30 to 50 watts seems to be all I desire

I have owned massive amps in the past. My reason for owning them wasn’t to do with the volume control, it had to do with the current they could produce allowing for for fast full rises in transients. This would support greater slam as well.

Certainly 30 to 50 watts is usually plenty to power most speakers, especially in a small room.

I’ve driven Maggies with an Onkyo 45 watt amp. Sounded wonderful. I also fried a HK stereo receiver that claimed 100 watts.

35 watt (tube monos) for me too.

I haven't had more than 17 watts here in 15 years with no problems and great sound.

My minimum is 60 solid watts per channel. That will work at my listening levels, less with more efficient speakers. I only need more when I'm trying to impress someone, not for normal listening. 

Just out of curiosity, did you check to see if there was an impedance mismatch between your amp and preamp? I had a similar problem with an Audible Illusions preamp going into an Ayre V3. I could not get past 9 o'clock on the preamp without blowing myself out of the room. It was because the V3 had a 10K input impedance which was not high enough to work with most tube preamps and not because the V3 had too much power.

If you have already looked into this ignore me but my experience with Maggie's (2.7's only many years ago) is that they like lots of power to play well. Good Luck!

@joey54 You getting too high of a volume, past 9 o’clock, has nothing to do with an impedance mismatch. It is the high gain on your preamp combined with the gain of your amplifier. The impedance mismatch may cause a roll off on the bass from your speakers.

A couple of comments. First, the position of the volume control on the preamp doesn’t tell you how much power is being used by the speakers. One is at the mercy of the recording volume, the output of the source/DAC/preamp, plus the input sensitivity of the amp and the efficiency of the speakers. I’ve seen systems where having the volume knob at 4 or 5 o’ clock gives a modest volume and other setups where 9 or 10 o’clock is overly loud and distorted.

Also, playback volume and power needed in watts have a logarithmic relationship. A 3 dB increase in volume requires double the power. Twice as loud requires ten times the power.

Hence, one of the critical issues revolves around an individual’s max preferred listening level. Headbangers with inefficient speakers in a large room need a LOT of power. Others, like me, rarely break the mid-80s in terms of dBs.

Like the OP, I found that I simply don’t need a lot of power. My class A Schiit Aegir (40 w/ch at 4 ohms) gives me way more volume that I ever need. Of course, having a separately powered subwoofer takes a load off that amp and the main speakers.

The key is to experiment with what it takes to make YOU happy.

Low power class A SS amps here as well. Small room’s and lower listening volumes.  

It is the gain on both the preamp and power amp that effects the use of the volume control.

I have a tubed pre, with adj. gain, combined with a 27db of gain on my amp. The pre`s gain set to 16 db= too loud; volume at 9:00, the pre`s gain set to 8 db= too loud; vol.  at 12:00.

I also have a low gain integrated w/ passive preamp section with a gain of 20 db. Unfortunately for me, I had to turn the vol. knob all the way to 2:00 for same level of volume.

@audiodwebe 

Caveat:  Listening to mainly Jazz at volumes less than 85db, normally.

This explans in large part your outcome and the fact that you listen in a modest size room. Quality of your amplifier has more bearing than the quantity of watts. Your scenario makes perfect sense to me.

As others have pointed out, the limited volume control usage range is a reflection of excess gain in an audio system and is not due to too much amplifier power. The higher the sensitivity of your speakers or amplifiers the less preamplifier gain is needed. If your digital source or phono cartridge is high voltage output,  the less gain you require. 

Charles 

I’m down from 255wpc with a Hafler DH-500 to 17 wpc from Dyna/VTA 70 with KT66 in triode mode. Plenty loud for me with average efficiency speakers in a 24x24 ft room, and sounds amazing.

The AVERAGE watts even on inefficient speakers playing loud is only in the low single digits. Even an avreage twenty watts would either drive you out of the room or else make youd deaf. Power is used for very, very short term transients which can be 20 to 30 dB(20 Db is a multiplier of 100). These transients are very short and good amps recover from the overload very quickly. But even good amps clip these transients and weaken the fidelity. If you want the best sound as my old friend George Bischoff(Melos amps, 200 and 400 watts triode) said - a good big un will beat a good little un every time.

I have three amps, the “biggest” being rated at 6.5 watts per channel (parallel single-ended 2a3).  I bought a pushpull 349 amp from an Italian builder.  I had the amp for a couple of years and had no idea of its output capability.  When He came here for a visit, I asked him, out of curiosity, what was the output capability of the amp.  I could see that he was annoyed by such an irrelevant question; he thought for a brief moment and threw out a number—around 5.5 watts.

Listening to mainly Jazz at volumes less than 85db, normally.

I used to listen close to 90dB when I was younger(20+ to early 30s) with peaks hitting 100dB. Now a lot older, my average listening volume is 65dB. At these levels, any amp would do it.

I occasionally listen at 70 to 75dB only for a short period of say 10 to 15 minutes.

The average SPLs I recorded with the Radioshack meter (~65dB).

 Power requirements can be all over the place depending on speaker efficiency, volume, room size, and even more. To get to the point, so many years ago, I had speakers with 103db sensitivity. They were horns of course. I ran SS mono blocks rated at 90 WPC, and the meters never moved, nor should they. The bass was like I have never heard since, but midrange horn was not so good.

  My point is that there are too many variables to set yourself thinking about a certain amount of power before understanding the needs of your listening experience in the first place. 

Another component to this topic is the input/output sensitivity of preamp/amp. I had a Decware Torii Junior, 20 wpc, with a preamp, Canary C630, max gain of 9db. Couldn't get over 90db volume (at 10') with preamp wide open. Tried a Rogue Audio RP-7, with 14db gain, could not get even 70db listening volume cranked up. 

Input sensitivity of the Decware amp is set to 2 volts, most are 1 volt or less. So it takes twice the preamp signal to get to same volume. I now have a PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, with input sensitivity of 1.2 volts. Almost the opposite issue now, same Canary preamp, volume set at 2 of 10, dB listening volume is plenty, 85+. At 4, music transients are >100dB. 

Addendum

The PrimaLuna I referenced has 72wpc with current output tubes, so in a different class than the Decware. But input sensitivity of amp is still relevant. 

That Decware amp had gorgeous sound though! Just wish that input sensitivity was adjustable, 20 watts might have been plenty.

I own the Magnepan.7’s and l have two amps A VAC PA 100 100 tube amp and a Spectron musical MK lll SS amp As you know Maggie’s love watts/current My VAC sounds magical with the Maggie’s at 100 watts per side But when l use my Spectron with 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm and the capability of producing 60 amps for 500 milliseconds, it really makes the Maggie’s come alive with dynamics, inner detail and sound stage

Watch "magnepan 7's doing their thing" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/bofnCCYuR48

14 wpc [tube] for my Bozaks, 100 wpc [tube] for my JBL’s, 850 wpc [ss] for my Maggie’s. Different tools for different applications. I listen to many genre - mostly old school: jazz, rock, country, blues, R&B, bluegrass - all of it! [and like you, not terribly loud - medium volumes]

I agree with the OP…30-50 watts is adequate. I’m running a Pass XA-25 and it has driven everything I’ve wanted beautifully. 300B’s are probably in my future, so less power still. 

there is a difference between a speaker being sufficiently driven versus the same speaker being driven to show all it can do at higher volumes

alot depends on the type of music, how much dynamic range is needed

smaller wattage amps often do the mids and nuances very well, but will sound compressed and/or flabby/unconvincing in the bass when the music become more dynamic

big power amps might not be as highly tactile at lower volumes but will provide a great sense of ease and naturalness as the music becomes more dynamic and complex

the sweet spot in all this depends on the specific case... speakers, taste of listener, type of music listened to, room, and volume levels

Less is more...its the "first watt"....as they say.....my class A 30 watt amp is superior to most.....at least to me ears....and that's all that matters....

What about the song 10,000 watts? Sure made Noriega give up. 

I stay at 25-35% 60-75db. Mercy the wife will punch it. I grab the Rabbit and boogie. 90-100db. Nelly Furtado seems to trigger that with her, Me I'm more of a classical guitar guy with congas, or tumbadoras. Shelia E. kinda guy.. 

I listen to a MC225 all the time. 25 wpc. Some things you just don't mess with, that little amp is one of a kind sound for sure. Nothing sounds like a MC225, it's fun.

Regards

I think like this.

We have speakers that has efficiency ex 86 db/w/m.

So we will use more or less 1 watt to reach our desired sound pressure in 86db.

Therefore if we use 5w amp OR 500w amplifier we will ALWAYS be using ~1w disregarding what ever of amp you're using.

But I am not saying that a 5w amp is enough that is not my point.

When looking at what Paul M at PS audio is saying.

• A over dimension toroidal then the electric circuit needed. Will give be beneficial for sound quality and they usually use bigger than needed.

Another point is that when we know that 98% of all speakers need only one watt to satisfy us.

Why is that so that most of the times it is the biggest and heaviest and most powerful amp is the one that reviewers tend to think is the best sounding one. Even if smaller models in the same amplifier line and brand.

Then what is the difference of all amplifiers that all of them is enough to drive our speakers.

Despite more complex design with more number of transistors (of the same kind) to give more watt out (that we probably do NOT need and probably the higher parts count will not contribute to better sound quality or reliability.)

But on the other hand what do the bigger amplifier have than the smaller ones don't? Yes when we sit there and listening to our 1w then the bigger amplifier has a bigger toroidal and bigger capacitors.

That is the practical difference and the path to better sound quality as i see it. And my two Satoshi.

@dynamiclinearity said "Power is used for very, very short term transients which can be 20 to 30 dB"

This misrepresents what is actually on recordings. Over two decades, I transferred over 1,000 LPs -- from rock to classical -- from LP to digital format, so spent a lot of time watching loudness levels during the transfer, using Adobe Audition. I've never seen a recording where the average loudness level allowed for 20 or 30 dB peaks.

Now, lots of recordings have "dynamic range" in excess of 30 dB, but that includes the soft parts -- perhaps a solo instrument being softly played during an orchestral recording.  But, the quieter parts of a recording are supposed to be played at a soft level.  Those soft parts are well below the average level.

Then there are rock recordings where one often sees the average level almost at the max level permitted by the media -- one may be lucky to have 3 dB peaks in such recordings -- remember the loudness wars?

Simply put, if your average recorded level is -6 dB, there is simply no place to put a 30 dB peak transient.  If it existed in the live music, its been lopped off in the recording. LPs are slightly different from digital recordings, but they also have their limits, too.

In short, to have a 30 dB peak transient on a digital recording, the average playback level would have to be 30 dB down. There aren't very many recordings that meet that criteria.

I use a Keces E40.  Measured 34 watts/61 watts at 8/4 ohms when it reaches 0.7% distortion.  Company claims up to 15 amps/channel max output.

It's a little powerhouse that's on the warmer and smoother side but retains lots detail with really good separation and stage depth.  I also own a Hegel which I may sell as the Keces is really doing it for me.

Preferred it over other amps I tried from Emotiva, Musical Fidelity M2si and Rega Brio, among others. The Emotiva had a bit more extended highs but flabbier bass and sounded 2D to me.  The M2si was gritty to me, lacked refinement and sounded more like a PA amp.   The Brio is nice enough, but more expensive and I still like the Keces better.

So, lower power but still robust for an affordable price.  IMO.

Mark Schneider, owner of Linear Tube Audio uses a single ZOTL40 to power his Maggie’s. I’ve heard them in his home and the synergy is spectacular.

I drive really low efficiency speakers (86 dB electrostatics) with 45 watts (big Class A watts, but only a max of 45 of them) with no need for any more.

Had big amps in the past, Perreaux, Krell, etc. but now go tubing with a 30 Watt Triode/60 Ultra-linear Cary piece. Can't see myself ever going back unless I absolutely fall in love (again) with a power hungry speaker. System symmetry is paramount. Have to pay close attention to what components get mated togther. I'm in the pocket right now with my modest setup

In my experience a 45-50W amp + 90-92dB speakers is a sweet spot if you are looking for a seriously good sound for sane money.

My current LTA Z40 is about 48W at 6 Ohm, its' volume control goes from 0 to100, and I mostly listen at 4 to 6. The speakers are 91dB.

I could probably use a 10W amp, but a bit of a headroom never goes amiss. And the tubes are never stretched.