2019 300B tubes that are worth the money?

This here is the Analog Forum.

Holy resurrected dead thread, Batman!

@wfowenmd ”I too urge caution in purchasing Sophia 300b tubes. They failed prematurely, but the warranty was honored. I sold the replacements immediately. BTW, they were no sonic substitute for WE originals from >50 yrs ago by date code. I am trying to minimize the use on the WE. At true AARP-age, the WE may outlive me.”

 

I just acquired an early Tektron TK Two 2A3/50S-i 300b-based SET. Sounds amazing. The tubes it came with was a WW2-period RCA 5Z3 rectifier, a pair of Sovtek 6SN7 drivers and I popped in a pair of 1943-ish Sylvania 6SN7 then 6F8G from the same decade.

The power tubes? Sophia 300b, just plain Jane 300b’s with factory test cards dated June 2002. I have the amp driving a pair of new - 2023 - Klipsch Heresy IV’s - and have played it for several days now, listening to vinyl favorites picking out details of tracks like Michael Hedges’ Aerial Boundaries I never knew were there. So Clarity, soundstage depth, instrument placement all boosted over the Willsenton R8 I’d been using and modifying this past year. BASS presence was so good I didn’t have to reconnect my subwoofer. Glad I got this, I think it’s worth the investment.

Now to invest in some tubes.

At true “AMAC”/SSA age, I suspect even these lowly Sophia’s might outlive me but I’m looking at either a pair of WE 300b or EML 300b XLS tubes, both of which have 5 year warranties I’ll likely surpass.

I did some quick arithmetic and came up with a rough number of playing hours/years, say, 4 hours a day on average for 300 days a year makes that 40,000 hours a 33+ year investment. Who knows, I may be around that long too.

I’m reminded of that Edison light bulb in a firehouse somewhere in the northeast that has been burning steadily since 1904.

 

Back to the reviews/hunt, I’ll likely flip a coin, the reviews seeming to run about 50:50 leaning towards the WE 300b, and buying products made new here in America is strong.

https://flic.kr/p/2oZ86Tf

I sold my DHT preamp so I now have a pair of Elrog 300B and a pair of KR T-100 tubes laying around if anyone is interested.

The most solid 300b tube in my experience is the EAT. I have the Takatsuki as well, good sound but less solid construction. The EAT tubes are not well known but highly recommended

I’ve WE 300b tubes manufactured Q4 from 1948 and Elrog 300b (2nd generation). The Elrog is as good as the WE, but a different flavor: more air around instruments and less deep sound stage. My preference varies based on the how the album is recorded. The Elrog can be bright for some. I’d spend my $1000 on a sub, MC cartridge, or room treatments. Good luck.

I have TJ mesh plates 300B. Very nice tubes. Good value for money. I also have EML 300B Mesh plates that is noticeably better especially in term of refining.

My amplifier has only ~6 Watt output, so mesh plate 300B power rating works.

Does anybody has experience with EML 300B Mesh plate? How are they compared to other 300B?

I recently got the new Georgia-made Western Electrics for my Eddie Current Studio B amp, and they sound awesome - another category altogether from the JJ's I'd been using. Could I find tubes that were as good or even better than the WE's for less money? Most likely. Am I going to waste any time being concerned about it? Nope. I've spent my money, I've got my tubes, and I am very happy with them! 

can someone tell me why Voxativ has their Pi speaker listed at 90 db sens.. when the Driver is 96db sens

 

 

but the midrange is magical with Voxatix speakers

 

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I just listened to 2 YT uploads on the Vox Pi. Honestly, I dont like the mids in this speaker. Its too forward * loud* in certain fq peaks. See this is why I draw my limit on sens at 95db, not a single db higher.  When a FR driver passes the 95db mark, the speaker gets into trouble with certain cds/fq peaking. This YT video might be yours. I am not sure

I hold the belief the Davidlouis VX8 and VX 6 are the 2 FR speakers to beat. 

 

 

@nascimento1958 Not first issue of reliability I've seen with Takatsuki, part of reason I didn't go with them.

 

Regardless of whether amp or tube at fault, I simply don't understand why so many of these tube manufacturers can't produce robust tubes. It seems like EML and WE have produced robust tubes, so it can be done.

 

Psvane Acme continue to impress, nearing 90 hours, we'll see as to reliability.

I love the sound of my Airtight ATM 300, with Takatsuki 300B, but unfortunately one unit died before completing 1000hs of use! 🤨

I've been desiring 300B upgrade for going on year, unable to decide due to observations of costs and benefits for each and every variant. Finally threw the dart and came up with Psvane Acme, thus far so superior to prior Shuguang Black Treasure regret not doing this long ago. I have yet to see negative review of Acme based on sq, only on reliability, same as I see for Takatsuki.

 

In regard to reliability, durability, tubes may not always be at fault. Some amp manufacturers run tubes at higher plate voltage than these tubes designed for, responsibility for short tube life needs to be placed on amp manufacturers. One should measure or insist on plate voltage specs prior to amp purchase.

+2 on Takatsuki. Rarely mentioned but superbly robust and powerful: EAT.

How long you had these for mglik?
 

++++1 On Takasuki. parts Connexion in Canada sells them for a hundred less for $1300. When I got mine I replaced Psvane Princess. I feel that the Taks were the best purchase ever!

I've had the new Western Electric 300b tubes on my Cayin HA-300 for 6 months, which is just a bit over at $1500, and I think it's worth having. My previous Psvane ACME 300b had one tube that just blew after 1 1/4 years, making it out of warranty.

The WE300b has 5 year warranty which gives me peace of mind. Now on to the sound quality. The Psvane ACME has a bit more air and openess up top, but the WE300b wins out on the liquid and beautifully lush mids and more textured body in the midbass and bass. The ACME has the bass extension, but I did find it a bit thinner than I'd like, where the WE300b feels more impactful without sounding slow. Both have excellent soundstage and instrument separation.

Both tubes needed at least 100 hours to sound really good, and around 200 hours to sound amazing. I feel like I'm rediscovering new and old music again now that my WE300b have reached its peak performance!

My chain is as follows:Custom PC --> Sablon 2020 Panatela Reserva Elite powered USB Cable --> Chord HUGO TT2 --> Morrow Audio MA6 XLR Cable with Furutech CF-602F and 601M Rhodium XLR ends --> Cayin HA-300 DHT 300b Tube Amp (Western Electric 300b + Sylvania 6SN7 3-hole Bad Boy tubes) --> PlusSound X6 balanced cable with gold-plated copper wires and Furutech miniXLR & 4-pin XLR terminations --> Audeze LCD-3 Fazor headphone. PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3 + Audioquest Thunder 2m power cable for power regeneration.

 

+1 on Takatsuki 300B

It comes down to your values. I replaced the OEM tubes in my Woo WA5. The difference was very profound. Tubes like Sophia offer an intermediate step up. If you want the best sound your system is capable of, then the Takatsuki are the way to go. But the level of difference will also depend on the rest of your system. If you have a very highly resolving system, the difference will be profound… if not then it will be less.

 

Also, what improvements would you get elsewhere if you applied $2,000. What is value of $2K to you? I have many interconnects worth more than that… pretty much a no brained for me. They sound glorious.

The fact you are thinking 0f putting some more money into a cartridge… makes me think perhaps you should stick with what you have and take a hard look at your overall system. Maybe read Robert Harleys book on High end Audio and consider the whole system. This might inspire other changes first… or not.

JJ's are pretty good value for money - I much preferred them to Genelex Gold Lions at about the same price. I decided to go for broke, though, and ordered a set of new Western Electric 300B's made at their new plant in Georgia; should be showing up in a couple of days! 

I sell a decent number of Sophia tubes.  In that time, I have had one 274B fail.  It was under warranty and replaced within a few days.  The only thing they asked (KR and Emission Labs ask the same) is that the tube be returned so they can test it.  

I have had exactly one tube fail from each of the three companies I mostly sell (KR, Sophia and Emission Labs) and all three replacements occurred quickly and without issue.  

I have not seen Sophia have a higher failure rate than the European counterparts but, I also have never sold any of the tubes that they used to source from TJ Full Music.  They have shifted suppliers and I believe the net result is a much lower failure rate.  

I agree, avoid Sophia, also had a bad experience with them.

@argonsteele Thanks for the tip and review of the PSVane WE 300B replicas. I'm going to try a pair; can't go wrong at that price.

Add me to the list of audiophiles warning of reliability concerns with Sophia 300B tubes. Mine failed <3 months in Sophia’s monoblock amps. Their customer service was disappointing. In sonic comparison to my set of vintage WE 300B tubes (1930’s manufacture), the Sophia’s were good but not great. Original WE are a bit thin in the bass, but the midrange is magical with Voxatix speakers, Rhythmic subs,  and Colibri cartridge. Sophia’s bass was stronger but not enough to recommend them with their reliability issues and unique approach to accountability. My amps are one off monblocks built in So. Korea,

Hi Gary,
Did the KR balloon 300b replace your Takatsuki or are they an alternative change of pace pair?
Charles 

I have to agree with @gsm18439 (Gary).  Rachel at Grant Fidelity has been a very reliable source for  purchasing  the higher end Chinese tubes. She stands behind what she sells. I believe that she now carries the Chinese Linlai brand.

I use the Psvane Replica 101d DHT tubes (Probably 6 or 7 years by now) in my Line stage and they've been durable and dependable.  I hope the same is true for their W.E.Replica 300b.

I use the EML XLS in my 300b SET mono blocks and they are exceptionally robust and reliable. I pretty sure their sonic character is different from the W.E.Replica 300b. Reported life expectancy of the EML XLS is 40,000 hours.  Mine test new after about  6 years of very regular use.
Charles 

I have been using KR300b balloons for a couple of years with no issues whatsoever. Another NA source is Grant Fidelity in Canada - highly reliable. Has anyone tried the Audio Note 4300e?

well as the OP I thought I'd chime in with an update on my 300b status as this thread has somehow stayed alive and relevant.  As I stated previously, I ended up with a (supposedly) lightly used pair of KR tubes that I bought for $500 and was very happy with the sound.  But.... a few months ago one of the tubes slowly began to fail  (started randomly getting very soft and cutting out).  It was very hard and disappointing for me to admit the tube was going bad.  And then it was completely gone.  So I went back to my TJ/full music cheapos and was in anguish shopping and researching and rereading all the 300B reviews and trying to prepare myself for spending close to $1000 on a new pair of something.  Make a long story short, I settled on the PSVane Western Electric replicas and ordered through a somewhat dubious looking Chinese website where I paid only $600 (hifipartstore.com, if you are interested).  That seemed like a pretty good deal and the reviews I read seemed mostly very positive.  Took two weeks to arrive and I put them in yesterday... and.... I AM BLOWN AWAY!  My system sounds better than ever, the soundstage is enormous, the tone is warm and deep and detailed, the separation is fantastic.  Last night I couldn't stop listening to vinyl and heard stuff in old Fleetwood Mac that I'd never heard before!  I liked the KR tubes quite well, but without doing an A/B comparison I feel the PSVane WE 300B is superior.  Hopefully they will last awhile, but for now I am a very happy customer.  Cheers and good luck to you all in your search for audio nirvana.   

So sadly, after a year and 2 months, the Psvane Acme 300b tubes on the right channel of my Cayin Ha-300 amp started clicking and emitting white flashes. No other sound coming.
I swapped out those tubes for the stock tj full music and now my right channel is about - 20 dB lower, regardless if if swapp around the 300b tubes, the 6sn7 tubes, or the 22de4 rectifier tubes around. 

Amp is only 1 year 3 months old. Tubes bought from chi-fi audio. So aside from having to get my amp fixed (someone said it could be the Cathode resistor damaged by the voltage spike of the bad Acme 300b), I now have to buy new 300b tubes.

So is there a better place to buy them in North America? I absolutely love the sound of the Acme 300b, but are there other similar fast and open sounding 300b tubes I should get instead? 

I too urge caution in purchasing Sophia 300b tubes. They failed prematurely, but the warranty was honored. I sold the replacements immediately. BTW, they were no sonic substitute for WE originals from >50 yrs ago by date code. I am trying to minimize the use on the WE. At true AARP-age, the WE may outlive me.

Mactone MH 300b stereo amps with factory supplied Electro - Harmonix tubes. 
The amp has been in use for over a month. It is a 22 w push pull class AB design, not single ended. And they are driving Eminent Technology LFT-8b’s ( 83 dB ) with amazing ease. I don’t know if the selection of 300b’s are less critical in a push - pull configuration than SET. However, I am in no hurry to try new tubes. And I am enjoying very  the amount of information provided here regarding the various 300b’s.

I am using the Psvane Acme Supreme 300B tubes in my Cary Audio Founders Edition 211 FE amps and they are biased to 100ma. They are the best sounding 300B tubes I have used to date. Prior to those, I was using a couple different pairs of the more expensive  Shuguang tubes with good results.

Let's keep this thread active, but increase it's usability. Please specify what equipment you are using your 300b in. And any details (if available) about bias, driver tubes, etc. Not trying to get too complicated, but I think these details might be relevant to our discussion.

Thanks,
Markus

A word of warning if I may:

the SQ of different 300b tubes is dependent on the rectifier tube used: on my Wavac EC-300b when I switch from the EAT300b to the Takatsuki, I equally switch from Svetlana Winged-C 6L6 GC to Tungsol KT66. It gives the Takatsukis a rounded, more bass sound whereas the Svetlanas lead to an over-emphsized treble. Conversely on the EATs the Tungsols sound slightly sluggish and thick.
Tube rolling is a complex subject but well worthwhile.

On a preamp and please don't laugh the EH 300B sound is incredible

@davidaaa,

pls update as they settle in. I am somewhat surprised at your finding since the Audionote tubes are actually rather good.

Tonmy, FWIW, the 300B is not suited to operate well in an OTL amplifier like the Transcendent or Futterman or Atmasphere.

I replaced my Psvane Princes 300Bs with Takasuki. Night and day!

Just received my matched pair of WE300B reissue.  They sound fantastic out if the box.  Expect changes as they ‘burn in’. These are in an Audionote P3 and replaced the original audionote tubes which sounded great as well but my wife prefers the WE’s which sound more expanse at this point and of course there is the fact these are a legend.  

I have heard the WE 300b reissue are not that great, and that even the Psvane WE300B is actually better, too.

I definitely recommend the Psvane ACME Supreme 300b, though!

I used WE 300B ~2006 reissue and TJ 300B Mesh Plate.
I use 300B EML Mesh Plate now. They are great much better than previous two.
For my taste, TJ 300B Mesh Plate is better then WE reissue. 

Hi @mglik ,
What kind of 300B did you use before?
Regards,
Alex.

+1 on Takayuki 300B
Second only to NOS WE that are now $3k each!!Takasukis best price is from Parts Connexion in Canada $1499/pair.
Best purchase I ever made. They transformed my amp.

I had the Cary 300SEI for a while, in fact two incarnations of it. In the period of ownership, I puchased WE 300Bs, labelled 9738 so I think 1997 vintage.  I also had the Sophia Princess, at almost 1000USD a pair with boxes. To my ears, neither were night and day better than the stock Cary tubes (Shuguang?). I sold the Sophias for 1/4 new price, still have the WEs if anyone is interested. I have moved on to other amps.

If you're listening to output transformers and resistor-based gain controls,, whatever toobs you use, top KR or WE, you're listening to more or less.. distortion, X 2!  Autoformer (Intact Audio), or TVC Django  or LED (Tortuga), for non-resistor gain and... no output transformers, (Transcendent Sound etc),  is the way to go.

@analogluvr  $585 - 755

http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/emission-labs.html

How much are they?

Emission Lab 300B 

http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B.html  

Worth the money? 

Yes Sophia are just rebranded TJ tubes and have a bad rap for reliability. I have only had a few tubes fail in my audio life and they have all been Sophia/TJ. I also have numerous friends that have had problems with Sophia 300B.  Buyer beware. 

I believe Sophia Tubes are made by TJ Fullmusic and years ago it may have been the case that the cherry picked. Now, Sophia has a bunch of products that are exclusive to Sophia that I can’t buy directly from TJ and no one else will have.  Sophia tubes are exceptional.  

I have reached out to TJ to make a purchase - the issue is you need to make a large purchase and I am waiting for my traffic for tubes to build before I commit to that much inventory.

Aren't Sophia tubes just rebranded TJ Full Music tubes in which Sophia claims to cherry pick the best for the US market?

There are awesome and for $100 more the Carbon Plates are even better.  Sophia makes awesome tubes for the money.  

https://artaudio.us/collections/sophia-electric/products/sophia-electric-princess-300b-mesh-plate-tubes

My previous tube mono blocks used the 6SN7 as drivers and I used vintage Syvania and RCA. They were early to mid 1950s. The 6EM7 driver (1950s) and Mullard rectifier (early 1960s) tubes in my current 300b SET are both vintage and very good. I personally would not paint with a broad brush in regard to vintage tubes. There’s a wide spectrum of performance among them and all are not superior to current production tubes. Multiple factors to consider.
Many current production 300b are available and some are simply superb. Gary (gsm18439) made this observation in a post above and he’s absolutely right. Takatsuki, Elrog,KR,EML etc. can certainly hold their own in terms of sound quality and conveying musical beauty and truth..