Got a new amp. Accuphase P-4600. It’s great. I love it.
150 watts into 8 ohms, 300 watts into 4 ohms and it has meters so I can see wattage. Have them set on freeze so I can see the highest wattage during the session.
My Harbeth speakers are not very efficient. Around 86db. Their impedance is an even 6 ohms dipping no lower than 5.8 ohms.
Playing HiRes dynamic classical recordings ( Tchaikovsky , Mahler) at room filling volumes I have yet to exceed 1watt..
Amps today offer a lot of watts some going to 600 even 1200 watts. Even if you have inefficient speakers with an impedance that dips down to 2 ohms do we need all this wattage or should we be focusing on current instead?
I commend the OP for starting this thread. And I think his perception that he's barely using a watt is probably accurate. I often advocate the use of a simple app on a smartphone to measure sound pressure levels. I use Decibel X PRO. Using that app I find that I am almost always listening in the 65-70 dB range. I appreciate that there are other, more truly accurate ways of measuring SPLs out there. My approach is "close enough for all practical purposes".
This is a worthwhile thread and might even deserve to become a sticky. It is great to see another forum member referring to Roger Sanders' excellent white paper on tubes vs. solid state. That's useful information, but it doesn't address another topic that I thinks is relevant here.
The topic I'm referring to is circuit design, both within the amplifier and the crossover. Here (IMHO) the circuit design, how it is wired (point-to-point or does it use circuit boards?), parts count, parts quality, the ear of the designer and so forth have a critical impact on the sound of an amplifier. I think that sonic differences are often attributed to power that have much more to do with the topics above, each of which is worthy of a graduate seminar and extensive study.
I used to own an amplifier designed by Roger Sanders. I used it to drive my Quad 63s. It was superb. Do an internet search on "Innersound Electrostatic Amplifier". You might find a reference to a sneak peek by Harry Pearson circa ~2000 in which he hinted at the high praise he was going to bestow upon it. That amplifier had loads of power, no matter how you wanted to measure it.
I am using different amplifiers now. Though I still own Quads (now 2805s and use a Quad 909 amplifier to drive them) most of my listening is through my Altec A7 Magnificents driven by 1.5 watt Alan Eaton 45 monoblocks. IMHO the circuit of the Alan Eaton amps is the quintessence of elegance. The number of parts is tiny. The quality of parts is high. The circuit has been refined over years by the designer. Same with my Supratek preamp.
System synergy is essential when discussing this question and an amplifier that sounds good in one system might sound not-so-good in another system. Listening preferences are also very relevant in this discussion. How do we listen? What do we listen for?
Every piece of equipment is a complex set of compromises. Cost, size, weight, specifications, etc. I have come to a place where I'm mainly interested in equipment produced by small, specialist companies that don't advertise, where the reputation is spread via word of mouth.
I don't think that I would ever buy any amp based on advertisement, published specification, review or internet buzz because none of that seems to match my own personal preferences when I do get to hear the gear. I don't go crazy trying to hear everything; through long experience, I generally know what kind of amps I like and should bother to audition.
However, based on my basic search, amplifier specs don't advertise/disclose this info.I need one more variable.
@tee_deeThe variable that tells the most about how an amplifier will sound is distortion vs frequency, which is a chart with a curve on it. Ideally, the curve is really a straight line across the audio band. If it rises with frequency, this can cause the amp to sound harsh and bright. The lower the frequency this happens, the more harsh and the more bright. The brightness is not a frequency response error, its caused by higher ordered harmonics being audible. The ear interprets such harmonics as 'bright' and also 'harsh'.
But you are right, many manufacturers do not publish this particular measurement! I'm of the opinion they really don't want the spec sheet actually telling you how the amp sounds.
If watts tell half the story, which advertised spec of the amplifier is a better indicator? I understand amp x volts = watts. However, based on my basic search, amplifier specs don't advertise/disclose this info.I need one more variable.
@pindac
Thanks for the detailed description of your experience and surroundings where this demo took place.
That is indeed a very impressive performance from a 3W valve amp. It is very encourging to know that there are new valve designs in development which may change the way we experience audio.
Hope this product will be made available to all to evaluate, purchase and enjoy in the near future!
@rshank64 In posts made, I attempt to only write and share of experiences had.
As this report made is the description being offered of a very very recent experience had, the content has a relevance to the Topic of this thread.
I am not reporting on a Audio Retailers opinion.
The Speakers were placed in a room with Dimensions approx' 24' (7.5mtr) x 17' (5mtr) approx' 6' (1.8mtr) from the rear wall), 2' (600mm) fom the side wall, with a spacing between the Speakers of 12' (3.6mtr).
The first row of seating was 10' (3mtr) extending back in two more rows to approx' 15' (4.5mtr)
Between a group of eight in attendance, of which none were a nearfield listener, and one attendee is a active Audio Retailer, another attendee a retired Audio Retailer, there was only talk of the very positive impression that was being made by the 3 Watt Output Amp' within the whole group. The Group were not familiar with such a sound that was present, Voluminous Soundstage, with noticeable/notable separation, accompanied with detail retrieval that was hard to fathom, how it was able to manifest as an end sound. The designer made it known where some of the electronics in use were not conventional, and are a contributing factor.
Five Sources were used, both Digital and Analogue, using Silver Interconnect Wires and Silver Wire Speaker Cables.
Immediately after the 3 Watt Ouput Amp's demo, a 30 Watt Output 300b Power Amp was put into service.
There was zero audible evidence this Amp' was doing a Better Job of Driving the Speakers and Coupling to the Room, even though the 3 Watt Amp' was using much of the VC to attain similar dB levels. There was plenty of evidence to show how the two designs are separated through an end sound produced
As good as the 300b is as a design, where the circuit is TDP designed Transformers and is using interstage Tranxs, as well as a very careful selection of resistors that have been highly thought off over the years.
The assessment (not hearsay) for the the new concept design Prototype 3 Watt Output Amp' has been an indelible experience leaving a large impression for an attraction to it. The Amp' is very much worthy of being commented on, especially in a Thread of this Topic.
My most recent experience of a Valve Amp design producing 3 Watts Output, has been a revelation.
3 Watts of valve amplification may be sufficient to drive some very efficient speakers in a small room in nearfield listening mode. It may produce all the fine attributes you mentioned but for most meduim/large speakers in a medium/large room setup this wattage will certainly not be sufficient.
In the context of how many watts we need, with all the virtues of valve amplifiers, 3W/10W/20W will not be able to energies any meduim/large room in any satisfying way in many/most cases. One should also be guided by speaker's recommended amplification.
In my case, I was once interested in a very high end 50W valve amplifier but when I spoke to the manufacturer they said for my speakers and in my room 50W will not be sufficient! I will need 160W valve amp to be fully able to energise the room and get the best out of my speakers. There must be a reason why the company also sell 250W valve monoblocks. My speaker's recommended amplification: 50-1000W into 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 90dB .
My most recent experience of a Valve Amp design producing 3 Watts Output, has been a revelation.
I stepped of the Bus many years past, in relation to Low Watt Valve Amplification, when I had been embarked on the journey to discover my ideal Valve Amp Design.
I could not endear to SE and PP was my preferred design, especially bespoke built 845 PP Amp's.
Yesterday a bespoke built design using a Triode Pre > Triode / Pentode Power Amp', coupled to reasonably efficient Speakers blew me away.
The Headroom, expanse of Soundstage and Separation between performers is possibly unheard to me. The detail that was able to be audibly detected was extremely unusual, but really wanted to be maintained.
I am a Flea Watt convert, within 30 minutes of the new experience, I'm over the moon it continued on for another 3 hours.
Boring? Not in the least, but who am I to tell a seasoned race car junkie with a splash of music exposure to boot.
Yea, I’m serious. Here is my in car camera view of one of the thousands of passes I’ve made in the last 25 years of driving one of these things. Loud? Most certainly. But I like music loud also, when its called for.
Anyone that listen at 113-115db are either def or stupid, or if doing it routinely maybe both?
If you are not def, is it then something you aspirer to be ?
Why would a music lover try to intentionally destroy one’s hearing?
Such levels isn’t the goal nor point of having a high SPL-capable amp-speaker system domestically - not to me, that is - but rather that the ability here pays off at lower levels and to have the desired max. peak levels reproduced cleanly and wholly effortlessly. Referring to my own context above it’s about "super cruising" (aviation term) at any desired SPL, but also and not least that such a system is of a very different physical stature compared to most typical home speakers, and that in itself is a major aspect sonically. Few seem to realize this.
A speaking of which: for some reason many audiophiles almost feel offended or put off by the prospect of very high SPL capability in a speaker setup, concluding that it automatically means blowing off your ears at concert levels and being of a very young or immature mindset, contrary to the sophisticated, experienced 60+ years audiophile who sips at his glass of (expensive) red wine while savoring the soprano voices of Delibes’ Lakmé opera at 65-70dB’s from his low efficiency high-end speakers.
Well, what can one say other than throwing back the ’inexperienced’ accusation at those who don’t know any better here.
As older we get our hearing for most people deteriorate and unfortunately for many it hinders their ability to function 100% in social gatherings and for some people they choose to redraw a bit from social life.
Also as it is now, there is nothing you can do if getting tinnitus which even is a much bigger problem.
i worry about the younger generation that blast music into their ear canal’s with in-ear headphones, I am guessing that most of them will have big hearing/tinnitus problems before they are 50!
Absolutely agree.
Don’t get out much, do ya? Lots of folk go to a monthly concert. And they are played in the 113-115 range. Many times, much more than that. You think all those thousands of listeners at the live performances are going deaf? It better hurry up if it’s going to affect me. I’m almost 70 and have been around loud race cars my entire life.... (And a dash of music). You sound boring! But enjoy life however you want it, I know I have enjoyed the heck out of mine.
I only just turned 50 some 3 years ago, and it’s been over 20 years since I last treated myself to a very loud, large and "unfiltered" amplified concert experience (Depeche Mode’s Exciter tour, which almost got the better of me). Since then I’ve protected my ears hysterically at such large scale and very loud concert events, and I now mostly attend live acoustic, classical concerts.
Boring? Not in the least, but who am I to tell a seasoned race car junkie with a splash of music exposure to boot.
watts are watts, a watt will do the same work regardless of how its derived.
amp topology, power supply type, amount of components in the circuit, speaker efficiencies, etc. will make differences. as long as your not clipping the amp, putting the amp into harm i.e. oscillating, etc. should all be similar as far as power requirements for a given speaker. Probably much lower then most would like to admit.
Bragging rights, power wars, room size and volume, etc. seem to be more an issue. don't get me started on "oh its hi current" well of course, because its low voltage. Power=Current x Voltage after all.
I have noticed that with my McIntosh MC7200 amp (non autoformer) and ADS 1590/2 speakers, 2 watts on the meters will almost burst my eardrums. No technical observance here, just noticed this bit of info when listening to all kinds of music in my room.
If you want to know accurately and in realtime how much power your amp is consuming then look into purchasing Emporia Smart Plug with energy monitor (on Amazon).
The Emporia Smart Plug allows you to monitor the energy use realtime and control most appliances from anywhere with the Emporia App on your mobile
It takes very accurate reading every second (resolution of 0.1W) and you can see all the peaks and troughs on a graph and even download the data in a spreadsheet!
My advice, take it or leave it: is to note what the speaker manufacturer recommends as a minimum power recommendation into the 8 Ohm load of the speaker, then note what the minimum (not nominal) impedance is, then double down the recommended power for each halving of impedance e.g. 10 Watts into 8 Ohms, 20 Watts into 4 Ohms, 40 Watts into 2 Ohms, etc.. When faced with a non-standard impedance, drop down to the lower standard amplifier rating, for example for 3 Ohm minimum speaker load go to the 2 Ohm standard amplifier ratings unless the amplifier manufacturer offers non-standard ratings (such as the Benchmark amps). Using that as a minimum power need. While room size and desired output levels will actually determine how much power one will need, as a general rule of thumb for most people, in most rooms will most probably be better suited by doubling the manufactures minimum power recommendations into that minimum impedance as noted above for satisfactory results. The important thing is actual power into that lowest impedance. I don't recommend relying on so called "stable into X load " claims, as that only means the amp won't go into osciallation when presented with that impedance. it is not a guarantee of power output or distortions levels into that load. Don't be swayed by manufacturers, dealers, etc., annecdotal suggestions; let them put it writting. Using the above considerations can go a long way towards preventing speaker damage, and offering satsifying sound.
There's nothing like a well designed class A amplifier to bring out the best performance in your speakers. I once owned an original Bedini 25/25 that was a nice match with my 15 ohm Rogers LS3/5A's. It was also supposed be a great match for the original QUAD ELS 57. The Bedini 10/10 was also a good choice for the ELS 57. One of the best sounding and most powerful class A amplifiers that I have ever heard is the Classe Audio DR3VHC. It was one of Classe Audio's first products when David Reich was running the company.
Anyone that listen at 113-115db are either def or stupid, or if doing it routinely maybe both?
If you are not def, is it then something you aspirer to be ?
Why would a music lover try to intentionally destroy one’s hearing?
As older we get our hearing for most people deteriorate and unfortunately for many it hinders their ability to function 100% in social gatherings and for some people they choose to redraw a bit from social life.
Also as it is now, there is nothing you can do if getting tinnitus which even is a much bigger problem.
i worry about the younger generation that blast music into their ear canal’s with in-ear headphones, I am guessing that most of them will have big hearing/tinnitus problems before they are 50!
Don’t get out much, do ya? Lots of folk go to a monthly concert. And they are played in the 113-115 range. Many times, much more than that. You think all those thousands of listeners at the live performances are going deaf? It better hurry up if it’s going to affect me. I’m almost 70 and have been around loud race cars my entire life.... (And a dash of music). You sound boring! But enjoy life however you want it, I know I have enjoyed the heck out of mine.
Most of the time, I'm using 1-2w listing to the radio. If I want to rock out, or make the house vibrate I use around 50-60w this is out of a 200w amp. At 100db (system can do well over 100db without clipping) at 60w, there will be 100+w peaks.
Since it takes double the power to produce 3db gain, it's good to have all the power, and use it when you want it. Generally a 200w amp will sound better at 50w, then a 50w amp at 50w. Plus staying that far under the amp's peak power produces much cleaner power to the speakers.
Most of the time, we will all be happy with a 20w amp, but I would never buy anything under 100w
As others have said, meters, even digital ones, are s-l-o-w. Even on digital recorders, the meters are too slow to see "transient peaks", which is one reason manufactures recommend recording with the "peaks you do see" topping out at -12dB. This allows enough headroom for those transients such that no clipping or compression takes place.
So yes, having more watts can be a good thing - as long as the slew rate of the amp is capable of keeping up with the music and offering those louder transients that might last less than 1/100th of a second, such that the music sounds as "real" as possible.
So, when you are looking at meters, you are more or less looking at what the continuous output power is, averaged over a significant fraction of a second, therefore yes, you will see that most of the time the amp is putting out 1W to 10W at even "loud" volumes.
If you need over 100 Watts to make your speaker really sing, you have a problem-the speaker might be criminally inefficient unless you are in a very large room.
I would agree, but practically speaking it’s hardly as much low efficiency as it is a difficult load caused by the passive crossover. A lot of amp power can be wasted here, sometimes forcing even several hundred watt and PSU-sturdy amps to their knees. Making matters worse though we mostly see the combination of low efficiency and difficult load, whereas conversely the combo of high efficiency and easy load - not least via active configuration and higher impedance - will make a given amp sound substantially better for a given SPL.
Low eff. in addition to difficult load is a sonic bottleneck that to some can’t be ignored, while to others it’s the only thing they know. To my ears it’s not unlike listening to speakers covered by a blanket - the music just never really frees.
The more power you need, quite often the harder it is for the amplifier to sound like real music. Most higher powered amps I’ve seen simply don’t, although they are pretty good at sounding like electronics.
That’s a popular notion, and I assume not without merit, but as you implicitly indicate there are exceptions. Both due to the specific amplifier design and because my actively configured high efficiency speakers - i.e.: high eff. in the entire frequency range, incl. the subs - present such an easy load to the 3 similar amps, each of them frequency limited to their respective driver segments and independent of the others’ load, the amps are given ideal working conditions and seeing their potential more or less maxed out.
To explain: a 625W amp (8 ohms) given only a ~620Hz on up signal driving a 111dB horn/compression driver combo coupled directly to its terminals with a close to pure ohm load will be cruising along with very low distortion - even at deafening levels. If it’s already a good design, and it is, it will see its performance envelope fulfilled in a way no passive, low efficiency speaker iteration with a single amp covering the entire frequency range can equal.
My Speakers are Harbeth C7ES-XD at 86db sensitivity. They are rated at up to 150 watts. Their impedance is 6 ohms with the lowest at 5.8 ohms. So an easy drive. But I've been told they like power. The Accuphase P4600 is rated at 150 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 300 watts at 4 ohms and the amp is probably capable of delivering 225 watts per channel at 6 ohms. I have them positioned in a well furnished carpeted room about 7 feet apart and 30" out from the front wall very slightly toed in. I sit about 8-9 ft from them. I have the meters set to freeze at the highest output and they have never exceeded 1 watt so far. Now I don't listen at some of the levels some of you do. My sound pressure meter never exceeds 75 db and is mostly between 60 and 70 db. If the meters are accurate I'm in Class A all the time and the amp is not breaking a sweat.
The success of the Pass 25 and other small-bore tube amps Indicates that's plenty for most applications. But remember this - speakers are current driven devices and benefit greatly from amps acknowledging that fact.
Most modern speakers are less than 8 ohms and so are quite current hungry. Also, loudness is logarithmic, so twice the power is only 3dB louder - a just noticeable difference. To sound twice as loud requires 10X the power. Also remember the limits of your speakers. KEF LS50s 84dB @ 1W/1M and 100W limits means they are limited to 104dB maximum output. A big JBL 4367 is at least 10dB more efficient and will handle 200W peaks for a max output of 117dB. The KEFs are meant for near field listening only a few feet away, the JBLs meant for a large room with the listener 10-15 feet away, so it all must be worked as a system, not just components in isolation. As for me, my 87dB Monitor Audio S300 7G and a solid 60W amp in my 12X16 room is plenty. In other systems, 200W was just adequate, and in another a 40W tube Mcintosh MC240 was fabulous. Lots of valid answers, just don't ignore physics.
@ifrmusic thanks for asking Accuphase support! being advanced analog circuit designer it’s not hard for me to estimate AB class amp linear (A class) range, sorry for not explaining to you all boring details of my calculation, which could be lengthy!
Still don’t understand how you calculated your number from those specs but you were on the money. Here’s the response from Accuphase.
The actual amount of Class A bias for the P-4600 is not a fixed amount and will vary depending on the load of the speaker. For most speakers it should have around 8W – 10W of class A bias but that could be less for speakers if they have less than 4 ohm impedance. The exact method for how Accuphase applies bias to its output transistors is considered proprietary information and they do not allow us to publish more than that.
Yep that's what I was looking at. 6 transistors per channel. Now I would be happy if I was getting 10 watts per channel in Class A. Please direct to where this is noted.
@jfrmusic I looked amp spec and schematics. A/B class P4600 increased idle power and number of output transistors to 12 in each channel, matching their A class amps. 20W is estimate of peak power for linear output transistors range, for both channels combined (2x10W)
@jfrmusic Accuphase output meters are accurate, you drive y’r amp at very low power, accordingly to Accuphase design P4600 is a class A amp till ~20W. You may crank it up to the max to see full power range!
That is my exact question. The meters never exceed 1 watt. Some here have said they are not accurate and don’t record peaks but I have them set to freeze at peaks.
@jfrmusic not sure about OP question.. Accuphase P4600 (congrats, it’s a good amp!) has output power indicators, which should help you to determine if you reach limit and need more Watts!
For the Harbeths, the Accuphase is way more than enough - watts and current.
The reason is the relatively flat impedance curve of the Harbeths pose a nice, easy load for the Accuphase to drive. Not that the Accuphase needs that easy load, with a damping factor of 800!
I finally bought kit with power meters and I use between .6 and 6 watts most of the time and it takes some kille rock to get the meters bumping up against 60w...So why did swapping out a 301 wpc source for a 600 wpc source make so much of a difference regarding dynamics and resolution at low volume? I really want to know.
is it watts that drive the speaker? (I know that if I put the + & - lead of my vm on the corresponding speaker posts. I get an AC volt reading which varies depending upon volume level.) But if it is watts that drive the speaker, and every watt is equal to every other watt, what is it that makes speakers sound different with different amps?
@immatthewjWatts drive the speaker. But most speakers are designed to be ’Voltage driven’. "Voltage driven’ is a short hand phrase that basically says the amp, while making power, should be able to act as a Voltage source, which in turn means that the amp can make the same Voltage regardless of load. You are familiar with what this looks like already: if the amp can double power as the speaker load impedance is halved, then its a Voltage source.
So the short hand can be confusing. However Voltage does not exist without current being present and vice versa. So in the end Watts are actually driving the speaker.
The reason amps sound different is how they make distortion on a particular speaker. Our ears convert distortion (harmonics) into tonality in the same way that harmonics of musical instruments define the tonality of those instruments. The ear is particularly sensitive to higher ordered harmonics (the 5th and above) since it uses them to tell how loud a sound actually is. But those harmonics can be masked from causing tonality if the 2nd and/or 3rd harmonic is high enough- this is why SETs seem to sound so musical despite having a lot more distortion (including higher orders) than any other kind of amp; the 2nd and 3rd harmonics are masking the higher orders.
Solid state amps often have much lower amounts of distortion overall, but the higher orders are not masked, causing the amp to sound brighter and harsher.
The most musical amplifiers are those that make very low amounts of distortion (SETs are typically 10% at clipping so they are right out) and that distortion will be the 2nd and /or 3rd harmonic, enough to mask any higher orders.
@invalidYes, that’s true. But they advertise that pesky current thing on their website- take a look (and click on 'specifications').
Now lets do the math:
Giving the amp the benefit of the doubt, we set the speaker load impedance to one Ohm. Using the Power formula thus the Power the amp makes is the current squared. This amp does not make 160,000 Watts! They claim 6000 Watts into 2 Ohms, so the current flowing at that time is only 54.77 Amps... and if it doubles power into 1 Ohm (which it probably can do but not to full power) it would be double the current or only 109.54 Amps.
Obviously that current spec is something entirely different!! Most likely its 400Amps that flows when the power supply is shorted out for 10mS. So its really a measure of the capacitance in the power supply rather than the current that the output section can produce.
@atmasphere , is it watts that drive the speaker? (I know that if I put the + & - lead of my vm on the corresponding speaker posts. I get an AC volt reading which varies depending upon volume level.) But if it is watts that drive the speaker, and every watt is equal to every other watt, what is it that makes speakers sound different with different amps?
I like the simplicity and purity of the SET. But I also prefer inefficient planar magnetic speakers (Magnepan 0.7 which is all quasi-ribbon because pure ribbons are too fragile). I let a globe 45 SET transformer couple to an 833A run at 1000 Volts and Hammond output transformers. This does not push it to high wattage, but easily drives such speakers well below audible distortion and is as loud as any concert hall.
Thanks for your comment, but I am pretty sure I understand current and how it relates to solid state amplifiers performance characteristics. Sorry, but the article you refer to is so poorly written as to escape making any sense to me, hats off to you if you can understand the techno babble, with a bit of some kind of marketing. I am familiar with ohms law.
@ghdprenticeI'm going with 'apparently not' in this case. The reason, which is pointed out in that article, is that current does not exist without Voltage and the two together make power according to this formula, which is quite simple:
1 Amp times 1 Volt = 1 Watt.
This means that if the amp can make the power, it has the current also. So it makes no difference if the amp is tube, solid state or class D.
When there is talk about current, absent of power, then its nonsense. For example, quite often solid state amps are advertised as having lots of current; not picking on anyone in the industry but I've seen '80 Amps' advertised many times.
Since Power is also (through algebra) equal to Resistance times Amperage squared, let's give the 80 Amps the benefit of the doubt and set Resistance to 1 Ohm. Thus the power is the Amperage squared. In the case of 80 Amps, that's 6400 Watts. To my knowledge there are no amps offered to high end audio that make that kind of power: Amps that make current beyond the power they also make do not exist.
If you think otherwise you are engaging in a myth. That is why I linked the article.
Anyone that listen at 113-115db are either def or stupid, or if doing it routinely maybe both?
If you are not def, is it then something you aspirer to be ?
Why would a music lover try to intentionally destroy one’s hearing?
As older we get our hearing for most people deteriorate and unfortunately for many it hinders their ability to function 100% in social gatherings and for some people they choose to redraw a bit from social life.
Also as it is now, there is nothing you can do if getting tinnitus which even is a much bigger problem.
i worry about the younger generation that blast music into their ear canal’s with in-ear headphones, I am guessing that most of them will have big hearing/tinnitus problems before they are 50!
I have a bunch, and I’m thinking I use almost all of them. 1000 each in my Legacy IV 2 Amplifier. It runs the Legacy Focus SE’s Mains. 600 each in my 5 channel Legacy IV 5. It runs my Side Phantom’s and Rear Deco's plus the Center Marquis. All are Legacy. Not sure about the 4 subs I have. They are Legacy Foundations and have 1000 each. I invite folks over and we play video Concerts. I try to keep the system humming at 113-115 DB with my Tripplet meter. It’s better than a true live concert. The punch is unbelievable. Favorite is the Eagle’s Farewell tour. Just killer. We are 10 feet back from the soundstage. 65-inch Sony Q-Led does the video. System never heats up, and we always play the entire two-hour concerts. Can lay your hand on the Amps and they are barely warm. Sometimes we pause as I get questions about the system and its impossible to talk. But I USE my system.
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