Watts! How many do we need?

atmasphere wrote:

If you need over 100 Watts to make your speaker really sing, you have a problem-the speaker might be criminally inefficient unless you are in a very large room.

I would agree, but practically speaking it’s hardly as much low efficiency as it is a difficult load caused by the passive crossover. A lot of amp power can be wasted here, sometimes forcing even several hundred watt and PSU-sturdy amps to their knees. Making matters worse though we mostly see the combination of low efficiency and difficult load, whereas conversely the combo of high efficiency and easy load - not least via active configuration and higher impedance - will make a given amp sound substantially better for a given SPL.

Low eff. in addition to difficult load is a sonic bottleneck that to some can’t be ignored, while to others it’s the only thing they know. To my ears it’s not unlike listening to speakers covered by a blanket - the music just never really frees.

The more power you need, quite often the harder it is for the amplifier to sound like real music. Most higher powered amps I’ve seen simply don’t, although they are pretty good at sounding like electronics.

That’s a popular notion, and I assume not without merit, but as you implicitly indicate there are exceptions. Both due to the specific amplifier design and because my actively configured high efficiency speakers - i.e.: high eff. in the entire frequency range, incl. the subs - present such an easy load to the 3 similar amps, each of them frequency limited to their respective driver segments and independent of the others’ load, the amps are given ideal working conditions and seeing their potential more or less maxed out.

To explain: a 625W amp (8 ohms) given only a ~620Hz on up signal driving a 111dB horn/compression driver combo coupled directly to its terminals with a close to pure ohm load will be cruising along with very low distortion - even at deafening levels. If it’s already a good design, and it is, it will see its performance envelope fulfilled in a way no passive, low efficiency speaker iteration with a single amp covering the entire frequency range can equal.

nitrobob wrote:

Anyone that listen at 113-115db are either def or stupid, or if doing it routinely maybe both?

If you are not def, is it then something you aspirer to be ?

Why would a music lover try to intentionally destroy one’s hearing?

Such levels isn’t the goal nor point of having a high SPL-capable amp-speaker system domestically - not to me, that is - but rather that the ability here pays off at lower levels and to have the desired max. peak levels reproduced cleanly and wholly effortlessly. Referring to my own context above it’s about "super cruising" (aviation term) at any desired SPL, but also and not least that such a system is of a very different physical stature compared to most typical home speakers, and that in itself is a major aspect sonically. Few seem to realize this.

A speaking of which: for some reason many audiophiles almost feel offended or put off by the prospect of very high SPL capability in a speaker setup, concluding that it automatically means blowing off your ears at concert levels and being of a very young or immature mindset, contrary to the sophisticated, experienced 60+ years audiophile who sips at his glass of (expensive) red wine while savoring the soprano voices of Delibes’ Lakmé opera at 65-70dB’s from his low efficiency high-end speakers.

Well, what can one say other than throwing back the ’inexperienced’ accusation at those who don’t know any better here.

As older we get our hearing for most people deteriorate and unfortunately for many it hinders their ability to function 100% in social gatherings and for some people they choose to redraw a bit from social life.

Also as it is now, there is nothing you can do if getting tinnitus which even is a much bigger problem.

i worry about the younger generation that blast music into their ear canal’s with in-ear headphones, I am guessing that most of them will have big hearing/tinnitus problems before they are 50!

Absolutely agree.

Don’t get out much, do ya? Lots of folk go to a monthly concert. And they are played in the 113-115 range. Many times, much more than that. You think all those thousands of listeners at the live performances are going deaf? It better hurry up if it’s going to affect me. I’m almost 70 and have been around loud race cars my entire life.... (And a dash of music). You sound boring! But enjoy life however you want it, I know I have enjoyed the heck out of mine.

I only just turned 50 some 3 years ago, and it’s been over 20 years since I last treated myself to a very loud, large and "unfiltered" amplified concert experience (Depeche Mode’s Exciter tour, which almost got the better of me). Since then I’ve protected my ears hysterically at such large scale and very loud concert events, and I now mostly attend live acoustic, classical concerts.

Boring? Not in the least, but who am I to tell a seasoned race car junkie with a splash of music exposure to boot.

nitrobob wrote:

Yea, I’m serious. Here is my in car camera view of one of the thousands of passes I’ve made in the last 25 years of driving one of these things. 

Top fuel? Wicked, your username certainly makes sense now. Those engines with that kind of fueling makes a physically felt havoc of noise. 

Loud? Most certainly. But I like music loud also, when its called for.

Maybe you need music loud for that very reason ;)