I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Charles, You have a very nice setup, all Coincident equipment is major bang for the buck. The Carissa is modded to some degree, Coincident stock. The Coincident is higher resolution and more dynamic, tonality in my setup spot on, great amp. I've thought about changing out the coupling caps in the Coincident to Jupiter, which I did in Carissa, but things are too nice as is. I'm not even sure I heard that much improvement with the SR fuses in, but then they never lasted long enough to properly ascertain. I only use the Turbo in direct mode (bypassing input switching and volume pot), coloration and some loss of transparency using as preamp. I'm also in the midst of trying a variety of fuses in Turbo. The Radio Shack 6.3a are robust and have good sound quality, prefer them to other generic glass bodied fuses (6.3a is the stock value, and what came with amp). I tried the Schurter SMD-SPT's as well, the 6.3a has blown after a number of start ups. The 8a has yet to blow. I prefer the Radio Shack to these, Schurter has a flatter, more recessed soundstage, perhaps a touch more rolled off on top. Today I'm going to try AMR 8a. I also have some Bussman ceramic bodied, some generic ceramic bodied and other generic glass bodied to try. At this point I've given up using the SR fuses in the Turbo and Carissa. The large reservoir capacitors in 845 power supplies require too much current for too long , the SR fuses can't handle it. I would like to hear of someone successfully using boutique fuses in a 845 amp. A soft start circuit would likely solve this problem, but perhaps negatively affect sound quality (the old straight wire issue).
Limniscate, Some listeners don’t hear any(or little) difference with the premium fuses. The Reds were beneficial in my case and the Blacks were noticeably better. If you find that their effect is minimal just return them for a refund. What’s works for me may not do the same for you.
Sns, Thank you for your reply. I use the Jupiter Copper foil capacitors (input coupling stage) in my Frankenstein amplifier and I am happy with them. They are not a dramatic (night/day) transformation but certainly improved the sound enough to make the effort worthwhile. I imagine that they’d have similar impact with your Turbo amplifier. Different application but I got a more significant change with the Duelund CAST capacitors placed in my DAC (output coupling site) and in my speaker's crossover at the tweeter. Charles
Okay guys, I need some help in understanding what SR Black fuses to order this round. First, an admission and then a question.
The admission: I posted earlier in this thread that I had two SR 1A small Black FAST fuses blow in my Ayre K-1xe’s external power supply when plugging in the power cord. After re-inspecting the stock fuse I realized that the marking nomenclature had a "T" at the beginning, as in "T1L250V". Not knowing what that meant initially, I simply looked at the filament and saw that it was thin with no windings around it (like the higher value SLO BLO fuses I had around) and ASSUMED that the original fuse was FAST blow. After doing some research, I learned that the "T" means "Timed" and therefore SLO BLO. That probably explains my problems with the FAST BLO fusing blowing. A pretty expensive mistake. Doh!
The question. I am ready to order SR Black fuses for my REL subs. The "power fuse" is a small GLASS fuse that has this marking: "T5AL250", so I should order the SR SLO BLO 5 amp fuse. Now for the twister: The RELs each have two SMALL rail fuses on the circuit board inside the cabinet that have WHITE BODIES (CERAMIC?) with markings "T6.3 AH 250V". Research online gives mixed opinions as to the advisability of replacing a ceramic fuse with a glass one. Bottom line: is it okay to use SR Black fuses of the same rating to replace the stock CERAMIC ones in the RELs?
I believe that the main difference between a ceramic fuse and a comparable glass fuse is usually in what is called "breaking capacity." That refers to the maximum amount of current the fuse is rated to be able to safely interrupt when a fault requires it to blow, that would not result in it rupturing or exploding or failing to open the circuit. And I believe that ceramic fuses tend to have much higher breaking capacities than glass fuses that are otherwise similar.
So that difference would only come into play if a fault arises in the sub which requires the fuse to blow. But whether or not the breaking capacity of the SR glass fuse would be adequate in that event can't be predicted with any kind of certainty without knowing the details of the sub's circuit design, and without having detailed specifications on the SR fuse. FWIW, though, my guess, based just on instinct, is that it is unlikely that you would ever have a problem as a result of that difference.
A separate question, though, is whether it would be advisable to choose an SR fuse having a somewhat higher current rating than the stock fuse, to minimize the likelihood of the false blows that various people have reported in this thread. My guess, again based just on instinct, is that it would probably be a good idea to go up one rating increment, which if I recall correctly would be to 8 amps.
Thanks Al. I was speculating that REL used the ceramic fuses to buffer against extreme vibration as might be encountered inside a sub enclosure.
I am beginning to believe that upping the fuse rating to the next increment is indeed a good idea with all of the SR Black fuses for toroidal power supplies.
You're welcome, Dave. BTW, I'm not sure if the reference in the second paragraph of my previous post to the SR fuse being glass was correct. But in any event the rest of my post remains as stated.
Earlier this morning I was cleaning out an area under my staircase when I found an unopened package marked "QUAD". It is a brand new Treble panel (complete with dust cover) for the the Quad 57 electrostatic loudspeaker. .
This part might be unavailable. I would hate to throw it in the garbage. I am sure there is somebody out there who would love to have this.
I am not selling it but would gladly donate it someone who needs it.
I can't recall exactly what my question was (slow/fast, I think), but the reply from the very respected amp company said they recommended a higher value in after-market fuses. I didn't ask why, but they could be saying that a little more tolerance was still within the safe range, considering replacement cost.
Wow. Don't throw it away. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who would love to have a spare Quad 57 treble panel ... or perhaps someone restoring an old pair of Quads. Why not sell it here on A'gon?
I am presenting my favorite tweaks to my mature Audio system. The first is two pair of Shakti Hallographs. They are essential to my large 7 driver box speakers. I eliminated all of my sound absorption and deflecting panels when I set up the Hallographs. The sound improved tremendously so that I am not contemplating replacing my speakers (combined with SR black fuse effect).
As to the Shakti stones, they did not work in my audio system. Ben Piazza and Robert have attested to their effectiveness on my equipment. They may work well on other equipment
Secondarily,. Stillpoints are essential under my preamp which is built into a thin metal case with rubber feet. Robert knows how honky it sounded pre Stillpoint Ultra Ss were installed. I have other Stillpoint ultra minis and Ss under my resonating amps and EAR Acute CD player which don't suffer as much as the preamp
Thirdly, within 2 hours SR black fuses in the monoblock amps were my next most important tweak. WOW. It was easy two tell the best direction,.The incorrect direction resulted in a hashier, forward brighter sound. The correct sound is warmer sweeter and deeper . After 12 hours they were fabulous. I sent away for a higher rated fuse due to their blowing on startup at the manufacturer rating
I installed the SR black duplex and tried it with the bus's an fuses in the amps. Terrible at first. Fabulous bass after 30 hours but mids are missing as well as ambiance. At 60 hours about half way to the SR fuses quality of sound at 12 hours My wife told me give it another 60 hours and she will listen (she confirmed the 30 and 60 hour mark sound) I know I should wait 100 to 200 hours before listening but I wanted to judge the changes. I compare is to the Teslaplex SE I have been using. (I have installed multiple dedicated 20 amp lines for my audio when I built my house)
I've tried other tweaks and some are somewhat helpful and some were not. These are my favorites. I also have a Bryston isolation transformer 20 amp and some custom made distribution boxes
Getting the right tube and wiring I don't consider tweaks.
My my wife is a harsh critic. She has super sensitive hearing (and my hearing is perfect up to 15k). She hears and/or senses the smallest differences or none and let's me know yes or no. I sometimes disagree because I hear an improvement but relegate a loss somewhere else to her not knowing. But she's always right so I switch tweaks back to where it sounds most musical to her. E.G. Magico footers at $1200 a set. They created a black background and pleasing tone compared to my Stillpoints. Both Robert and my wife heard a dull musical sound instead. Totally uninvolving. Horrible pace. I agreed and sent them back immediately as I tried them under every piece of equipment and heard the same result
I felt I had a duty to report after reading 29 pages of postings. The naysayers are not helpful. Tweaks are system dependent. Higher end systems will generally be the most sensitive to changes. I chose to make the changes which give me the biggest bang for the buck. Also I designed parts of my listening environment so that I don't need some tweaks. I.e. Speaker wire lifters since my wires run under the 6" thick slab in a 11/2" pipe.
"Also I designed parts of my listening environment so that I don’t need some tweaks. I.e. Speaker wire lifters since my wires run under the 6" thick slab in a 11/2" pipe."
What is the advantage of running wires in a 1 1/2" pipe under the 6" slab?
Welcome to the fuse thread. Its good to see you posting here. You're going to love it when the SR tweaks get broken in. Like they say ,,, "You ain't heard nuttin' yet."
The advantage of running 25 foot speaker wires underground is no one will step on them as they cross the room. It's definitely cleaner and safer. Also no electrical interference or carpet caused static. 80 hours on the duplexes and they are more mid-range friendly but not at the fuse level yet.
Thanks for turning me on to Danny Barker. I'd never heard of him before and I have none of his recordings. In addition to great blues banjo, there's some really nice clarinet playing on the album as well.
I looked up Danny Barker on Spotify. They have three versions of "Fabulous" 1. A regular mono transfer. 2. A digital transfer. 3. Remastered for stereo. The best one? The original mono recording.
The advantage of running 25 foot speaker wires underground is no one will step on them as they cross the room.
This would be a good example of how to benefit from balanced line operation; running long speaker cables usually results in a loss of definition and bass impact. If the amps are kept by the speakers (not always possible) with the same cables but much shorter, and then balanced lines are used to transport the signal to the amps, the result is often greater definition at all frequencies.
I'm speaking from direct experience; I used to run speaker cables of the same length! The difference was easy to hear.
Robert agrees but he doesn't hear any loss of bass. Now with the black duplex, the immense bass is tight, deep and moves enough air that you can feel it. That's one area that I'm sure is just fine especially with my Grover Huffman large gauge speaker wire. As to definition, this system way outshines my living room system which has only 6 feet of speaker wire and is driving 3 10" woofers deep and tight, same speakers as Frank. My wife complained that her Metallica has too much bass on the main system with the new duplex . Otherwise, you are correct with having better sound when amps are proximately located to the speakers. I can't run balanced cables in my system
When I built my house I contemplated placing the amps near the speakers by putting in two underground floor duplexes at the speaker locations. I'm using them for Shakti air boxes instead
^^^ Steve ... You have such a beautiful dedicated room for your main system. How about posting it on the "Virtual System" site? I'm sure the other members would love to see it.
i just ordered the black duplex mainly because of the free fuse. I think the bass in my system is good enough already. I am hoping the duplex will make things more warm and musical instead. Did I just make a wrong move? Got 30 days to try it out. Looking forward to hear the final outcome from fleschler.
100 hours on the duplex with standard fuses. They appear to have broken in so that the mids are balanced with new superior bass and higher treble ranges and the ambiance, reverb, natural decay and air which was awol for the first three days are back. They sound similar to the black fuses. They may require an additional 100 hours to get to that place where the fuses were so beguiling and lush sounding. I will be installing the fuses after another 2 or 3 days just to see how far the duplex sounds.
A25105. The black fuses in my main amps only after only 2.5 hours made my system addictively richer, more detailed, and more musically interesting (until they blew). They were rated 5 amp slo-blo. SR Elliott is sending me 6.3 amp fuses.
I also installed a duplex in my living room system. That system consists of highly modified Dynaco ST 70 voltage regulated (not a ultralinear tap design), custom tube preamp, modified pioneer DVD-05 DVD/CD player (six big caps, high end Power cords on all equipment), Kenwood tuner and Legacy Signature 111s. The black duplex after 24 hours showed great improvement in smoothing out high end peakiness from the rear tweeter, better integration of sound, wider soundstage, and the same punchy deep bass as before. My wife liked it immediately compared for the bad taste from my main system after 30 hours. I will be installing a 4 amp fuse just in case as it is rated 3 amps but SR Elliot recommended the higher rating.
If if you have the Teslaplex SE and replace it with the black duplex, put it on your television/cable box/blue ray player. I have a 75" Sony x940C and it improved the picture. The other big TV improvement (my wife told me to keep the tweak because it the picture was obviously much better) is to install a set of Stillpoints ultra-minis under your cable box.
fleschler, thx for your post. I was able to see improvement on my LG OLED TV after I plugged it in along with other AV stuff to a Furman PST-8D outlet. Got it from Amazon for $80.
I am glad to hear the black duplex is smoothing out the high end on your system.
I just got one, and love it. It is very easy to assemble. I was pleasantly surprised at how much it improved the sound, especially with the addition of Herbie's Audio Lab Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders:
I have a problem with using the black duplex. I have only been using CDs to burn in the system. After 140 hours, I used my LPs for an excruciating hour of trial. The sound on about 10 mixed jazz, classical and pop records of great reknown sounded dynamically flat hashy sounding with really noisy record surfaces and not as interesting as CDs. I experimented with mixing the components into the two dedicated black and red SR duplexes. Immediately the LPs sounded better. The best combo was the two monoblock tube amps into the black duplex and the Bryston isolation transformer with all the other equipment and distribution box into the red. My wife felt this combo also yielded better results for CDs after I decided the best combo of duplexes. (I didn’t torture her with the LP hour). Unfortunately, this combo also lost the blacks excellent ucolored high end ambience and decay retrieval. The sound while more dynamic in macro sense lost micro inflections. Sort of a warmer tubey sound but thoroughly enjoyable for my wife’s rock or my vocals and strings.
I know that the black fuses in the amps will rocket my sound and enjoyment quality.from my too brief 10 hours of listening to them I will ask SR tomorrow if the combo of 20 amp Bryston iso trans and big 125 watt tube mono-blocks doesn’t work on the black duplex even though it works just fine on the red duplex with standard or black fuses. Oh man those black fuses reduced my LP noise on bad vinyl and increased the tonal and dynamic balance to a fantastic level as well as totally cleaning up the sound of any source. FYI. my analog front end consists of a modded VPI TNT VI. modded SME IV. Benz Ruby 3 and custom subminiature tube phono stage with an audiointerface SUT.
It’s interesting that in my living room system.i have the amp into the black and other equipment into the red (same 15 amp circuit on opposite sides of the wall). That combo is working well. I will probably spring for a black fuse for the Dynaco ST 70 too
Could it be that the resolving power of the Black Duplex is revealing something that you haven't heard before in your LP playback like a rising top end in your cartridge, or perhaps revealing a brightness in your IC's and/or PC's connecting up your phono? I'm not saying these are the problems, its just a suggestion.
On mixing the outlets: David Pritchard has done exactly that in his three systems to good effect.
He's really been the go to guy on the outlets. He's been mighty scarce around these parts lately. Hopefully he will be prompted by your post to chime in here with his valued opinions
If you want, Robert and I can bring over a few of our "reference" albums and give a listen. Robert hears like a bat, and as you know, he's not one to dance around the truth. So if there's something other than the outlet causing the problems Robert will be able to hear it.
I want to congratulate you and thank you for a wonderful thread that has brought many a new satisfaction with their audio experience.
The one year anniversary of this thread came and went with no fanfare, but I encourage you to review the entire thread as I did over the last two days and appreciate what you have done here for the many audiophiles that have found great success by simply trying these products and, even more impressively, graciously acknowledging the virtues of the feedback from those that did not.
You have endured the personal ridicule of flat-earthers, atheist, and those insatiably intent on ruining the pleasure and enthusiasm of others (often the three are of one mind and one voice) with grace and dignity in order to share your genuine experience with an audio product that you feel deeply about. All because, and only because, you care enough to put yourself on the line to bring new and great products to light.
Again, thank you very much for your contribution here and I wish you a very Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year.
150 hours on my smaller living room system. It sounds so musical and non-audiophile (as in high end systems at audio shows). The Signature IIIs highs are now totally integrated with the rest of the frequency spectrum. The rear tweeter always (15 years) stood out and sounded a bit hissy. Not now. It doesn't have the tweaks or isolation transformers, Hallographs or Stillpoints of my main system. I ordered the black fuse for it. This system is just so satisfying that I didn't think about the missing the large room sound, additional ambience and detail of the main room. Plus, the living room is a better sound room and the sound radiates beautifully throughout the front end of the house. All this from a couple of duplexes, black and red.
As to the blown main amp fuses, SR Elliott is sending 8 amp fuses because my big amps have a massive pair of capacitors each as opposed to multiple small caps like most modern amps. He said that the big caps draw a big instant load and the fuses have to compensate (the SR fuses are rated for typical loads at 5 amps not my big loads). He also said he heard many stories concerning the idiosyncrasies of the black duplexes and fuses although my situation is rather unique. If David Prichard finds success in mixing duplexes and I've done the same in my living room system., I can do the same in my main system although that has separate 20 amp dedicated power lines rather than share the same power line as in my living room.
Hi Dicockrum, That was a very nice (and accurate) acknowledgement concerning Frank. I agree that the outreach and response involving many participants of this thread is an overwhelming sucess. We have improved the sound of our audio systems with the excellent Black fuses and have delightfully made new friends. The sharing of information regarding numerous recordings and exposure to new/unfamiliar musicians is but one wonderful byproduct due to this terrific thread. Thanks again Frank. Merry Christmas to you all. Charles
Absolutely agree with Dave and Charles. Thanks to Frank who started this thread that let us learn about different tweaks that can be apply to our systems. Even though some of these things are system dependent and might not work for you but he still treated everyone with respect here. He is always here to answer your questions when you need him. Last but not least, who doesn't enjoy chatting with others who have the common interest as yourself? Happy holidays and happy listening to you all!
I would would also like to convey my best wishes to David Pritchard and his dear mother. David, along with Charles 1dad, were two of the foundation stones on which this thread was built.
I always found David's recommendations to be 100% accurate and because of two of these recommendations I was able to make worthwhile improvements to my system in 2016.
His first recommendation was the SR grounding block which worked wonders in my system. His second recommendation was the SR black A/C receptacle which I installed about 6 weeks ago.
Thank you so much for your wonderful post. You've made my day. Very humbling, I must say. :-)
It's been really nice to share the things that work in my system with fellow hobbyists, especially those folks who actually take the time and go through the expense of actually trying the suggestions. Its satisfying when other's get great results from these suggestions as well. This thread has turned out to be an excellent vehicle for that sharing.
Its all about getting us closer to the music we love so much.
This is such an interesting hobby where under normal circumstances its so expensive to attain significant improvements ... the kind of improvements that would usually take a major equipment upgrade, that when you find a simple tweak like a fuse for 120 bucks, people need to know about it. That's my take, anyway. The friends made along the way? ... well, that's a super bonus.
I want to wish everyone who has participated in this tread a very Merry Christmas.
I have shared this before and want to bring it up again as it is a topic that is very interesting to me. The designer of Tube Research Labs equipment taught me fuses, all fuses, degrade sound no matter the audiophile brand. He never put fuses in his highly regarded tube amps and preamps. He built his gear with high quality on/off switch circuit breakers. I now do this as a mod to my tube gear for the best possible fuse - no fuse. This seems like such an obvious design idea and I am floored more do not adopt it. I can tell you from experience the breaker worked wonderfully on two occasions when needed and the amp simply turned off.
The sound of no fuse is superior to all fuses regardless of the cost. Remember the cheap contacts and holders that secure those fuses also impact the sound. Paul of TRL always bucked conventional thinking in his designs and was a brilliant designer. This small design idea coupled with many, many others made for exceptional sounding gear.
I can accept the concept of sound quality hierarchy of no fuse-premium fuse-standard fuse infuse in that order. Its become clear to me that based on listening, the fuse seems to be a bottleneck in terms of sound quality. The upgrade fuses in my components simply and consistently improved the sound.
If I were to ever commission the building of custom components from scratch I’d go with a circuit breaker. In the here and now with my current components I’m very happy with upgrade quality fuses. It "may" be an advantage that my components require only one fuse as opposed to several/multiple fuses per component. I do believe however that this is just one variable among numerous others that affect the sound. I've heard components with fuses that sound as good or better than those that eschew them. So many factors determine the final sound quality of audio products. Audio is fascinating. Charles
True Charles, but on the one topic of fuses in amp design I would like to see more effort in their elimination. Status quo seems to rule the day in amp design with fuses. BTW it is very easy to mod most existing amps to eliminate the fuse with an on/off breaker switch.
Bill, am I correct that it must cost the manufactor more money to install a high quality on/off switch circuit breakers vs the instillation of fuses. If that's the case now much more would the high quality on/off switch circuit breakers cost a manufactor?
As a newbie, if I wanted to try a premium fuse to see if I can hear an improvement, where would be the place to start - with source components, pre-amp, or amp? Or maybe I could try removing the fuses and closing the circuit with copper temporarily to test. Would that make sense?
Not a good idea using a solid copper plug in place of a fuse ... especially if your fire insurance isn't up to date, or if you can't afford new equipment to replace burned out circuits.
@oregonpapa 1) Thanks for the welcome and advice. 2) I was only gonna try it for a few minutes. ;^) 3) Don't tell my insurance company!
Happy Holidays! I'm listening to the Harry Belafonte Christmas CD as I cook Octopus sauce for a generations old traditional Italian Christmas Eve feast. Now moving on to stuffing the shrimp.
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