@tunefuldude I am doing this tonight after having my modded PeachTree GAN1 on the sidelines for a few months. I was short 1 streamer to get that going. The "DACless" design is incredible but I can see established players being reluctant to make these pieces. Less things to sell.
65 responses Add your response
Have you heard about the latest trend of no DAC at all? Not joking. Talk about lowering the noise floor. How about the blackest background ever. And apparently, pretty much everyone agrees. Which is hard to believe, Lol. I have a Lyngdorf tdai 2170 and love it to death. End game. It's sort of the middle child between the two current models. The new ones allow you to stream directly from your phone. The thing that makes their approach so cool is that it's sort of like a wire with gain, from a practical standpoint. I recommend you read some reviews. @mbmi who are you referring to, specifically? |
I think the performance (Integrated Amp with DAC inside) is about the synergy between the DAC implementation and amplifier section. Although having myself separates (DAC and Integrated Amp), I truly believe this. Another gear I'm curious to test is the Daniel Hertz system or just the Daniel Hertz Maria Integrated Amps. This is the Mark Levinson' brand and it's a new market approach (proposing a complete system - Amp and Speakers). It's expensive but above some point we know that a step up is not a proportional investment but rather an exponential one (a "lot" more money for a "small" step in quality improvement). It's just a matter of deciding if we want to downsize or not, even if it do not mean spending less 😁 - sometimes less is more. This is a subject matter and all opinions are right, at least for that person. |
I'd like to chime in on the AVR part of the discussion above. I'd have to agree as a person who has a little of everything that given the budget, selling price and design parameters that exist with AVR's you can't really touch esp higher end Int Amps and even more so standalone. Not even close. BUT! Some can sound pretty good. I have the Marantz Cinema 40 and it does a great job of non-top of class decoding. Just my two-cents. Doesn't answer audiocanada's question at all though. lol |
What a great conversation. I owned the PS audio gain cell dac and I didn't think it was that good. I've used the PS audio DL3 which was much better. And I liked the onboard dac of the he PS Audio strata integrated. I really like that integrated app so even though it's not hooked up at the moment I do enjoy listening to it and can't quite part with it. I've had the CXA81 too. Love the sound of that... However it did not appear to have the juice to drive my floor standers as the sound thinned out considerably when comparing between bookshelf and floor stander. My favorite to date is the electrocompaniet ec6d which I bought second hand. The integrated DAC on that is super. I don't feel I need to pair it with an external dac. Seems like once you get above two or 3,000 for integrateds The sound largely becomes a matter of what you like. So it can be tough to say what is actually better. Kind of like arguing about what color is better. hope this helps. |
ronboco, He kept the Technics because he preferred the sound. I’ve listened to Boulder several times and I prefer a different sound. It doesn’t matter what my friend or I prefer. He made his choice based on listening to both in his system. I’m happy you love your Boulder 866. I’m curious if you directly compared the 866 to the SU-R1000?
|
My friend directly compared the Technics SU-R1000 to the Boulder 866. He sold the Boulder 866. I've listened to the Rotel Michi Integrated amplifier and their mono-amps. In my opinion they're both mediocre. Gryphon sounds very good, but after a really good friend's recent experience with repair of his Diablo 300 integrated amplifier, I would never purchase Gryphon.
|
@inna The Diablo 300 is still among the very best. The D333 will probably be even better but the price is much higher. |
Even not in the same high level of some several gear referred above, one other option with outstanding ratio price/quality is the hybrid "Advance Paris A10 Classic Integrated Amplifier" Really really good sound in a very complete amplifier. For less than USD 2.000 is an almost unbeatable option of a All-in-One solution. Great looks (specially the meters) and a sound that is way above its specs. Worth a audition even with some more demanding speakers. |
@katman If you honestly think a $1500 AVR is identical to the likes of products being mentioned here you’re even more clueless than I initially thought. You should go try someplace like Reddit where you’ll find people more on your level because you’re completely outta touch with what’s going on here. |
As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, the market for integrated amplifiers with high-quality built-in DACs has been growing. However, product availability and specifications may have changed since then. I recommend checking the latest reviews and product listings to ensure you get the most up-to-date information. The Rotel Michi X3 Series 2 is indeed known for its excellent DAC section, but there are other integrated amplifiers in a similar price range that also offer impressive built-in DACs. Some alternatives to consider include:
|
@katman claws out. Eek. |
@katman Uh, no it doesn’t. What you’re proposing here is a $2500 AVR over a $5800 integrated stereo amp. No. Just…no. These two components are not in the same stratosphere and should never be mentioned in the same discussion. You’re a new member and welcome!!! But this tends to be a more serious audiophile forum and as such I’d suggest that for future responses you do a little more research to make more appropriate and useful recommendations or you won’t be taken seriously here, or worse. Glad you’re here, but u gotta kick it up a notch to be of real help. Hint: recommending an AVR in the amps-preamp forum is a definite no no but could well be welcome in the Home Theater forum. Don’t mean to be an arrogant douche but just trying to help as you go forward here. Or maybe I’m just a douche, but I really am just trying to help here. |
I recently auditioned the Linn Select DSM with streamer and DAC (meaning it did not include the preamp and amp modules)… in my system… also auditioned the DAC in it, by itself. This is the midlevel DAC as there are three levels in which it can choose… so by itself I am thinking it is about a $6K DAC… it is very good. If I was in the market for an all in one, I would definitely have it on my list. I have not done a comparison of the preamp/amp part. The Streamer / DAC portion were $12K and were definitely worth of the price. Very refined and well rounded sound. |
Idk if this counts but Denon better avr have good dac, my 4500h says this : ”For enhanced fidelity and dynamic range with low distortion, the AVR-X4500H features 32-bit AKM AK4458VN digital-to-analog converters on all channels, helping to ensure consistent high fidelity and channel matching across all channels. |
@arafiq i had the U-180 and loved it. When I had the chance to upgrade, I did it and zero regrets. Honestly, and after a bunch of bought gear through the time, probably this is the best DAC+Amp I had. I appreciate more the music instead of the gear. This is a “clichet” but in my case suits perfectly ! Never tried the U-150 but an authorized dealer (that have all gear available, New, Demo, and Used) told me that the U-180 is sonically better than the U-150 (loosing the Phono stage - that I don’t use), and the U-280 a big step above the U-180, putting the U-580 in a even higher league. This lead me to buy the I-580 and D-580, upgrading form the U-180. |
@tiagocarneiro I have the Aavik U-280. By far one of the best integrated amps I’ve owned. The built-in dac is phenomenal. I compared it to the Denafrips Terminator 2 dac which I owned when I was auditioning the Aavik. No comparison, the Aavik dac was substantially better than the Denafrips. I also compared it to T+A Dac200 and it was equally good. In fact, the Aavik had better bass control than the T+A. I also auditioned the U-150, and preferred the U-280. Of course, the 150 has a world class phono but other than that I preferred the 280 in my system. I bet the 580 is even better. |
Anybody have the chance to compare McIntosh’s DAC1 to its DAC2? The MA-5300 integrated ships only with the earlier model & requires a $1000 dealer-only upgrade to replace it with the DAC2. That’s frustrating. I see no reason why this upgrade couldn’t be done at the factory when the unit is ordered. Visiting the Mac dealer closest to me would require getting on a plane; and two-way shipping of even the relatively light MA-5300 would run $800-1000. You can buy a pretty nifty little late model HiFi Rose DAC/streamer that offers a much better interface for that kind of money. It baffles me why the company won't allow users to buy its mid-priced integrateds with the better DAC pre-installed, especially since many live in states that don’t have dealerships. But my threshold question is simpler: Is the difference between the two DACs significant enough to justify a nearly $2000 upgrade?
|
The new Peachtree Carina is excellent for the $$ and they have a trade up program...If you can find a used Aavik U-150 for under 10K , Buy it.....best dac and MC phono stage Steve Huff ever heard in an integrated.....I own one 20K new...it's better than their new gear DAC and phono stage wise in MHO . |
The Mola Mola Kula integrated amp, the Kula, has the famous Tambaqui DAC built into it. As an option you can get the Kula integrated with or without a DAC and a phono stage. The optional DAC circuit inside the integrated amp is the same as the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC. The Tambaqui has been praised by numerous reviewers as one of the finest DACs available at any price. So, if you want an integrated amp with a world class DAC the Mola Mola Kula is it. |
Linn makes several excellent DAC/ Integrated amps. They also offer a number of customizable options to upgrade the sound (many of which you can do after a bit of time when your resources are replenished. Did I mention that the design is beautiful too…. Worth a listen before you commit to any of the above mentioned options (Hegel is a great choice too) |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
The DAC in McIntosh’s integrateds is a Digital Audio Module that can be replaced by future modules to stay up to date with the latest digital audio technologies - a very good strategy. My MAC7200 came from the factory with the DA1 module installed, which sounds great. At some point I’ll upgrade to the DA2 module to gain TV integration via HDMI ARC connection.
|
