Who Tried Power Conditioners Over The Years and No Longer Use Them Today, Any Why?

@coltrane1 

 

You are the lucky one out of a hundred or thousand. Sure wish that were true for the three places I have lived in the last 40 years.

50 years in this hobby. Never once used a power conditioner. Some feel they hear a difference. I don't. Money saved. KaChing!

I’ve used a Shunyata Triton V2, V3, and Typhon as well as the PS Audio Power Plant Premier and P10. Previous to that I had used a Furman voltage regulator/conditioner.

 

I no longer use any power conditioning in either of my 2 systems. I didn’t have power "problems" so ultimately, these products were just tweaks that changed the sound to me. Taking the cost of those products and putting it toward better sounding components and cables was a better use of time and energy for me.

High end power cords? I wholeheartedly agree, heavier is better. Beyond that; maybe, but... Read my "compromised hearing" explanation from my previous reply. 
 

I recall from another forum a member having "ah hah moment" from, he claimed,  bass response from upgrading from the stock removable 18 ga to an inexpensive 14 ga upgrade.  I plan to mod what gear I can to take advantage of this inexpensive, undeniable upgrade. Currently, of my system's 11 amps & subs only one of them has a removable PC. That 230VAC sub came to me needing some surgery to make it work. While I was at it was easy enough to install the EIC not to mention a generic 4' PC. 
 

My add'l $0.02

Tony

"Ignorance is bliss."

in a nutshell, unless your CERTAIN your power feed's voltage is a +/- under 5% 120VAC, I urge you to consider a conditioner w/voltage regulation. My APC H15 SAVED my previous pre/pro from my former* home's electrical system. Further I believe the H15 doing the same for my (Same brand) current pre/pro.
*rental on a grid close to a lot of businesses & a junior college.

Even today** I witness the "Trim***" LED frequently light up on the H15 for several hours at a stretch several times a week. Because of "compromised" hearing****, I won't swear it "greatly improved" the SQ, but I'm VERY confident it's protecting my system's delicate microprocessor-containing components from the above and the brief effects from AC, freezer, & refrigerator etc startups.

**4 1/2 years in a rual neighborhood. 
***circuitry activated when the line voltage exceeds 132VAC

****unprotected on tank ranges; 10th row seating at concerts; extended listening to insanely powered car audio systems - all when I was young & stupid 

 

Your system's electrical "sweet spot" is 120VAC +/- 5V. Continue "Unprotected" at your peril.

Tony  

 

 

 

Shunyata has a $2k device I had heard works very well.

Maybe one with less outlets would cost closer to $1,200

and they will come out with it.

 

The AQ Niagra device for about the same$ has many fans too.

 

Balanced Power Isolation is a process which also lowers

the noise floor but does not rob voltage. I am buying an older

one designed for home and Pro use. I do have dedicated 20amp

lines already but am told this will make further improvement.

Will advise in a couple weeks what I find.

Did anyone see Alvin’s latest Youtube video demoing the newest Denafrips

power conditioner? BIC500 model. $800 US as I recall.

Reason I mention it is that during the video

he uses a noise sensing tool to measure the improvement his machine makes.

This small handheld device looked like a $20 deal from Radio Shack.

It showed the noise level drop from 100 to 20. Now this could easily be staged

I know. But what was the device? I want one!

Yes, we all have different power and therefore power conditioning needs. Our neighborhood  has buried power cables, I have two direct lines... but alas a power conditioner makes a big difference.

The question to me now is the difference between having to condition your power after the wall outlet vs. the RF that your cables pick up after.

Reading through all this suggests to me that we all have different power cleaning needs depending on what comes into the house and our HiFi equipment choices.

In my case with dedicated 20 amp line, all top end C-J tube equipment and dCS front end, an AQ N5000 made no difference vs. a 20 yr old Shunyata Hydra 8.  Then I tried a new Shunyata Denali 2 with good result.  Still using the great AQ Hurricane cables.  The C-J class A amp still goes directly to the wall however.  One nice change was to to isolate all the digital power supplies, Roon Core etc. into a separate Transparent power strip, still pluged into the 20 amp outlet.  Now all is quiet and dynamic..

I think some of the difference in experience may be attributable to the quality of the "unconditioned" or dirty power. I don’t use any line conditioners on my main system except that the 10kVa isolation transformer on which the system depends has a surge protection board. And I have a basic, "whole house" surge protector.

I have used various aftermarket surge protector power conditioners over the years and though my experience may be dated, found that they all altered the sound. To the extent of throwing "baby out with bathwater" I concluded that the conditioners I tried at that time were compromising the sound, but I could see instances where a conditioner might improve the sound of the "dirty power."

PS> I listened to the system without the iso transformer for almost two months before it was installed, and though a little "bright" at first--burn in?- the addition of the iso transformer did not change the voice of the system. I think the infrastructure where  I am near downtown Austin is far newer than that which I had in NY metro. So, I’m not sure that there is a universal conclusion applicable to alll systems. What’s your power like out of the wall? And what can you do to improve the quality just using. basic best practices, without voodoo. That’s where I’d start, before adding any black boxes (of which I have plenty).

I didn't have the experience the OP asked about - rather I'm having the exact opposite experience. A couple months ago my PS Audio PowerPlant 15 quit initializing.  I didn't think I missed it that much but since I got it back on Tuesday I have not been able to stop listening. It sounds so so good - more space between instruments, better soundstage, fuller tones. 
 

PS Audio wasn't forthcoming about what was wrong with the unit but it was repaired under warranty. I was told it was "upgraded to that latest Rev “B1”" without further detail.  I won't be ditching my regenerator anytime soon. 
 

Matt

In this whole argument, no one talks of the quality of the power supply in the amp.  A well-designed power supply will do a lot of signal conditioning.

That would be me.

 

Although I do not live a condo type building and do have dedicated

power.

From what I can discern, AQuest Niagra and Shunyata are the top

contenders if you need one.

  It was eyebrow raising to read one article after another with Michael Fremer's power troubles in Stereophile. I wasn't at all surprised that he found what he did as technitians, electricians and more investigated his house power starting from the AC transformer supplying his house. And then there was the generator switch, or whatever.

  >>>> So,   after years of applauding different audio devices whether they be related to AC power or not, should we believe it?<<<< He had the worst case scenerio, maybe. I think that what I found before having my home rewired, my incoming AC replaced and much more still makes me wince.

 

  It is all like driving on bad roads with your new Farrari!

I used to work on electronics and daw 1st had what happens to cash registers when not on a power conditioner. They might or might not help the sound of the system but protect against power surges.y power goes from 121 to 127

PowerVAR is what I have. Also my strero system is on a dedicated circuit with 2X 30 amp circuits, so basically I can run all of my equipment 

Yup.  My ears provided the solid evidence that the Puritan was getting the job done in my system.

I had one power conditioner and auditioned another.  In my oponion there was little to no improvement from either device.  I deicded to try one more time and purchased the Puritan PSM156 earlier this year.  I was shocked by how much better everything sounded with the Puritan. 

Always been a little skeptical about these types of devices but Purtain, at least in my system, has improved the overall sound quality and I guess either eliminated to dramatically reduced the interference. 

I'm unaware of any solid evidence that power conditioners improve sound in a normal home electric setup. Esse est percipi. 

My Ears are my evidence in my system.   YMMV.

I'm unaware of any solid evidence that power conditioners improve sound in a normal home electric setup. Esse est percipi. 

I have tried a few and ended up with a PS Audio P20.  It is a great power regenerator and I couldn't recommend it more highly.  It's low induction and large power resever totally eliminates any congested or compressed sound on loud and complexe musical passages.  It also has a very, very black packground that helps create a huge sound stage.  I have done enough a/b that there is no question in my mind on what a great addition to my kit this is.  Also using A/Q Storm Hurricane power cables.  The two together are a great combo.  

Power conditioners never worked on my components.  I tried Shunyata . Running springs , Furutech, Tranparent Audio 

I have tried many of these devices thru the decades and my last ownership was of 3 PS Audio P10's.

They do work to a certain degree like everything else, however, after improving the source in my 2 channel, starting with wall receptacles, I removed my 3 P10's without any regrets. 

 

Shunyata Talos made a good improvement. I want to go for Denali in the future. Recently I bought Audio Envy Mega 10 th gen. Power cable for the Talos. Simply amazing. The previous cable is the Shunyata  Cobra Ztron. No comparison at any aspect of high end audio.

Shunyata Denali V2 made a big improvement to my system.  Everyting plugged in including amps.

I bought a power conditioner decades ago. It made a not insignificant difference. 
 

in my new home, a dedicated line was run directly from the circuit breaker in the mechanical room to my audio room. I've found that the power conditioner still makes a difference but it's quite small. 

The filters in most power conditioners can result in "current-starving" of amps which is why many manufacturers recommend plugging their amps directly into the wall outlet. Source components are less demanding current-wise and may benefit from a conditioner. A Furman AC-215A provides surge suppression and line filtering for my FM tuner and CD player.

millercarbon

I disagree.

Better cables are ok, but expensive cables are just snake oils.

Phillyb is right.

After using Lessloss's first filter, 2 different Bybees, I stopped on a Torus AVR16 : Air Tight ATM3, pre ans sources all connected to it. End game.

I wanna flip your question the other way around. Im running 2xP12 regenerators. One for each monoblock (JC1+) whereas the rest of the system is divided equally between the two regenerators. All I can say is that my system benefit from these regenerators very well. Both dynamics and blackness is added compared to running them directly in to wall outlet. What is a regenerator a P12 then? Its stored energy in its heavy caps and coils also making a more clean sinus wave. Bare in mind I live in country using 230 voltage and Im truly sure this also has advantages du to lower current of the components vs 120V. Only downside I would say is the fans of the P12, they are not noisy at all but their still there and can be audioble when everything else is dead quiet. I would say my P12´s are running totally 35-40% capacity at medium to high volume.

Im not answearing the topic as Im still running regenerated power and having no plans of otherwise, but Im trying to enlighten why Im using these as someone might find it interesting....

Edcyn say the truth..... tripplite box is the way..!!

 

edcyn

1,019 posts

11-09-2021 2:04pm

When my PS Audio  AC Junction box overheated and bit the dust, I replaced it with a generic TripLite box that happened to be in the house. Son of a gun, the stereo sounded better with the TripLite. I still though, connect the TripLite to my groovy PS audio wall outlets with the hefty PS Audio AC cord that came with the PS Audio box. Agreed, I was never able to do  back-and-forth comparisons, but I just don't care enough to fret over it. I'm getting good sound, and that's enough.

wrm57,
I have 3 dedicated lines all with Furutech NCF outlets.
The main one has a Niagara 7000 (with a Dragon power cord) which powers my Dac, Steamer and tube amps. The 2nd dedicated line has a Niagara 1200 which powers 2 subs and a few sundry pieces, and the third has a Niagara 1000 that powers my video equipment.
So, don’t give up on the other dedicated lines.

ozzy

I've tried many, most of them were some kind of humbuster approach as I have a lot of DC on the line which makes my preamp hum.  All of them I tried killed system dynamics with or without the amp plugged into it.  The only one that removed most of the DC and did not kill system dynamics was the Emotiva CMX-2.  My amp is plugged directly into the wall (dedicated power line to a Porter Port plug) and so is the Emotiva CMX-2.  Everything else in my system is chained off one of the two CMX-2 plugs using Wiremold powerstrips.  Best setup I've found for my needs.  I also use a  EP-2050 at my mains box.

I've had sucess with Monster Power conditioners (pro5100 and HTS5100 MKII) on primary and secondary systems.  Also using Sonoquil cables in the primary rig; secondary uses cheap speaker wire from Amazon and OEM cords. No clue on the OEMs as to their preference.
To each his own re power quality. Happy camper here.

I could hear no difference so I returned the unit. Then I bought a couple of Furman Elite 15's. With this I could indeed hear a difference, but it was clearly negative. My Rowland amps sounded harsh and nasty so they went right back into the wall. It took me a little while to realize what was happening to the rest of the system: flat, lacking dynamics

@markmuse. I have never liked plugging an Amp into a power conditioner. Interesting though the negative effect on the CD transport. 

Solutions in search of a problem: I have two 20 amp dedicated circuits to my audio system. I was not aware of a power supply problem but thought I would give a PS Audio regenerator a try. I could hear no difference so I returned the unit. Then I bought a couple of Furman Elite 15’s. With this I could indeed hear a difference, but it was clearly negative. My Rowland amps sounded harsh and nasty so they went right back into the wall. It took me a little while to realize what was happening to the rest of the system: flat, lacking dynamics. Even a lowly CD transport was audibly effected. Not sure how that is possible but there it is. So now everything is back direct into the wall and it sounds just fine. Anyone want some Furman units in original packaging?

I plug my amp directly into the wall. It sounded worse into a Furman 15dmi.
In my 50 years, I’ve never had an issue with a lamp plugged into a wall outlet so I’m going to experiment with simpler types of protection.

What I’m discovering in general is that power conditioners can make wire management tougher. I’m betting that deferring to good wire management may have more impact.

Pretty obvious that PS Audio uses their house brand. I’m asking about brands such as ARC, Pass, Boulder etc.

@barts I would look at show reports as it may be listed there. Reading between the lines at the CAS in the ARC room they are using all

Nordost supplied the system’s Odin II cables

So I would say it is their power conditioner also (reading between the lines.

Good question on what Pass, McIntosh, Mark Levinson. ARC, Solutions, Classe, and on and on use on their gear when they design and voice it, what power cords, what conditioners. Excellent question. The answer for most zero

@phillyb I would disagree and would say they would make recommendations to their dealers for showroom setup as they would also use them for events like CAS... They may not outright endorse a third party but I guarantee they use them or something in their test beds when collecting data for their published specs.

Does any one here have direct knowledge concerning the type/brand of power conditioning that hi-end component manufacturers use?

Pretty obvious that PS Audio uses their house brand. I’m asking about brands such as ARC, Pass, Boulder etc.

Not sure I would put PS Audio in that crowd, just my opinion.

Thank you all for the responses, so like always attack and become argumentative. I use a Furman Reference 20i and a PS Audio P-12. One for the Video system and the PS for my front end.

Most wrote how they love their conditioners, that is great! My interest was for those to reply who tried them and decided that they were not for them.

As far as the free market goes, well duh! that is a given. And who’s said they were trying to take away your right another duh!

What I was trying to get across was many systems before power conditioners sounded great, not from memory but from experience and what got me into this hobby. Some had that reach out and touching moments, and like you were in the studio, more so than then than today, I might add were many systems sound like hi-fi, thin and bright thus perceived lots of detail. Great for the wow factor at first then it gets old. Back then the goal was to try to get a recording to sound natural and real, young labels like OPUS3 worked hard at their recordings to produce the sound, using Dynaco Stereo 70 amps if I recall in their recording chain. That is a fact.

Good question on what Pass, McIntosh, Mark Levinson. ARC, Solutions, Classe, and on and on use on their gear when they design and voice it, what power cords, what conditioners. Excellent question. The answer for most zero, we change their sound once we get it in our hands with our choice of power cords and conditioners, footers, etc. to tune and color the music to what we like to hear in our room and system and speakers, if not we use the stock power cord, and plug them right into the wall. PS Audio sells conditioners while making audio gear so for sure they use their own conditioners that be dumb if they did not. 

So many conditioners on the market so if one is right then the others must be wrong? They come and go, the next one being the best ever and on and on. Just something to think about. But in the end, this is a hobby, it is fun with opinions and that is OK, but why the attacks and anger over a hobby. Geez.

Does any one here have direct knowledge concerning the type/brand of power conditioning that hi-end component manufacturers use?  

Pretty obvious that PS Audio uses their house brand.  I'm asking about brands such as ARC, Pass, Boulder etc.

Regards,
barts

" But profits come from satisfying consumer demand."

No Miller. Profits come from stimulating it.

You've said it Miller:  "Selective memory nostalgia", is when you think you hear a difference after adding a passive component that you've paid a lot of money for, and then it gets locked in by the warm feeling generated by the apparently positive response to your wise spending. We all have the urge to feel happy whether or not there is anything to be happy about.

As far as passive power cords are concerned, all will do the same job as long as they can pass all the current demanded without high resistance.

Power conditioners can be useful if they can actively remove noise and other unwanted artifacts from the line.

A selective emotionally driven memory which places the issue of selective emotionally driven memory -- on everyone else.

Thank you for making decisions for me about who and what I am. I'm too dense to make my own decisions. I don't have enough self awareness for that.

Thank the gods some of you (you know who you are) are out there. I need to be saved.

+1 Clearthinker

(though some outlets also stimulate insecurity and intolerance.)

I bought an Audence AR-6 a couple of houses ago and it got rid of the noise in the power.  The last house, the power was cleaner and I pulled it from the system.  We just moved again and the power here is really flaky so it’s back in the system.

All the best.

JD

All circuits in my house are 20amp as it was built. I have all units plugged into a Mc MP500 and use my own built power cords of Furutec components. I like having the ability to unplug just the PC when experiencing lightning storms which we have frequently in the spring and fall. 

Many residential and commercial spaces apparently do not require power conditioning. My colleagues here in the department of electrical engineering and computer science measured the voltage in our house and within our home network. They even brought some expensive retail conditioners to test and they (and me using my ears!) - we found no measurable or significant differences. I will post their results if there is interest. There are no problems or issues here - thus, I believe that those who suggest that we can all benefit from power conditioning are wrong.