ISSUE: Change your MONITOR speakers or change your NAIM electronics
Somebody gave you some dodgy and incomplete advice by ignoring key influencing factors and pushed their fave NAIM bias on you.:
All brand components have their own bespoke sonic signature , That’s why system synergy ( or conversely a lack of it …) is so important when cobbling together a full system.
NAIM electronics is a fine brand that is one that polarizes listeners. When you do your research , you may find that NAIM’s sound divides the listeners into either a love it or hate it camp. One size does not fit all ….Sure ….NAIM can sound lovely with certain speakers, but yours don’t seem to fit.
My personal audition experience with MONITOR speakers and also my observations with them at audiofests suggests MONITOR is a better suited to avoid NAIM ( see polarization divide above) . CYRUS and MONITOR were paired at an audiofest I attended a couple of years ago.
Others I would audition are
- Sim Audio Moon
- Musical Fidelity
- Cambridge Audio
- Exposure
- Arcam ( you already know how much you liked this ,,,)
Alternatively…. Yes …. NAIM can be a fine partner with numerous other Brit speaker brands . Think HARBETH, SPENDOR, ATC ….
TAKEAWAY
Go audition alternate stablemates to MONITOR , or conversely audition better pairings with NAIM . There is no singular silver bullet magic solution in these forums.
Some drive Fords….some drive Chevys.
|
I am sorry to hear that your upgrade did not go as planned. I am not familiar with the sound of Naim equipment, but regardless it is on the low end power-wise for the speakers. I could not find exact specs on the speakers as there are a lot of Monitor Platinum models, but I am guessing that the impedance curve is probably not favorable for the Naim amp. Based on what you feel is missing from the sound, I suggest starting with a new power amplifier that has more wattage, and performs better at lower impedances and is known to have a touch of warmth. Budget will drive your choices of course, I highly recommend looking at the used market here and on USAM.
|
I am not the only person who likes Naim digital gear but not their amplifiers. I would focus on finding a substitute there. If you can get your hands on other interconnects and speaker cables you can try something different. Naim amps are somewhat sensitive to choice of cabling, particular the speaker wires. If that doesn't do it, look to what you changed which you did not like which is the amp and linestage. The components that affect the sound the most are the speakers, followed by the amplifier and then the linestage.
The only way you can determine what amps will do it for you is to audition some candidates, preferably by borrowing them and using them in your system. For solid state, I suggest looking at brands like Ayre and Lavardin. These deliver a sweet sound that is quite different from that of the Naim amps.
But, my own favorite amplification is tube amps, particularly lower powered tube amps. I don't know the specific requirements of your Monitor speaker, but, it is often the case that people are satisfied with amps of much lower output than they would normally consider when it comes to tube gear. I suggest that you look at an integrated amp from Synthesis Audio (Italian).
|
+1 @akg_ca
Have the Naim pieces had time enough to fully break in? If not,that may be the problem. If it has, then you have a synergy problem. It’s not a lack of wattage. 60 wpc is enough to power the speaker which are 90db efficient. The amp and speakers don’t play well together. Change the amp/pre or the speakers
|
Personally a fan of Arcam, I feel it's highly underrated so going off that was a mistake IMHO. I’d avoid getting onto the cable merry go round personally. EIther go back to Arcam or consider Parasound or Luxman as good directions.
|
Go back to the Arcam if you liked it before.
|
OP:
I’ve been thinking about your original set up and what you were convinced to change to. Arcam and Monitor Audio are great, but extremely neutral. For many audiophiles they are too laid back and warm sounding. They crave the music to have some bite, extra emphasis in the upper midrange and/or treble. IMHO, B&W and McIntosh fit in this category. If you were really happy with Arcam/Monitor Audio (and I would be) then those giving you advice to go to Naim and other cables fit in this category.
You don’t have to crave the B&W / Mc sound to be a real audiophile. Get what you like and stick to it.
|
One of my most accomplished audio buddies is a fan of NAIM amps and preamp. He pairs them with Focal Electra 906, and prefers the NAIM over some very good Cary tube gear.
The most important thing is that you like the sound. It's hard to say where the issue is for you, but it's always very personal, and of course interactive with the rest of a given system. It might help if you could give some hints as to whether it's too bright, or too dull, lacking bass, booming bass, etc. Have you tried adjusting the speaker placement a bit to increase or decrease bass reinforcement, and toe in? I fine tuned my system with things like cables, power supply upgrades, placement, etc., and other stuff that's supposed to be barely audible, but yet it's made the difference between being good and spectacular with pretty much the same gear.
|
Someone told you that Naim is better than Arcam. Wow...
|
One of my most accomplished audio buddies is a fan of NAIM amps and preamp. He pairs them with Focal Electra 906, and prefers the NAIM over some very good Cary tube gear.
p.s.: I failed to mentioned that his preference for NAIM products is very specific to certain model numbers, but I don't know which ones he prefers.
|
Chalk this up to an expensive lesson learned — never just blindly follow a salesperson’s (or anyone’s) advice because your ears are the only thing that matters. A good dealer should let you borrow equipment for a day or two to let you hear it in your system, and in this case that would’ve told you everything you needed to know. Time to start over and get rid of the Naim amp/pre so you can start enjoying music again. Obviously Arcam is a good place to start, but their sound could’ve changed over time so again don’t just buy blindly. Luxman and Parasound were mentioned and would also be worth exploring, and I’ll add Ayre as another good candidate. I’d try to get an amp with at least 100Wpc to make sure you have enough headroom for your speakers. Best of luck.
|
FOCAL speakers and NAIM electronics are the same company now .
https://www.focalpoweredbynaim.com
No small wonder that your buddy suggested the pairing out of one or more of possible reasons:
-possible EZPZ convenience? Dunno
- possible limited audio brand experience …dunno again…,
, or just plain considerable personal bias simply cuz he likes them! but in total who cares now ?
But to carve out 50% of that bespoke synergy match he enjoys, and arbitrarily stapling it to your speakers and then selling it to you blindly was a gross disservice to you.
TAKEAWAY
Resulting fix = a partial or full system replacement for you that is not insignificant to your wallet drain.
Yes, FOCAL with NAIM make a decent enough pairing IMO,….. but regardless, that duo combo never has and still does not stir my drink FWIW.This hobby is very personal journey with a “like” or “dislike” outcome that no post in this forum can predict for you,
|
Monitor Audio speakers are fairly dry, analytical, definitely not sweet or warm. (From what I had and heard)
https://speakerchoices.com/
|
I've owned several speakers(several Wilson Audio, Aerial Acoustics, Dynaudio Devore Audio, Revel, Artemis EOS, and a couple more). I currently own Monitor Audio PL500 II speakers. They are like most decent speakers and can sound dry, analytical, sweet, or warm. It depends on the ancillary components and room acoustics. I tried a DCS Rossini APEX and the sound was unbearably analytical, but with other DACs the sound is sweet or on the slightly warm side. The recording is another variable that has just as much impact on the tonality of my system, as the components..
|
Thanks to ALL of you for your kind and helpful replies!
Truth be told, for last 2 years I almost stopped listening to the music because of lack of understanding what happened wrong and how to change it. You encouraged me enough to try again. :)
I finally decided to get rid of Naim amp & preamp and come back for a while to an old Arcam amp & preamp. Let's see how it sounds now to my ears. There's another question to ask as I've been thinking about a tubed DAC like Lampizator Baltic, but I have no idea if it will be a good match up with Monitor Audio + Arcam, but I also don't know if Arcam will be replaced with something else... Should I buy Lampi and then try to match up a amp to it or the other way around?
@akg_ca thanks, I'll definitely try some of the amps you mentioned.
@zlone specs of my speakers - https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/support/past-products/platinum-ii/platinum-pl100-ii/#specs
@larryi honestly I didn't know before that many people don't like Naim amps. my problem was I asked for suggestions on.. Naim forum. What possibly could go wrong? :-)
@erik_squires yeah, definitely going off was a mistake. I'm not sure though if Arcam and Monitor Audio are extremely neutral - honestly, it's not what I remember from the past, but XLO cables are considered to be fast and detailed so maybe that made a nice combo?
@knotscott it's too bright and too cold, even bass sounds harsh. It lacks of sweetness and warmth. Speaker placement is not an issue, I moved to another house and nothing changed :)
|
Go back to your old system. It was foolish to listen to that salesman's advice! What he wanted you to buy was a waste of your money! He was a predator looking to earn a commission by selling you that more expensive Naim system.
|
The Lampizator DAC will look pretty but compared to a Benchmark DAC it is way overpriced!
|
Well the problem was introduced with addition of Naim components. Don’t change speakers or cables. I would recommend focusing on the amplifier first. Amp is absolutely critical. Figure out the budget and start researching. For time being put your Arcam stuff back in and list your Naim stack on the used market.
That’s what I would do.
|
Should I buy Lampi and then try to match up a amp to it or the other way around?
Since you liked the sound before with the CD5/Arcam combo I’d try to get that sound back in place first and then try a DAC, which could well provide significant improvements. Which DAC will depend on what specific improvements you’re looking for at that point, but I’d get the base system squared away first before throwing another variable into the mix.
|
The Lampi Baltic 4 is a sonic bargain, musical and detailed. You’ll likely find it very engaging.
|
Well, at least you made said salesman's day with the Naim stack purchase. 👍🤷♂️
The only 'stack' I've ever owned was the Kenwood 'L-07' series with the mono amps; since it's been a 'this or that with what' episode that I finally fought into submission. More or less, anyway...;)
What 'tweaked you off' about the old setup? Resolution, voice clarities, instruments 'off' a tad, and all the other terminology your read here?
"Hard to Rx a patient when asked about the pain, it's described as ''...everything...kinda...' "
|
If you believe the music has suffered after buying all the Naim stuff (which is very good equipment) you can either get all new electronics or different speakers (which will make the biggest difference in what you hear). Going the speaker route would almost certainly be less costly. If at all possible, try to find a dealer that allows you to try the speakers in your place or that has similar equipment in the store to hear various speakers.
|
Go back to the store and kick him in the nuts!
You got naimed!!
|
|
