Hi Bill,
Congratulations on your Lyngdorf, I'm glad that it meets all of your audio system needs. I've seen reviews/articles on it but haven't heard one. I'm a thoroughly happy SET lifer I've come to realize. It gratifying to find music listening contentment by which ever means gets us there 😊😊.Â
Charles |
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So my long awaited 3 SR Black UEF Power Cords arrived today after a long but rewarding wait :) Decided to use one of them with my PliXir power conditioner first and the improvement in the sound quality was immediate and not subtle at all. The second PC went to my Sony HDD HAP Z1-ES music server while the Third PC was connected to my AVM C9 Integrated amp. All I can say is wow!! For lack of an audiophile vocabulary, there were extra details I was picking up from very familiar tracks and the bass was deeper and sounded so much tighter. Have never heard the intro to this particular track sound so aggressive before. Love what I am hearing so far and have decided to leave all the cords as it is in the system and enjoy the music in the break in process. Apologies for not being able to articulate what I am hearing into words but one thing I know is that I will be looking to purchase the SR ground block next, after the PC's break in. |
Frazee,
No need for apologies, you've expressed the main point unambiguously. The power cables improved your system's sound quality and that says it all. Â Congratulations.Â
Charles |
Has anyone tried after market fuses on PS Audio power plants? |
charles1dad,
Thank you for your kind words. I replaced my power conditioner today with the Kemp Electroniks power strip, and it was another eye opening upgrade, or should I say ear tingling. https://www.divineaudio.co.uk/kemp-elektroniks-power-strip-6-way I was skeptical when first introduced to this product and it doesn't weigh much at all compared to my 20kg PliXiR BAC 3000. However when I brought it home for a trial test, I was stunned that the noise floor was even lower than my much bigger BAC 3000. It made details clearer and images more precise which improved the overall musicality of the sound. Don't let the modest price deceive you, it will surprise many with much more expensive power conditioners. New power cords and power strip this week, hope my wife doesn't get suspicious. :) |
OP, curious if you have ever brought home a Ref 6 to try yet? Â I have the SR Black fuses in my gear, and they are fine. Â Not really "game changers" in my opinion, but to each his own. Â But the Ref 6 is really a game changer. Â I did have a ref 3 previously, and then a 5 and 5se, and now a 6, and can tell you that these are all more significant upgrades than the fuse. Â Not meaning to flame here, just keeping it real... Â Give it a try!
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Well, I’d surely hope and expect a 15K line stage to provide (far) greater sonic/system impact than a 120.00 dollar premium fuse. One is an expensive and major component, the other an effective tweak that’s not even 1 % the cost of the ARC preamplifier. Some sense of proportion is advisable. 😊 The Indians just tied the Cubs in the 8th inning. This has the making of a classic 7th game.
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^^^ Nope, haven't tried the REF-6. Â I've been told that its a fantastic preamp. Â
What I've been trying to do over the past year is to see how far I can bring my present system by using tweaks that really work.Â
OP |
The Indians just tied the Cubs in the 8th inning. This has the making of a classic 7th game.
Sounds like a wold game. It's a shame it comes on too late for us East Coasters. It was 5-1 when I went to bed. I have to get up for work at 4:45 AM EST. Just as well, my "team" lost. |
Hi Frank,
That's been my philosophy as well,  getting the most  potential from your current components.  It has been very enjoyable  and educational and my system has certainly responded.  You have definitely extracted significant improvements in your tweaking endeavors.Â
Charles |
Hi John,
7th game that goes into extra innings who could ask for more.  It can be said without hyperbole that both teams battled and gave their all. Supremely competitive World Series,  no shame for the  Indians.Â
Charles |
I am looking to replace stock fuses with SR Blacks in my system. I was thinking of ordering fuses with higher current rating than installed stock fuses for two reasons: first, I understand that they could blow at a different threshold than stock fuses and are expensive to replace, and second that I have heard that higher current rated fuses sound better, which would make sense due to their higher current carrying capacity. I wanted to ask people on this thread your thoughts and experience with this. Typically, how much higher rating do you replace the stock fuses with? eg, my Amp (ML27.5) uses 10A fuse, would you replace that with a 12A or 15A? Any thoughts on this subject will be greatly appreciated. |
Hi alexa6404,
My experience is that the SR Black fuses are delicate. I went with a 2 amp vs a 1 amp on my Ayre preamp’s power supply after the 1 amp blew. I have used boutique fuses for many years and this is the first one that I ever had one blow. Due to the length of time it takes for a new SR black fuse to settle in, I can’t say for sure that the higher rated fuse sounds better, but I am confident that it does not sound worse.
Can’t speak to the advisability of using a fuse with a higher rating than spec’d by the mfr. Perhaps almarg will weigh in on this?
Best to you alexa6404,
Dave |
Thanks, Dave. Yes, as you found and as several others have reported earlier in the thread in appears that the SR Blacks blow a bit more readily than at least most stock and boutique fuses having the same ratings. And I agree that if there would be any sonic differences at all between SR Black fuses having somewhat different current ratings they would most likely be in favor of the fuse having the higher current rating (which presumably would have slightly less resistance and slightly less fluctuation in resistance as a function of variations in the current being drawn through it, although both parameters could very well be too small to be significant with either fuse). Also, I would expect that the current rating of the stock fuse in most components is determined by the designer somewhat imprecisely, by simply multiplying the nominal current draw of the component by a somewhat arbitrarily chosen factor (while also taking into account surges that occur at turn-on), as in general there is probably no need for a great deal of precision in that determination. That being one of the reasons why I would expect that most fault conditions that might arise in a component and require the fuse to blow would result in a much higher current draw than the rating of the stock fuse, and a fuse with a somewhat higher rating than stock but the same fast blow/slow blow characteristic would therefore seem very likely to provide adequate protection.
So in Alexa6404’s case the risk of unnecessarily blowing an expensive 10 amp fuse would seem to outweigh the risk that secondary damage might result from a fault which causes a current draw of just a few amps more than that but does not cause a higher rated fuse to blow. The manufacturer might see it differently, of course, because their interest is presumably in minimizing warranty claims and/or repair costs, but that’s how I see it. Although I suppose that there could be some manufacturers who might use the substitution of a fuse having a higher than stock current rating, if they became aware of it, as an excuse to invalidate warranty coverage of a repair that might become necessary for unrelated reasons.
As to deciding between the 12 amp and 15 amp ratings, my guess is no better than anyone else’s, but FWIW I suppose I’d go with 12.
Best regards, -- Al
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Hi gbmcleod,
Alexa6404 asked a question and we answered it...at least Al did.
Best to you,
Dave |
It's possible that SR fuse is affected by the turn-on sequence. Â My Pass XP-15 phono stage has no on/off switch. Â It's powered on once the AC cable is connected. Â I blew two Red fuses before I successfully used a Red with higher amperage rating.
By comparison, my PS Audio BHK amp is less likely to blow a fuse because it uses a lengthy turn-on sequence. Â I'll know for sure when my Black fuses arrive.
I also agree that some fuses are directional. Â I tried an Hi Fi gold fuse in my BHK Preamp. Â In a single blind test, my wife (who's a musician with better hearing) agreed that one direction was pretty good, while the other was quite harsh (almost unlistenable). Â This is a surprising because I never thought that it would be so obvious.Â
We'll try the same test with the Black after the burn-in. Â
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"It's possible that SR fuse is affected by the turn-on sequence. Â My Pass XP-15 phono stage has no on/off switch. Â It's powered on once the AC cable is connected. Â I blew two Red fuses before I successfully used a Red with higher amperage rating."
Exactly the same as my Ayre K-1xe phonolinepreamp/power supply where I lost two 1A Black fuses before going to a 2A.
Best to you mtseymour,
Dave
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mtseymour,
Have you replaced all the fuses in your BHK amp with the black fuses? Â How much better is your BHK after replacing the 4 rail fuses compare to the 2 main ones? Â thx.
Allan |
Thank you for your inputs about the value and margin in black fuses. I am now experimenting with the direction of these fuses.Â
I have been told that SR fuses should be oriented such that the writing on the fuse is in the direction of signal flow (ie looking at the SR label on the fuse, arrow going from S side to R side of the fuse).Â
For fuses on AC power line, I am assuming that AC "signal" flows into the equipment thru Live/Line/Hot terminal and out thru the Neutral terminal.
Thus, for fuses on the Live terminal of the input IEC power connector, the S side of the SR marking on the fuse should be towards the Line terminal of the IEC connector. Â
For fuses on the Neutral terminal, the R side of the SR marking is towards the Neutral terminal of the IEC Neutral connector.Â
Please let me know your comments and if this theory is a proper way to orient fuses.
Alex
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For fuses on AC power line, I am assuming that AC "signal" flows into the equipment thru Live/Line/Hot terminal and out thru the Neutral terminal....
... Please let me know your comments and if this theory is a proper way to orient fuses.
Hi Alex, While energy is of course transferred in the direction from the outlet to the component, the AC hot and AC neutral conductors are involved in that process equally. And the AC current alternates direction in both of those conductors (and also in the fuse), every 8.333 milliseconds for 60 Hz AC, and every 10 milliseconds for 50 Hz AC. Beyond that, all I can say in response to your question is to suggest that you read my post in this thread dated 10-28-2016, which appears near the middle of the previous page. And note that if the comment by Atmasphere that I quoted in the thread is correct (and he has indicated that he has verified his contention experimentally) it would follow that the existence of sonic differences resulting from changing the direction of a fuse does not establish that fuses are inherently directional. IMO. (And also, as you’ll see in the comments quoted in the post I referred to, in the opinions of four different experienced designers of well regarded audio electronics). Opinions of other audiophiles, most of whom are not electronics designers, will certainly differ in many cases. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
Al wrote,
"IMO. (And also, as you’ll see in the comments quoted in the post I referred to, in the opinions of four different experienced designers of well regarded audio electronics). Opinions of other audiophiles, most of whom are not electronics designers, will certainly differ in many cases."
Thanks for a classic example of the warhorse logical fallacy, the Appeal to Authority.
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What is a logical fallacy about appealing to Authority?
If the authority is in fact experts, as it would seem in this case, then the deduction in fact has a greater chance of being true.
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Gk you either have a lot of cohunes or are just oblivious. You are the king of logical fallacies. Its a logical fallacy for you to accuse that of some of the most credible folks around. Â Clearly the only authority in your world is you. Â And you appeal to yourself everyday. |
Dave:
I've also owned the Ayre K-1xe pre with internal phono for a few years. Enjoyed it a lot. Â Audition the KX-5 Twenty if you can because it's stellar.
Allan:
I have four Black fuses on order. Â One for my BHK Preamp (which replaced my Pass XP-20), one for my PS Audio Directstream DAC, and 2 for my BHK 250 amp. Â I won't replace the 4 rail fuses on the amp because it's too expensive, and I don't think that other owners have gone this route. I may get a 5th fuse for my Pass XP-15 phono if things work out.
Paul |
mapman
"What is a logical fallacy about appealing to Authority?
If the authority is in fact experts, as it would seem in this case, then the deduction in fact has a greater chance of being true."
It might be true but it also might not be true. That’s the point. Pointing to one’s credentials doesn’t automatically win arguments. If two experts disagree how do you decide who is right? Do you really think all experts in a given field, say electronics design, agree with each other on every issue? That’s not logical, Captain. Not to mention it’s almost certainly true that many electronics designers are actually even not aware of the directionality of wire controversy or aftermarket fuses or arrows on (unshielded) interconnects.
mapman
"Gk you either have a lot of cohunes or are just oblivious."
Is this going to be like a multiple choice?
mapman
"You are the king of logical fallacies."
Really? How so, Stringbean? Not saying I don’t like being called king. But I am king of logical fallacies and king of logical truths.
mapman
"Its a logical fallacy for you to accuse that of some of the most credible folks around. Clearly the only authority in your world is you. And you appeal to yourself everyday."
Credibility is subjective, grasshopper. If you accept what some folks say without question I say, good for you!
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"Dave:
I’ve also owned the Ayre K-1xe pre with internal phono for a few years. Enjoyed it a lot. Audition the KX-5 Twenty if you can because it’s stellar."
Hi Paul,
I dare not. My wife and I are raising a Grandson (unexpectedly) and I am grateful to be blessed with the equipment that I already own, yet even more so to be able to make a positive impact on the life of this fine young man.
Best to you Paul,
Dave |
Dave,
As most of us have experienced as we progress through ours lives, life can and will hit with the expected. No doubt your grandson is fortunate to be cared for by you and your wife.
I wish the very best to all of you.
Charles |
Thanks Charles.
You are a class act.
Dave |
Paul,
Thank you for your reply!
Allan |
For anyone interested in exploring the benefits of graphene further, I highly recommend looking into the Graphene Extreme line of signal and power cables from Cerious Technologies. There is a thread devoted to them on the cables forum.
I purchased a digital cable and PC for my CD Transport. As a result, I am enjoying profound improvements, particularly in the areas of realism, palpability, clarity, detail, and true-to-life tonality of instruments. I will definitely be buying more cables as funds permit. The prices are VERY reasonable, and Bob Grost, the owner of Cerious, has been a pleasure to deal with.
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OMG!
Talk about luck ... we found two Decca 10" Django Reinhardt LPs in a used record store this week for ten-bucks each. They both feature Reinhardt on guitar of course, and Stephane Grappelly on violin.
The vinyl and covers are in mint condition. They are french pressings recorded in 1938, the year of my birth. The sound, considering the era, is excellent ... and talk about some swingin' jazz ...! Â Some real toe tapping music. Wow.Â
I'm going to burn both of them onto a CD and archive the records. They are way too nice to have an accident with. :-)
And by the way, another unabashed compliment for the way the Audio Technica ART-9 plays mono records. I thought the OC-9III was great on mono, but the ART-9 really raises the stakes. If you're thinking about buying a high dollar mono cartridge, I'd consider the ART-9 instead and keep a lot of bucks in your pocket.
Frank |
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^^^ NIce ... thank you. Â Pretty much what we've all been experiencing. Â Very cost effective tweaks. Â I'm in the process of getting system covered with Herbie's tube dampeneres at the moment ... another VERY worthwhile tweak. After the tubes are done, I want to try a set of SR's PHT's on my phono cartridge. I've read some rave reviews on these little babies.Â
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The nice gear the fuses were in probably had something to do with earning all those notes. Â I wonder how many notes earned with the original fuses? Â Â
Would be be nice to be able to earn so much credit so easily. Â |
mapman
14,027 posts
The nice gear the fuses were in probably had something to do with earning all those notes
snarkaleptic alert!
Mapman, congrats on reaching the magic 14,000.Â
😃
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"I want to try a set of SR's PHT's on my phono cartridge."
Hi papa,
Please let me/us know what you think of these when you get to them.
Best to you,
Dave
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Mapman, congrats on reaching the magic 14,000.
Could not have done it without you buddy. |
mapman
14,028 posts
geoffkait:Mapman, congrats on reaching the magic 14,000.
"Could not have done it without you buddy."
That’s what she said. You’re going where no man has gone before, Spockman. 😳
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To all of my friends posting here in the fuse pub ... I discovered a cool classical website this evening. You can subscribe for free. The sound quality is really quite good. Sounds great on my Audioengine A2+ speakers playing though my PC. Picture quality is excellent. They have a YUGE catalog too. http://www.medici.tv/Enjoy ... |
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Also note you can get a 5 pack of excellent Littelfuses for under 9 bucks including shipping! They really help in bringing cellos out of the mix and then throwing them out into the alley behind the Beacon Theater, providing more coherant blending of timbre and heavy breathing in recordings of any musicians, providing blacker blacks, PRAT (and Whitney), Â rounder roundness, more uppity upness, sound staging so realistic you can aurally sense the cigarette butts and ballerina sweat clumps in the dusty corners of the venue, approving nods from others who detect a modicum of sanity from your "special" self, and, if needed, utterly melt into useless tiny glass tubes of blown wire thus saving your audio gear and rendering the Holidays safer. It's a wonderful thing. Under 9 bucks. |
+1 Wolf.
Straight out of someones book of voodoo!
Cheers George |
I've been following this thread for some time, most informative on web. Thought I would relate some of my experiences with fuses. Most have been positive, use SR Reds in some of my equipment. However, I've had problems with blown SR fuses in two of my 845 SET amps. My Art Audio Carissa Signature twice blew SR fuses on initial start up. Recently, my Coincident Turbo 845 SE blew 4 SR fuses in succession (I don't recall any generic 6.3a fuse failures). Two 6.3a slow blow (stock value) and two 8a slow blow all blew up on initial start ups. Three were replaced free of charge after communication with Synergistic and dealer, I could not get reimbursed for the last 8a, SR wanted me to replace with 10a which I declined (now aprox. 40% above stock value) and dealer simply ignored me. I notice some dealers are now stating on their web sites no warranty/no returns on audiophile fuses. Probably getting burned too often. My take: Be wary if using these in high current amplifiers.
These failures also cause me to speculate as to SR versus generic fuse protective capabilities. It appears that SR fuses are overly protective, I just wonder about protection in steady state operation (after initial start up inrush current). If a generic 6.3a fuse can withstand repeated inrush currents and even 8a SR fuse can't withstand a single inrush current how can they be protecting the same in steady state operation. Perhaps a 10a SR fuse would have an approximate equal protective capacity to 6.3a generic fuse in steady state operation? It seems logical that inrush current overages and steady state overages would hold steady, thus, the fuse should survive and or fail accordingly. All 6.3a fuses should be able to withstand exactly the same inrush and steady state overages. I would think there has to be an exact breaking point for the wire in the fuse and this would be the same for all equal value fuses. Obviously, there is not this degree of standardization and/or exactitude for fuse manufacturers. Makes me wonder about the exactitude of equipment fuse ratings.
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mapman
14,072 posts
12-10-2016 5:48pm
Yes what a bargain
Uh, didn't you forget the smiley face?
😀
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^^^ Over time I've been through an entire set of HiFi Tuning fuses, SR Red fuses and SR Black fuses
in each one of my components
with no fuse failures at all. Â |
Hi Sns,
When I was using the Red fuses I had one blow when powering on one of my Frankenstein mono blocks. The past year I've used  the Black fuses in my Line Stage, DAC and mono blocks without any problems.Â
You have two well regarded 845 SET Â amplifiers, how do they differ sonically from one another?
Charles |
I’m using a SR Black large15A slo-blo in my Hegel H30 and never had a failure. Since SR doesn’t offer a large 7A slo-blo, using 6.3A SR Black in ARC Ref250SE and zero failures. According to the spec, each mono can draw up to 10A instantaneously.
I’ve replaced all SR Reds with Blacks and cycled through Hifi-Tuning, Isoclean, Audio Magic ... and never had a failure.
I had generic fuse failures with several boutique components. Every time the manufacturer suggests using a larger size so I’m always suspicious of their specifications, tolerance and design.
PM me if anyone interested in SR RED large slo-blo 15A and 6.3A (2 available). Also Isoclean large 7A slo-blo (2 available) :-):-) |
