What are your opinions of DSP's for speakers

No, no, and no. 

It is hard enough to get the very best sound with the straight wire approach. Adding extra digital processing will be subtracting from coherence. You add complexity and then pile more stuff into multifunctional boxes and you lose fidelity. 

Then there is putting generally less reliable electronics into a very reliable speaker system. So, something fails, and you have  a hundred plus pound speaker with electronics inside it. Passive speaker system typically perform without failure for decades.

One of the variables that interferes with sound reproduction in vibration. So, putting electronics into a speaker is very counterproductive. This is one of the reason that audiophile equipment is in very heavy cases...it is dampening. 

Also, mechanical failure is accelerated by vibration.

Someday, I am sure... just like CDs now can sound great... forty years after starting to try. But not now. 

For consumer or budget audio equipment, sure. It doesn't sound that great to start with, so you can equalize it to sound better. 

DSP is a tool. it’s neither good nor bad. and can make perfect sense when it is the best approach to solve the problem. but DSP is not free. it costs musical essence. and there is the 2 channel case, and the multi-channel home theater case. they are separate subjects. 

for 2 channel i think at the lower price levels of speakers in rooms with issues it is a good choice to consider if one wants full range performance. but again DSP is a tool for situations when it allows for better ultimate performance. can DSP help more than it dumbs down the music? it can be much more realistic to solve room issues with DSP than to change around a living room or other imperfect room. how restricted are you in system set-up and optimization?

OTOH once you get into dedicated rooms and higher end systems then the signal path purity becomes the priority and making the room correct. the idea is to eliminate the need for DSP as a tool. DSP can also be a dead end to system development. it drags down musical essence as you try to find better sound.

i do not know anyone who uses DSP in a 2 channel system. and have not heard a DSP system for 2 channel that i like. my Home Theater uses the Trinnov processor and has 9.3.6 Dolby Atmos speaker system and does movie soundtracks great. that is a proper use of DSP.

there are some interesting uses of DSP such as the BAACH process, and maybe some others too. lots of extreme opinions. but for my money i want a pure analog signal path and have no interest in DSP for my 2 channel system.

Thanks to both of you for your advice. I assumed this would be most people's opinions here. Usually less and simple is best. Speakers are my last upgrade to my system (Yeah, I know they should be first) but the decision and selection is more difficult than I thought. I just got back from 3 days at AXPONA again and still haven't made up my mind. The search goes on.

No matter how good your system is it still has to operate in your room.  It's not surprising that the room's dimensions and surfaces can dramatically affect how a speaker sounds.  Most people do not have the luxury or money to build an acoustically perfect room from scratch, and others often cannot even install all the room treatments needed to maximize sound quality.  The latter is especially true if the room is used for multiple purposes.  In those situations, DSP can be an invaluable aid for fixing room nodes.  I know in my situation DSP room correction made a great improvement in my listening experience.  But, as with any other decision regarding audio equipment, each user need to try and experiment for themselves and then go with what works for them.

@willywonka I used DSP implemented on Convolution filters running on ROON (so a computer). The DSP is processed before the bits hit the DAC.

In a difficult room DSP can make a speaker work where all other physical approaches are not as good. I had encountered this when I tried to put a Thiel CS3.7 speakers in a small room. Without DSP and using only acoustic treatment I got about 60% of the sound possible with the 3.7. Using the DSP specifically made for my seating position, my room, my speakers I got a sound that was about 80% as good as the 3.7 was capable. I could hear what 100% of the 3.7 was capable of in my larger Livingroom,

I had my Convolution filters done remotely by a professional audio engineer. He also did the filters for the RAAL SR1a that you owned. I stopped using the RAAL filters when I got the VM-1a. I believe you owned both.

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets

BTW - if you are looking for speakers give Danny a call in Ventura. He has designed some incredible speakers.  He should be very close to selling them now. He likes them better than my speakers which he was raving about after a listening session. I heard his new speaker in prototype form, and it was a killer sound. Very unique.

BTW - I recently got the Townsend Podiums (floor platforms) for my speakers. I can really hear a difference with them. Recommended.

@yyzsantabarbara I actually talked to Danny a few days ago at AXPONA. I'm not really listening to my headphones at all. I sold my VM-1a but still have my headphones. I also used convolution filters with my RAAL headphones. They were also custom made for the headphones by Accurate Sound. The purposed of my question was really just to determine what people were thinking about DSP's. I have pretty good room acoustics and do have room treatment. Really not sure what direction I will go with speakers. I'm all over the place now but really like my Planers. I'm thinking OB, Planers or electrostatics would be best for me. These types of speakers also have less interaction with side walls than boxed speakers. Love huge soundstages, transparency, and crystal-clear sound. I rarely listen to anything above 90db. Thanks for the input. 

If you have a good room without too much furniture in the way of the sound then going without DPS is what I would do. I do this in my Livingroom which has 25 foor ceiling and the first reflection is far away on both sides. I also have 0 furniture in the Livingroom, just the speakers. 

With regards, to Danny. I am referring to his new floor standing speakers, Not headphones.

Magnepans also are not that difficult with respect to first reflections.

I will use subs or a sub crossover that uses DSP but not on the speakers.   Don't feel there is a need to in my rooms. 

What is DSP?

There's a lot more that goes into the use of DSP than room and bass correction.   They also serve to give designers better and more powerful tools for crossover design and phase correction. 

If you ask, do I use DSP for bass correction?  Yes, absolutely. Even better if you can do it before your DAC such as with Roon. 

I’m a bit mixed on this.  As a purist I don’t want any extra processing going on in my system and would prefer using room treatments to mitigate those issues.  But many years ago I got to hear a six-figure system in a dedicated and treated room using the TacT 2.0 preamp utilizing their room correction (now employed in Lyngdorf products) and the results were fairly astonishing.  The system sounded very good in bypass mode without room correction, but it was undeniable with correction the sound was significantly better across the board.  I heard something very similar at a TacT demo at a show several months later so this wasn’t just a one-off impression.  Kal Rubinson did a review of the same unit in Stereophile around the same time, and what he found in his treated room was pretty spot on with what I heard and summarized it well in the review when he said “And even though I have concerns about the absolute transparency of the TacT’s A/D performance, those were more than outweighed by the advantages of room correction.”  Those echo my experiences exactly, and here’s the review where his listening impressions  start on page 3 if you wanna skip all the setup hoopla.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tact-audio-rcs-20-digital-equalizerpreamplifier-page-3

So initially as a purist I was very resistant to using any DSP in my 2-channel system, but knowing what it can potentially do I will definitely give it a shot at some point just to see because if/when it works it really works to the point where you don’t wanna listen without it.  So I’d say don’t knock it til you at least try it.  Just my experience FWIW. 

I am going to go against the grain here. I do have the Legacy Audio Focus XD's with the Wavelet II DSP. I use it as my preamp fed by my Terminator 15th DAC. I have a dedicated 14 x 18 x 6.5 room. (Low ceiling) with a massive amount of room treatment, dedicated AC lines, the whole ball of wax. The Boehmer room correction is simple to use and does a dramatic job, especially with bass control. You can turn the DSP on and off using the software either on a cell or laptop with the click of a mouse. The difference is not subtle! Maybe it's not the answer for everyone, but Bill from Legacy Audio is onto something in his design of Masters Collection Speaker line. Speaker plate amps are modular if they fail and can be replaced if that ever happens. The processor can be sent in for repairs like any other component. I am getting fantastic sound in my medium modest system. I also use a HD Plex LPS for the Wavelet and just ordered a Revelation Audio Labs ambilocal cable for it. So for me it works very well, for others maybe not.

@fthompson251 Thanks for your feedback. I just listened to the Legacy Focus SE with Wavelet II at AXPONA and it was impressive. I'm not really wanting to substitute my existing preamp and DAC for the wavelet though and that's another reason for my hesitation with the technology. I am interested in the SE version or possibly the XD version, but I need more information on them. Thanks for your opinion on this. I want to hear both sides.

@ghdprentice Mic drop! One of the most simplistic, coherent, sensical, and best replies I have seen! Makes 100% total sense👍🏻

I haven't read all the posts here but will add my two cents FWIW.

I spent a good 2.5 hours of serious seat-time A/B auditioning a pair of GoldenEar Triton 2+ and a pair of Martin Logan Motion 60xti speakers, using a Simaudio Moon Neo 340 IX, a Marantz CD player and some CDs I brought for this audition.  I was told the Tritons had about 20 hours break-in time on them and the ML around 30 or 40.  Both of these speakers performed spectacularly, as far as my (and my friend's) ears were concerned.  My friend and I, both, loved both of these speakers, a lot!  However, in the end we both gave the ever so slight nod to the ML.  Although I loved the GE and would have been plenty happy with them in the right room, their sound signature was something I still can't quite put my finger on or describe any better than this:  it was like they did everything super right, reproduced every instrument's sound correctly and faithfully but somehow didn't mix all of that up into one cohesive or mixed musical reproduction.  I'm sure there's a word or term for that in the audiophile's lexicon but damn if I know what it is.  I kept telling my friend they lacked "fill".  That's the term I used for not being able to put everything together.  Remember!  I'm still splitting hairs here!  Don't know if the built-in Class D subs had anything to do with this or maybe lack of break-in, component matching issues, etc. but they were just lacking "fill".  The other thing I was and am wary about when it comes to powered speakers like this is the fact that they need to be plugged into an electrical outlet and probably individual outlets of their own.  Maybe that doesn't matter but the last thing I need is more wires & cables behind my rack or more circuit breakers, power conditioners, etc.!

Depends on your room and your system. My system is open baffle and subwoofer based. Thus some sort of crossover is required. Initially the was done with plate amps on the subwoofer. Now using a Dayton Audio DSP-408. It's inexpensive, so I imagine there's some SQ degregation. However, being able to cater settings like HP filters, LP filter, delay, and EQ resulted in substantial improvement. I'm pleasantly surprised. I would try a DSP unit from a vendor that is returnable. Play with it for a while and let your ears judge. 

Incredible strides have been made and the trajectory continues.

Subwoofer Optimization aside, if one's system has been seriously assembled with speakers optimally positioned for the playback of a substantial collection of pre digitally mastered vinyl the difference in analog and current digital processed playback can be quit noticeable for some.

Considering the user's age in this scenario, the 2008 Universal Studios fire and the undeniable convinces and enjoyment of streaming the gap must be narrowing by the minute.

In this hobby if you've never heard it done you won't be missing a thing. A testament to the 2024 San Francisco Museum Of Modern Art 'The Art of Noise' that analog playback's trajectory continues.  

Ah yes people allergic to DSP who expect bass integration in room to be a magical thing to do... Y’all are not ready to send your already good system to the next level. Don’t conflate terrible DSP implementation (which from the comments seem to be the case with the lot of you) with actually integrated and well used DSP. So yeah DSP is actually what to do when you have the speaker/room/treatment coupling achieved. Anyone who says otherwise, I say, skill issue.

@m-db ....for better or worse, the former in my realm, been DSP since '80's.
It's allow me to tame rooms that audio may have had no business in...
I've thought over a DBA arrangement that I've inherited a sub-eq that 'onceupona' was mated partially to my amts'..... 😎👍

'If you can't shatter the wineglass with the tweets, knock it off with the subs."
Our retirement homes Will be Different..... ;)

hmmm......" OnceAponA, the Vintage SOTA Show " ....Rent Your space NOW!           ( Cash doesn't swear, it schemes...

...held in a warehouse across the Interstate....Get sued on Monday....*LOL*
If it had better sales, Boy would they get tic'd...*G*

I bought a pair of dsp 8000’s after getting frustrated trying to get a quality system completed. Without the means or experience to match speakers and components to my room while trying to stay in budget was driving me mad. 
 

I remember my first listening session with my wife after upgrading them to se (special edition) and sitting in awe at how beautiful everything sounded. I didn’t realize yet that hifi was more than music to me but also an upgrade hobby and after a couple years I got the itch again. There’s not a lot of tweaking left for owners of dsp systems and while my 8K’s still give goosebumps they don’t satisfy my need for the occasional new car smell’.

  For those of us that fell in love with the speakers at shop demo only to bring them home and have them sound like crap will appreciate the consistency of active dsp systems.

@markley -- "What is DSP?"

I don't see anyone has answered your question. DSP is the acronym for Digital Signal Processing.  It is often implemented these days using parametic EQ which can fine tune the equalization much more specifically than traditional EQ or tone controls.  It is usually setup with a measurement microphone using frequency sweeps to find peaks and valleys for the in-room response.

True we tend to assume everyone responding to this thread knows what dsp stands for, but our op is pretty clear what he wants to hear from us or he probably would have asked ‘what is dsp?’

I was at Axpona as well but didn't take the time to hear the Legacy system but I did stop in the Dutch & Dutch room to hear the 8c's.  A brief demo was done for us and I was as impressed as I thought I would be by them.  Anyone else check out Dutch & Dutch and have a comment?

@asvjerry ....for better or worse, the former in my realm, been DSP since '80's.
It's allow me to tame rooms that audio may have had no business in...
I've thought over a DBA arrangement that I've inherited a sub-eq that 'onceupona' was mated partially to my amts'..... 😎👍

'If you can't shatter the wineglass with the tweets, knock it off with the subs."
Our retirement homes Will be Different..... ;)

I have always been astonished by DSP systems before and after demonstrations in a as you say, 'no business in' rooms at audio shows. Autonomous system setup for the newly baptized, terrific. My Velodyne Plus subs have been pulling that same trick off since 2011. Amazing.  

Back at the show the next room I sit down in, lets say the Zesto room. The total analog-ness is like a dose of Dilaudid. My neck and shoulders slump into that fatigue-less bliss. What is that?  

We're in our retirement home. One word, 'ranch' style. You take care.

M

@m-db "Ranch" around these parts is either a dip or dressing....but being from SoCA, know the ’techtural style’....even if you’re not ’there’...I bolted early... ;)

Back when, it was all manual adjusts that made the neighbors worry about alien abductions underway...*L*  It’s nice now to let it do the thing, punch Mem #. and tweak to taste.👍😊

 Dilaudid at an audioxtravaganza is a serious brush with TACS (Totally Annihilated Credit Syndrome), and is usually followed by anaphylaxis-like symptoms only during the flight/train/drive home....typically:

"WTH did I just do?"  😏
Succumbed to Tubeular Blissted Brain Boggle....aka: TB3.  Worse events at or near end of show dates.  

Symptoms start with blissed-outs, which you Definitely had.

Next is hands trying to ’roll’ anything....your program.  The map of floors and the endless rooms and stalls....’rolling your tongue’, frustrating when you can’t (and not everyone can....).

Vendors LOVE when that happens.
Quickest cure is cannonballing into the hotel pool....pray its’ full.... ;)

@speed121 they're one of the best speakers I've heard so far and I've heard many. I have a friend who has a mastering studio and he uses the 8C there and has a pair with some PSA subwoofers for his TV/personal music space 

They're incredibly effortless with presentation, tangible elements in a mix are just laid bare in all its beauty. Gives you the truth as is which I adore 

Is it possible to have perfect room, treated or not?  My understanding is that, at the very least, it's almost impossible to treat a room for low frequencies completely.  One may have an excellent room that sounds very good but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.  DSP can implement functions that simply are not possible with room treatments, such as variable phase correction across the frequency range.

I implement DSP in my two channel system (via MiniDSP hardware and Dirac Live software).  If there is any degradation in sound, as some claim, I don't hear it and the benefits achieved through DSP room correction far outweigh any.  For me, in my space (partially treated with absorption panels on key surfaces, 14x24'), my system went from sounding not right, fatiguing, uneven bass response, to one I look forward to listening to every day.  I'm sure it's not perfect, but I couldn't tell you what's wrong with it.

To misquote, keep the signal path as simple as possible, but not simpler.  Who out there uses a single driver loudspeaker with no electrical crossover?  It's a far less cluttered signal path than the complex multi driver setup most people use.  But maybe it's too simple and has too many compromises.  For most listeners the added complexity of a multi driver loudspeaker is worth it.  Loudspeaker design is filled with compromises and using DSP is just another compromise.  If it works, then it works.

DSP packages in speakers are typically for implementing active crossovers, obtaining a performance benchmark, etc, not for "room/bass correction". 

The best sounding Klipsch speaker, for example, is the flagship Jubilee model which comes with DSP/active crossover. The "essence of music" didn’t get lost on the Klipsch Jubilee and it sounded very good. But, the "essence of music" got lost a lot to my ears on the lower model purist Klipsch heritage speakers. Purism lost the essence of music on that one, for sure.

Room Correction, etc, you don’t need to worry about it. Your 2 channel purist electronics won’t have any of it, with a couple of exceptions perhaps. Yamaha, for example, introduced some room correction with reflective sound control filters, etc on one of their 2 channel integrated amps, R-N2000A, which is tech borrowed from their multichannel gear. You could toggle it on/off and determine which sounded better, i.e. decide if the "essence of music" got better with it turned on or off

On the same note, any purist DAC which says FPGA is very much in the DSP realm. The guy who bought some 80k apparently "purist" dac which sounded like his soul finally came alive actually ended up buying a DSP dac. It was the DSP that brought his soul back from the dead in such instances, it appears.

This seems to be a popular trend with many speaker brands. Some have internal amplification with DSP’s and some have external implementations of it like Legacy. I have heard some good results with it being used but don’t necessarily like the idea of everything being digitized for the sake of room/bass correction. Do you own or plan on buying a speaker like this, or have you heard any using it? 

@atp001  it is impossible to have the perfect room but it is possible to get as close as you can. And that is done with targeted treatment. Using treatment you'd need and not just placing them anywhere in the room. Good speaker/room coupling with SBIR effects taken into consideration, subwoofer integration where necessary and then top that with good and sound DSP implementation and you have as perfect of a space for audio as possible

++ @mikelavigne re: DSP being a tool and the tradeoff being musical essence.

Personally, I find the tradeoff acceptable in the lowest frequency ranges (say under 300 Hz or so), combined with judicious placement and integration of subs, where room characteristics due to resonance -- not reflections -- must be dealt with. I’d rather deal with reflection issues through room treatment. I optimize as much as possible of the low frequencies using placement and phase controls on the subs, leaving DSP to do the "finishing touches." 

I have also found, for my situation, the DSP (either or both of PEQ and convolution filters) in HQPlayer to be superior to that bundled with Roon. I personally found Roon’s DSP to suck too much life out of the music. That may have changed over time, since Roon has made improvements, but I’m happy with what I’ve got with the combo of Roon plus embedded HQPlayer.

My Weiss DAC has excellent DSP available if wanted which I find very useful in some instances.  Typically I leave it all off, but I really like the ability to tailor the sound for different situations.

@steve59 -- true the OP didn't ask the question, but another member did ask that very specific question about halfway down the page.  My post was directed to him.

Thanks for all of your opinions. This has been very informative and given me much to think about! Lots of pro and cons for both sides.

As has been stated already, DSP is an abbreviation of Digital Signal Processing, and it can be implemented in different ways for different purposes. Most here refer to it as a means for digital room correction in listening environments with troubled acoustics, in the context of "consumer or budget audio equipment" (often multi-channel setups), and as an additional process/measure on top of an existing system - typically with passively configured speakers. There’s the gist that DSP is a sub standard approach to fixing problems in a cheap and convenient fashion, and while it can do that it can also - depending on the specific DSP units' design, construction, function and implementation - be a lot more in true state of the art systems. 

@mikelavigne wrote:

DSP is a tool. it’s neither good nor bad. and can make perfect sense when it is the best approach to solve the problem.

A DSP can serve the sole purpose as a digital, active crossover as well, so it’s not only a "tool" but can as well act as an integral, necessary part of a speaker system - prior to amplification.  

but DSP is not free. it costs musical essence.

Compared to what, a passive crossover? With a quality, outboard actively configured DSP in place of a passive crossover (with no other function than that), no. A passive crossover in itself isn’t transparent either, far from it, and it meddles with the amp to driver interface to boot; that’s the double detriment of passive crossovers.

i do not know anyone who uses DSP in a 2 channel system. and have not heard a DSP system for 2 channel that i like.

In what function were the DSP’s used in these 2-channel systems? 

There aren’t a whole bunch of quality DSP’s around, admittedly, and most of them are from the pro sector (that scare off many audiophiles) like XTA, ACX (formerly known as Xilica), DBX and LabGruppen. DEQX makes some cool stuff as well, and is expensive. It’s also worth mentioning, again, that outboard, quality DSP’s can be implemented in most any setup context replacing passive crossovers, albeit with the need for more amp channels to feed each driver section.

Being the über-connoisseur in 2-channel audio reproduction that you are, Mr. Lavigne, and with a passively configured system that no doubt bowls over most of what any of us around here will likely ever get to experience, I’d be interested to learn of your findings with an actively configured and DSP-based setup where the DSP acts as nothing else than a digital, active crossover (i.e.: sans digital room correction) in place of the passive crossovers. Maybe you’d be let down by the outcome, but if so then only because your approach with a passively configured speaker system is so all-out that there’s no digital crossover equivalent readily available. Most however don’t come from the same place (and even so the sonic ceiling can be very high), and that being the case a quality digital XO/DSP for active config. - from my chair - will be the lesser evil compared to a passive context. 

@phusis 

agree that DSP is more than room correction, and can be the right choice for an all digital DIY horn system, assuming you have the skills to execute it, where you have active crossovers. especially where you are using modestly priced digital sources. you have nothing to lose. you have not invested in expensive uber digital with an expensive analog output with signal path purity you are trying to protect. so your performance priority is a digital output to your crossover. it can be one path to great sound on a modest budget.

i’m no expert on the result of such an effort, so it would be unreasonable of me to question your end result. i’m sure it has some amazing attributes.

i have heard the Avant-garde Trio G3 with the I-tron current amplification and it does some amazing things. it does have an analog crossover. but the approach has much in common as far as the directness of the sound.

could i live with it every day? not sure.

Compared to what, a passive crossover? 

i have visited audio shows for 3 decades and heard many all digital active systems and none have ever really got my interest enough to leave a strong impression. but there were many winners and solid sounding set-ups. but honestly not sure i gave them the time of day as i’m a confirmed analog guy and signal path purity is first and foremost to me, and i have spent a couple decades building and tuning a room to support the analog signal path approach. 

so to be fair i don’t know what i don’t know about high level DSP efforts. maybe someday i’ll get bowled over. 

but when i look at my investment in great sources with amazing analog outputs i am skeptical DSP is ever going to do it for me.

as a side note, i have an unused Xilica crossover new in a box sitting up stairs in my barn attic i was going to use with my -3- Funk Audio 18.0 subs with my Trinnov processor for my separate Home Theater system. but turned out that my subs each had a great on board AllDSP crossover so never needed it. i do view the Trinnov as an ultimate product both for room correction and as a crossover so obviously i'm a DSP fanboy big time. horses for courses.

My Emerald Physics 2.8's were designed to be used with DSP. I think it was one of the ways in compensated for the bass loss endemic to an open baffle design. Instead of using what they provided, which was okay, I got the DSpeaker X4, a fairly sophisticated stand alone DSP unit. When i used it for bass at under 250 hertz, it really did a nice job of smoothing out the bass in my problematic room. I very much appreciated its good work. But when I allowed it to be used in the higher frequencies, I was always ill at ease. It changed something for me - but I also allow that it could simply been a bias that colored my perceptions.

Anyway, with my new speakers (I went from open baffle to horns), I do not use DSP, and sold the X4. I am happy this way. 

Keep the DSP in the bass, and I suspect you might be pleased with what it does.

Willywonka

I too am curious about DSP, tweeks, Baach filters, etc.

At Axpona I spent a lot of time in the Theoretica room, to try and understand their Baach4Mac.....and left more confused than when I went in. This will take more digging.

I also spent quite a bit of time, and did purchase a Synergistic Research PowerCell 8SX (to which they through in a lot of extras as a show special) and some pink power cables.....they were with Scott Walker. I need to spend more time here as well, but Ted Denny's demos were eye opening. That being said, the system was probably north of $300,000, but so were many others

I will not be doing this for myself, but I again heard a few "all in one" speaker set ups that were ridiculously good.....these included built in DACs, amps, streamer, DSP, speakers, etc. If I was downsizing or just starting out, I would stongly consider one of these options

The Dutch and Dutch 8C was very impressive, as it has been every time I've ever heard them. I think a pair of 8Cs (NOT THE MONITORS), runs about $15,000

The Grimm Audio LS1C all in one were brilliant (once I got them to mix up the music), it had the matching subwoofer as well. They were being driven with only a Grimm MU1......and I thought were great. A pair were around $24,000, unless you went with the top of the heap bE version......but the demo system was the standard system

Have yet to hear DSP work well for 2ch. It usually make the soundstage smaller, and makes everything sound compressed. I'm sure it's smoother, cleaner, optimized, but it takes all the emotion out of it, feeling sterile. 

Yes, DSP for my 9.4.2, (13 speakers @ 150wpc) absolutely! It's almost impossible to time align all them speakers to a listening spot. Soundstage isn't affected with 4 speakers providing it. But music (unless encoded for atmos) sounds lifeless, and dull, but movies are incredible. 

@vthokie83 There were many more rooms this year with Active/DSP based systems at AXPONA. A popular YouTube reviewer also noticed this. It seems this is going to be the future for many companies. I heard the Dutch and Dutch 8C's at AXPONA a couple years ago and was very impressed with the bass they put out. After doing some research though they down sampled everything coming in to them. I didn't really like that. They also require a physical connection between both speakers. I guess there are compromises with any speaker brand. Thanks for your comments.

Some folks like to live in the past which is fine for them but DSP is the ultimate tweak for 21st century “audiophiles”.   We all have rooms and acoustics to deal with. Speaker designers are always constrained by the laws of physics.  DSP enables that not possible otherwise.   DSP can be used or abused.  Do it right and you are golden.  Do it wrong and….

There is a learning curve.  One must be up it to some extent to be effective. Mastering the use of tools is always the key to a job well done. 

@mswale come have a listen in my house and maybe I can change that.  You never know.  

@mapman said perfectly

It would seem that your failure to execute would be yours alone, not a universal fact.

Took 10 years to get it right, but, I have a DSP multichannel rig that will beat the daylights out of any of these 2 ch rigs on audiogon (including mine)...... pretty sure I know what you all have going there for those 2 apparently pure non-dsp channels, what the limitations are...

Have yet to hear DSP work well for 2ch. It usually make the soundstage smaller, and makes everything sound compressed. I’m sure it’s smoother, cleaner, optimized, but it takes all the emotion out of it, feeling sterile. 

Yes, DSP for my 9.4.2, (13 speakers @ 150wpc) absolutely! It’s almost impossible to time align all them speakers to a listening spot. Soundstage isn’t affected with 4 speakers providing it. But music (unless encoded for atmos) sounds lifeless, and dull, but movies are incredible. 

Willywonka

It's true there are compromises for a "relative" budget product like the Dutch & Dutch 8C, but I did leave this year thinking I liked them more than the last few times I've heard them......and this year are adding the Baach filters. If someone wanted a simple all in one with really good sound, they are a good option. For someone downsizing for any of many reasons (age, weight, room size, simplicity), it's worth a listen......as are the Grimm LS1Cs (or any other LS1 version), which I thought were more "HiFi" than the 8Cs, but double the price. I never expected a Grimm MU1 and a pair of all in one speakers to create that sound

DSP, signal cancellation, Baach, Synergistic Research, Bybee, QSA, Acoustic Revive, Puron et. al, are offering very interesting solutions. I am going to continue to spend a lot of time learning more in 2025, as I also think these technologies have promise. I choose to have an open mind, and will only judge (positive or negative) when I have personally had a chance to hear them myself.

At Axpona this year I sat through several demos over 2 days in the Synergistic Research/Scott Walker room with Ted Denny (yes I know), and it's the first time some their tech has really gotten my attention. I've noticed slight but noticeable improvements in past experiences, but this time parts of his system made large improvements.

Ted started with everything he brought being active (12 or so components), and slowly turned them off one at a time so we could notice their effect. For me his PowerCell SX, Active Ground Block SX, SX level power cables, and a couple of acoustic tweaks were impressive. Scott Walker had what I though was an excellent deal on a PowerCell bundle (PowerCell 8 SX, Euphoria power cable, UEF Purple power receptacle, Purple Fuse, and carbon fiber receptacle cover). My music room is still several months away, so none of it will get installed and tested until this fall I suspect.

I have much to learn, but am looking forward to the ride

I use DSP, external to my speakers, and through my Anthem STR Stereo Preamp. It has onboard Anthem Room Correction (ARC), and customizable bass manager for mono or stereo sub outs. Anthem Room Correction is all the treatment my room will get and it benefits from it, especially integration of my two subwoofers and  stand mount speakers.

I can switch to direct and not use ARC but I lose bass management. I prefer the results with ARC and bass management to pure direct mode.

@mapman where do you live? Always down to hear someone else system.

@deep_333 Never stated any facts, just my opinion. My 2ch is all vintage analog. 

I'm sure in the near future, we will have little black boxes that work their magic to get the perfect sound in any room. Not sure we are there yet. Even my TOTL HT receiver DSP is on the "basic" side of things. Still need a few room treatments to get it "perfect" 

I'd love to audition the new Accuphase DF-75 digital crossover. Just to see what a pedigree High End digital active crossover could do.

Unless you want to go with an all-in-one speaker system, using external RC/EQ tools will give you more flexibility and potentially more accurate DSP functionality.