I’ve loved Maggies since the first time I heard the Tympani T-I in 1972. I bought a pair that year, bi-amping them with ARC amplifiers. I later owned a pair of T-Id’s, and now have T-IVa’s (using a First Watt B4 crossover in place of the stock one).
I have heard the MG1.7’s and didn’t think much of them. I compared that model with the Eminent Technology LFT-8b (like the Maggies a planar-magnetic, but with a dynamic driver for 180Hz down), which I found to be considerably more to my liking (I bought a pair). Some guys prefer the LFT-8b ($3200/pr) to the MG3.7i ($8000/pr), which I have not heard. Speaking of the 3.7i, here is a video made by Danny Richie of GR Research regarding a pair of that model sent to him for evaluation and possible upgrading:
https://youtu.be/_bpDP0jxj4k
Even if you don’t agree with Danny’s opinions of the 3.7i, and the "fixes" he designed for it, the video should be of interest to anyone considering a Maggie purchase. I just checked the video post, and it is for some reason starting about 2/3rd’s of the way through it. Just click on the far left end of the red line and the video will play from the beginning. The comments in response to the video are also worth reading.
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A few things from a many Maggies owner since 1977:
There is a conspiracy in White Bear Lake MN. Audio Research guys collaborate with Magnapan guys in the depths of winter when there's nothing left to do. therefore; one must drive a Maggie with a pair of ARC tube amps. It's the alchemists law. :)
Maggies will bend your perception of sound. Maybe literally- they are so very different that there aren't words. You will either love them or be selling them in a few months.
If you like acoustic music there is a transcendental event as you listen to it on a properly placed set of Maggies. If you like to rock out with your socks out buy something else. They don't have the capability to replicate the big speaker distortion gear Uncle Ted or Neil Young like to play through. If you want to use them for home theater you will be sorely disappointed.
A properly treated listening room, proper placement with TUBE amplification and lots of watts in reserve will change your HiFi arc. For the better. Every time.
One last thing: Try them at home before you buy them. A good retailer will allow a qualified buyer to do this, Also, treat your retailer right. He needs to make a fair profit on them so he can bring you the atelier services you are seeking. Don't be a dick and wring him out then shop for used ones. That's manifestly selfish and unfair. Moreover it will help eliminate retailers who in this hobby are essential. (no I'm not a dealer or broker. Just a realist) We are loosing the great enthusiast old school retailers. They are going broke while selling some of the best knowledge, experience and gear out there. Support them.
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sorry but i snorted my morning coffee through my nose... laughed so hard at the earlier post
omg -- we idiots have all been listening to complete crap before dannie richie came along, and made all walks of speakers listenable -- no doubt that jim winey and wendell diller have been lost souls with cotton balls in their ears for 40+ years - if they only had mister speaker savior danny r as a childhood mentor 🤣😂😁
i had to get that lick in... no offense to @bdp24 -- but this danny richie stuff gets me going... so never mind me, back to your regular programming...
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So @jjss49, did you watch the video? I’m guessing not.
Danny Richie is not the only one who has taken a close look at the Magneplanar’s and done some serious modifying. Members of The Magnepan Group on the Planar Speaker Asylum have gone much further than Richie, who changed only the crossover and speaker wire connectors (everybody knows the Magnepan connectors are junk. I replaced the stock ones on my Tympani T-IVa with Cardas binding posts, and bypassed the fuse blocks, very common in the DIY speaker community.).
Bruce Thigpen of Eminent Technology was impressed with the early Maggies, but was not fond of the single-ended design of the drivers. So he took Jim Winey’s basic design and set out to improve on it. His LFT drivers are all push-pull, and constructed quite a bit better than the Maggie diaphragms (imo), except for the wonderful Magnepan ribbon tweeter. Whereas Maggies have conductive wire glued onto the Mylar (the wire causing the Mylar to move in response to the signal), a vapor-deposited conductive film is applied to the Mylar of the LFT’s, the film then chemically-etched away in all areas except for the grids of conductive traces. The result is lower moving mass drivers.
There are longtime Tympani owners who have replaced the midrange driver in the T-IV and T-IVa with multiple NEO drivers (also a planar-magnetic), creating a line source with them. Another "mod" (not really) is to brace the Tympani panels to the wall behind them, which increases bass output and clarity (those big panels can really move when pumping out low frequencies). For single-panel Maggies the Mye stands are a must.
And then there is "Peter Gunn" (a pseudonym) who takes the Maggie drivers out of the stock MDF frames and installs them in solid hardwood frames, as well as completely redoing the crossover. I’ve never heard a pair, and his work is highly controversial. Danny Richie’s crossover is designed in accordance with well-established engineering principles, nothing radical at all.
It’s been a long time since Jim Winey did any design work at Magnepan, and I have no idea of Wendell Diller’s engineering education and background (his longtime position at Magnepan has been head of marketing). I eagerly await his upcoming dipole woofer system, a great idea that has already been put into production at Eminent Technology. The LFT-8c differs from the -8b only in having a dipole woofer (the 8c) in place of the monopole (the 8b), as well as power for the woofers and DSP for signal management (as will the Magnepan dipole woofer).
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@arafiq , if you have problems with set up feel free to message me.
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@bdp24
i sure did watch that d-r video, as well as others... thank you
i wonder what danny could do with a set of eminent's in his hands!!?? 😂
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@mijostyn I appreciate the offer. I will contact you once I get the speakers -- most likely around June of this year. Thank you!
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@yesiam_a_pirate
Don't be a dick and wring him out then shop for used ones. That's manifestly selfish and unfair.
Thank you for chiming in. My room is quite well treated so I'm hoping that will not be an issue with the Magnepans. But I'm open to add more if needed.
I totally agree with your comment regarding supporting retailers and dealers. I practice this myself as much as possible. Having said that, this is an audio form and we're all adults here. We should let people decide what's best for them and leave any moral posturing at the door. Just my 2 cents. Hope you don't mind.
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+1 @jjss49
I have no doubt that Dannie Richie is very good at what he does. But at the end of the day it’s not that difficult to play monday morning quarterback. I have a lot more respect for folks who design, build, and sell their own speakers -- quirks, warts and all. I understand that it’s part of his business model but I have to admit that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when he talks trash about other manufacturers. There has to be a better and more classy way to run his business without denigrating others’ creations. Oh well ...
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Every day, Paul McGowan answers questions from people via video. Then every day a bunch of internet "engineers" proceed to tell him why he's wrong.
This thread reminds me of that.
How did Magnepan ever survive?
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My old 1.7s were well driven by Canary Tube monoblock amps putting out about 140 wpc ultralinear and 95 in pentode, I think. The crossovers are cheap Chinese junk. They sound infinitely better after being rebuilt. They did not sound at their best till I added a pair of subwoofers.
Maggie's like current but they sing well with the right tube amp.
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Adding a sub or two to almost any planar will result in improvements in a couple of ways. Most importantly, relieved of reproducing bass, the Maggie "woofers" will now reproduce the midrange in a noticeably improved manner. The speaker will also play louder, with less strain and distortion. And if you employ a high pass filter in front of the power amp (removing low frequencies from the input signal) the amp itself will produce less distortion, and more power will be available for the midrange frequencies.
The problem is---as Wendell Diller has been saying for decades---that monopole subs simply do not blend well with dipole loudspeakers (there are technical reasons why that is so). Quad owners have been trying since the 1950’s, with no success. The Finnish company Gradient introduced an open baffle/dipole sub for both the original Quad (aka 57) and the 63, sometime in the 80’s iirc. Robert E. Greene wrote a TAS review of the 57 model after auditioning it with his Quads. The Gradient was well designed, but not terribly well constructed, leaving a lot of potential unrealized.
Once again, Danny Richie to the rescue ;-) . Danny had already designed and was selling an open baffle/dipole woofer/sub (sold only as a DIY kit, the market he targets), when he heard about a new servo-feedback sub being offered by another company located in Texas: Rythmik Audio. Danny and Rythmik designer/owner Brian Ding put their big brains together and came up with the world’s only servo-feedback, open baffle, dipole sub/woofer in the world. THE sub for any and all dipole loudspeakers, including of course Maggies. Availlable only as a DIY kit, but there are a couple of pro woodworkers making the required ob/dipole "frame" in flat pack form. Details available on the GR Research website.
If you think Danny Richie only modifies the designs of others, you are mistaken. He also offers his own loudspeakers, long available (since 1995) only as DIY kits, but some models now offered fully assembled and finished. To see Danny’s ultimate offering, check out the virtual system of Audiogon member "jaytor", which includes the 3-woofer version of the OB/Dipole Sub, as well as a tall line source loudspeaker using multiple NEO-3 and NEO-10 planar-magnetic drivers.
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The Magnepan 0.7 has the best balance and bass dynamics of all the models I’ve heard. Seems the “pro” reviewers agree with regard to the bass. I owned the 1.7is previously and could not get along with them. Other than outright bass extension (not to be confused with bass output) and loudness capability, I find the 0.7 is the better speaker. The 0.7 has become the “forgotten” Maggie as of late, which is ironic considering it is arguably the best Magnepan, and one of the most musical speakers I’ve encountered in all my years in this hobby. Even though it’s a 2-way design, the midrange is to die for, and is, I feel, superior to that of the 1.7is. Coming from Harbeths, I think you will better acclimate to the midrange presence of the 0.7 vs the 1.7i.
Also, Maggies really perform best with high current, linear-power-supply class AB amplifiers. Unfortunately, most class D amps, regardless of power/watts spec, do not possess the current capability necessary to “wake” them up. Your Aavik may very well be an exception, but I figure that should be mentioned, just in case you find yourself underwhelmed with the pairing.
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"Also, Maggies really perform best with high current, linear-power-supply class AB amplifiers. Unfortunately, most class D amps, regardless of power/watts spec, do not possess the current capability necessary to “wake” them up."
I must disagree with this statement. I’ve had Maggies in one iteration or another for the past 25 yrs. I’ve always driven them with AB amps thinking this conventional "wisdom" was true. It wasn’t till I bought a pair of PS Audio M700 mono blocks that I knew what my Maggies could really sound like. They drive my 1.7i with such ease. Even listening at low levels, the detail is still amazing. These amps do not sound cold or hard edged. Quite the opposite in fact. Nor do they fall apart at higher listening levels. My point is don’t underestimate class D amps. They can be quite capable of driving challenging speakers. So, there’s my 0.2 cents.
P.S: Love my Maggies! Hope you will too, arafiq.
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@helomech Funny you should say this. Some years ago I has 12s....the predecessor to the .7. I thought they were the sleeper of the line. I moved to 1.7...and while i thought they WERE better, the difference wasn't earth shaking.
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@yesiam_a_pirate "If you want to use them for home theater you will be sorely disappointed."
Only if you count the EPM (explosions per minute). I have an all-planar 7.0 system with plenty of bass: 6 Magnepan MMW, 2 DWM bass panels and a Quad 2905 centre. I hear every sigh of dialogue and every bass slam - just not enough of the latter to loosen the screws in the walls. Planars forever!!
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I have had Magnepan MGIIIa speaker for years. I biamp them with a pair of bryston 3Bs. They are light on bass, but I really do not car about strong bass. The bass they have is very clear and not muddy. You need patience in moving them around..I measured carefully to get them the same distance from the back walls and they work great
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I don't know if I'm missing something or am acoustically challenged, however, I'm very successfully driving a pair of LRS speakers with a 47 watt amp. It's Linear Tube Audio's Z40 Integrated ZOTL tube amp.
The amp speaker combination works just, absolutely beautifully. Sound stage as wide as I want it by just subtly altering the speaker's toe-in or toe-out.
As the LTA amp is the quietest I've heard, you can hear everything. Nothing is muffled as the LRS keeps up with rapidly changing notes. So many times with studio recordings I've had for years, you can hear voices in the background on the run out grooves that I've never noticed before.
BTW: I'm talking vinyl only here.
Zero distortion as I turn up the volume. The LTA's volume goes to 100. My system is in a very large room and I can totally fill the room with sound by going no louder that 50 to 55 on the volume control.
What am I missing that a 300W+ amp is supposed to deliver, or is it just because I have the smaller LRS's ... ??
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Just out of curiosity I’m listing a pair of Maggie’s that I used for maybe three weeks then put into original boxes as I moved overseas. Selling for $850.
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As with all speakers, the room matters, so I convey my experience in that light. My room is 22 x 28 x 9 with a few departures from its otherwise rectangular shape. I started with SMGa. They were inexpensive and I followed all of the recommendations for placement and power, using no solid state amp below 100 wpc. They sounded great, but the sweet spot was very small, both laterally and vertically. Still, they sounded amazing with the right alignments. Then, just for fun, I connected an old tube amp, about 60 wpc. It blew me away. The sweet spot wasn’t larger, but the listening enjoyment increased. I had to find bigger Maggies. Along came 1.6QR, and with them everything that size brings, extended highs and lows, much bigger sweet spot, and the soundstage grew tremendously. I used a mix of tube amps from 50 wpc up to Classe 500 wpc, and enjoyed every one of them. Had not tried using a sub, and as a longtime bass player, didn’t feel that I was missing low end. REW measurements did confirm a hard falloff below 40 Hz. But bigger is better, and I picked up a pair of 3.6R from one of the best Maggie dealers in the USA. I’d hesitate to say this is the end of the line, as 20.somethings would appeal at the right price, but aside from continuing to play with amplifier variations, these speakers delight me every time I listen. I use either a Convergent SL-1 or ARC SP3a1 preamp into vintage Lux or Sony solid state power amps, or any of my higher powered tube amps from Eico, VTL, or Dynaco. And I’ve added a tiny Totem Storm sub to supplement bass below 40 Hz.
The comments made by others regarding soundstage, weakness in bass, power hungry, etc, have not been my experience at all. Placement dictates the soundstage and natural bass, and the volume you wish to play dictates the power needs. I’m good in the mid 80 db range with peaks touching 90. If you want to play Maggies at 100 db, then you need lots of power.
My alternate system in the same room is Altec 604-8G and low powered tube amps. The Altecs are fun with a remarkable ability to make lesser quality recordings sound decent, much like a soft focus filter does for aging actors.
I haven’t heard LRS yet, but based on the experience of others, you may want the larger Maggies for your room. 1.7 at the very least. And they will shine with your Aavik.
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There are a few things I could tell you. See if you can find a place to audition before you purchase. I've owned several models, 2.5R's up to 20.1's, one thing I would say is none of them were lacking in bass. Maggie's have a different take on bass, fast and natural. I've never used a sub, the natural sound is part of what makes them what they are. You didn't mention a budget, $2500 should get you a good deal on a pair of used 3.6's....
Enjoy the Music
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Whenever I have listened to 3.6’s, I did not feel the need for a subwoofer. I would consider matching 3.7’s with a set of Schiit Tyr’s.
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I have been listening to my MG IIIa's since 1988. Peter Gunn generously advised me to screw as much natural wood to the back of the particle board frames as possible to absorb vibration and he shared the schematic for his crossover. I installed 36' of 2"x3" studs per speaker and built his crossover ($900 in parts). Major improvements.
Recently, Peter advised me to place a screen behind my listening position to enhance bass response. I constructed a frame to hold a 2'x4' piece of plywood covered with 2" of Rockwool that is mounted horizontally 34" from the floor and another piece of 2'x4' plywood covered in Rockwool that hangs over the listening area at a 30 degree angle. I had been using an 18" sub with a low pass of 35hz. The sub is no longer necessary, unless you want sub 25hz support. The over all sound is cleaner without the sub. The overhanging panel helps eliminate sound bouncing from the ceiling. It's like having a folded horn located behind you.
My room is 35'x25'x14' (tray ceiling). I installed a diffuser on the middle of the front wall and the sound stage bloomed. The Maggies are powered by a Devialet 220. The Devialet replaced a Pass Labs 250.5. The amp is connected to the speakers via sixteen 5' 0 AWG copper cables.
I highly recommend you consult Peter Gunn and consider buying one of his modified 1.6 QR's. Unfortunately, Peter does not modified the bigger models due to shipping constraints.
An Audiogon poster, b4icu, recommended the speaker cables. Shocking results as I added one cable at a time.
I have had many box speakers. They sound good, but they don't have the magic.
Good luck.
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My first foray into Open Baffle (OB) speakers was with Accoustat 2 + 2s with both their servo OTLs and the Medallion interfaces. The OTLs blew away the interfaces, but, they were very unstable... fast forward through many box speakers, I "finally" succumbed, and bought a used pair of Magnepan 3.5Rs, which I had to send to the factory due to bass panel delam. Over time, I blew about 6 ribbons before throwing in the towel, but I really loved the huge sound stage they threw (as did my OB 2+2s).
These days there are a goodly number of OB designs which, unlike maggies, are very easy to drive and are nowhere near as wide or tall. In your room EP 2.+ or 3.4 series would do extremely well and typically can be had on the used market for < 50% off. Why? Most people selling them do 2 very important things wrong
* they use the crappy supplied jumper wire
* they leave the outboard XOs on the speaker bases, which shake like crazy.
See my Virtual System which 3.4s
hth
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If a person is the type that has a few pairs of speakers then one of those should be Magnepan. They definitely present the music in a different way. I happen to love the sound.
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Buy them!
I am on my 2nd pair.
All my friends who have listened to them have bought them, or want to buy them.
BUT they come with their own set of issues.
First you need a no BS real high current amp, 200 watts at 8 ohms would do the trick. Also like George Washington they can not tell a lie. Weak parts of your audio chain will become GLARING obvious. So be prepared to change some gear.
Every upgrade is noticeable. I've replaced fusees, AC cords, interconnects etc. And they just keep sounding better and better.
I've never felt the need to upgrade and tweak as much with any other speakers I've owned -but it pays off.
I'm at a point now where I'm very very happy with the sound. The only thing I will do at some point soon is change tubes in the DAC.
Even the .7's can be a life changing experience.
Enjoy!!!
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My best box speakers were Castle Winchesters, and my best transmission line (sans box) were Time Frame TF700s. I liked them both, and still do when I have to put them in service. Now I have never even heard a Magnepan, but I have owned Quad electrostats, and I agree that one can't go back. Quads had some quality control issues when production moved to China, which is why I keep my old speakers up in the attic! I'm about to replace all the panels (about 4kCDN before tax and labour) but it will be worth it if I get another 12 years out of them (more than enough considering!) Ig Magnepans are like Quads, you will hear everything, good and bad. And it will be natural and realistic.
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Thanks for the input and feedback guys. Reading the responses, I see a number of folks who don't feel the need for very high powered/high current amplification and are happy with relatively medium powered amps. Based on my own experience, I think there are many speakers that are considered hard-to-drive but there are many people who are happy with all sorts of medium powered amps. The question though is how much are you leaving on the table? From what I understand, yes you can drive Magnepans with decent amplification with great results, but they really show you what they can bring to the table with big iron amplifiers. Since my amp is 300 watts @ 8 ohms and doubles to 600 at 4, I'm this will allow me to tap into the full potential of 1.7's.
I've been trying to find something local so I can listen before buying, but surprisingly not much available in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'll continue to look though.
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Arafiq, I’m no expert but I used to have a 250 watt amp that doubled at 4 and never felt like I needed more to drive the 1.6 and 1.7i. My room is slightly smaller than yours and I don’t listen at loud volumes.
I did upgrade from that amp to more powerful mono blocks and got a more refined overall sound quality. Probably not from more power but rather from the higher quality of the amps.
On a side note, it took about 3 month for my 1.7is to fully break in.
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I have had the .7 and the 1.7i driven by amps that delivered 150watts @ 8 ohms, 300 watts @ 4 ohms respectively and never had an issue. Right now as I wait for the arrival of my LRS+ I am enjoying the hell out of a pair of original MMG’s. With an integrated with the power output rating mentioned above.
I listen at very conservative volume levels. I once sold off a Threshold amp at a significant loss - not that I’ve ever profited from selling a piece of gear - because I assumed the meters were malfunctioning. The buyer sent me an email a few days after the sale to tell me that everything was fully functioning, it was simply that the level I mostly enjoyed just wasn’t moving the meters. Sheesh.
Now that may appear to be really low, but it wasn’t. I think many people would be surprised to learn how meager the output may be at a consistent volume level that doesn’t shake the window panes. When I buy amps or integrateds I do look for those that double the 4ohm load from the 8ohm load - it’s the current that matters most. It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but the amps/integrateds that I’ve found to be the best matches for Maggies and Thiels all did that.
I fell in love with Maggies years ago when the first released the MMG model. $600 was a bargain. I’ve had 5 models to date, and five different Thiel models, and now I’m sticking to Maggie, specifically the LRS+. I haven’t heard it, but I’m relatively sure they will be an improvement over the MMG.
Because the MMG “only” reaches 50hz I bought a REL T5 sub as a complement. After a few extended listening sessions I removed it. No slight against the REL, but when I listened at slightly higher volume I felt that the sub wasn’t needed. I’m not talking Led Zeppelin IV here, that just won’t do, but the genres I listen to most nowadays simply do not require that degree of bass.
Enjoy.
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as a public service, let me post here what is stated at the magnepan website... in their faq section
it is always good to know what the manufacturer of the speaker says about how to use it how to drive it... you can choose to debate or ignore the advice, but it is useful to know what they say, given they have a stake in users enjoying the speaker
WHAT IS THE BEST AMPLIFIER FOR MAGNEPLANARS?
We have a very small staff and none of us have the time to test amplifiers. But, we have decades of experience with a class of amplifiers that work well with Magneplanars.
The short answer is direct-coupled, Class A/B designs with high current capability. But to learn more, you’ll need to read further.
First, let’s address a misconception: The more expensive Maggies require better amplifiers.
It is true that most customers use better electronics on our more expensive models. But technically, it is not because the more expensive models are more demanding on the amplifier. The loads and efficiencies are very similar. Typically, the customer has a larger budget for amplifiers and, of course, the speakers respond with better sound.
Some individuals assume we won’t make product or amplifier recommendations for "political" reasons. Not true. We CAN’T make specific recommendations because WE DON’T KNOW. It is too much work to keep up with changing models and the vast number of products. As it is, our small staff is not getting all of our work done. However, the following guidelines will be helpful. Class A/B amplifier designs that come close to doubling power at 4 ohms have a long and successful track record.
The most common question is about the amount of recommended power for Magneplanars, but, first, it is important to understand the role of current and the power supply. High current and the capability of the power supply is a good indicator of the QUALITY of the amplifier. The amount of power you will need is a matter of QUANTITY. High current and total power are two separate issues. The ratio of the power at 8 ohms and 4 ohms defines the quality of the sound probably more than any other aspect of the sonic performance. Typically, if the engineers got this right, they probably did a good job in other areas of the design.
The power supply is "what separates the men from the boys." A receiver is very efficient and cost-effective way to get is all in one package, but there are "issues". Unfortunately, consumers want all the "bells and whistles" without understanding the importance of power supply. Many manufacturers offer the "bells and whistles", but, compromise the power supply to be price competitive. There are a few manufacturers that are the exception.
Everyone understands they need plenty of power, but the role of power supply is not understood. There is one important concept you need to understand when shopping for an amplifier or receiver: and it is somewhat like understanding "good" and "bad" cholesterol. The ratio is very important. An Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it). None of the receivers will do that. However, this is the benchmark of a good amplifier design. A 10 watt amplifier that produces 20 watts at 4 ohms "speaks volumes" about the PHILOSOPHY of the designer. (But, of course, it does not tell you if a 10 watt amplifier is enough for your room.) In the final analysis, buy an amplifier that comes as close to doubling the power at 4 ohms as your budget will allow.
A good receiver might produce 30-40% more power at 4 ohms. Most receiver manufacturers don’t want to talk about 4 ohm ratings because they have cut the "guts" out of their products to keep the cost down. Some receivers produce the same power at 4 ohms as the 8 ohm ratings. Or they use a switch on the back for 4 ohms to reduce the power and to prevent the receiver from self destructing. Others warn against 4 ohm speakers and will only offer a 6 ohm power rating. Regardless of what speaker you buy, we don’t recommend any of these receivers. There are a few manufacturers making receivers with good 4 ohm capability. But, we can’t keep up with who’s doing what. All you have to remember is to ask: "What is the 4 ohm power rating?" If the 4 ohm rating isn’t available, find another model or brand. It may take some digging to find the 4 ohm rating, but there are a number of receivers on the market that are rated for 4 ohms. For example, the THX rating requires that the amplifier section must be able to drive 4 ohms continuously. Even an inexpensive receiver like the 50 watt NAD C725 BEE (suggested retail of $799) is advertised to be stable with impedances down to 1 ohm and has peak power of 200 watts. So, don’t be fooled by pretty front panels. Its what is on the inside that counts.
A new type of amplifier (Class D) has become more popular because it is a "green" design and uses less power plus it is smaller in size compared to conventional amplifier designs. We have heard reports of Class D amplifiers shutting down when driving 4 ohm loads or sound quality that is less-than-desirable. Quite frankly, some sound very poor on Maggies. However, more recent designs of high-end models are much better. Because we do not have the time to determine which models of Class D designs are compatible with Maggies, we must take a conservative approach. Direct-coupled, Class A/B designs with high current capability have proven a good choice for many decades.
HOW MUCH POWER DO I NEED?
We are asked this question every single day. We wish that we could be of more help, but individual tastes vary. If someone tells you that you need an amplifier with ___ watts, how can they be so sure if they are not listening with you in your room?
You can get a lot of free advice in the chat rooms on the internet. Most of it is of very little value (or misleading). Often, their power recommendations are influenced by their listening habits and room conditions. If they have a strong opinion of what you need for power, take it with a grain of salt.
Personal tastes are "all over the map". We hear of customers that are perfectly happy with 50 watts and others using 1000 watts. Without the option of listening with you, we have no way to give meaningful advice. The most reliable way to answer this question for your particular needs is by visiting a dealer or arranging to hear a pair of Magneplanars. If you listen to your music at your normal volume, in a room that is approximately the same size as your room, with an amplifier similar to what you plan to use, an accurate power requirement can be determined for your listening habits. This is a lot to ask, but it is the only reliable method of determining the power needs for a specific individual.
There is a persistent impression that the larger Maggies require more power. It is true that most customers with the more expensive models have more powerful amplifiers. But, the popular assumption is not correct. They typically have a larger budget. If and when you upgrade your electronics is a separate decision.
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@arafiq
Lots of great info here already. I'll just chime on to say go for it. I just put my LRS back into the mix. Whenever I do this, at first I am not really impressed. Going from a box speaker (in this case Snell type D) my first thought is - where is the bass and fullness? But that goes away fairly quickly as the Maggies open up and do their thing. After a few hours I forget all about the box coloration and just become immersed in the music! And yes, I agree that the more quality power you can give them, the better off you'll be. They sound great with my McCormack .5 and tube pre and my Rogue tube amp. But, my Hegel H360 gives them another added something that really satisfies.
Best of luck!
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RE: Magnepan’s amp recommendations
The good folks at Magnepan, God bless’em, need to listen to some good modern class D amps with their speakers and then update that FAQ on amps. Then there is this quote from that FAQ “WE DON’T KNOW. It is too much work to keep up with changing models and the vast number of products.”
That FAQ has been there for a very long time (outdated?). At some point, they’ll need to update it even though most of it still stands true.
I’m not recommending anyone run out and buy a class D amp or an A/B amp (personal choice). Just saying that class A/B amps may not be the end-all/be-all for Maggies and certainly not the only choice these days.
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@jjss49 Thanks for the FAQ.
When I read it I also wondered when it might have been updated as I have read that many Maggie owners have driven them with a modern class D amplifier. At least the Magnepan people admitted that they have no experience with more modern class D units and did not rule them out.
I recently purchased a pair of LRS+. My 1st pair of Maggies. I am go'ing to try them out with two amplifiers I now have in possession. The Rogue Audio Sphinx V3 and a Pass XA-25 ( with tube preamp). My room has volume of a 11x17x8.5' however somewhat irregular shaped. Also highly treated with sound panels.
Given that I take heed for the need for current over watts with Maggies, I suspect that the XA-25 may not be the best match even in my room. It does have the current, however still a low watt amp. I intend to be cautious.
It is likely that I will be looking for another amplifier for the LRS+ as I have need of the Rogue in a secondary system.
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Forgot to add that I will get back regarding my findings once I have the experience.
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Yeah that 'official' class D guidance from Magnepan gave me pause as well. Either they have not kept up with the advancements in class D or maybe their viewpoint is still valid for all that we know. As I've mentioned before, I was very skeptical of class D until I got my new Aavik integrated amp. That was a revelation, especially for a tube guy :)
My amp doubles from 300 watts at 8 ohms to 600 at 4. It drives my not-so-efficient speakers like a boss. But I don't know if class D uses the same level/type of current compared to class A/B. If there's a difference in that aspect, I would love to be enlightened. However, if Magnepan's official stand is that only high current class A/B are good enough to play ball in their backyard than I don't mind taking mine elsewhere. Not going to give up my class D amp for Maggies, that's for sure :)
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One of the long time respected local hi end dealers that I have been a customer with for years has been pairing Class D amps with power hungry Maggie’s for years. It should not be an issue, in fact a most effective way to go. Otherwise he mostly sold tube amps.
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Give them a roll, if they don't work out you know you can unload them here.
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I have the Magnepans 7's with fuse/jumper upgrade and Magnarisers stands and use two different amps with them: VAC PA 100 100 tube amp and Spectron musical MK lll class D amp The VAC sounds musical on the 4 ohm taps, the Spectron puts out 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm plus 65 amps for 500 milliseconds The beast weighs 54lbs and was designed by John Ulrich I typically listen to music around 75db with peaks in the low 80's What I like about the Spectron with all that watts/current Is the astounding inner detail, dynamics and huge sound stage I should also mention I use two SVS Ultra 13 subs with their DSP app My brother was considering buying the 1.7's (bigger room than mine) and was asking for amp advice So I created two You Tube vids one with my VAC the other with the Spectron with the same song and db level " Magnepan doing their thing " My brother said it really helped him decide
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did i stumble into a class d amp thread? 😁🤣
we should take statements wendell/magnepan make at face value, even if somewhat dated
- they don’t have time to listen to everything
- class d used to sound bad, now they are better...so if you wanna try, go for it...
- but their reference has been and continues to be top flight, strong class ab... hard to argue with this, this is a highly successful enduring company with legions of happy customers, thus there is a rich and relevant experience base to draw upon
happiness comes in many flavors, some people like to try new stuff, hear new gear at the bleeding edge, others prefer stuff that they know will work well, be done, know they have the right stuff
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Reading what @jjss49 posted would give me pause, regardless.
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did i stumble into a class d amp thread?
Well, I did mention in the OP that I will be driving the Maggies with a class D amp, so I think that part of the discussion is relevant and not off topic :)
I understand that Magnepan employees cannot possibly test every amplifier under the sun, but it will be beneficial to the audiophile community if they perhaps broaden their horizons a bit more and revisit their stance vis-a-vis class D amps. As we can see on this thread alone, there are several folks who have successfully paired class D with Maggies and are quite happy. Maybe they can pick some top shelf amps from the likes of Atmasphere, AGD, Jeff Rowland, or Aavik for that matter and see what the new (and improved) technology has to offer.
Anyways, regardless of their official stance, I intend to find out how the speakers perform with my class D amp. Hopefully I can find a nice used pair locally. Not much available right now though.
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@arafiq
if your class d amp sounds good with other speakers you have owned and liked, chances are that they will do just fine with maggies
as you know i have a set of agd audions, after trying many other class d amps i did not enjoy, and the agd’s do very well with my 1.7i’s as well as 3.7i’s...
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My class D experience using plenty of power from monoblocks was a bust with the 1.7s. They lacked the capacitance to handle abrupt movments/changes and the amps would bail. When I listened to mellow jazz and accoustic they were lovely. 4B3 doesn’t even know they are there. This argument has been debated here for about a decade and my opinion and my experience is that Maggies benefit from substantial capacitance.
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@arafiq : There’s a variety of advice here. I’m going to add my own experience, but the absolute most important thing to do is to try what you have access to and decide for yourself. We all have different rooms, and different expectations, so one person’s advice may, or may Not apply to you. I’ve owned six different Magnepan models over the last 36 years, and I’ve experimented with dozens of amplifiers to drive them. Incidentally, I own, and have owned several other brands and types of speakers as well, but for me, the presentation of sound by the Magnepans is my favorite. As some others have advised… watts of power, in and of itself, is not what makes these speakers sound “good”. Amplifiers sound different. Period. So comparing amp A @ 50 w/ch to amp B @ 300 w/ch is only useful (in terms of power) if one is exceeding the limits of the smaller amp. If you’re actually only using 25 watts of power to drive your speakers to the levels at which you listen, it doesn’t matter if an amp has 15 watts more available or 275 watts more available… UNLESS that particular 300 watt amp sounds Better in the range from 0 watts to 25 watts! I personally do not listen to music super loud. I do play it “loud” sometimes, but not to the point where I NEED hundreds of watts. I have compared amplifiers where the model with the lower rated w/ch sounded more powerful than the model with higher rated w/ch. The point is we all “use” our systems our own way. I’m extremely pleased with what I’ve settled on: 3.7s driven by a medium powered tube amplifier (and Yes, I’ve also owned many SS amps with hundreds of w/ch). I use a pair of Speltz autoformers to raise the impedance of the Maggies to better match the amp, but not because it sounded bad, but because I know electrically it’s a better match. Buy the speakers.. use your amp.. let your brain get used to a different (better imo) sound presentation, and decide for yourself. Oh, if you buy new Maggies, let them have time to break in! That’s totally legit… more than any other speaker I’ve used. One more thing: Someone in this thread wrote that he blew six ribbons then quit trying Magnepan. I have had three different models with ribbon tweeters over many years. I frequently play rock music at a fairly loud volume level, but not crazy loud, and I’ve never blown even one ribbon. I remember blowing a fuse once… I replaced it and that was that. This is just my experience and my advice. Ymmv
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Well this is the 1st day with my new LRS+ speakers. I have them mounted with the Maggie riser stands. Room as described in a post above.
I am using my Pass XA-25. System is in a averaged sized bedroom well treated.
Driving the amp with my Aric Audio tube preamp which has variable gain which I believe to be set at 16-18 dB. The XA-25 has gain of 20dB.
Volume level not presenting peaks over 90dB. Amp has been on for about 5 hours and I can place my hands on the heat sinks and leave them there.
I hear no strain from the amplifier.
I am loving these speakers. It remains for me to continue playing with placement. Right now just enjoying some music.
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Mesch, congrats on the new LRS +! They’ll sound even better after some period of break-in.
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I hate threads like this because the Maggie's are the only speakers I keep thinking I should go back to. Let me explain.
My first real speakers were original Large Advents; I still own two pairs. About 15 years ago we moved into a new home with a great man cave basement with two large windows. Does not feel like a basement at all. 35 feet long by 18 wide with 9 foot ceilings. Due to a support beam in middle of the room, I am restricted to a space about 16 feet long from the front wall.
Anyway, I was looking for box speakers and heard Magnepan 1.2's. They sounded like Advents to me only much better. Bought them on the spot. I moved up to 1.7's but did not really enjoy them as much. Moved up to 3.6's. Loved them with a Wyred4Sound ST1000 at 500 WPC (back then, I understood power but not quality). Certainly played loud but I kept hearing about Thiel speakers being Magnepans on steroids.
Anyway, moved to Thiel CS3.6's and got lucky to find a pair of CS5i's. All that time, I still had the Maggie 3.6's. Finally found an amp I liked with the CS5i's - McCormack DNA500. At that point, I was selling the Maggie 3.6's and listened to them one last time with the DNA 500. Wow! Wonderful bass! So I agree that one needs a quality amp with Maggie's. The bass with a good amp is nuanced and you can feel it.
Then I kind of got tired with the Thiels; just could not make then disappear and felt they were a bit too polite. So now I am going down the efficient speakers and low power amp rathole. Zu Soul Sixes and Klipsch Forte iv's.
While auditioning Fortes and Cornwalls, I was also able to hear Maggie 1.7i's and 3.7i's. Still sounded good to me. Then this thread, and I am thinking maybe I should just forgot the Zu and Klipsch and get back to Maggies. They are really good speakers!
Thanks for listening!
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@mesch : Congratulations on your new speakers! I have no doubt that Pass XA 25 sounds great paired with the LRS+. That’s a combo I’ve been thinking “should” sound great, so I’m happy to know that someone is using them together. I’d love to hear it.
@dsper : I understand what you’re experiencing. I’ve tried other speakers in place of the Magnepans I had at times. Sometimes I’d put the Magnepans in another room and set the new speaker up in the main system. Other times I sold the Maggies and replaced them with carefully chosen “other” speakers. I always missed them after awhile, so went back to using them again. There’s something uniquely “real” about how they recreate recorded music that I’ve found missing in other speakers. ALL speakers have their strengths and weaknesses, so I prefer the ones that have strengths in areas of sound that are important to me, and ones that don’t have any type of weaknesses that are deal breakers. My goal is always to put together a system that creates sound that is both pleasing, and “musically” correct (according to what I have in my mind). As I’ve gotten older, and as I’ve been exposed to a wider variety of combinations of equipment, and different environments, I’ve learned to trust what my ears and brain tell me… not what others tell me. I’ve also learned that it’s unfair to judge any component, especially speakers, without some experimentation. Things have to work together well to sound great.
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Dept. of FWIW:
Earlier this year I had an Aavik 1-180 at home for evaluation. The amp worked well enough with SF Guarneri Homage speakers, but when paired with Magnepan .7's I found the presentation to be unpalatable. If I had to choose one adjective the word would be "strange."
I won't elaborate further except to say it was one reason I decided not to purchase the Aavik.
I've had Magnepans in one form or another for decades, and to date I feel they've sounded best with adequately powered tube amps.
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