Looking to take my first venture into the tube world and going with a tube preamp. My budget is up to $2500 and willing to buy used or new however realize with my budget that used is probably a better path. I would like to have a built-in MM phone stage. I am use to having a remote and tone controls, so that would be nice however not a necessity.
For further information my speakers are Revel Performa3 F206 and the current amp(s) is Conrad Johnson SA-250 and I also have a Rotel RB1552. I many be looking for an amp upgrade in the future, but one thing at a time.
So far I have been looking at used Audio Research and Conrad Johnson preamps but very open to opinions on brand and model. Thanks and I look forward to your opinions and experiences.
Audio Research and Conrad Johnson are outstanding choices. ARC was my first solid piece of audio equipment. Built to last truly audiophile quality so will sound great regardless of age. If I was starting over it would be these two brands I would concentrate on.
Now, over the last 40 years I slowly worked my way up the Audio Research ladder and added more pieces and more contemporary ones. Now my system is all Audio Research Reference equipment (click on my user name, you can see my systems). I also found greater synergy between the pieces.
Recently there was for sale, used, a Quicksilver Linestage for $875 and a Belles SA-100 mono block pair for $1900. That would have been an incredible deal. The Belles is gone, but the Linestage might still be out there. That leaves you a reasonable amount for a good amp. Buying, new, however -- integrated would be a good way to go.
CJ ET3se preamps are the newest entry level I can find. You can get a phono card for it from CJ. Then there is the older CT6. Both will serve you well. FWIW I have the CT5. Enjoy
Audio Research and CJ are at opposite ends of the sonic spectrum.
the sonic gap has been narrowing for some time now, at this point, their top of line pieces are rather convergent.... c-j gat and arc ref 6/10 are both very extended, impactful, excellent bass drive, with tube beauty and richness in the midband, and expansive, deep quite specific soundstaging
days of crystal clear fast grounded arc vs c-j’s honey colored beauty with sloppy bass and rolled off treble date back to circa 2000, when the arc sp-16 and c-j pv12 were current
c-j still dedicated to single ended connections while arc top stuff is balanced only... that is a major distinction that persists
seller says no returns, but you can buy the square trade 1 yr warranty, and you are always covered by eBay/Paypal, no risk really.
IMO, given the speaker’s 88 sensitivity, start with Tube Preamp into your existing amps, then get ready for either more efficient speakers for future tube amps, or bigger tube amps for those speakers, and who knows what other speakers in the future.
I recently had a loaner c-j PV5 while my preamp was in the shop and I was shocked and how good it sounded. I think for more of a tube sound look at some of the older c-j preamps in the PV series.
Recently went back to tube mono blocks and tubed preamp. I can honestly say that I find the Rogue Audio RP-1 to be quite amazing for its price. Variable loading for the phono cartridge and it sounds very good, plenty of inputs and dual preamp outs, remote and the tube options are plentiful should one wish to roll for flavoring.
I've had plenty of pieces over the years and the RP-1 strikes a chord with me like the Krell KSP-7b did moons ago, Find it extremely enjoyable to listen to for hours at a time. Worth some research since it falls well under your budget.
What you are looking it are good choices audio research is the best tube pre amp i have heard the other was a used audioprism, which is another alternative to the others also a good used sonic frontiers would also be an option.
I recently got a Don Sachs DS2. By far, It’s the best component upgrade I have made to my system. Don is semi-retired now so it’s a 10-12 week wait to get one once you're in the queue. I highly recommend it and the cost is only slightly over your budget.
A used modwright LS100 might be in your budget. Great preamp in that price range. Not too "tubey" sounding, but has the tube magic and responds well to tube rolling.
Unless you can get one of the above name brand pieces used you can see if you can get something from the Backert labs line used. But all that may be a stretch. Integrated would be a good way to go. But if you are happy with your amp, for a starter tube preamp you can’t go wrong with a Schiit Freya+. You will be way under budget and have some money remaining to get a better than starter used phono stage.
I'm surprised Schiit gets no props in this conversation...A tubester Freya +, Loki (tone control if you want) and a Mani phono preamp all new and warrantied for about half the OP's number. I'm a Freya/Loki user and both are superb sounding high end gems...plus if you don't like 'em, send 'em back.
Hello SPeter, I used several tube preamplifiers and have finally settled down with Atma Sphere brand, which is made in USA. I live in Paris. Here in Europe we have many higly regarded manufacturers specialized in tube gear like Jadis, Ear Yoshino, Audio Note, Quad etc. I ended up my search of ideal amplification (tube pre+amp) with an american product, simply because Atma Sphere products are very particular and personaly I enjoy them the most. I'm saying this after testing or owning many highly regarded products (I've been an audiophile since 1995). In your budget on S/H market my first choice would be Atma Sphere MP-3, and my second choice would be Ear Yoshino 868. You may need a couple of $$$ more to acquire them, but this will be also your last preamplifier. Do not go for young brands, stuff made in china, and other products "à la mode". Mastering of tube technology needs a longtime experience & dedicated hand-made hard work. So, only a couple of brands still have time and well-trained people to do it correctly.
A word of caution when buying Conrad Johnson do your homework they sound wonderful but they run There tubes hard therefore you’ll be going through tubes and it has a tendency to get noisy I am a previous owner of the Classic 120 SE Amp and ET7 Pre I discussed this with Conrad Johnson and they were on able to rectify the situation! Best of luck
You might want to consider a new Rogue RP1 or maybe you can find a used RP5. Also might be able to find a used Modwright. In my opinion both companies are US based, offer great value and great customer support. They are also stand alone companies offering newer design, components and resale. Both great businesses to work with if needed.
I recently purchased an SRC SP6B from a reputable used dealer for less than $1000.00
It is fantastic in my system. I used to sell ARC products, and they are the one brand I would always look to for a pre-amp.
However, WATCH the years and models. Some are much better than others. Your budget will probably not allow to get the latest ones, but by just a quick check on ebay, there are at least 6 available in your budget.
Check the reviews and write-ups first, and check other used sources. You will be happy you did!
You might want to consider a new Rogue RP1 or maybe you can find a used RP5. Also might be able to find a used Modwright. In my opinion both companies are US based, offer great value and great customer support. They are also stand alone companies offering newer design, components and resale. Both great businesses to work with if needed.
Check out a Black Ice Fusion F360, although you'd need to add a phono preamp to hit your target. Plenty of those to choose from. This has some innovative tone/eq circuits built in.
OP, when I was shopping for a pre the brands you listed were high on my list. I went with a Mcintosh C2500 and I had to save longer but it has been worth it. The 2500 reacts nicely to tube rolling, has two phono sections, MM & MC and of course it's a Mac. As previously posted here, look for Mcintosh C2300 it's older and therefore a bit cheaper.
Herron Audio VTSP-3A-R03. It does not have a phono. Check for it at US Audio Mart. Audible Illusions M3B would be nice too. It has MM phono, but does not have a remote.
I strongly second Aric Audio! I have had, Mac, Pass Labs, Don Sachs, and ARC, to name but a few. I have the original Motherlode, but his mid level gear is what drew me into his line initially. Give him a call...he is great to work with and a credit to the audiophile community.
VTL Ultimate, separate volume controls, well with-in your budget, beautiful little tube pre-amp with an outstanding phono stage. You will not be disappointed.
I’ve been using an Audible Illusions M3a with the regular phono stage and the CJ Sonographe SA 250 amp the OP mentions he has for a couple of years now and very happy with the performance. With Kef R3’s. I also have a Motif C9 linestage pre either with a Primare or McCormack phono stage that I play with from time to time using the Sonographe. All combos have been satisfying to me. The downside to the Audible Illusions is it’s quirks. Dual volumes, high gain, maybe issues with repair from factory etc…. but it sounds wonderful to me. There’s lots of tube pre choices out there, but I’d suggest any CJ pre would be a nice match with the Sonographe. I’ve had the Sonographe now for probably 25 years and it’s been completely reliable.
in that price range and with the ultimate goal of switching out your power amps I would agree with several above get an integrated. I have a Vincent integrated in my bedroom system and the tube pre with SS power really has a nice sound. I know they are currently switching out models, offering deals on their midtier right at your budget point. or better yet wait for a sale and stretch the budget a little for a Cary 100 or talk to Klaus at Odessey in Indy and get something more bespoke.
The Don Sachs line stage preamp ($2500) is just the VTA SP-14 dressed up in a pretty case. The SP-14 can be bought as a kjt ($1200) or fully assembled and tested ($1800). The top line PH-16 phono preamp kit ($700) can also be had fully assembled and tested ($1000).
The VTA products are very plain Jane and have a bit of a home brew look to them, which is why Don Sachs can charge you $1000 or so more for the good looks. But what do you want to spend your money on?
On the other hand, a recommendation I'd also throw at you would be to find a fully restored... are you ready... Fisher 400 CX-2 (The President) preamp. Easily the equal of a Mac C22 or Marantz 7, and they're gorgeous. Typically around $3000.
I am in absolute love with my Audio Hungary Qualiton APR 204. Has everything you want , brand new, on budget. I was in an Audio Research LS-26 when this gem came along . My favorite preamp ever, and I’ve had many, by all the respected brands .
Wow, a walk back through memory lane as I haven’t bought a preamp in probably 15 years. I bought my first tube one, an arc sp8 that I still have in the box, back in the 1980’s… I’ve also owned their sp9, 10, and 11, and still have counterpoint, manley and cj ones, and through the years have had an opportunity to listen to a great number of the recommendations you received. As you probably know, after cd’s (perfect sound forever) became the norm, many manufacturer’s dropped phono stages from their pre units, and started manufacturing line only pre amps, a trend which continues through today. Your wanting an inboard mm stage therefore in some ways limits your search, but in some ways benefits it, as by comparison, good mc stages were more difficult and expensive to produce. I could ramble on for a while, but note that you’ve received some great suggestions already. Having been down that search some decades ago, I’d heartily second the wonderful manley ultimate, an arc 3/8/9/11, or a mm stage cat. Counterpoints as well, but now they are tough to find, and tougher to service. Arguably more musical, perhaps at the expense of some audio parameters by comparison to more modern products from the same companies, these oldies were truly goodies.
Buying used is a great way to go, and most of the major players will continue to service their products many years after their manufacture date.
good luck!
ps. While there are great systems out there with tube pre/solid amp combos, a couple of relatively inexpensive tube pieces together can bring a smile to one’s face the same way an inexpensive turntable can. Don’t hesitate to wander down that path for a bit. rbm
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