I'd love to try the Rogue Pharaoh.
Affordable US Made Tube Pre/Power or Integrated Options
I'm considering switching to tube amplification from solid state. I'm fine with separate pre/power or an integrated. I'll be driving Enzo XL's in a smallish room (17x14) and listening levels are almost always <90db so 30-40 watts should be more than enough. My budget is fairly modest, $2-3k all in. I don't need phono or more than 3 inputs but I would like remote for volume at minimum. Quality build and sound is a priority as is ease of support/repairs if needed. The one unique requirement is that my preference would be for US made if at all possible. Obviously, this limits the options quite a bit but I'd like to see if I can make it work. If not, I'm willing to look at other options.
Here's what I've found so far
Preamps:
Mapletree Line 2CRM, $800 (not US but close)
LTA MZ2- $1595
Power Amps:
Tubes4hifi ST70-35w, $1300
Audio by Van Alstine Ultravalve-35w?, $1599
Quicksilver Mid Mono-40w each, $1995/pair
Integrated:
Rogue Cronus- 100w, $2395
Any others?
I'm open to any other options you may know of. Also, if there's any insight or positive experiences with matching pre/power amp please share. I'm new to tubes so I have a lot to learn.
Here's what I've found so far
Preamps:
Mapletree Line 2CRM, $800 (not US but close)
LTA MZ2- $1595
Power Amps:
Tubes4hifi ST70-35w, $1300
Audio by Van Alstine Ultravalve-35w?, $1599
Quicksilver Mid Mono-40w each, $1995/pair
Integrated:
Rogue Cronus- 100w, $2395
Any others?
I'm open to any other options you may know of. Also, if there's any insight or positive experiences with matching pre/power amp please share. I'm new to tubes so I have a lot to learn.
71 responses Add your response
The Rogue Cronus Magnum is an excellent choice if you like more dynamics. refined neutrality and low end impact. Small signal tube updates are a must IMHO but not expensive to realize a big sonic upgrade. The Raven Audio Nighthawk is not as powerful as the Rogue amp but will sound better out of the box- more refined and transparent and will not need tube updates. |
Aric, I have no problem hearing the difference. I do agree that power supplies have a tremendous affect on the sound. I do have issues with ascribing sonics to the wrong attributes. Tell me, what is the phase response of the the neon tube? Some chip regulators have terrible phase response. Others are quite good. Some can be improved dramatically. All regulators interact with the powered circuit and program. Power supplies are however one of the most misunderstood and neglected areas, especially by tinkerers who lack the requisite tools to properly analyze dynamic performance. |
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A tube rectifier is smoother than diodes as there’s no diode switching occurringAric, please provide measurements that show SS diode noise in a tube amplifier output. Tube rectifiers have a sound that some enjoy. Others think it mushy. Diode switching noise is around 12MHz and tanked in the filter caps. Tube rectifiers have slower transient response and sag voltage when called upon for more current. Many power amps with tube rectifiers should have two. |
@hilde45 More tubes are used for the power supply in my preamps, being both tube rectified and tube regulated- the two 12A_7 tubes do the stage amplification and buffer job. A tube rectifier is smoother than diodes as there's no diode switching occurring, and instead of using an IC-based "chip" regulator, I use gas-charged neon tubes which were used in lab equipment before solid state was invented. The 5U4GB rectifier will last a good long time (up to 5 years for the NOS tubes) as they're only being used at about 5% of their capacity. The same goes for the regulators, but regulators are a cheaper tube, so they may fail after a couple of years respectively. All of this helps provide a very organic and smooth sounding power supply, and in tube-based gear, all of this is audible as the signal rides on the high voltage supply. Typically good NOS rectifiers run $10-$15 and the OD3 regulators are about the same per pair. Best regards, Aric |
Aric Audio looks really excellent to my eye. Question for the tube people here -- my tube preamp has two 12AX7 tubes. These Arics have many more tubes. Can you tell me why someone might prefer a preamp with two vs. more than two tubes? If the OP is considering the costs of tube replacement, that might bear on the OP's question. It's certainly something I'm curious about. @mesch , others, any thoughts? |
There is a used Cary CADSEI 300 listed on audiogon right now. I'm using one of these 15 watt SET integrated amps to drive Wilson Sasha 2's, and it's wonderful. 3 inputs and a volume only remote. I sold on a more expensive tube preamp and ss amp combo because I loved the SET midrange, particularly on vocals. And personally I don't feel that I sacrificed anything in the bass reproduction. |
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I've got some reading to do now. I'm interested in Decware except I'm wondering if the amps in my range (Torii Jr, Zen Triode primarily) would have enough power. That's really the only thing holding me back from these lower powered amps. We sit ~9ft from the XL's and they have ~90db sensitivity. It looks like for typical listening levels, 80dbs or so, I'd be fine as only a couple watts are needed. It's when the level is higher (mostly peak, not continuous) that I'm wondering about how the lower powered amps will do. What kind of practical headroom does a well done tube amp have? I see claims that "tube watts are different than solid state watts" but is it really a matter of the power supply? |
The tubes4hifi pieces are all available as kits. They really aren't that hard to build. Tubes4hifi also provides excellent support for builders. For about $2200, you could easily afford their best preamp, the SP14 and the ST120 (60 wpc) power amp. $3000 would get you both fully assembled and tested. |
I’d avoid the Tubes4HiFi/VTA like CoViD-19. Tubes4HiFi/VTA products are poorly designed to be as cheap as possible. I bought a factory built pair of the M-125 monoblocks. Factory built, the absolute worst assembly of any tube amp owned in over 50 years. They come nowhere close meeting the claimed specs. see http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/VTA_M-125.php. IMO, the designs suffers from fatal flaws [e.g. un-compensated LM334 causes gain to vary slightly between channels over about 10 minutes after an inordinately long warm up] and poor gain structure choices. They are marginally stable. Most will not have issues, but some... see https://i.postimg.cc/gcKSXW7f/Num1-Unstable.png in https://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t4217p50-m-125-build#42336 for an example. They can be made to work properly for very little extra work. Smilin’ Big Bob called me an Audio Zealot, banned my DTAF account and deleted my posts. People from all over the world have contacted me with similar issues with both their amplifiers and lack of support from Messrs. Latino & Mottram. BTW, ignore all tube rolling advice. Just as amplifiers sound different in different systems, so to with tubes. Tubes vary greatly, not only from brand to brand, but from tube to tube and over time. |
Schitt Freya +, $899US https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-1 Designed and made in the USA. Mike Moffat and Jason Stoddard know a thing or three. |
Look at Bob Carver Crimson 275s. 75 wpc stereo tube amp made in USA with point to point wiring and some Carver tweeks that run tubes cool. They are A/B push/pull with feedback. They come with a 10 year tube warranty. A lot of high-enders poo poo Bob Carver, but he's an electrical genius and his current offerings are made here. I have his Raven 350 monoblocks and they sound great. If you want to really get the ultimate tube sound and go the SET route, consider Decware, also made in US and a little higher endish, but affordable, and money back trials available, as with Raven audio: https://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html |