I'm looking for a short length of speaker cables, which i need to be as warm as possible..
Price wise, looking at USD700 and below for 1m length pair.
it'll be placed in between an Apollon stereo 1et400a power amp and a RAAL-requisite SR1a speaker adaptor box. The SR1a is ruthless and clinical and I am looking to add as much warmth as I can.
Assume the rest of the gear and interconnects have been decided/cannot be swapped out. So just left with the speaker cables to sort out.
I've been told the following are good candidates: Kimber 8TC Tellurium Q Black II Tellurium Ultra Blue
Why? Is there some kind of "audiophile" rule that we need to comply by?
If you have overly bright speakers then maybe buy a warmer sounding speaker such as a British made speaker, wharfedale, tannoy, spendor, harbeth, etc..
Ok, so rather than swapping out cables to solve a possible brightness issue that would cost him $500 - $1,000 to change, you suggest swapping out speakers that may cost $1,000 - $10,000 or even more to change?
I was using Monster Power Line 3 cables. But I noticed a big difference when I auditioned Vampire Wire continuous cast copper. I ran them between to KEF Reference 104.2 speakers and an Onkyo Integra M 504 amp.
I guess the idea is they can stretch the copper crystals to be up to 20+ feet long so that on a short run, you are never going through more than two copper crystals at a time.
When friends came over I would do a blind A/B/A/B type demonstration and each person could tell a difference and preferred the Vampire Wire to the Monster Power Line 3 cables.
Even people who did not care much about Hi-Fi preferred the sound with the Vampire Wire cables.
I don't know how these would compare to the cables you mentioned but, for me they definitely warmed up the sound. I had tighter bass and smoother midrange and treble.
My question is why would you want "warm" speaker cables? Don't you want accuracy? If you want warm sound, just turn the treble tone control down or use an EQ.
@docroasty… ‘I think, if you get the chance, you really have to try the Raal SR1a ribbon headphones for yourself to understand what I’m trying to achieve.”
Interesting you bring up headphone systems. Really good headphones simply reflect the nature of the signal which they are feed. Perhaps I can say something helpful. I have Focal Utopia and Sennheiser 820s among others. They take on very different sound depending on the amp and source equipment I attach to them converging to be nearly indistinguishable and absolutely perfect with my Massive Woo WA5 headamp. You can see my systems if you click on my user name.
What equipment are you using to drive your headphones?
Increasingly I am more convinced this is a system component issue. Your system components should sound perfect if the system is well matched and of high quality and Cale’s should simply make them sound more like they already sound.
I see your amp… did you mention your source components and preamp? I think a careful review of components would be worthwhile.
My question is why would you want "warm" speaker cables? Don’t you want accuracy?
If a system sounds a little cold, a warm sounding SC may get it to sound neutral - I.e. a more accurate reflection of the original sound. Or get it to sound more to your taste even if not necessarily accurate.
If you want warm sound, just turn the treble tone control down or use an EQ.
Tone controls don’t have the same effect a cable swap. You also need to consider an EQ means adding an additional component and an additional interconnect which will definitely reduce accuracy vs. a one-for-one trade of speaker cables which probably won’t reduce accuracy.
That said, many folks do use tone controls and EQs, so they are viable alternatives
The previous generation of Cardas (that includes Golden Cross, and the other "Golden" models) is generally a little warmer than the current generation, as the prevailing taste was moving in that direction (more "neutral"). The Cardas Golden ICs and SCs are sought after on the used market and still command decent prices--check USAudioMart and ebay.
The Puritan 156 is excellent and the one power "conditioner" (whatever you want to call it) that made a significant and totally positive improvement to the system. But it didn't make it warmer--to fall back on a hoary cliché, there was overall just more there there.
I have used the Canare 4S11 star quad cables with my Epos M22 speakers in biwire mode and the sound is very smooth, but also well detailed. They are quite inexpensive as high end speaker cables go.
I have had these great Epos flagship speakers for some years and they sound really sweet but their metal dome tweeters can sometimes be a little too sharp. The Canares do a very nice job taming the highs when needed and replaced Kimber and Audioquest cables I had tried before.
Dull might even be a better word. They do great at enhancing imaging but you pay the terrible price of immediacy and high end output. This possibly makes them good matches for B&W and Focals
I have heard discussion about cables and RCA interconnects for years. And I know there are those that swear by a particular brand name interconnect or speaker cable. That’s perfectly fine with me, everyone has their own desires on where they want to spend their money. The Immediate answer to the question of sounding “warm” would be that I would suggest you look into vacuum tube amplifiers. The “warmth” you are speaking of will be more apparent. Even with my old ears that signature is evident. With a 35 year electronics career and 12 years of building amplifiers there are some technical differences in cables and that would be “capacitance”. If you wind two insulated wires together and not shorting anywhere along its length there is an apparent measurable capacitance. That capacitance albeit very very low, is the only characteristic that could possibly affect audio. Cable Manufactures try to get that as low as possible mostly in RCA interconnects. When it comes to these large gauge speaker cables the capacitance is almost immeasurable! So if you can tell the difference between a 50 picofarad or 250 picofarad cables, more power to you!
I buy good components and build all of my own interconnects and I buy a reasonably priced medium gauge speaker cable and put good quality connectors on them. But, then again that’s just me and not all people can build their own.
I think it comes back to the concept of a Maserati sitting in your garage impresses people a lot more than Chevy.
system 2 (with which i will be using the RAAL) sonore optical module deluxe sotm sms200ultra neo + afterdark clock Holo May KTE Apollon stereo 1et400a purifi
both systems with AQ niagara 1200, as well as Keces P8 and Farad Super 3 lps.
@pauly thanks! your sentiments on cables and EQ echo mine.
@twoleftears i have the cardas clear reflection in the system between the pre and power amp, and it is one of my favourite interconnects. i had the golden presence, and also stupidly sold off a set of unused golden reference. i will look into their line of speaker cables.
@
troidelover1499 i do have a spare set of Canare 4S11 star quads lying around somewhere! need to go dig those out from the store room... i used those to test some speakers briefly and then put them away. at least i will have something to compare with.
@tubegeek1950 oh i most definitely agree.. i love the sound a tube amplifier brings to the table. i do have a tube headphone amp with pre capability; it is in my other system, but am able to move it around to hook it up into the intended Raal chain. Will see if it "warms" the sound up much.
@czarivey lol I wish there was a way to upvote your post! It should be an industry standard for manufactures to put your warmth rating for cables on their websites.. Haha!
Get on the merry go round. I stayed for a year, lost my deposit after giving up on every trial cable sent my way. Those cables did not give the rise I was looking for and finally I was pointed to Iconoclast by the company that took my deposit money. I read on this forum it's all about the geometry but did not entirely grasp what that meant. Geometry balances frequency, capacitance, resistance and inductance.
So here is something inexpensive and will make your rig any coloration or brightness or lack off for 150 usd schiit Loki+ Tone control, But it only comes with rca so if you run balanced you need a converter cables. It has a bypass so you only use it when you want without any affect I’ve tested it so have many others. I’m a headphone nut. Have 15 HP’s,8 IEM’s I use it to add +3 db bass on my sennheiser hd 600, which are famous for great vocals but lean on bass. You don’t need a lot to improve. You can trim your high a few db or raise lower mids as you want when you want. Like I said with it bypass use it when you want. I only use when I want a little more a little less every once in while. Only problem is they’re so popular that it took 2 months to get mine. It maybe easier now. Good luck from a brother Audiophile.
If speaker cables color sound like a tone control, I would think you would have 4 or 5 different types of cable depending on the recordings you are listening to. Perhaps a brighter cable to get the most out of a very warm recording. Perhaps a warm cable to tame a bright recording. Or perhaps use a cheaper, neutral cable and tweak the tone control.
Hello, I get it. A lot of people do not know that Straightwire makes the cables for several high end headphone brands. If anyone company can help its Straightwire. Call Straightwire direct in Florida to ask them what you need. It’s bot about how much money but how to get the sound. This is a puzzle they can solve. Good luck. The Puritan 136 is 90% of the 156. At $1600 it’s a steel. That is info for the future. I know your focus is on the cables right now.
All speaker wires must come in the following temperature configurations: Warm Medium-Warm Medium-Cold Cold.
Maybe Tide should come out with a line of cables. 🤔
But honestly folks, if your system is a tad bright and you need warm sounding cables to ameliorate that, that will not take you back to neutrality. It's just a sideways move to make it more pleasant sounding, which is what the OP was asking for.
Raven Audio makes some decent cables. They're a tube amp company (Nighthawk is stellar, and would give the likes of Hegel 95 a run for their money), and their cables kind of carry this sound signature. This is just my ear's review.
First cables are most definitely tone controls or there wouldn’t be so many successful cable companies on the market, and many 20+ years in business. There’s definitely a difference between cables unless one simply has a system that is not revealing, they have poor hearing or maybe just a bit hardheaded.
Kimber makes nice cables but 8TC is far from a warm cable. As others have mentioned stay away from silver or silver plated copper conductors. Cardas and WyWires are both copper litz cables and tend to have an open, natural presentation that many call warm. Silver cables tend to be very revealing and some are great and some can sound a little cold. I think plated, at least my experience can sound a little harsh or fatiguing. If you drop Alex of WyWires an email of your system and what you’re looking for, he can build you a cable more on the warmer side… assuming you believe they’re tone controls.
@adg101 thanks for the info and suggestions! Very useful. I have some wywires items (had the headphone cable, and have power cords on order) but have not tried their interconnects or speaker cables.
This is turning out to be a nice discussion on speaker cables. Thanks, everyone, for all the input provided. I appreciate hearing from both sides.
I placed an order for a short length of deulund speaker cables from partsconnexion and am awaiting delivery. I figure they were "cheap" enough to just give them a go. I am still going to get another one or two sets of speaker cables to try out. And I have a friend who is going to lend me his tellurium Q black ii.
I bought the Kimber 8s based on a Roy's recommendation for my sensitive hearing. Like them for $300. They are much warmer than say Nordost but I have not tried everything.
That said my friend Danny Richie is now offering a cable that will be well under your price and comes with a 30 day trial. GR Research. Assembly required.
Not sure how this would translate to you RAAL headphones, but I’ve warmed up my sound by wiring a low value cap across the amp terminals. You can get a couple of inexpensive orange drop caps to see if it works and determine which value hits the spot. When you find a value that does what you want you can get a quality film cap.
I used mainly 100nF and 47nF, but you can drop the value much lower if you feel it attenuated the tops too much.
Top shelf 100nF film caps can be had for around $30 a pop.
I bought the Kimber 8s based on a Roy's recommendation for my sensitive hearing. Like them for $300. They are much warmer than say Nordost but I have not tried everything.
while i agree kimbers are warmer than nordosts, that hardly make them warm
Actually you're misinformed OCC single Crystal copper has no Crystal barriers in 125 m so when they make cables out of it you have no Crystal barriers in it.
Zip wire. You think you can actually hear differences in wire, you’re hearing things. I hear absolutely no difference, even though I don’t own zip wire. But I don’t own $5k speaker cables either!
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