The total number of aftermarket fuse users would be higher than the numbers sold new indicate, obviously, due to the used aftermarket fuse market, just like any audio component. Of course, totals take into account users who bought more than one fuse.
The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....
New SR BLUE fuse thread ...
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
2,978 responses
Dramatic irony (*) in the choice of and use of 'karma.' Causation and Directionality, writ large. : ) * a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader [[although unknown to the character]]. Emphasis added. |
One has to try and remember that Georgehifi’s claim to fame... the thing that puts him on the map... is actually something more obscure and less measurable than a fuse ---by a long shot. That his claim to fame is tied to something that would pretty well defy measurement, yet the audibility of the function of a fuse, audiophile or otherwise ~~can~~ be measured. And is measured. Big time. His name is out there due to the optical potentiometer trick, being popularized by him. This is a really odd scenario, where the ’fuse denier’ is also a hardcore believer in something extremely similar ----but notably more obscure. Notably less measurable. Could someone please tell us how this bizarrely two sided bit works, as I’m having a spell of trouble with it. |
I think the assumption that I don't hear things as well as others is interesting, and true. Neither does anybody else…but my home system is well sorted and things that DO impact the sound of it, like speaker placement, cables, tubes, etc., are chosen because they suit my tastes, exactly like everyone else. When I mix one of the many hundreds of shows I've done I cater to the artist first, and then subject the audience to my taste which generally requires a minimum of EQ or processing of any sort, including reverb unless somebody requests it. Simple, and people seem to like the results. I remain firm in my knowing that fuses, when doing their job, cannot, and thus do not, have any effect on the tone of electronic components…if somebody can explain why they would I'll listen, but nobody can or even really tries to do that, and my tests of SR black fuses indicated I'm correct in my thinking. People can claim benefits from special fuses using all the hyperbole they can muster and I still will stick with what I know: Fuses are fuses…tiny wire in a tiny tube designed to melt if needed. |
wolf, It is suggested that you don't really know the mechanics or the electrical aspects of how a fuse works. At least this is what your text on the matter is clearly indicating. the audibility of a fuse or one fuse type compared to another, is made plain by an analysis of a fuse's function, with regard to electrical distortions and the nature of said electrical distortions. If you can't grasp this, have the human decency to stop attacking others over this self admitted (via the nature of the text) set of points. Those who do know how it works and what it does, owe you nothing. Especially if the working in such areas of fuse design and development, reaps financial rewards..and if that data and lore is shared, the understandings go wide.. and the financial well dries up... due to over-expansion in the supplier end of the market. Basically, look around you and try to lose the personal illiteracy of the scope of the situation --and you might just get somewhere. |
Thanks Wolf for your response. You have a lot to add to many discussion’s on audiogon and I listen with respect and I appreciate your humor. This stuff cannot be taken to seriously if we want to enjoy our hobby. I was not assuming you couldn’t hear as well as others, just likely differently. If you reread my post I would hope that is what clearly comes across. Now about the sound adjustments at your gigs you make for your musicians and then the audience. And as you stated they are very happy and you have been doing it for a long time.Do you have a set of measurements to give out to suspecting members to settle any concerns on their behalf to prove it is being done right? Or do you just do everything by ear? Getting it to sound good by your ear as a measuring device and their ears as a determining factor? Does that sound right to you? And then mostly everybody is happy right? Thanks |
teo, "wolf, It is suggested that you don’t really know the mechanics or the electrical aspects of how a fuse works." I would guess that he has figured out that it melts? "Those who do know how it works and what it does, owe you nothing." Does that mean that those of us who don’t know how it works owe him something? I'm not paying. |
grannyring I think it is reasonable to assume upgraded fuses won’t improve the SQ of all systems nor will they improve SQ at the same level in all systems. However this does not mean they won’t make a positive SQ change in some or even many systems. >>>>I realize this is going to sound argumentative but what we’ve actually established is that there are between 50,000 and, say, 100,000 Happy Customers of aftermarket fuses in the past 15 years including those who bought used fuses. Most likely something is wrong somewhere in the system where negative results were obtained. The “dissatisfied customers” represent less than 1%. There is no reason to keep them on board. There is no reason to try to appease them. Or give them any credit. They are just extra weight. They are obviously outliers and their results can simply be thrown out. No more problem. If thy eye offend thee pluck it out! 👀 |
It seems that it might be appropriate here for me to try to provide some answers to what I consider to be Wolfie’s legitimate question as to how fuse differences can affect sonics to an audibly significant degree. Why do I consider his question to be legitimate, and to be mostly unanswered at this point despite the countless discussions of fuse-related matters that have occurred in various threads here over the years? Four reasons:
1)Many of the purported explanations of the benefits that have been reported to be provided by expensive fuses amount to descriptions of their physical characteristics, and/or descriptions of how they were manufactured, but do not explain how those characteristics would affect the power supply circuitry and/or audio circuitry that is downstream of the fuse within the component, at least to an audibly significant degree and in a way that would be consistently beneficial.
2)Extensive sets of comparative measurements that have been provided in papers by HiFiTuning, that are sometimes cited as explanations, have been mostly debunked as explanations by me and others, such as noted amplifier designer Roger Modjeski. Generally that has been because the measured differences are far too small to account for the reported benefits, and/or are so small that they would be totally swamped by corresponding differences in the associated wiring and circuitry. (Although see item 2 below for a possible exception).
3)It is not unreasonable, IMO, to consider the high degree of consistency that has been reported for the reported benefits of SR and other expensive fuses, among components that perform completely different functions, that are completely different in design, that are used in completely different systems, that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics, and that are used in both DC and AC applications, to simply be implausible.
4)Wolfie, as well as many of those who are on the opposite side of this issue, have earned considerable respect in my book as a result of his and their many posts here over the years.
Those are the reasons I consider Wolfie’s question to be legitimate, and to have been mostly unanswered in the past despite the lengthy discussions that have occurred, involving many of the same protagonists, in various fuse-related threads going back at least as far as the “Fuses That Matter” thread which began in 2012. At the same time, of course, I certainly recognize that many highly experienced, sincere, and knowledgeable audiophiles have reported significant benefit from these upgrades. While at least a few members having similarly high caliber audiophile credentials have tried some of these fuses and found them to provide little or no benefit, including at least one exceptionally experienced member I can think of whose system costs well north of $50K.
So from a technical standpoint what might account for the benefits that have been widely reported, and what might account for the absence of those benefits in some applications? I suspect that among the many different kinds of applications many different factors may be at play. Here is my shot at it:
1)I suspect that the effects of the small but rapid variations in fuse resistance that occur in applications in which the current through the fuse fluctuates widely are somehow affecting circuitry that is downstream of the fuse. Presumably the fluctuations in resistance differ significantly among different fuse types. I can’t explain exactly how those effects on downstream circuitry may result, though.
Circuit applications in which fuse currents fluctuate widely would include speaker fuses (even the late Peter Aczel of “The Audio Critic” recognized back in the 1980s that speaker fuses may have audible consequences), amplifier output fuses, DC rail fuses in most power amplifiers and the power amplifier sections of integrated amplifiers, and mains fuses in most power amplifiers and the power amplifier sections of integrated amplifiers, especially those not operating in class A.
2)I suspect that small differences in voltage drops resulting from small differences in resistance are probably marginally significant in at least **some** applications. For example, perhaps those differences result in audibly significant changes in the filament voltages supplied to some tubes, in designs in which those voltages are not internally regulated.
3)I would assume that the aging effects George has repeatedly referred to contribute to or are responsible for **some** of the reported benefits.
4)I would assume that improved contact integrity, scraping away of oxidation, etc., resulting from simply removing and replacing a fuse contributes to or is responsible for **some** of the reported benefits.
5)I would expect that the explanation Ralph (Atmasphere) has provided for the directionality effects that have been reported, namely reinsertion of the fuse with differing rotational orientation (rather than intrinsic directional properties), resulting in voltage drop differences which he has experimentally found to be both measurably and audibly significant (and which another member here has reported to be audibly significant), contributes to or is responsible for **some** of the reported benefits.
6)I would expect that unrecognized extraneous variables, for example differences in equipment warmup states, differences in AC voltage and noise characteristics, differences in room temperature or humidity (temperature is a fundamental parameter in the physics underlying the operation of semiconductors such as transistors, diodes, and integrated circuit chips), flushing of internal digital memory that occurs when power is cycled, etc., are responsible for **some** of the reported benefits.
Finally, given the many positive reactions to fuse upgrades that have been reported here in a multitude of diverse applications, by many (but certainly not all) of the members here who have tried them and for whom I have considerable respect, I would feel pretty certain that there are other explanations I am unaware of that are at play in some cases. Especially in the harder to explain applications in which the current being conducted by the fuse does not fluctuate significantly, and where excellent internal voltage regulation is incorporated in the design. But I have no further ideas as to what those additional explanations may be. Given though, that in the video that was recently linked to in this thread even Paul McGowan indicated that he can’t explain these benefits, I guess I’m in good company :-)
Finally, as far as my own interest or lack thereof in pursuing these things is concerned, taking into account the numerous experiences and opinions that have been reported on both sides of the issue, my own technical understanding of these matters, the numerous reports we have seen here of expensive fuses that have failed when they shouldn’t have (from at least eight different members here during the past two years), and my own general preference to devote most of my listening time to just listening to music rather than spending a lot of time trying to extract the last 10 or 20% or so of the performance my system may potentially be capable of, FWIW I personally have no plans to devote time to assessing fuse upgrades in my system in the foreseeable future. Best wishes to those who do, however.
Best regards, -- Al |
Oh, brother! Let me take a stab at one or two of Al’s comments. 2)Extensive sets of comparative measurements that have been provided in papers by HiFiTuning, that are sometimes cited as explanations, have been mostly debunked as explanations by me and others, such as noted amplifier designer Roger Modjeski. Generally that has been because the measured differences are far too small to account for the reported benefits, and/or are so small that they would be totally swamped by corresponding differences in the associated wiring and circuitry. (Although see item 2 below for a possible exception) >>>>HiFi Tuning was the FIRST to admit that the measurements were too small to account for the audible differences THEY heard. They said so right in the article. Hel-loo! You conveniently forgot to mention that. Smooth. Nobody - including your humble scribe - ever claimed that resistance was the magic key to understanding directionality. Yours is a Strawman argument. It’s also fair to point out the measurements were done by a third party, not HiFi Tuning. The other measurements that were included in the HiFi Tuning data sheets such as cryo vs non cryo are also interesting, as well as comparisons of many audiophile fuses and stock fuses. Of course you conveniently ignore those measurements. The differences in resistance, while small, at least show that the wire is NOT (rpt NOT) symmetrical. Are we supposed to just ignore that? We do not known why there are such large audible differences according to direction. No one ever said we did. More to follow....Talk amongst yourselves. |
Thanks, Al, for always being the consummate gentleman. Your approach has always been welcomed, appreciated, and serves as a guiding principle in how to simultaneously take a side and let sleeping dogs lie. Your lawyerly skills were on full display and others can learn something from them. 👍 Even me.😄 All the best, Nonoise |
Al As always very nicely done, a lot of plausibles there and a nice diplomatic touch to it all. Definitely some food for thought. However..... At least my largest contention with Wolf and George was their resolute assertions that the rest of his fellow Agoners, fellow intelligent, level headed, dedicated enthusiasts just simply could NOT be hearing any difference as it was IMPOSSIBLE. Not once did either of them give possible credit to their fellow members ( that I remember reading at least) that there could actually be something in it and just maybe they really did truly hear something. No matter what Wolf and George have contributed in the past that was pretty hard to swallow and very insulting to at least my sensibility. Apart from that one aspect I have no axe to grind with either Wolf or George and I respected the fact that at least Wolf tried and did not hear anything. I just wish they could have been a little more flexible in their thinking, exactly as you have Al, and stood back and at least considered that after all these fuse threads and satisfied customers that there had to have been something more than expectation bias to it. Kudos to all who have managed to remain calm and breath deeply through this thread....... Hopefully it can at last get back to its original intent. |
Counter argument no. 2 almarg wrote, 3)I would assume that the aging effects George has repeatedly referred to contribute to or are responsible for **some** of the reported benefits. Give me a break. I suspect that “aging theory” (which itself has gotten a little old 😀 ) - even though, as you say, George obsessively refers to it - is all wet simply because the benefits of aftermarket fuses are audible immediately, before the fuses have time to age more than a few minutes and they only IMPROVE WITH AGE, you know, like a fine wine or woman. 💃🏻 Nor would George’s obsessive aging theory explain fuse directionality, which is also immediately obvious. Besides, stock fuses that have been in place for many years exhibit directionality instantly when reversed, as someone posted fairly recently and with which your humble scribe concurs. |
I think almarg’s summary is absolutely superb. It’s likely that many will try to pick it apart from the edges and that they’ll find elements of it to challenge. I differ with some of its nuances, too. But this is the sanest and single most succinct summation of the fuse controversy I’ve seen yet. Kudos and thanks to Al! I’m pretty happy with my system and don’t expect to be experimenting with fuses anytime soon. But I wouldn’t dismiss those who advocate for them. High end audio can be full of surprises. |
"because the benefits of aftermarket fuses are audible immediately"Really Geoff, help me understand how you know this - that you state as fact - or are you repeating hearsay? You have repeatedly told us you do not use fuses, yet you continue to post ad nauseam about fuses and wire directionality. I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a directionality that can be discerned under microscopy. What I disagree with is that the directionality could possibly be audible in a home stereo system, particularly the directionality of the 2 to 3.2 cm of wire in a line fuse. How about you post your system here on Audiogon, you know....the system you use to evaluate fuses and wire directionality, so the rest of us can understand better where you are coming from. It is helpful to know a little bit about the systems posters are listening to for context as to their perceptions. |
Does anyone know just how a fuse is made? I know there are no fairies soldering both ends of the "wire" in the same manner to the insides of both end caps. Are both ends a mirror copy of each other in the way they're made and the way they look? Or does one end have more material than the other? Just asking. All the best, Nonoise |
I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a directionality that can be discerned under microscopy. What I disagree with is that the directionality could possibly be audible in a home stereo system, particularly the directionality of the 2 to 3.2 cm of wire in a line fuse.There is no directionality! It's fuse in an AC mains, that's alternating current at 60 x per second. You would have to take the fuse in an out rotate it 60x per second for this directionality "snake oil" to make any sense. And if it were directional to the extent they say, it would have to be in a dc rail not ac mains, to do anything because in effect "it would be a diode", and that would really screw things up. Cheers George |
Mitch, I was a fuse user from the very start, starting with Isoclean. I also had the Audio Magic Nano fuse a few years ago. I also can read, and see what other fuse users report. Can’t you? I also experimented with stock fuses before fuses were cool. I talk the talk AND walk the walk. When you going to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, Mitch? |
almarg wrote, 3. It is not unreasonable, IMO, to consider the high degree of consistency that has been reported for the reported benefits of SR and other expensive fuses, among components that perform completely different functions, that are completely different in design, that are used in completely different systems, that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics, and that are used in both DC and AC applications, to simply be implausible. >>>What’s implausible about it? There’s nothing at all implausible, inconsistent, unusual, scientifically unfathonable or weird about it. In fact, if anything those facts you bring up are excellent evidence of SR fuses’ and other aftermarket fuses superiority, versatility and universality. Further, most fuses are not “expensive” as we have seen. Yes I realize you guys think the more you say that it will convince young impressionable newbies to stick with relatively bad sounding stock fuses. Most aftermarket fuses are what, about twenty bucks? So give us a break. |
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It isn’t just implausible, it is as ridiculous as a nude emperor said to be wearing fantastic clothes that only wise audiophiles can see. This time it is only those with golden ears and only the most high end resolving systems that can hear the sound of a fuse coming out of their speakers. The real answer for the audible effects is simply the “power of suggestion” - people think they hear a difference because they want to - after all nobody likes to admit that they were duped so the desire to imagine even a slight improvement is overwhelming. |
"Most aftermarket fuses are what, about twenty bucks? So give us a break."Ok Geoff, I get it, your prodigious posting on this subject is based on what you read that others have posted and on your memory from before the Walkman days. Your reading seems fine but I am still a little skeptical about the memory part since you seem to have trouble remembering the fuse economics lesson from four days ago, when I posted.... "Even the pedestrian SR20 fuses that the faithful here have blown by long ago cost $30. The blacks and blues that most here are discussing cost $120 and $150, respectively."Try and keep up. |
nonoise - So thousands of people who do hear a difference are imagining it and about a dozen who haven’t tried it know better. That makes a lot of sense. What doesn’t make sense is why proponents such as yourself don’t take me up on the opportunity before you. You know, the Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob repeat a few more times and see if you can guess right test. +1 @mitch2 |
Interesting article by Herb Reichert: https://www.audiostream.com/content/audio-without-numbers One of the points he makes is that both observation and experimentation are equally valid in the scientific method. |
almarg wrote, 4.Wolfie, as well as many of those who are on the opposite side of this issue, have earned considerable respect in my book as a result of his and their many posts here over the years. Those are the reasons I consider Wolfie’s question to be legitimate, and to have been mostly unanswered in the past despite the lengthy discussions that have occurred, involving many of the same protagonists, in various fuse-related threads going back at least as far as the “Fuses That Matter” thread which began in 2012. At the same time, of course, I certainly recognize that many highly experienced, sincere, and knowledgeable audiophiles have reported significant benefit from these upgrades. While at least a few members having similarly high caliber audiophile credentials have tried some of these fuses and found them to provide little or no benefit, including at least one exceptionally experienced member I can think of whose system costs well north of $50K. >>>>>That entire argument is simply illogical. It contains all the major elements of the naysayer illogical arguments. I.e., Strawman argument, Appeal to Authority and even Appeal to Money. 😬 We have just established here that the number of folks who do not hear aftermarket fuses is probably much less than 1% of total aftermarket fuse customers, MOST OF WHICH HAVE BEEN SYNERGISTIC RESEARCH FUSES. in these fuse threads on Audiogon, in fact there have been ONLY A HANDFUL OF NEGATIVE REPORTS. so the WORLDWIDE ratio of POSITIVE TO NEGATIVE RESULTS for *all aftermarket fuses* tried by users, including users of second hand fuses, may well be circa 1000 to 1. The negative results would only be 0.001 or 0.1% of total users. That is being very generous. That, dear readers, does not a controversy make. Hel-loo! Regardless of education, work experience, respect, years of experience, how vociferous or obstreperous, Intelligence, cost of system, we can throw the outliers out. You can promote Wolfie any way you like, but there are better educated, more experienced, richer and more respected audiophiles, with better systems, and a lot of them, who had POSITIVE RESULTS. As we all should know by know, NO SINGLE TEST can settle a debate. It’s only a data point. Too many things can go wrong. As much as this might pain the Naysayers, even the smooth talking ones, THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY. THE CONTROVERSY IS ONLY IN THE MIND OF THE NAYSAYERS. Your friend and humble scribe, geoff kait machina dynamica |
almarg wrote, 1. Many of the purported explanations of the benefits that have been reported to be provided by expensive fuses amount to descriptions of their physical characteristics, and/or descriptions of how they were manufactured, but do not explain how those characteristics would affect the power supply circuitry and/or audio circuitry that is downstream of the fuse within the component, at least to an audibly significant degree and in a way that would be consistently beneficial. >>>That theory appears to be nothing more than a red herring, or some other logical fallacy, since it’s not (rpt not) necessary to explain what you’re referring to. It’s actually not necessary to explain anything. But what has been offered in way of “explanation” is that “expensive” aftermarket fuses incorporate a number of innovations that PROMOTE better sound quality. These innovations have been described a great many times on these threads. (Wolfie loses all credibility as a legitimate skeptic by his oft repeated claims that nobody ever gives any explanation at all. Give me a break! Which makes your promoting of Wolfie seem all the more bizarre. Even NASA incorporates some of these fuse innovations in their fuses for space operations, as I described earlier. These innovations include but are not necessarily limited to RF shielding, vibration control, conductivity enhancement through pure wire and end caps. Also, as I’ve oft stated, It’s not up to the users group to EXPLAIN how fuses work. What we have provided in terms of data overwhelming user testimony is evidence, a preponderance of evidence, actually. Addendum: Hats 🤠 off to you for backing off the “atmosphere fuse holder theory” which is obviously flawed. 😛 |
🐑 shadorne It isn’t just implausible, it is as ridiculous as a nude emperor said to be wearing fantastic clothes that only wise audiophiles can see. This time it is only those with golden ears and only the most high end resolving systems that can hear the sound of a fuse coming out of their speakers. The real answer for the audible effects is simply the “power of suggestion” - people think they hear a difference because they want to - after all nobody likes to admit that they were duped so the desire to imagine even a slight improvement is overwhelming. Nice try, but we’ve moved beyond those angst ridden sentiments. Somebody’s following the wrong, you know ..... 🐑 🐑 🐑 🐑🚶🏻♂️ |
@cleeds I was sort of wondering the same myself? If it is supposed to be a reference to somebody sending him a SR Blue fuse to try I cannot remember seeing him make that statement anywhere here? Now I remember Wolf saying that. And I remember George saying he would NEVER try a Blue fuse. Maybe I missed something? |
Yes agreed. I am confounded as to why folks don’t understand the importance of a fuse in terms of sound quality. Bypass one and listen as you will quickly understand it is a bottleneck. Why don’t these same folks argue that a similarly sized diode, IEC prong material etc.., also don’t make a difference? What about those small, thin wired resistors? They all make a difference. What about small value caps? Come on folks try for yourself. All these parts matter. What about those short binding posts? Short wire runs from a board to an amp’s output binding posts? You bet they matter and quality materials and design make a difference. |
grannyring I am confounded as to why folks don’t understand the importance of a fuse in terms of sound quality ... Come on folks try for yourself.They don't understand because they don't really want to understand or explore. That's become pretty obvious. And then there's the one poster who keeps dangling his apparent $25K hustle as an "opportunity." |
grannyring if I might propose an answer I would say knowledgeable people do in general understand the importance of a fuse and how it can affect sound quality. A fuse is a relatively simple device on the grand scale of things. They also tend to be very skeptical about way more expensive "audiophile" fuses that make sonic claims to justify the cost with little or no concrete information (other than individual opinions where favorable) to back them up. It’s that simple really. |
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@mapman I can see the scepticism point just fine, especially if it was limited to the couple of dozen proponents on this thread say. However as sales appear to be in the tens of thousands that would indicate a lot of audio folk have taken the plunge. And lets face it in this little "high end tweaked " hobby of ours, tens of thousands must number quite a decent percentile of said audio tweakers. Now it is possible out of those thousands there could be a lot of dissapointed customers, I guess they all dont haunt Agon forums...lol. |
I was skeptical also. I no longer am based on actually modifying and carefully listening to gear where I removed fuses and also added aftermarket fuses. The point I’m trying to make is I actually took the time, did the work, listened very carefully and in the end learned something. However I have put countless hours into modifying gear and listening to the results. It is actually one of my passions and I have learned that parts do in fact sound different including fuses. If anyone here has modifying or building skills I highly recommend that you try bypassing your fuses just for a listening session to hear the results. The fuse is playing a sound quality roll and listening bias has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I suppose it’s easy for me to now understand as I have spent so much time under the hood with parts like fuses. |
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gdhal ... it was I who suggested that the communication be taken offline and made private ...You insist on privacy because this is a scam. That’s why the moderators are deleting you. If you keep the discussion here in public, on the forum, we could discuss your proposed listening test. But that would expose your hustle, wouldn’t it? There's nothing "inappropriate" about discussing listening tests on Audiogon. |
almarg wrote, ”I would expect that unrecognized extraneous variables, for example differences in equipment warmup states, differences in AC voltage and noise characteristics, differences in room temperature or humidity (temperature is a fundamental parameter in the physics underlying the operation of semiconductors such as transistors, diodes, and integrated circuit chips), flushing of internal digital memory that occurs when power is cycled, etc., are responsible for **some** of the reported benefits.” >>>>Another illogical argument. Why is it illogical, you ask? Because the reported benefits of fancy fuses occur IN SPITE of those unknown variables, differences in warm up states, differences in room temperature or humidity, or the underlying physics of anything, etc., NOT (rpt not) BECAUSE OF THEM. That’s the advantage of having a very large CONFIRMED user population on the order of many tens of thousands who have almost all had POSITIVE RESULTS. Those positive results were obviously obtained in every possible situation, not only the ones you refer to but many others. Thus, without further ado, I hereby throw all the negative results out. You know, Wolfie, Mapman, whoever. |
cleeds ..... You insist on privacy because this is a scam.... There’s nothing "inappropriate" about discussing listening tests on Audiogon. No scam, I can assure you. In the scientific double blinded cable test thread, since closed to everyone, I posted - on 03-16-2018 6:56pm an EXAMPLE ONLY (pardon the keyboard problem) procedure, which for no good reason was rebutted and subsequently deleted. I then went on to request (after your rebuttal) that you and others submit *any* alternative procedure. Not surprisingly, that too was/is to much to ask, and you/others never did. So in effect, what you are stating about the appropriateness or inappropriateness of discussing listening tests is also not true. |
