why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable

I read an article some few years ago that it blind A/B testing of mainstream (cheap) interconnects versus very expensive interconnects, no listener could tell the difference.  My belief is that you can build anything to a basic standard and if you package it right and price it over the top, not only will people buy it, they will actually hear a (better) difference.  This is called the "audio placebo effect."   If you pay more for aomething, you will expect a better performance...and your brain will tell you it is, in fact, better.  Happens all the time.  The majority of the responders to this post are testimony to that concept.

Stringreen said: "...or expensive watches..."

That reminded me of when my brother-in-law bought a Rolex and was touting how great it was.  I think it was a one of the cheaper models and about couple grand.  Bottom line is that a watch is for timekeeping and my Seiko kept time just as well as his.  What he really got for his money, I guess, was a hunk of gold jewelry that said he was successful.  I'm thinking that people who, for example, buy a used pair of "Tara Labs Omega Gold" speaker cables for $7000.00 (http://www.tmraudio.com/product/xx-55) are like my brother-in-law.  They are more concerned about what "having" those cables says about them than any real improvement in speaker performance.  I have a set of pristine B&W Nautilus 803's.  I have to chuckle because this used pair of cables cost twice what my used speakers cost.

I think there are three problems with this debate.

1. No one here is going to change anyone's mind
2. Anyone who spent hundreds or thousands of $$$ on cables/interconnects is NEVER going to admit he may have overspent or made a mistake or suggest that maybe what differences do occur with expensive cables were clearly not worth the money.
3. The "placebo effect" is real yet completely ignored...i.e..  "if it is supposed to sound better, it will." 

Frankly...I like the quote from this tester who himself uses "upgraded" cables:

" I use Analysis Plus, AudioQuest, XLO, and Zu Audio cables in my home system," he writes. "Does this mean you should spend more on speaker cables? Not really. Which cables offer the "best" sound for your system (and to your ears) is impossible to predict and has nothing to do with price. An expensive cable might sound worse on your system than cheap cable. Or it might sound better.

"The important thing to remember is that even if it does sound better, it's such a minuscule improvement that pretty much anything else you can do will have a greater effect on the sound. Moving the speakers, for example, or getting a different DAC, or a different receiver. Heck, even getting a bookcase and some curtains will do more to affect the sound than new speaker cable."

Above quote from: Steve Guttenberg who has  worked as a high-end audio salesman, and as a record producer. Steve currently reviews audio products for CNET and works as a freelance writer for Home Theater, Inner Fidelity, Tone Audio, and Stereophile.

From recent posts, it seems like many of the responders are "in the business" of selling audio equipment; that would include relatively expensive cables/wire/interconnects.  I can't help but believe there HAS to be bias in their expressed opinions.

"Build it and they will come."  "Make cables at outrageous prices and they will buy."  

I completely agree!  Note that if you HAVE spent mega-bucks on interconnects or speaker cables, there is not a chance in hell that you (on this forum) would EVER change you mind that THAT purchase must have made your system sound better - even if you cannot hear it.  It is called the audio placebo effect.  If you put out the big-bucks on cables, a better sub a DAC or just about any component, once you get it installed your system WILL sound better.  It is proof positive that, on some products, if you overcharge you will sell more to the duped masses.

Some time ago, I replaced the Kimber (speaker) cables that came with a slightly used pair of B&W 803's with a 10 dollar set of Monoprice cables.  I had no way to do a "blind" A/B test but after I switched them out those 803's continued to sweetly sing...no difference that I could tell.

A BIG +1 for oldguide.  Couldn't have said it better myself. 

I chuckle at anyone who would take someone's claim that such and such a cable "sounds better" as even minor evidence of a cable's ability to make an audio signal improve, or be less effected by negative outside influences, while on it's way to loudspeakers.

Dang right!  Gag all people who disagree!

teo is either a scientist or a lawyer.  Both, when writing, are often hard to understand. 😁

I always look for better for less.  That often comes from, with the exception of clothes and groceries, buying a pre-owned (yes used) product. 

A couple precepts, among others, keep me out of trouble...one is that I typically have a price I will not exceed.  Second is that I always consider and understand the definition of value: "quality divided by price = value." 

In other words for products of like quality (durability, performance, appearance, etc), the one with the lowest cost represents the best value.  Everybody understands that but many don't care....or don't need to care...or don't want to care.  

Wanting something badly and being able to purchase it doesn't change it's value relative to other products.  Nor does it make it a wise purchase when overpriced and of questionable performance.

Right, cleeds, I forgot to mention that there are consumers who  blindly (or is that double-blindly) use a product's price as a measure of the product's quality.  In which case, my equation would be invalid for them.

cleeds....seems like you are just in a mood to argue.  I don't have the interest or time.  For almost all purchases, my equation is accurate.  End of my participation in this issue.

Here now is clearthink using this forum to flaunt his economic status (as he sees it) and making assumptions about mine which, besides being none of his business, are wrong.  

The value concept applies regardless of the consumer....it is not about the consumer about the product.  It is a simple concept and need not be debated.  Unless debate is your only pastime.

Again....muddled point.  Service after the sale, lunch, warranty, free loaner, etc. are all part of the "quality" component of the equation.  Just like discount, kickback, freebies, etc. would all be part of the price component.

A 2018 Audi without warranty is not the same quality product as an identical car with one. 

I'm telling you, the reason they are making it so complex (when it isn't) is because they must find a reason to disagree.

chrshanl37:  I suspect part of my apparent inability to gain acceptance from some to my very simplistic (but logical and correct) price/quality/value relationship is that these guys know me from other forum threads and will (likely) disagree strongly with me regardless of what I present or opine.

Or it might be that if they accept there is a value relationship between quality and price, they might, then, have to accept that they have made some pretty questionable choices in audio accessories.

cleeds says: "There is actually a whole industry base on high-end cables - pick up any audio magazine and you'll see the expensive ads. "

Yep....and now you know why they cost so much.  And you still buy them!

I think exotic/expensive audio cables and the misleading advertising about them have not gotten much (legal) attention because so few people actually buy them. That is because, in my opinion, few believe the hype and even fewer want to spend more money than makes sense for system connects.

Quite frankly, over-priced audio cables are of so little importance, in the scheme of things, and only used by the few that are unable to readily identify the marketing as mere misleading hype, they don’t really pose a "truth in advertising" threat to the masses.

Oh...and watch this...🍔🍟🏈🎯🥇 😋 I’m so cool!

"Playing the troll card." What is done when one finds a post online that disagrees with his opinion and is incapable of intelligently countering that post with an appropriate argument.

No problem, Geoff!  Just doing my part to help you make your 10,000 post record by the end of the summer.  The way you hawk every thread, that goal should require no additional effort.

Tell me, though, and not trying to be offensive here, what else do you do?

Thanks, Geoff.  Being you I knew you would be the first to chime in.

"Sounds real scientific."

Way more scientific than Joe Schmoe switching from $200 RCA connects to $1000 connects and reporting that the improvement was "awesome and unbelievable" and "the bottom end clarity was breathtakingly better."

Of those things mentioned by pokee1016, cables are least likely to make an improvement is audio quality...assuming good quality (proper length and resistance) cables are already being used.  Basic, good quality cables are not expensive.

@dave_b :

A forum that involves discussions with countering viewpoints is just that - not an "argument."  And please ...why do you think you are of such stature in this field or on this forum that you can tell us to "stop" having this discussion?

That is because....proper copper is all you need!

Forgive Geoff...when faced with serious questions he answers either with a question or sarcasm.  One thing for sure...he will say something.  No offense; that is just the way he is, bless his heart.

I’ve said this before somewhere on Audiogon but it applies to this thread…about WHY people buy expensive cable/wire when there is no reason for these “exotic” products to perform better than good quality cables of the proper length and resistance.

Likely the main reason is that this stuff looks really great if/when you can see it. Those proud of these accessories’ visual appeal, have their equipment well spread…giving the viewer opportunity to see how well equipped and connected the audiophile owner’s system is. When systems are referred to as “music reproduction devices” (or other pompous definitions), they are really proud of their stuff. I have no issue with buying anything for the looks as long as you have the honesty to say so. If I bought a Rolex, for example, I would never say I bought because it is such an accurate timepiece. If I put the optional rear wing on my Jag, I’d never try to get you to believe I drive fast enough to need or achieve the downforce. It, to me, just looks neat.

Another reason is that if it looks good and costs a lot, well….it’s gotta be good. A manufacturer can produce a cable of "exotic" design and beautiful appearance for, perhaps, $5 a foot. He can then choose to sell it for $10 per foot or $750 a foot. If it looks good enough, he might decide to market it as exceptionally high-end and sell it for the higher amount knowing that those with a higher disposable income, but no particular knowledge of basic acoustic science, will assume if it is priced at $750 it MUST be better and will, accordingly, sound better. Once the cables are changed out their eyes will widen and their jaws will drop at the amazing increase in sound stage, transparency, texture and openness the new cables provide. And….this actually is science...the field we know as psychology.

I have Kimber Kables going to my B&W’s. I love them because they really look cool. Got them free when I bought the speakers.

I'd rather end up my battle running out of ammo than showing up without any to start with.

Just trying to keep up with your sarcasm, my friend.  Hang up my spurs?  how original and "pithy."

Al...forgive me but your post makes little sense to me.  Sorry...know you meant well.

Elizabeth:  I can tell you are frustrated with this discussion; but I would suggest instead of resorting to referring to us as "freakin' idiots,” you instead, if it pains you so, click on the "unfollow" button on the top right hand corner of this page.  It is such a simple and quick remedy.

OK, Al, I'll give her a pass on that portion of her post.  Not that I think she is really concerned about my doing that.

Oops....standby willemj for being chastised for "Appealing to Authority!"

"But my speakers are invisible and the speaker end of my room is replaced by a three dimensional sound stage with instruments with all harmonics and finger sounds playing them and singers who breath and turn their heads. And all of these have precise locations on stages."

Hmmm....mine sounds like that I I have MonoPrice, free Kimbers and six WireWorld RCA connects I bought for 10 bucks.

Goeff said:

Even what’s his name knows what an Appeal to Authority is, which frankly is kind of shocking

"What's his name?"  Geoff....if you cannot remember my handle, please address me as Mister or Sir.

Not sure what THAT (above) meant...but what is important is that prolific Geoff got another post point on his way to 10,000 posts.  Go Goeff!!

Well.....garden hoses (and especially fire hoses) are directional for sure. Makes me crazy when the manufacturer (who doesn’t believe in directionality) puts the male and female connectors on the wrong end and I have to change them to get proper pressure and flow. The difference is startling.

Ever been pumping gas and notice that the flow is slow?  Yep.  The gas delivery hose was mounted backwards.  You get more fuel, faster and for less money, when the hose is mounted in the correct direction.

Because the brain can make you see, hear, feel, smell and taste things that do not exist.

Except, Elizabeth, the "subtle" (positive) changes that exotic cables may or may not be able to achieve, are reported as "jawdropping," dramatic," "night and day," etc.  If switching out a cable can make those kinds of improvements, you would have had to have been previously using metallic thread.

Additionally, cables shouldn't introduce anything into the music program, they should only eliminate outside interferences.  Anything else you "hear" after switching cables, IMO, is voodoo magic.

I might add that nobody ever asks why people buy expensive cars, wines, tvs, or steaks. What are you objective measures for these?

I ask my wife all the time why she buys expensive things?  🙂

@teo_audio

I had no idea you were so wise.

Writing a passage using clever words and phrases does not a wise man make.  Especially when said passage makes so little sense.

Goeff says: Sometimes tis best to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt.

So....you are calling me a fool.  When at a loss for something clever to say, you always resort to name calling.  MY being a fool (according to you) has nothing to do with the discussion here.

But, what the hell, you needed to say something to get your post-point in.  10,000 posts by the end of July.  We are all rooting for you, Geoff!!

Do you really think companies who manufacture an entire range of HDMI cables like Audioquest are perpetrating a hoax?

I keep telling you guys...not a hoax.  These fancy cables are relatively pricey to produce because they are made to look expensive.  Looking cool has value!  Sorta like wheels on a Jaguar...way more show than go...more form than function.  But of value nonetheless.

Just let's be honest; admit you buy them mostly for the looks.  If you cannot then you are being hoodwinked.  Or you want them so bad to sound "better," they magically do.

When all you can do is throw mud.. I think your arguments are finished. Time to throw in the towel dynaquest4!

Not throwing mud...making an opinion known. My opinion. You are also free to espouse an opinion. Try to limit the personal defamations if you can. This is common on this forum...defame the message AND the messenger.

And, BTW, I was saying something good about, in my opinion, a product of very poor value. Give me some credit! 😎

Agree!  Was wondering myself the necessity or your latest response. 

Do your research and DO NOT take recommendations from people who have already been swayed into spending too much money on exotic, overpriced, ineffective cables.  Accessory interconnects can only, if at all, provide very subtle improvements to audio listening and they are certainly NOT worth the ridiculous premium prices.  

Try to find, for example, any high end speaker manufacturer, who does not also manufacture interconnects, who will suggest that exotic, expensive are needed to enhance their speakers' performance.

I do not believe in the effectiveness of expensive, overpriced "wire."  I recently priced out  full stereo cable set up (minus power cables) of Nordhost's Odin line of cables.  If I remember correctly, the retail cost was $137,000.00.

Yes....they target fools with too much money.  Those who "can afford them" and don't have a clue, keep the scam alive.

Don't "phool" yourself.  People buy watches, cars, homes, furniture, clothes, audio speakers...hell, even pets for the looks and what it says about their financial status.  I get that.  Just don't try to slide by me that you buy $22,000.00 speaker wire for the audio performance.