....... and all manufactured wire is directional.
Untrue, to the extent there is any audible distinction a human can detect with the naked ear.
why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable
I have tried expensive cables and one's moderately priced. I would say there were some differences but I can't actually say the expensive cables were better. IMHO I believe a lot of people buy expensive cables because they don't actual trust their ears and are afraid of making a mistake. They figure the expensive cables are better for the fact they cost more. If you have a difference of opinion or share the same thoughts, I would like to hear about it.
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Well, obviously if your hearing isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, you know, if you’re 105 years old or whatever, and/or your system is not (rpt not) revealing enough and/or has at least one or two errors in it and/or you don’t follow proper protocol for cable evaluation, such as using fully broken in cables, the chances are excellent you won’t hear much, if anything. If in fact any cable evaluation was actually performed which it probably wasn’t. Same as it always was, a lot of who shot John. |
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gdhal" and all manufactured wire is directional. "Untrue, to the extent there is any audible distinction a human can detect with the naked ear." Do you have any proof of this gdhal or is this your "gut feeling" based on a deeply held intuition or religious belief or is this based on your understanding of what you perceive to be the "science" surrounding the claim of directionality or do you have other concrete verifiable meaningful repeatable studies to share with us or this is simply none other a solitary passing remark you make just to weigh in on a this topic of legitimate conversation? |
Well.....garden hoses (and especially fire hoses) are directional for sure. Makes me crazy when the manufacturer (who doesn’t believe in directionality) puts the male and female connectors on the wrong end and I have to change them to get proper pressure and flow. The difference is startling. Ever been pumping gas and notice that the flow is slow? Yep. The gas delivery hose was mounted backwards. You get more fuel, faster and for less money, when the hose is mounted in the correct direction. |
dynaquest4"Ever been pumping gas and notice that the flow is slow? Yep. The gas delivery hose was mounted backwards. You get more fuel, faster and for less money, when the hose is mounted in the correct direction." There is not much in common between an audio signal and gasoline but I guess you think you are being funny but in fact by avoiding the actual evidence at hand you are making yourself to appear probably more ignorant that you are in reality which is unfortunate for you. |
gdhal"You continue to place the onus of proof on the wrong party. I have provided ample opportunity for those who state the impossible to demonstrate... I do not understand this does not make sense you have made a very specific claim here you stated wire is not directional but then you want me to proof what you claim that is very odd! As for your "opportunity to demonstrate" I do not understand that either you have made a claim how will I demonstrate you're claim that is for you to do? |
shadorne"The onus of proof is on those with wild ridiculous claims" I would agree to a point and given that the cable market for Music Reproduction Systems is sizeable and so many contributors to this forum have remarked about the various sonic improvements to be derived from such cables it would seem that the " wild ridiculous claims" would in truth emmanate from the very few people on this board who keep raising they're objections that these cables make any difference at all within properly functioning Music Reproduction Systems the "onus" would be on you. However on the other hand I think no one here is obligated to prove anything to anybody and that it would be best if we each expressed the results of our own first hand experiences with matters related to Music Reproduction Systems and not to demand from others that they do research for ourselves. However what is happening is that these few who claim it all sounds the same then ask the rest of us to proof they're case which makes no sense and then they call us delusional or snakeoil salesman! It is a crazy world here on Audiogon where we cannot discuss what we hear without being subjected to personal attacks and even some of the attackers here justify the in the name of "science." |
If it all sounded the same, we'd have stopped with Edison's phonograph. Reductio ad absurdum. The salient point is that everything interacts. To deny otherwise is counterintuitive. Some are more sensitive to some interactions than others. Some need to [and can afford to] drive the newest/flashiest/everything-est and others are content to just have really good sound. Soto voce: The problems here are "10,000 posters" who prattle on repeatedly with no substantiated examples or proof and those who steadfastly maintain "does not happen with my level of equipment" |
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everyone knows some have the ability to see fine print others cannot. everyone knows some can taste ingredients others can’t detect. some minds solve puzzles faster than others. there are varying levels of skill and ability in all endeavors . if you have an ability I do not possess I will not declare you wrong. eyes, noses, tongues, minds, hands, feet, and hearts come in varying capabilities. why would anyone purport all ears to function identically? |
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Except, Elizabeth, the "subtle" (positive) changes that exotic cables may or may not be able to achieve, are reported as "jawdropping," dramatic," "night and day," etc. If switching out a cable can make those kinds of improvements, you would have had to have been previously using metallic thread. Additionally, cables shouldn't introduce anything into the music program, they should only eliminate outside interferences. Anything else you "hear" after switching cables, IMO, is voodoo magic. |
dynaquest4 ... the "subtle" (positive) changes that exotic cables may or may not be able to achieve, are reported as "jawdropping," dramatic," "night and day," etc. If switching out a cable can make those kinds of improvements, you would have had to have been previously using metallic thread.Not exactly. What you're describing are subjective impressions, so naturally they will vary from person to person. I've eaten burritos that I thought were much too hot, yet my wife thought they were just hot enough. Get it? |
Hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole. Sellers are at pains to magnify whatever differences/improvements their 1K product has over the standard 50-buck special. Listeners are so excited when they actually hear any difference, whether it's genuinely an "improvement" or not, that they exaggerate the changes that they hear. And so it spirals onward. |
gdhal"It’s oft times quite humorous and entertaining to read opinions about so called exotic cables that second guess what people who actually have experience with them say. What the ding dong?Except the "experience" cannot be reliably duplicated when any kind of objective test is brought to bear." Actually that is completely false and a untruth that some here like to repeat ad infinitum in the hope that with sufficient repitition the untruth will be accepted as truth however I will say in the defense of those who promote this untruth I believe many actually believe it and have either done no testing or insufficient testing to assert they're claim with any genuine authority but of course those who have actually undertaken the testing know much better! |
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Gdhal, "Untrue, to the extent there is any audible distinction a human can detect with the naked ear." This is not true there is research to suggest that while our ears may not have responses noted in the brain of anything over 16k Hz, in noting the pleasure center of the brain on high fidelity recording when the highs above 16k are removed pleasure drops sharply. Apparently there are other means by which the brain becomes aware. But in reality no one is obligated to prove they hear differences in cables. You never are asked to prove that you don't hear a difference. |
Looks like gdhal is playing his silly little game again. Trolling for dollars with fake blind test scam.On the contrary. It looks like certain members create more than one user id. 😎 EDIT: And Geoff, of course you could simply admit you’re wrong. That all wire isn’t directional. And, even if a manufacturer creates a wire intended to be directional, it doesn’t mean any audible difference can be heard with the naked ear. This way, by your admission, we can all begin to think clearly and not be concerned about whether or not ones anatomy is tough. |
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The old luxury car analogy again . Poll 100 random people on the street with the question why does a Rolls Royce cost more than a KIA . You will get a answer from everyone . Show them a picture of a $100 speaker cable and a picture of a $30,000 speaker cable and ask them why one costs more than the other . They will not have an answer . Tell them "your" reason why you think there is a price difference and they will look at you like you are crazy . |
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Photons don’t like traveling against the grain. The drawing of wire distorts the metals crystals near the surface, where most of the signal travels. Haven’t you ever seen the surface of copper wire under a microscope? If you shine a flashlight down a porcupine’s back the light will be less distorted when shined in the direction of the quills. See? That wasn’t so hard. Mystery solved! Whew! 😛 |
gdhal What I stated is untrue is Geoff's statement that all manufactured wire is directional.Why prove it offline? Why not submit your "proof" to the scrutiny of the group? |
