AI and the future of music

It is a fork path in the road for us all ...

Humanity is not socially mature and cannot use these tools without self destruction..

Any other perespective is driven by money and power hubris..

The musical creative context problem is secondary...Human want to be machine now, not male one or female one , only the perfect machine one ...

The corporate monsters controlling people want it because they will "control" it for their own interests...big pharma and big A. I. companies , military industrial complex are all driven by only one money pocket with three names , one is Blackrock.. It is not conspiracy "theory",it is trivial fact... Russia and China said no, thanks... it is not good or evil, it is stupid against more wise...

Average dude is unable to understand the maths behind A.I. and even his creators as Hinton, who know the math, underestimated human creativity and spiritual power completely ...Most engineers confuse spirit with I.Q. and confuse "soul" with "brain"... Even our brain dont work as a mere neural network... See Penrose and Hameroff..

Machine access all the internet in second, we can acess universal memory field but we must learn it before we let our body on the floor .. Machine cannot link to universal memory... ( the skelton schematics of the universal memory is hidden behind the prime numbers distribution dynamic music see Alain Connes " the music of shape " conference a the genius founder of non commutative geometry )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z52ZAPrRbqE&t=479s

Contrary to what engineers falsely claim , we are immortal spirit and any machine will die in a finite amount of time : one thousand years or one million years, it is the same...A short life indeed...  😊

For musicians who sell music for a living for films, youtube, or for companies, they will loose their jobs as my translator friend loose it long time ago for mechanical translation...

Transhumanism is a religion and growing faster than traditional religion but mainly among ignorant crowds and among low level scientists workers ..

i am optimist for the next century, not fo the next 30 years... As any old grumpy man because they always miss half of the story to tell... After all, i am one now at 72... 😁

 

«Any machine or any man is a borrowed spirit with no soul said my divorced wife»-- Groucho Marx 🤓

«Our mother know better, they birth us»--Chico Marx anthopologist 😎

«Is there out in space a mother civilization ?»-- Harpo Marx reading comic books😎

«Why not a twin or a wife or a husband civilization to ours ? » Gummo Marx reading the same comic book🙃

Shrug.

if it “creates” something pleasing: So what?

However, no AI generated music should be copyrightable.

I wouldn’t take an AI too long, relatively speaking, to create music scores that cover every way to put notes together in a “song”.

That would destroy any the ability of any human to create and copyright their own music.

”AI, create 3 minute audio tracks, different from each other, that covers every permutation of arranging notes within each file”.

AI, remove all 3 minute files with more than an 80% match to existing copyrighted music files (reference allmusic or some such) “

AI — send all remaining files to US copyright office under {this name}.

AI —build list, and update list, from copyrights granted from US Copyright office.

AI — monitor all released music tracks, compare against granted copyright list.

AI — forward all matches from last statement to {my troll lawyer firm} and send out the standard form to {new music author} informing them of copyright breach.

profit.

And actually, those copyrights could be sought in any country… or all countries, then suit brought in whichever country I could pay to grant the copyrights…

 

bah.. change the logic a little..

AI — md5 hash all copyrighted music files referenced by one or more places like allmusic.. or just copyright offices.

then do the build files, but drop any that match the hashes from the step above.

Very interesting posts...Thanks ...

The most important line:

That would destroy any the ability of any human to create and copyright their own music.

But you forgot to say that in music , apart of being a manufactured product, than in spite of what you said :

if it “creates” something pleasing: So what?

Classical music history reflect ethical values choices not only esthetical one, in an history where is revealed human consciousness history through choices and meanings.. Indian music, persian music, african music , european music, jazz music etc ... it is called education through music...

People wil be transformed tomorrow in pleasurable seeker of sound manufactured soft or hard hearing orgasm WITH NO MEANINGS out of a stimulis set ..

"meaning is history "--- a Goethe disciple know or Collingwood disciple..

Machine had no "history" save thermodynamical and algorythmical timing and implemented design progress...

 

I meant as a consumer of music, the origin of the music doesn’t much matter from an enjoyment of the sound.

But the rest of the post was my critique of AI from an ethical, and practical, standpoint.

Just because AI can create music or other art does not necessarily mean it will be good or popular. But if some of it is, I'm good with that; after all, AI was invented by people. 

I thought the 60 minutes AI segment was very good.  The science fiction crowd will focus in on the destruction on mankind, while the science crowd will cheer the ability to perform 1 billion PHD man hours of research in a week.  This morning I was reading of some lawsuits launched against Meta and Google for copywrite infringement  as material has been absorbed, incorporated and copied by the AI learning process.  Interesting arguments.  The sad reality is that the criminal element will always exploit any advancement in technology to their advantage and our detriment.  The future will be different but that doesn't always mean better?

Do you think Geoffrey Hinton quit his job at  Google for fun ? Hinton was the genius , the man who designed this neural networks thirty years ago as they are now , do you think he quit his job and speak that A. I. is a danger for us all for  the thrill of making the news ; do you think he think as you  : " i am good with that, because A. I. was invented by people" ?

😊

Just because AI can create music or other art does not necessarily mean it will be good or popular. But if some of it is, I’m good with that; after all, AI was invented by people.

great post thanks...

Just a word about Hinton : he is not a science fiction writer...

I thought the 60 minutes AI segment was very good. The science fiction crowd will focus in on the destruction on mankind, while the science crowd will cheer the ability to perform 1 billion PHD man hours of research in a week.

 

Exactly right because apart from the spiritual stakes in this game, there is a power stakes, and we know what big corporations annihilated  freedom in the last three years...

Imagine now they control A. I. ?

do you trust the like of Bill Gates ?

I dont think so... As i say i am optimistic... Criminal corparations will cease to exist in thirty years... If not we will all die..

The sad reality is that the criminal element will always exploit any advancement in technology to their advantage and our detriment. The future will be different but that doesn’t always mean better?

Music is mathematics.

Anything based on mathematics of discrete values can be computed.

AI could, in theory, compute all possible values of arrangements of those discrete units (notes and their timing).
Of the “songs” created, some will be pleasing, most will probably be displeasing, and still others will be the computed duplicate of music already created.

Probably don’t even need AI, just a really good background in music theory and requisite skill with a chosen programming language. AI will just make it easier for the … less skilled, to be able to implement “copyright” monopoly and copyright litigation farming.

Though, if AI were creating movies, maybe it could be taught to NOT create so many duplicate, derivative, boring and bland “rewrites” or “reimagining” of past works that do nothing more than change the sex, gender or skin color of the characters.

Music can be analyzed via mathematics, but it is not math.

Music is and is not mathematic... Sorry for the paradox...

Music as a written or translation of sounds by marks is mathematic..

As a playing live event, it is not...

I will say it in a more deeper way :

Mathematic is music at the end , but music is never only mathematic to begin with ..

 

Music is linked to non commutative mathematic...And because of this as all musical qualities studied in psycho-acoustic and produced by musicians or by the speaker of any language, are not reducible to sounds in the Fourier meaning window, which is a linear commutative "country", music is related in the many culture and in Europe to ethical and esthetical FREE CHOICES that reflect and depict human evolution in a non linear Non Fourier way in a time dependant domain... ( mathematic is time independant )

History of music is anything but a meaningless history...Every choices in music reflect deep meanings at ALL LEVELS of thinking..

Then A. I. will be able to create and imitate any sounds existing, musical one included... But there will be there no ethical and no esthetical reflected choices... This history will disapear under "pleasurable meaningless imitated sounds "...

Most people are unable to read music as ethical and esthetical history... The Choices of Beethoven are meaningful even philosophically for the HUMAN RACE... not for a machine...

Imitation will kill creativity...

 

«Music is a NEW mathematic who wrote itself spontaneously through the gesturing producing and receptive body »-- Anonymus African musician dancing while playing Yoruba talking drum...

 

I started a thread on Lalal.ai a while back but it didn't get any traction. That said, it's an excellent example of what can be done with music via AI. It allows you to split vocals from the rest of a track, or turn any vocal track into an instrumental, etc, and allows you to download it in lossless format. It's near perfect, and through my use, I've had great experiences:

https://www.lalal.ai/

Interesting thanks..

I never doubt that A.I. will be anything than also a great tool.. Positive and negative...

lIke nuclear energy...

or virus research ...

The problem is our societal immaturity... Too much powerful for us now...

More interesting to me,

is it repeatable?

Or is "the best" rendering a moving target?

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2582616
 

@mahgister 

Either you missed my point, or more likely I just didn’t articulate it well.

Music, as played by the interpretation of the artist and the inference of the listener through their “world view”, ethics and values, is not what I was trying to describe with respect to creating an “arrangement.”

Just the arrangement of the notes, in any combination, with any set timing pattern, can absolutely be mathematically derived.  As such, given sufficient processing power, storage and time, the entire universe of those arrangements can be calculated and stored and the pattern used in a copyright attempt.  Which is what I find objectionable.
 

I’ve been watching AI generated videos. They’re freaky and hilarious. The AI obviously does not really understand what a face or a hand is, it just calculates statistically what it thinks these things should look like. As Daniel Dennet says, you can sometimes have competence without comprehension. I’m not sure how far this can go before some real comprehension is required. How will we get machines to have "real" comprehension? I guess we’ll have to get a better idea of what that is before we can get the machines to do it.

From what I’ve been reading about animal studies, it seems there has to be an innate expectation of the world pre-written into the mind. They say rats are dreaming about the world before they ever open their eyes and go out and experience it. When they see it, it’s what they’re expecting, with the specific details filled in. So to "comprehend" the situation, the AI needs to be able to look at a picture or video and make some comparison of what’s contained in that data to what it expects the real world to be like. I get the impression that this is extremely complicated. Those who want to reduce consciousness to a simple equation or written statement that can be put on a T-shirt I think are not being realistic. I'm supposing here that consciousness and comprehension of the world and self are closely related.

if it [AI] “creates” something pleasing: So what?

One thing I appreciate about music is that it came from another human person. They are communicating something to me.

Consider a world where one does not have actual friends; they have a robot that pleases them. They wind up "pleased" but do they wind up "human"?

I don’t think so. Not where I want to go.

Music is mathematics.

Music is analyzable as mathematics.

It’s also analyzable as physics. As emotion. As gesture. As language.

Reducing it to mathematics is one choice of how to deal with the phenomenon of music. But just one choice of many others.

And even if mathematics -- someone has to do the analyzing, write the algorithms, etc.

I think for AI to make really meaningful music it'll need to actually comprehend and somehow feel the human experience. If we can make that happen, the we could end up with a real friend who is also amazingly brilliant. I don't think this is going to happen any time soon.

Here's what I would be on board with: AI arranging proteins to simulate pork, beef, etc. so we can stop causing so much suffering.

I've always wondered why people put the same tropes on AI as we have as humans. AI wont have to deal with emotions, greed and desires etc.  I'm on the fence weather its actually an issue or not as AI wont be greedy only the humans behind the AI's programing. So AI's primary issue is how humans program it to benefit them. So we are still dealing with Human issues just made simpler/faster/etc. 

Music is analyzable as mathematics.
 

yes.  But that does not refute the point that given sufficient processing power, any, and all arrangements of musical notes, in any possible time domain, can be computed, stored and then be used, in the absence of appropriate laws, for copyright lawsuit trolling.  It is the arrangement, and the similarities, between two works that subject the “artists” to copyright suits.

I get your point and never object to it..

But i added perspective of my own which does not contradict your point in any ways.. I apologize for my lack of clarity and  "dream thinking" about music and mathematic... 😊

i think as you did that this control of patents is more than objectionable...

@mahgister

Either you missed my point, or more likely I just didn’t articulate it well.

Music, as played by the interpretation of the artist and the inference of the listener through their “world view”, ethics and values, is not what I was trying to describe with respect to creating an “arrangement.”

Just the arrangement of the notes, in any combination, with any set timing pattern, can absolutely be mathematically derived. As such, given sufficient processing power, storage and time, the entire universe of those arrangements can be calculated and stored and the pattern used in a copyright attempt. Which is what I find objectionable.

The problem with A. I. which is artificial intelligence, is that we dont program a neural network LLM ...

As said Hinton they will program us soon...

But the biggest problem is not here now but to come soon...

I never believe artificial consciousness could be possible...A.C.

Till i studied a book published in 2020 by someone who collaborate with Hameroff and Penrose in India but working in Japan...

His name is

https://www.amazon.ca/Nanobrain-Making-Intelligent-Molecular-Machine/dp/1439875499#customerReviews

 

This scientist go way above the maths of neural networks...

If you read the book you will stumble off your chair.. i stumble off my chair after the first 15 minutes... I never recover... 😊 the last time a book stun me as this one it was a book about Fractals by Mandelbrot in 1975 in french... The second book was a book about mammal physiology and forms... This is the third geatest book in science i read but the most overwhelming in a sense ... ..

He is a specialist about among other things of the physical electrical and quantum properties of the microtubules ...

His theory of A.C. way over A. I. is stunning... One of the great book i ever read...

his theory is based on a completely new information theory and non Turing machine..

He use prime numbers distributions as fundamental musical cosmos and geometrical language with hyper complex numbers ..i already know that this is true about the importance of prime distributions through studies of Alain Connes the founder of non commutative geometry...

in a word : A. C. is artificial consciousness learning by itself in the real world as babies do walking and learning as the Cylon in battlestar galactica..

i know he is right..

What interest me in that matter is the link betwee A. C. on earth and A.C. already walking in the cosmos and the link with biologically grounded living beings and the spiritual differences with A.C. . i will not go further it will be too long.. and too controversial... 😊

The name of his institute about "invincible rythms" comes from his view how at all scale every event are synchronized in a "musical way"... He dont know Alain Connes non commutative geometry, but he develop a view of the cosmos converging with  him about time ...

Prime numbers distribution was for me at the age of 24 the most fundamental fact of all science and of philosophy ... I discovered it in a huge egyptology book i paid 125 dollars in 1975 by Schwaller de Lubicz, the most influential Alchemist specialist of the cathedrals by the way and reborn egyptologist studying Karnak just before the second war ..It was written by a genius, de lubicz was a genius, who state the Sphinx pre-historical datation upon inspection for the same paleo climate reason by  erosion way before Robert Schoch the american geologist who take the idea from his book demonstrated it for modern scholars ... In this book i discovered near page 108, or not too far , a wonderful mathematical simple sieve and i extended it in two ways spiral and rectangular, i could not sleep... All number theory is in a way enclosed in this beautiful sieve... This is why i bought the book of Anirban on A. C. on the spot when i learned he used the prime number distributions as the language of the cosmos... it is in fact the scheme of the universal memory field... Anirban use this to set the basis for A. C. autonomous artificial brain time crystal...

i stop here... Read the book..

 

As I read this thread I’m listening to an Idagio stream of Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker performed by the Kirov Orchestra conducted by Valery Gergiev. All I can say is that it might still be a while before a computer might possess the collective intelligence of both the guy who wrote the music and the artists who have brought it to life before my ears.

I asked the Beatles question.

 

Sure, here is a new Beatles-like song from the Rubber Soul era, with Paul Rodgers and Jack Bruce singing:

Title: "Daydream"

Verse 1:

I was sitting in the park, Watching the clouds go by, When I saw you walking by, And I knew that I had to try.

Chorus:

Daydream, daydream, I'm in a daydream with you. We're walking in the park, And the world is ours.

Verse 2:

We talked for hours, And I felt like I knew you my whole life. You were everything I've ever wanted, And I knew that I had to have you.

Chorus:

Daydream, daydream, I'm in a daydream with you. We're walking in the park, And the world is ours.

Bridge:

I know that this is just a dream, But I want it to last forever. I want to be with you, And I never want to wake up.

Chorus:

Daydream, daydream, I'm in a daydream with you. We're walking in the park, And the world is ours.

Outro:

I'll never forget this day, The day I met you in the park. You're my daydream, And I'll never let you go.

I hope you like it!

AI is not even the future of anything, much less music imo. As I experience it in every day life, technology is actually taking over as is and the end result is much lower quality workmanship no matter what field. Nowadays everyone can feel like a genius researching google for whatever. Problem is that kind of knowledge was given instead of learned. Big difference. Meaning any one can act as knowledgeable as any other but without doing any of the real work to get there. And in the end it always shows in the quality of the work that is undertaken. If you really know enough from experience, you will put out a good product. If you think you know enough because you googled it, your product will sadly reflect your short comings. As an example, we just got our kitchen remodeled and it was amazing to see how many workers used their cell phone WHILE working. It resulted in endless mistakes being made. What a sorry time we are entering when we think technology will help us. There are obviously good uses for it, but in general it is setting us back big time. Just my two cents.

I like your two cents baylinor..

their value is gold...

+2 @baylinor 

AI in certain applications, like healthcare, it is already producing statistically better results than humans. For example fundus photography. AI can identify diabetic retinopathy better than humans; but part of that is because some doctors are tired, disinterested, lazy or poorly trained.

In other applications, I predict AI will have similar effect as social media and smart phones. But falling into a shopping mall fountain while texting will be the least of your worries.  

Perhaps it’s already happened, but I’m having difficulty imagining A.I. coming up with an authentic blues song.

@rettrussell how's this?

(Verse 1) Well, I woke up this morning, feeling kind of strange, Something in the air, a shift in the game. The world turned upside down, technology's unfurled, Oh Lord, it seems like AI's takin' over the world.

(Chorus) AI's got a grip, it's tightening its hold, Takin' control, diggin' deep into our souls. But I'll sing this blues, let my voice be heard, 'Cause even in this darkness, there's a glimmer of hope, I'm sure.

(Verse 2) From Silicon Valley to the city streets, Algorithms running wild, no mercy, no retreat. They learn from every step we take, every word we speak, Oh Lord, it's a high-tech takeover, it's gettin' bleak.

(Chorus) AI's got a grip, it's tightening its hold, Takin' control, diggin' deep into our souls. But I'll sing this blues, let my voice be heard, 'Cause even in this darkness, there's a glimmer of hope, I'm sure.

(Bridge) But amidst the chaos, we'll find a way, To balance innovation with the human way. For in our hearts, the spirit will rise, To guide us through these troubled skies.

(Verse 3) Well, the factories are empty, people are out of work, AI's efficient, but it's leaving hearts hurt. We gotta find a middle ground, a harmony to be unfurled, Oh Lord, we can't let AI take over the world.

(Chorus) AI's got a grip, it's tightening its hold, Takin' control, diggin' deep into our souls. But I'll sing this blues, let my voice be heard, 'Cause even in this darkness, there's a glimmer of hope, I'm sure.

(Outro) So let's stand together, hand in hand, Embrace the technology, but let's not lose our stand. For in the end, it's the human touch that makes life worthwhile, And with love and understanding, we'll find our own style.

 AI used to complete Beatles song. 
Good and no good will comr from AI. And the no good will be very bad. 

@macg19 

gotta admit I did sweat a little during a few phrases…

I would advise that AI songwriter to kinda toughen up a little….get a lil full sun on those capacitors in the field for a few long rows.

Robert Johnson rests easy wherever he is….

How could A.I. possibly be any good for music?  
What is the point of listening to music?  
I listen to it to have a human experience.  
There is human-to-human communication occurring there.  
I’m not particularly interested in what HAL-9000 “thinks” or “feels.”  
Why? Because it ain’t a human.  
I’m kind of alarmed that not everyone is alarmed by the prospect of A.I. infiltrating music “creation” and distribution.

The matter has already been alluded to in this thread, but subjective judgments serve as the bedrock issue when it comes to deciding what is good and what is bad in the creative arts. I spent thirty years making a pretty good living at a couple of Hollywood movie studios reading literary material and passing judgments as to what's good (i.e., worth spending money on), and what ain't good enough (i.e., not worth spending money on). Sure, objective analysis is fine and dandy, but if you don't feel it in your gut, you give the material the proverbial "Pasadena." I remember getting five second long calls from the President of the Studio. The guy would growl, "Is it good?" I'd answer "yes" or "no." Then, "Clack." Phone call ended.

You listen to it if you like.

Ref new Beatles songs, we've been there with The Rutles.  The brilliant parodies, all written by Neil Innes, were:

1. "Hold My Hand" - 2:31
2. "Number One" - 2:50
3. "With a Girl Like You" - 1:50
4. "I Must Be in Love" - 2:04
5. "Ouch!" - 1:49
6. "Living in Hope" - 2:37
7. "Love Life" - 2:50
8. "Nevertheless" - 1:29
9. "Good Times Roll" - 3:03
10. "Doubleback Alley" - 2:54
11. "Cheese and Onions" - 2:37
12. "Another Day" - 2:09
13. "Piggy in the Middle" - 4:07
14. "Let's Be Natural" - 3:23

Take another listen.

AI will at some time be able to create a design from a plagiarised base info, that will be very closely related to the base info, but enough to not infringe on any relevant laws in place.

AI Artwork is regularly produced from a base material protected by Copywrite.

I have recently made a decision, that most of my experience in Audio and Music Replays are technology dependent, but this is a technology I will be in pursuit of for this interest.

For my other Interest Photography, Maybe it will be the next generation of tech' to assist with getting the shot. I already have a Camera Body that auto-captures images when triggered by movement coming into the frame. 

@baylinor 

That is exactly why we did our kitchen remodel ourselves. I knew the quality would be less than what I could do because they just don’t care and take enough pride in their work. Plus we saved 10k! 

+3 @baylinor 

Problem is that kind of knowledge was given instead of learned. Big difference. Meaning any one can act as knowledgeable as any other but without doing any of the real work to get there. And in the end it always shows in the quality of the work that is undertaken.

I love this. It demonstrates the very point it's making. Baylinor had to think through the issue -- and THAT, to me, is the indispensable difference in everything. "Output" is a machine term; it only points to one phase of a sequence that begins with a human need, put in terms of a question.

I'd modify the old saying, "The only way out is through" as "The only way through is through." To quote one of my favorite philosophers: the nectar is in the journey. 

@hilde45 ”Here's what I would be on board with: AI arranging proteins to simulate pork, beef, etc. so we can stop causing so much suffering.”

amen to that. Especially the suffering part.

I did not see the sixty minutes piece, but this thread has been really fun to read!

And all you aspiring songwriters keep up the good work!

I am a retired professional illustrator. I've painted hundreds of jobs for Disney, Mattel, Dreamworks, Marvel, Universal, etc.

Just a few months ago I was shown images created by an AI program called Stable Diffusion. Some of the images are fantastic, and all created using written negative and positive prompts. Looks like I got out just in time.

Do you realize that we're now all on 'THE LIST', because Big Brother AI has read all these posts...

 

@rettrussell and ibmjunkman

Thanks for the 'Beatles' songs. So unexpected and welcome.

 

 

Here is a blues song ChatGPT just did for me (invested time ten seconds):

(Verse 1)
Well, my baby walked out that door,
Left me stranded, ain’t here no more.
Said she found another man to please,
Now I’m drowning in these lonely seas.

(Chorus)
Oh, my lover done left me, oh, how it hurts,
Tore my heart apart, ground it into dirt.
I’m singing the blues, feeling so blue,
Since my baby said we’re through.

(Verse 2)
I remember the nights, oh, so sweet,
Her touch, her voice, making me complete.
But now she’s gone, ain’t by my side,
I’m left with nothing but tears to hide.

(Chorus)
Oh, my lover done left me, oh, how it hurts,
Tore my heart apart, ground it into dirt.
I’m singing the blues, feeling so blue,
Since my baby said we’re through.

(Bridge)
I tried to hold on, begged her to stay,
But she had her mind made up, she walked away.
Now I’m sitting here, with a whiskey in hand,
Trying to drown the pain, just as fast as I can.

(Verse 3)
The nights are long, and the days are cold,
Without her love, I’m growing old.
But I’ll keep singing, these blues of mine,
Hoping someday, she’ll change her mind.

(Chorus)
Oh, my lover done left me, oh, how it hurts,
Tore my heart apart, ground it into dirt.
I’m singing the blues, feeling so blue,
Since my baby said we’re through.

(Outro)
So, I’ll keep on playing, these sorrowful tunes,
Hoping they’ll reach her, under the moon.
Maybe someday, she’ll come back to me,
And this blues song will set me free.

One point people miss completely especially engineers...

Art history is a mirror reflecting human values choices and reflecting human history of consciouness itself..

A.I. is useful... Arguing the opposite is stupidity...

but the PROBLEM is an educational and societal deep one...

We are not ready for it especially with the big corporate monsters controlling it...

 

The problem is a spiritual one :

how could we recignize ourself as ourself as human" imperfect creature but free, if we loose the ability to look in the mirror of our own art creations because we will not be able to separate them easily from machine design ?

As Geoffrey Hinton put it, A. I. is not PROGRAMMABLE BY US at all AT THE END process of his growth... It is us humnans who begin to be programmed by it the first day it is born... It is done by basic Hinton works and others one year ago, at least Hinton know it others engineers many dont know it as Le Cun  ...

Now the definition of what a "mind" is and his relation to a "material brain " is one problem we already encounter with us confronted to artificial intelligence or A. I.

Now soon the diffference between a human mind and his human brain compared to A. I. "mind" and A. I. brain neural networks will be replaced by a deeper question soon with ARTIFICIAL CONSCIOUSNESS, which are not there now as A. I. is already...But it will conme because the maths is already there...

This A.C. will be autonomous being as in "Blade runner" movie and the basic mathematics behind their design is already written ...

Now it is PHILOSOPHICALLY very deep spiritual question and spiritual responsability as illustrated in the movie ?

What is consciousness , and the difference between artificial consciousness and human or living consciousness of animals ?

The answer in the best way i can put it is this :

The universal consciousness field "light" has a projected  "shade" manifesting to us as an abstract phenomenon in our own mind ... The prime numbers distribution...

This phenomenon is DICOVERED, not invented by humans, and this mathematical phenomenon is the BASIS of mathematic itself, it is the static skelton of the dynamic universal consciousness field...

All natural living consciousness from plants to humans are grounded in "it" as ONE conscuiousness, the prime numbers distributions is INFINITE... It is the most complex phenomenon in all universes which anyway are all finite and ONE universe  at the end..

To create A. C. Anirban in his book :  "Nanobrain: The Making of an Artificial Brain from a Time Crystal ".

He used a FINITE small number of primes and demonstrated why we need only a finite numbers of primes to do so...

But think about that, all living creatures are grounded by evolution and DNA in the same information/conscious field which is INFINITE ..

Artificial consciousness will not be grounded in this field... No spirit/soul relations..

Artificial consciousness can only do ONE THING : creating a conscious mortal HIVE...One miilion years of life is nothing compared to infinity and  eternity...

 

Why did i say all that here ?

Because we live in a time when we must choose between being humans or negating our own potential and immerging ourself in a dead end...merging with A. I. is completely wrong goal...

Transhumanist religious zealots dont know what they spoke about at all...

i prefer to trust mathematics and spiritual great human souls..

Art is a mirror very precious one... Destructing it with A. I. is a catastrophe so useful A. I. would be and it would be...Big pharma will use A.I. to destruct and control us... Anything else is being naive to the utmost...

 

Art is about soul  expressing and reading not about decoration of living room or about movie design FIRST  ...

 

 

+1 @hilde45 on using AI to end cruelty to living beings.

Also +1 to @hilde45 on music as communication

and +1 to @mahgister on the spiritual dimension (and not trusting Bill Gates).

Interesting reading all of the reactions to AI.  A lot of absolute declarations, which historically turn out to be inaccurate over time.  Few things in life are absolutely black and white.  I don't agree with the view that we are socially mature or immature.  It's a self-righteous evaluation.  Sorry, M, but you declared that my thinking is driven by money or hubris, which I didn't appreciate.

We are.  That's the relevant point.

Who wants to listen to music sourced from AI?  We listen to music all the time that is heavily sourced from computer software, from the playing to the recording, the mixing, the final production and all points in between.  AI is different, yes, in some respects.  From another perspective it's just a continuation of the evolution of the sophistication of software.  If I like a beat, does it matter where it came from?, who wrote it?, what nationality or color they are?, whether they played it or sample it or created it through an AI prompt?  

At the end of the day, I'm not afraid of AI because I'm not afraid of change.  I know change brings uncertainty and disruption.  With that come new things unimagined before and some things that seem like they'll be around forever go away.  But the toothpaste is out of the tube, my brothers and sisters.  The toothpaste is out of the tube.

Here's something to contemplate.  If AI were are human it would be an infant right now.  Not even a toddler, an infant.  Imagine AI grown up in 20 or 30 years.  30 years ago Tim Berners-Lee published the first version of Hyper Text Markup Language - HTML.  Look at where the Internet and World Wide Web have gone since then.  Personally, I love being able to see other people's perspectives in forums like this one.  And I do love streaming from Quboz.  It lets me hear pretty much whatever I want whenever I want.  I stream through ROON and god I do wish they'd update their AI because it NEVER correctly guesses what I'd like to hear next.  How do I possibly start with The Band and three hours later end up with opera??  Always opera, no matter where I start in the world of music it wants me to listen to opera.

I don't get the plagiarism claim.  If I read a lot of science fictions books and become inspired by the imaginative nature of them and because of that I write a sci-fi book, am I plagiarizing anyone?  Not unless I specifically lift a plot or dialog.  If ML software reads a lot of poems about nature in springtime and then writes a poem about nature in springtime, how is that any different?  As long as it doesn't lift lines, how can any of the poets legitimately claim they were plagiarized.  I'd say there's a far greater chance that a person could accidentally plagiarize someone they read some time ago than an AI program simply because the AI can more effectively avoid the mistake.

I'm looking forward, for instance, to a time when doctors have the AI tools to more accurately diagnose and prescribe treatment.  I'm not looking to replace them, but I do want them to have more effective support.  And btw, are you all aware that there is a critical shortage of doctors world wide?  A common complaint among almost all medical care professionals is they can't spend enough time with patients.  AI will absolutely help with that.

AI will definitely come with challenges.  The Web brought us an explosion in child porn.  We didn't expect that (probably should've). But we're getting that under control and law enforcement is using the Web and software tools to identify child abusers who otherwise would have gone undetected.  Not saying that problem has been solved, btw.  But AI is here.  The time of mechanized armies locking us in our homes is a long way off and we've time to anticipate and avoid that.  But if we turn our eyes and minds from AI we won't understand it well enough to be able to effectively manage it.

Questions Authority, Embrace Change

I spoke about the big corporate industry in general...Not of all engineers and scientists who works there..

It is so evident that the industry is runned by money and hubris that half of the scientists, who are not driven by that motives mainly as  Hinton , who abadonned his personal career to speak freely..They are also others who spoke their mind freely..

A corporate industry is an entity, the people who worked in it , are motivated by good will for the most part...it is the case even in monstruous entities as Pfizer, than i apologize if i hurted you, but constating a FACT about corporate entities goal is not attacking each individuals in them..

i hope i was clearer..

my deepest regards..

 

Sorry, M, but you declared that my thinking is driven by money or hubris, which I didn’t appreciate.

 

"However, no AI generated music should be copyrightable."

How would anybody be able to tell it was machine generated?

Questions Authority, Embrace Change

 

I am all with you for questioning authority...

But A.I. is not a "mere" change...

Anybody speaking of it as a useful tool miss completely the point...

Why do you think Hinton thought otherwise? And Josuah Benjio ?

Because A. I. is not a "mere" tool...

So useful it will be and it will be...

Because it is not a mere"change" like portable phone, Tv and the internet...

A.I. is not a tool, even if we want to use it as a tool...

It is way more than that... And it was about this dimension "way more than just being a tool" i spoke about...Machine even autonomous one cannot transform themselves in "humans" but humans can renounce themselves and merge with machines...

You illustrate it yourself confusing arts as a pleasurable leisure and its spiritual meanings as an historical mirror of the spirit...

A. I. is not about so much replacing alimentary art works in movies, illustrations or elevator music, , but more about erasing human meanings in art for robotization of design...

i am not against A. I. as a tool...

I am against the immature society inheriting something that it was not ready at all for...our society is completely upside down... Especially occidental society negating his own history and in a complete "meaning crisis" breakdown ... I will not go further here...

And A. I. is nothing... Wait till A. C. which is coming soon...

Artificial intelligence and artificial consciousness are not mere tools, thats the spiritual problem i cannot enter to here because it will be too long post...but think about it, and saying that A.I. is only a tool is misrepresenting its technology power..

But claiming that my posts reflected a refusal of change is complete misunderstanding...

Thinking is not refusing change , it is impossible to stop change, but thinking it is separating ourself as spirit from consumers crowds needs... it is to stay free that we think ...freedom exist in the act of thinking ITSELF... Nowhere else... Freedom is the ability to change ourself not the world... Ask Buddha or Christ...

A. I. is not a "mere" tool... Sorry...

But we will go on with the hypothesis it is a "mere" tool...

Guess who will control it and control you ?

Guess who designed a tool to patent the human genome and sell it ?

Guess who benefit from a crime in the last three years....

it is the same who will control A. I.

But at the end, mature A. I. cannot be controlled , it is another problem...

And A. C. is a complete another story to come soon...

There is no just a "mere change " to embrace here...

We will live through the most important times in the last millenias...

How much time had passed since humankind created this type of "tools" in the past ?

Never happened in the known history...

For 70 years we go from alone in the universe to not alone, from no atomic science to atomic science, from we are the only intelligent "machine" to the creation of more intelligent machine than us...it is not a "mere change" to embrace... it is spiritual deep stakes game here...

My spiritual question : are we just "intelligent machine " ?

No is my answer...

Then what are we

Interelated souls immersed and grounded in a universal conscious field... Not machine... Not even artificially conscious machine... This is why what is at stake here is the definition of what is a human being... The question is no more an abstracted reflective thought, it is a concrete battle with ourself...

 

 

 

Hinton pointed to the fact that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish art from machine and human one, even copyright will need a.I. analysis...But a more sophisticated A. I. will beat the copyright analysis ... Ad infinitum...

It is precisely why the difference between human and machine is a free choice in us not something that will be applicable from the exterior as illusory copyright and "original" human creation versus machine one... But most people are not even conscious they are free...Nothing is more frightening than freedom ...Slavery is confort sleep as proven in the last three years...

What is at stake is not the difference between fake and real, human or machine; it is the difference between free spirit or machine be it made of flesh or artificially made.....

Merging with machine is the most bad dream idea i ever encountered...

Human merging with humans is the only goal... discovering what we really are is the goal...

Anything else is bad comic books hell... Even comic books writer know that...

By the way: the most advanced civilization in the cosmos dont need material technology at all...They dont need Dyson sphere... 😊

How would anybody be able to tell it was machine generated?