forums, with certain types trying to bless forum buyers with arguably insulting low-balling offers, as a perfectly benign and acceptable behaviour, and a gross failure to gauge the audio forum court of public opinion fallout . And these bidders are complaining to be shocked with umbrage when they get blocked out .

(2) Anecdotally, around 50% off the MSRP price-when-new for quality hi-fi gear (… a fine but important distinction…) appears to be where many sales are made. Asking prices on ads edging higher up appear to linger a lot longer and many ads become stillborne.

Mid-fi or Lo-fi gear is a lot more tepid market, and no surprise if a greater discount is the key to getting it sold

And cheaply priced counterfeit made-in-China originally flooded on Ali Baba …. Good luck.

I don’t sell a lot of items, but when I do it usually goes for 50% - 60% off MSRP. The selling price can be lower if the item is more than a couple of years old or modified. To sell quickly I include shipping and other fees in the selling price.

Until recently, if I am purchasing new and have an item to sell, I try to trade it in with the purchase. Lately Dealers have been less lenient with reimbursement for trade-ins, so I have gone back to selling used items on Audiogon.

Most of my late purchases are from TMR. You always get peace of mine doing transactions with them.

Maybe the economy? We just went through Covid supply chain crazies and recently a significant inflation bout, maybe less available "hobby" funds?

Yes I’ve had the same experience lately.  I could guess at the reasons why but it’s a real thing.  I have a pair of speakers I’m still selling and someone asked me why I was selling for 1/2 price.  I was honest and told them I had priced them higher but no one was buying.  If I  don’t get fair value I’ll keep them and find a use.  Glad this is a hobby and not a needed income stream.  

Same here, dropped my price to less than half and still no bites.    I think Covid and inflation have really hurt most people's disposable income.   

I thought they would have been an easy sell.

People are also alarmed by economic instability.  With the stock market tanking and trade wars in our midst, dropping megabucks on a used piece of audio gear doesn’t strike many of us as a prudent move.

  I wonder if the consumers of used vs new high end gear are two different groups of buyers.  If I had Elon Musk bank account I wouldn’t be buying used. Less exalted  wealth status dwellers might be more interested in buying and reselling high end gear and be more concerned that they generate enough of a return on used equipment to maintain the sustainability of their ability to keep churning 

.....yes and the fact that the last two sales I had here on Audiogon, the sellers conveniently  '' forgot '' to add the Pay - Pal fees when that was clearly marked in my add and I was picking up shipping. This was also after asking for a lower price.....watch for that trick.    

.......my big mistake the ;  '' Buyers nicely forgot '' to include the Pay- Pal fees.    

One great thing about Google is how it dredges up ads for long-since-sold gear.

Not infrequently, you see circa-2000 gear commanding less money in 2010 (when it was 10 years old) than the ask today, at 25 years old, in 2025.

Is it possible that the current market trend is simply a reversal to the mean?

Stratification of society, increasing income inequality, economic and political uncertainty.

People with deep pockets usually buy new, with some exceptions. The rest either don't have funds at all or save and spend minimum.

it's funny I am looking to buy used gear and the prices are 60-80% of new for 5, 10 year old gear. I make offers for slightly less (5% minus) and they are not accepted. Very hard to find decent used gear

No no no, you offer 15% less, then it will be taken more seriously. It's not just formal transaction, it's interaction.

oh, ok, 15%. thank you

Another thing. If it is not stated clearly in the ad, I always first ask the seller if the price is firm or he considers offers before actually making one.

10%-15% off offers is a normal polite operating range. Of course, there are exceptions, both ways.

In 2008/09 I purchased quite a bit of gear due to the recession. The used market seemed healthy with quite a bit of deals as people navigated the recession in the US.

I’m curious what 2025 will yield given the political and economic uncertainty. Tariffs on Canada and China for new components and parts will likely push up prices. This may increase traffic and interest in the used market in two ways:

1. People selling their gear to give themselves a buffer

2. And people purchasing to avoid the price increase for new components.

As for myself, I’ve scrapped future purchases given the industries that my spouse and I are employed in. Instead, I’m going to focus on gardening and landscaping (in conjunction to listening to music) for its therapeutic benefits.

@toro3 it will increase used prices. Or everyone will be broke and push them down. Probably both in this order.

I own (and occasionally buy and sell)  mostly 'vintage' audio equipment (1960s - 1970s), so my comments may not be 100% transferrable to the more modern audio community... but, IMO:

I do feel like we MAY have now passed the 'peak' in terms of getting top dollar for used equipment. I think many of the factors mentioned by other commenters are valid partial reasons for this (current economic climate, large increases in shipping costs, ease of comparison shopping via the Internet / more people 'flipping' and selling, etc.) but I also feel there are larger forces at play.

I think the main reason for the decline in the modern used audio market is that modern audio enthusiasts put more of a premium on having the latest technology; a lot of their interest in purchasing equipment is to access new tech and new features. And even 3 or 4 year old gear might not have all the latest tech and features. So they skew more towards buying brand-new vs. used right off the bat.

For the vintage audio sector, interest in general is more driven by nostalgia and not as much by the technology itself... middle aged (and older) guys like me who either want stuff they had when they where younger (or a parent or relative had) or they always wanted "back in the day" but couldn't afford it back then... the main reason for a decline in vintage is simply - and bluntly - the main pool of hobbyists are dying off, and there's not a lot of younger people filling in the ranks (most younger people, if they have any interest in audio AT ALL will gravitate towards the modern equipment with the technology they are more familiar with...)

The other main problem in both audio communities (IMO) is that sellers are often overly optimistic about setting a price point. They look at listings on places like eBay, Audio Mart, Reverb, etc. and often times feel justified setting their own pricing based on the highest priced listings they see... and many times that listing has been sitting there, with basically zero interest, for months or even years. One obvious thing is to filter down to the actual "sold" price for the same equipment; as there is often a large difference in what something is listed at, and what it actually sold for. I also suggest looking at how long the item was listed (when that information is available) so you can decide on perhaps a balance between what you want to get for your gear, and how long you want to have to list it for, answer messages, send demo videos or host in-person demos for, etc...

Another important factor is you need to price for the local market you are in. With shipping becoming so expensive - and horror stories of buyers receiving damaged gear on their doorsteps becoming easier to find and read about - more people are shying away from buying expensive, heavy electronics that need to be shipped to them. I don't sell a lot of equipment, but I have noticed a trend towards more and more of what I do sell being bought locally. And those potential out-of-state buyers being a lot more concerned with shipping details such as how is the equipment being packed / who is packing it (DIY or a professional shipper); which shipping company am I going to use; details on what my 'policy' is if something arrives damaged, etc. Honestly, for me, losing a little in sale price because it's a local sale and not getting shipped to LA / NY / Chicago for top dollar... is often offset by not having to hassle with packing and shipping - and the buyers who still insist you can ship a 60 pound piece of audio equipment across the country for $50, so why I am I "ripping them off" when I quote $150 to (professionally) pack and ship my unit..?

@grislybutter that would make sense: essentially initial increased prices in the used market (depending on the extent of economic health and tariffs) due to supply and demand from people avoiding purchasing the same or similar product new then, correct?

And +1 @carlso63 

@toro3 Yes, I think if a new e.g. Simaudio 340 price goes up 25%, the used one will be worth more. But once we feel the effects, people will stay away from discretionary spending, demand will go down and prices have to follow. 

There is an audio feature though: sellers seem to be wealthy and not have to sell, they can just hold it and won't drop the price just to make money or clean out the basement. 

There are some really thoughtful and honest responses here. I really appreciate the insights. 

I don’t think uncertainty is as big of a factor as some suggest. The audiophile population is aging and passing on. Part of aging is losing the desire to regularly buy and sell heavy and expensive gear. I am now 63 and am not as interested in going through all of the hassle associated with buying, trying and selling. Demand is down because the marketplace, which has always been rather small, is opting out of the constant buying and selling routine because of burn out and age. I rank this as the #1 reason for lower demand. Some opt out due to uncertainty while an equal number of others sense things are positive.  I see an equal split on this factor. 

Well then soon there will be nothing to buy, if you are right ?

Ha! Well I still buy and sell and others will. Just doing it far less. It is a matter of degree. We all agree the number of Aphiles is small. If we are buying 50% less often, then…..

We older folks still need to unload extra gear while we slow down and simplify. Your point is still valid in that I see the market for new and used gear continuing to slow over the short and long run. We are witnessing, in real time, this truth.  

Harboring unreasonable price expectations is definitely a problem. Platforms are clogged with six-month-old or year-old or even older listings like overflowing toilets. 

Meanwhile, listings that are priced competitively still sell within a couple of days.

Something happened three or four months ago:  the bottom dropped out for excellent used equipment. 

Post election, many things related to people's sense of stability are up in the air.  This seems to be causeing people to be skittish with their disposable income.  What do I mean?

Inflation appears not to be under control as the cost of many staples that people need ever day do not seem to be dropping.

Now, add to that the daily talk of what tariffs will do to automobile, lumber, home, and grocery prices and people are even more concerned that they will have less disposable income for the rest of the year.

And yes, with the stock market and people's investments/401k's being reduced, the result is increased resistance to spending.

If you are selling an audio product on one of the forums that is not in perfect condition, that is not very mainstream in looks, that is not one of the highly sought after brands, that is expensive to ship, that you no longer own the packaging, that is not generating a lot of recent buzz....prepare to get hammered because the market for most "disposable income, hobby, recreational related purchases"  is down and will take some time to recover...maybe months, maybe years...depending on when people's confidence and savings/investments recover.

In the mean time, there is always TMR for those who can't or won't wait.

the tariffs will increase prices for all audio, not just from Canada and it will drive companies out of business. We consumers will have fewer choices and increased prices without any gain.. 

Logic indicates we all simply need to remove our own personal tariffs when selling in order to lower the price and be able to do business. A 25% reduction in asking price should do it. 

In my opinion we will look back and see all is good.  Relatively short period of time needed to sort this out for the good of us all. 

sort what out?

It might also be a good time for sellers to be buyers....buy what you want now, possibly getting a better deal and hold off selling until things get a little better.

@grislybutter Sort out the tariff and trade issues mentioned here. Feel all will be good in the not too distant future. Time will tell, but this not a permanent situation and only part of ongoing negotiations. I hope you can make your amp purchase soon. 

@grannyring got it. We'll see.... Quick pain is better than long-lasting.

As a person with chronic lower back pain I agree 100%! 

Yeah, speaking of inflation and generally of the cost of living. When I get $450 electrical bill monthly, this is average, in CT, residing in an apartment... This is a big apartment though by usual standards but still. And then other things getting more expensive by the day.

On the other hand, there is an advantage of that. By comparison, spending, say, $50 per month on tubes for my amp looks like nothing.