What Are Your Reference Discs? or Specific Reference Tracks
Looking for new gems! My reference discs are: Graceland, Paul Simon Avalon, Roxy Music Brothers in Arms, Dire Straits So, Peter Gabriel Ten Summoner's Tales, Sting
The responses to this post have been great. Keep them coming!
Once you have built the system, isn’t this all that’s its about? In my mind the music is 95% of the Audiophile quest. With some of these tracks I would be happy listening to them through my i-Phone6’s speaker! El Macho- Mark Knopfler One of my favorite bass tracks that will slam you in the chest. What some of you still don’t have a subwoofer? Justice’s Groove- Stanley Clarke This time beautiful bass tone instead of slam. Is this Jazz, Fushion? Who knows, I’ll call it Ear Candy! Pearl On A Half Shell- Weather Report Recording so clear, the attack, sound stage, the dynamics. You get the idea all those reviewer’s buzz words are here to enjoy!
There is no question that the few Better-Records I have are head and shoulders above any others. But I just got Donald Fagan Nightfly 180g German LP from Amazon that is probably the best regular record I have. I judge my favorite recordings by SQ. Also at the top are the few LP available from Cardas.com. Mr. Cardas really took special steps to achieve super SQ. Also love Getz/Gilberto. And any Louis/Ella.
I'm of the same belief as you when it comes to the vinyl/digital debate. But hey you gotta discover new music in order to know what vinyl to go and buy. Qobuz is my method.
But if you have the means (to stream digital from a service), I suggest you give that percussion track a go.
I love the way my Tekton D.I's handle drums ( strings and horns too )
"New music" to me is what Tom Port got in this week. He sends me an email a couple times a week, which is why pretty much all my streaming is done over a toilet bowl. ;)
Try the command record catalog from the early sixties through the mid seventies as well as the american gramaphone catalog from the seventies to about 2015 or many reference records and as for rock try early zz top and steve miller band. These should give you some new leads as well as if you like the newer heavier music you could try tool or candlebox's first album.
I've been using John Klemmer 'Touch', Robin Trower 'Bridge of Sighs', and Little Feat 'Waiting For Columbus' in both MFSL CD and 1/2 speed LPs for demo purposes since the 80's.
More recently I've used Dire Straights 'Brothers In Arms', Frank Zappa 'We're Only In It For The Money', and pretty much anything by Nickelback.
I share or showoff what ever music I'm into at the time. For me, it's not the detail of your system, it's the music you want them to hear and maybe to share your interest and enjoyment.
I just use 1 piece of music. David Byrne - from the "Grown Backwards" disc, the song "Lazy". I don't buy much in the way of new stuff but want to make sure that things are banging on all cylinders. This has lots and lots of dynamic range. For example, was looking at some Klipsch LaScala's some years back and put this on. When the bass kicked in, you could immediately hear the short comings in the woofers, there was damage to try and deal with, on something that someone wanted full pop at the time. I passed. The high end on this equally pushes the tweeters. In the case of the LaScala's they sounded wonderful. I have to admit this isn't perfect. I missed on some JBL 4312's and had to buy a new driver. There was a frequency in the mid-range that was pure static, for whatever reason.
I'm right there with millercarbon. I used to keep demo discs and records.However, I learned that when you have a set of them, and develop them system to play those at their best, then you skew your system towards making those sound good, and the rest fall off the radar. So, I just listen to music.... whatever I like. Never just for a single track. Put on the whole album. Play a couple different records, and gauge the "performance" after haring 10-15 pieces. That is how we "judge" real performances as well... listen to the concert and then tell how it was. same thing. If we want to have our systems be close to the real event, we have to evaluate recordings that resemble real events. (That is, a whole concert - such as, a Beethoven symphony, a Schubert octet, a Mozart opera, or an early evening raga.)
I like to listen to classical European or classical Indian music. For two reasons: 1. I listen to these anyway, as they are my favorite music2. they challenge the audio system to a much tougher level than safe music does.
Larry from Real HIFI help (YT channel) coined that therm, "safe music", which is the type that we amost exclusively hear audiofile gear being tested with. Such as: Dire Straits, Diana Krall, etc. The "safe music" category has low harmonic complexity, just a few voices harmonizing. There is no harsh distortion, no content that would press the gear to reveal its hidden nasties.Most of the recmmendations will be safe music, and that will establish that the system can play safe music. Which is always the case.... but trying to play your favorites, what about it? Try playing whaever your favorite is. It should not be an issue that it's not an audiofile pressing, it still should sound better than you ever heard it sound before.... and if not, your search is still on! ;) You could try something unsafe, like Cranberries: No need to argue. Just listen to the whole album. If it feels you are at a live Cranberries concert, that's a pretty sure indication that your system rocks. If it hurts your ears, then the system is distorting to generate fake realism. That works only while we stick to "safe music", but breaks apart with challenging material.
Last night my standard Year of the Cat the sax sounded more like sax than ever, the piano had more of the complex resonance of a real piano. Each note on a piano is three strings, and they are tuned individually. Its one of those things tells you its a real piano not a recording, and its way more real now than ever. The electric guitar solo at the end really shines. Probably most impressive is the degree to which all these things are rendered so clear and distinct from each other. There’s recordings like Ronstadt with Riddle, Sinatra with Ellington, Satchmo King Oliver, where the vocals seemed fine but a lot of the accompaniment was sort of buried down in there somewhere. Not any more!
Those 4 albums Vuch19 just mentioned are all audiophile classics and a must have in one form or another. I suggest having at least one "One Mic recording" in your collection for perfect speaker placement. The Visual Sound, the Sound Liaison DXD sampler is a good place to start; it's available at https://www.soundliaison.com/ as well as on https://soundliaison.bandcamp.com/
I want my system to play the music I love the best it can. Why demo things you never listen to? For me, I want to hear Eva Cassidy sing Woodstock, Dave Brubeck et.al. play Take Five and listen to the drummer, and of course The Allman Brother “Live at the Fillmore”. One last test would be Pink Floyd DSOM.
If my system delivers on those (and it does to me), then all is good.
It seems to me that MC is the only one who answered the question accurately. Not because He agrees with me nor because I agree with him but because he spoke the truth. Instead of putting the focus on recordings that make our systems sound their best, we should be talking about how our systems make recordings sound their best. Every LP on my rack is a reference disc because I have a reference sound system.
It seems to me that MC is the only one who answered the question accurately. Not because He agrees with me nor because I agree with him but because he spoke the truth.
Except his first post was derisive of those who use reference tracks, and is contradictory to what he has written in the past when evaluating his system.
I posted a verbatim quote and thread link for reference.
So, perhaps it’s his perspective at the present time, but it’s inconsistent with his comment history.
A rare response to a guy who deserves none- you are wrong. As usual. You took that quote out of context.
The quote is actually making my point, perfectly consistently. The context is explaining how my system, by pursuing exactly what I said- doing nothing but providing a crystal clear window into the recording- has allowed all these different recordings to shine. That’s why it mentions Ronstadt, etc. You latched onto one word- standard- which you try to make it seem like it means reference, when really all it means is common. I play it a lot. Go find the whole thing, post it, and apologize. Or not. I don’t care. There’s a reason I never respond to you, and it still stands. Bye now!
A rare response to a guy who deserves none- you are wrong. As usual. You took that quote out of context. Either deliberately, because you are one of the ones who think its a good idea to threaten and harass (mailing to my home address, filing false charges against my x-ray license) or simply because reading comprehension never has been your strong suit. Either way, don’t care, except to set the record straight. You are dead wrong.
The quote is actually making my point, perfectly consistently. The context is explaining how my system, by pursuing exactly what I said- doing nothing but providing a crystal clear window into the recording- has allowed all these different recordings to shine. That’s why it mentions Ronstadt, etc. You latched onto one word- standard- which you try to make it seem like it means reference, when really all it means is common. I play it a lot. Go find the whole thing, post it, and apologize. Or not. I don’t care. There’s a reason I never respond to you, and it still stands. Bye now!
Frequently playing a personally popular song to evaluate a system is a definition of a reference recording.
Out of context? The pertinent section was quoted verbatim, including a sentence mentioning other recordings. Below is the entire post. Do the paragraphs before and after add context that changes the meaning of the word "standard" as it relates to "Year of the Cat"? Readers can decide for themselves.
They are. Pretty well burned in. That was the last two nights, the last several posts even. Sound stage is more influenced by fine toe adjustments. I like them toed in a bit more than most. Not a lot, but some. Dynamics are and have been awesome from thevery beginning. Ditto the smooth even flat response.
Just got off the phone congratulating Eric on being such a genius designer. Most coherent speaker yet. Close your eyes, its not even like a speaker at all. Certainly not like a towering great big one! They do large scale bigger and more believably than thesomewhat smaller Khorus, but also do small scale more believably intimate as well.
Last night my standard Year of the Cat the sax sounded more like sax than ever, thepiano had more of the complex resonance of a real piano. Each note on a piano is three strings, and they are tuned individually. Its one of those things tells you its a real piano not a recording, and its way more real now than ever. The electric guitar solo at the end really shines. Probably most impressive is the degree to which all these things are rendered so clear and distinct from each other. There’s recordings like Ronstadt with Riddle, Sinatra with Ellington, Satchmo King Oliver, where the vocals seemed fine but a lot of the accompaniment was sort of buried down in there somewhere. Not any more!
I’m inside there now, applying fO.q tape, eCards and Mats, just taking a break. Mods are hard work. Okay back to it.
As far as connecting me to threats and harassment, (I do know what you’re referring to because I saw your thread, and the photos posted on your second system page before they were both deleted), it’s frankly abhorrent that someone would send a letter like that. My user name was not on the list of supporting members. Your accusation against me is false. You owe me an apology.
As you often say, an insult is not an argument, and your post is a particularly glaring example.
Man this went into the weeds fast. I really believe the purpose of this post was stated in the first sentence Looking for new gems!
Lyle Lovett North Dakota from Joshua Judges Ruth is one of my go to songs used for COMPARISONS. as in developing a baseline of preference. I use it because:
I’m familiar with it Excellently engineered Amazing piano entry that just floats on the sound stage Sharp percussive attacks to assist in evaluating dynamics and snap The duet with Rickie Lee Jones for vocals ... and a great song
I was just surfing old music I felt like listening to, and the Lovett album immediately struck me as especially expressive of my system’s improved capabilities. It’s a great reference disk.
It seems clear that MC uses Year of the Cat as a standard reference track, and its bona fides as a reference track are proved by the way it renders the various instruments. (Viz., "sounded more like sax than ever,", "each note on a piano is three strings…and its way more real now than ever," "things are rendered so clear and distinct from each other.") Indeed, the track exhibits this more the other tracks/artists he mentions in the quotation, so if Year of the Cat stands above/beyond them, I cannot see how it does *except as* a reference track. Unless it is just above/beyond them for the musical content, in which case it wouldn’t be necessary to dwell on the acoustic details.
Sidsel Endresen & Bugge Wesseltoft Out Here. In There.
First to admit that this isn't an album for everyone or probably a lot less than that but as much as I liked it previously the new stereo has elevated this to the top of my favorites group.
Sidsel Endresen is recorded without reverb or special effects so her voice sounds like a voice and it's pure and true. There is a track where she does things with that voice that previously was just a little too weird so I would usually just skip that track. Now nothing but jaw dropping amazing.
This album has bass. Low room shaking bass and chess thumping bass. Bugge Wesseltoft is into unusual sounding percussion that attacks from everywhere with a piano that just ties it all together,
This album is so unusual because there are great accessible tracks that most people could enjoy but Bugge is into new conceptions' of jazz which takes the soundscape to new places that are so much more enjoyable with quality sound.
Unfortunately I doubt if this album will ever be a white hot stamper but for me I'd probably buy it and have to invest in a turntable just to see what it could do.
In Get Better Sound, Jim Smith lists about 180 CDs (no LPs, he explains why) that he finds useful in one way or another. Of these, one (standard, non-audiophile release) is is favorite and in another chapter he details specific sections and what parameter they are used to optimize.
Bobo stensons war orphans/ecm cd Bobo stensons cantando/ecm cd Peter erskine as it is ecm/cd Sound track the mission/cd These have been go to forever i guess...
Although I have several "go to" test tracks for new equipment, the following are at the top of my list:
Patricia Barber Companion XRCD - "Use Me". Terrific live recording with excellent stand-up bass intro, and some Hammond organ highs that will show smooth top end or screechy.
Pink Floyd Dark Side of The Moon - Blu-Ray 24/96K
Arne Domnerus - Jazz at the Pawnshop - 30th Anniversary Edition - Limehouse Blues
Shakti - Joy - Just an awesomely recorded live album
+1 for Sting's "Ten Summoners Tales". A stellar collection of well-written, well-played and well-produced music. +1 for Lyle Lovett's "Joshua Judges Ruth" (esp. "Church"). +1 for "Jazz at the Pawnshop" (3-SACD 30th Anniversary edition) "Getz/Gilberto" (2020 Verve SACD) "Live" Alison Kraus and Union Station
My "testing" playlist is really just tracks that I enjoy and know well in my system. So, if I stop by a hif-fi store I'll bring a thumb drive with a few such tracks. After I break in a new wire, say, I'll play these and listen for certain things (e.g., bass on bridge on first cut below). These are not necessarily very well recorded. A few of these are:
"Out All Night", The Pietasters "King of the Mountain", Midnight Oil "Last Laugh", Dancehall Crashers "Swamp Thang", Hipster Daddy-O and the Hand Grenades "And She Was", Talking Heads
There is a difference between a Demo and a Reference track.
One of my reference tracks is a nostalgic favourite of mine but sounds lousy on most systems, even very expensive ones. 10CC's I'm not in love. Great performance but just seems to have a high noise floor with poor dynamics. When I hear it rendered in a way that makes it at least passable soundwise then I know the system is working.
Another reference is the album from Christina Pluhar, Los Imposibles. One of the best recordings I own. It's a beautiful recording capturing the size of the acoustic space and revealing great purity of tone.
I do not bother with the above for demo, my weird friends have different tastes. When I ask someone what they would like to hear they mostly say ' just play anything' so I put on Patricia Barber and play a couple of tracks, certainly not the whole album, she wears thin very quickly.
Reference and Demo, is it possible? YesChuck Mangione: Children of Sanchez (explosive dynamics, outstanding performance) Play loud Mighty Sam McClain: Give it up to love, track 2, too proud ( won many awards such as blues album of the month) Play louder Osamu Kitajima: I don't think this album has a name but the track of interest is called 'yesterday and karma' When I first heard it I thought I was hearing a synthesizer but it turned out to be Minnie Ripperton's incredible voice, WOW! When the tune was written Osamu could not find a Japanese girl who could hit these notes so Ms Ripperton was called upon. This is serious goosebumps territory and if you do not react/respond to this then perhaps your system is wanting. All his stuff is interesting
So the OP just asked for some reference recordings. I observe more than I post, but seems like every thread that Millercarbon participates in become first of all a lecture series from MC, and then a bunch of snarky comments back and forth between MC and various other members. It really is tiresome.
I hope at least one person finds a new favorite in the list below
Rosanne Cash "10 Song Demo" Kruger Brothers "Remembering Doc Watson".. Leonard Cohen "Ten New Songs" John Hiatt "Crossing Muddy Waters" Alan Jackson "Like Red on a Rose" Mark Knopfler " Sailing to Philadelphia" Tim and Mollie O’Brien "Away Out on the Mountain" Jamie Saft "You Don’t Know the Life" Dave Holland "Good Hope" Till Bronner "Nightfall"
I do find it interesting that several people have posted comments along the lines of..... I love this song but it is a poor recording (too bright or muffled or whatever) so if your system makes it sound OK then your system is working properly. I don’t follow. A good system IMHO should reveal a poor recording for what it is, not mask it’s faults. If a recording that really is too bright sounds OK isn't the system too dull?
Which leads me to the second thing I find interesting. How many people choose some recordings early on in their quest that perhaps aren’t really great recordings, and then tune their system to make those particular recordings sound good? Example.. They work at it until the bass on recording X sounds great, but how do you know that the bass on recording X is recorded all that well? Just because a reviewer declares it to be a great recording doesn’t make it so. Maybe it just happens to sound really good on his system
I may have missed something, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned any chamber music recordings. I often listen to chamber music, and many systems which are really great on "big music" don't quite let you hear the wood in a pizzicato passage of a small ensemble. When I go to listen to a system, I bring chamber pieces where texture really matters. (Which is most chamber music, really, but for some works failure in this dimension really stands out.) Schubert is good for this, especially the C major quintet, esp esp the 2nd movement. Also the Eb major trio. Also, Shostakovitch's violin and viola sonatas. The problem with the viola sonata for this purpose is that it is in some ways painful, and so engrossing that even a mediocre system disappears and the music just takes over. Maybe that's a criteria for reference recordings - if the purpose is to find a few pieces to listen to that display the qualities of a system you are listening to for the first time, or just for evaluation, you should choose music that is not too involving, of a genre that you listen to, but pieces you can stand away from a bit. For showing off my own system, I just tell people to bring over what they like. I learn more about its flaws that way.
The quick reference list is - Steve earle guitar town, Frank Sinatra swing easy, Van Halen I, Frank Zappa Apostrophe. If I really want to listen to my stereo I throw on the old cathedral organ Bach fugues record I have. I pick these because I am very familiar with them, they represent my taste, and because they are all recorded very well. The organ music really lets you hear if your equipment is smearing the details because it so full (no space between sounds). But as it's been said, you really need to listen for a awhile (weeks), as you normally listen, to eval anything.
I'm not sure that reference is the proper term; I burned a CD that use a collection of tunes I like and I'm well familiar with that allow me to note certain aspects of a system that I audition (ambience, soundstage, detail, bass, etc.)
Most are not "audiophile" recordings, but well produced and recorded tunes (more or less):
Shirley Horn - The Music That Makes Me Dance Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem Michael Franks - Dragonfly Summer Dianne Reeves - Never Too Far Fourplay - 101 Eastbound Steely Dan - Jack of Speed Grace Jones- Don't Cry - It's Only The Rhythm Larry Carlton & Lee Ritenour - Take That Herbie Hancock - Butterfly Lee Ritenour - Boss City Dave Brubeck - Take Five Miles Davis - So What Buddy Guy - Sweet Black Angel (Black Angel Blues) Cassandra Wilson - A Little Warm Death
I've also been known to pop it in and just listen every once in a while!
I just ordered a Lyngdorf MP-40. I’m hoping to use the "Center Spread" of the Lyngdorf just for the purpose of taking some of the center channel out (and moving it into the Mains) of the Eagle Visions 5.1 DTS-HD Dolby recordings of many of my Concert recordings. For example, the Eagles @ Melhorn is absolutely the gold standard. But many other otherwise good concerts, Doobie Bros @ Wolf Trap, Jethro Tull @ Montreux etc. super impose material on the center channel. Maybe they do it that way for cheaper systems, buy on a nice system it actually is irritating. You can lower the volume of that one speaker, but then you have lost all that material . I assume you are talking about 2 channel play, but I use my system for much more than that .
Ode to Boy (Live) -Yazoo , Behind the Wheel - Depeche Mode , How Soon is Now -The Smiths , Slave to Love - Bryan Ferry , Famous Blue Raincoat - both Leonard Cohen and Jennifer Warnes versions. Anything with a lot of synth as well like Gesaffelstein.
It's not clear to me who these reference tracks are intended for....the owner or a new listener. Playing a new listener a track unknown to them will mean less than something they've heard endlessly on the radio or other/their systems. That's why I find myself demoing/showing-off my system with a DVD-level version of Zeppelin's Whole Lot of Love....it's like hearing it for the first time! For my personal enjoyment remastered BluRay audio discs, with zero compression on the drums, etc., do the trick for me: Stevie Wonder - Joy Inside My Tears King Crimson - Epitaph The Beatles - Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds (not a favorite song, but the tom toms will move your chest!) The Beatles - Why Don't We Do It in the Road (the complexity of that opening drum fill in hi-def has to be heard to be believed) Van Morrison - Moondance Beethoven - The Symphonies, Herbert Von Karajan, Berliner Harmoniker (all 9 symphonies and a half hour of No. 9 rehearsals on ONE disc!) Caveat emptor: not all hi-res discs sound incredible....
Linda Ronstadt singing "When You Wish Upon A Star" with Nelson Riddle and his orchestra on the album "For Sentimental Reasons" recorded and mastered by George Massenberg.
I like albums that are a bit "difficult." In other words, ones that are somewhat difficult to reproduce cleanly. Rickie Lee Jones's Pop Pop can peel the skin off your ears until you get it right. The bass on Holly Cole's Temptation album of Tom Waits covers has a bass line throughout that is full, but really challenging in terms of detail extraction. Patricia Barber's Companion album challenges with sibilance, soundstage, noise floor, bass detail and dynamics. Then there are cuts that are better than you would think--examples include Magnificent Seven by The Clash, Radiohead's Creep, and Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side...
Here are a few of my go-to recordings for evaluating a new tweek or equipment upgrade. I also find myself listening to these recordings all the way through for pure musical enjoyment:
Jo Stafford "Ballad of The Blues." (original six-eye Columbia stereo)
Norman Luboff Choir "But Beautiful" (original six-eye Columbia stereo)
Dave Brubeck: "Jazz Impressions of The USA" (Mono - never released in stereo.)
Sue Raney - "Sings the Music of Johnny Mandel." With the Bob Florence Trio. "Discovery Records."
JOHN WILLIAMS-Paganini Guitar Trio & Haydn Guitar Quartet Columbia1968
I listen to a lot of things, but in the spirit of your "new gems" search, two tracks that I've been testing with as I've been moving my system around various apartments this year are 1.) "Afterglow" by Lydia Ainsworth (from Darling of the Afterglow) (Tidal HiFi) It has these amazing bass synth swoops that are either killer or missing depending on whether I've got the placement and decoupling right, and her layered vocal and stray percussion accents are so forward that it's a great show of mid-high balance. 2.) "If You Could Read My Mind," by Gordon Lightfoot (Tidal Master) goes all the way opposite with natural, close mic'd guitars, baritone voice, string orchestra. Lots of separation of instruments. Enjoy!
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