I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Regarding the measurements described in the HFT paper (which Nonoise was
kind enough to link to earlier in the thread) which purport to support
the notion of fuse directionality:
1)Resistance measurements
related to directionality were provided for 16 different HFT fuses,
having current ratings ranging from 1.6 amps to 20 amps, as well as for a
few competitive fuses and standard glass and ceramic fuses (the
specific make of the "standard" fuses being unspecified). The
differences in resistance for the HFT fuses in the two directions ranged
from 0.000002 ohms to 0.000120 ohms. The differences in resistance for
the competitive fuses were a bit greater in some cases, with the worst
cases generally being the standard fuses, for which there was one
isolated case having a measured difference of 0.005200 ohms.
IMO those numbers are so miniscule as to be:
(a)Laughable.
(b)Very
possibly attributable to changes in the voltage of the battery in the
measurement meter, from measurement to measurement (each measurement
imposing a slight drain on the battery), and from minute to minute. Or
if the meter was AC powered, to the very slight differences in AC line
voltage that may occur from minute to minute, as various loads are
turned on and off at nearby locations.
(c)Very possibly
attributable to differences in contact pressure and contact area between
the meter’s probe tips and the contacts on the fuse. The paper presents
separate measurements of fuse resistance as measured in a fuseholder
(for just one direction), indicating that the direction-related
measurements were performed by touching the meter leads directly to the
contacts on the fuse.
(d)Perhaps even contributed to by
differences in the resistance of the measurer’s body, that would have
been paralleled with the resistance of the fuse if he or she had fingers
on the probe tips and/or the fuse contacts while the measurements were
being taken.
(e)If Geoff’s comments about all wires being
significantly directional are to be believed, then these differences
would be totally swamped by both the resistances and the alleged
direction-related resistance differences of the vastly longer associated
wiring. In the case of mains fuses, that would include the power
transformer and the power wiring in the component, as well as the power
cord and the AC wiring in and outside of the house.
I’ll say
also that the comments I provided on the HFT paper in the "Fuses That
Matter" thread (linked to in one of my posts earlier in this thread) do
nothing to provide confidence that these measurements were performed in a
methodologically scrupulous manner, that would rule out the kinds of
extraneous variables described in (b), (c), and (d) above.
Al, your comments are an excellent example of the Backfire Effect. The Backfire Effect is the stubborn refusal to change ones views no matter how much evidence to the contrary piles up. The Backfire Effect is, ironically perhaps, the clinging to one’s ideas and beliefs even more strongly when confronted with contradictory views and evidence against them. Let’s see, Audioquest says all wire is directional. Most high end fuses are either marked for directionality or are reported to be directional, even when the manufacturer says they aren’t. Many high end interconnects and speaker cables are marked for directionality and have been for 25 years. High end fuses have been marked for directionality for more than 10 years.
contradictory views and evidence against them.....
Many high end interconnects and speaker cables are marked for directionality and have been for 25 years. High end fuses have been marked for directionality for more than 10 years.
This is evidence of nothing other than ink on fuse covers and cable jackets....Perry Mason
mitch2 1,296 posts 10-08-2016 2:06pm contradictory views and evidence against them...
Geoffkait: "Many high end interconnects and speaker cables are marked for directionality and have been for 25 years. High end fuses have been marked for directionality for more than 10 years."
To which mitch2 replied,
"This is evidence of nothing other than ink on fuse covers and cable jackets....Perry Mason"
Easy there, Perry. I suspect you’re confusing evidence with proof. I also imagine you are dismissing the testimony of one thousand audiophiles as mere group hysteria.
Geoffkait: "I suspect you’re confusing evidence with proof."
to which Mitch replied,
"The essence of audio cable marketing 101....Mad Men"
How is marking cables or fuses for direction a marketing ploy? Share, share...
Geoffkait:"I also imagine you are dismissing the testimony of one thousand audiophiles as mere group hysteria."
to which Mitch replied,
"Don’t confuse testimony with fact."
testimony is not fact or proof. Never said it was. What I did say is that it’s evidence. Hel-looo! Next up, a tutorial on the difference between proof and evidence.
Finally, we agree. So, my question is, if "the testimony of one thousand audiophiles" is not fact or proof, then is it "mere group hysteria?"
Geoffkait:
"How is marking cables or fuses for direction a marketing ploy? Share, share..."
Actually, my comment was that "confusing evidence with proof" is "the essence of audio cable marketing 101." In the marketing of audio cables and accessories, "evidence" is sometimes mistaken for science and "testimony" for fact. Audiophiles like tweaky science stuff like green pens, magic dots, crystals, 6-degree of motion footers, quantum tunneling, cryogenic treatment of anything using nitrogen, or the poor man's version of cryo - i.e., putting CDs in the freezer, the concept of grainless boundaries, draining vibrations and line-noise to an "earth-ground,"
ultra-purity materials using as many 9's as possible without someone calling BS, anything harder, denser or stronger than something else, exotic materials such as palladium, graphene, resin, and any materials used in space shuttles, advanced military rockets or nuclear submarines, oh, and they like the idea of "transforming" the sound of their rigs by something so simple as orienting a cable or fuse in its "proper" direction. If you pile enough technical jargon in one place you can pretty much use that as copy to sell audiophiles just about anything but, Geoff, you don't need me to tell you that.
This is not quite the most fun I have had today but it is probably about time for this thread to return to its regularly scheduled programing....it was doing so well before the negative waves crashed the party again.
Why don't you knock it off with the negative waves, Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here, Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change, Oddball to Moriarty....Kelly's Heroes
"If you pile enough technical jargon in one place you can pretty much use that as copy to sell audiophiles just about anything but, Geoff, you don’t need me to tell you that.
This is not quite the most fun I have had today but it is probably about time for this thread to return to its regularly scheduled programing....it was doing so well before the negative waves crashed the party again.
Why don’t you knock it off with the negative waves, Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here, Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change, - Oddball to Moriarity...Kelly's Heros"
I have blacks in the mono amps and DAC. I have Beeswax SHD in the pre and the analog PSU. So I don't have direct comparisons but the gap'heard in the pre and PSU are superiors to the gap heard in the amps and DAC. They all replaced hifi tuning supremes. Less demonstrative, more fluidity, more musical is the way I like. These impressions are intended inmy system, my room and my Preferences. I don't pretend that will be true for everyone. The first Beeswax was already better than the black in my opinion and the SHD is one or 2 steps beyond in SQ, but it is my own feeling. Less hifi, more Music.
Who here has the Black UEF Power Cord? Now that I've replaced all my fuses with the blacks, I think that's my next step.
The Black UEF Power Cord is a great cable for it's price. It's not as good as the more expensive SR cables but it's much better than their previous entry level power cables. I actually own the Black cable and planning to replace it with the Atmosphere power cables that oregonpapa has highly recommended. If you are interested in the Black please let me know.
The SR Atmosphere level 3 PC's were a game changer for me. Prior to the change, I was using some of Dave Magnan's experimental PC's that were mighty, mighty fine. Had them in the system for years. The Magnan PC's are now residing in a friend's system. He loves them and so did I, but they are no contest for the SR's.
I haven't compared the Atmosphere's with the UEF Blacks, but my understanding is that the UEF Blacks are a real bargain and they get you some of what the Atmosphere's achieve for a LOT less money.
^^^ Haven't tried the other levels. With the 30 day return policy, perhaps you could try them out and go from there. You'd only be out the return shipping.
For my ARC/magnepan system, the uef black power cables sound incredible. my CD player and pre have the 12 gauge, and the poweramp has the 10 gauge. Im sure as you go up the line into the atmosphere line, improvements are there, but those power cords are out of my budget. I am verry happy with them. I too got them because I was so impressed with the black fuses. I know I could go back to not having them.
I just got a black PC (Thanks ronrags!). It replaced the stock cord from the wall to my Tara Labs Powerscreen. It shows great promise right off the bat. The improvements are very similar to what I heard with the black fuses. Now I just have to endure the break in process.
My CEC TL-5 CD Transport, AN Kit 1 DAC and ASL Tulip amp are plugged into the Powerscreen with old MIT PCs (my ASL TX-1 preamp is an autoformer passive). Assuming the black PC settles in and continues to sound at least as good as it does now, I plan to upgrade the MITs next.
dlcockrum: I am glad you have tried the fuses. They made a wonderful improvement in my system. The music is flowing at my house this weekend! Enjoy and expect the fuses to continue to improve during the next week.
Not to worry, fazee. When I ordered my four, Level 3 PC's, they sent one with a note saying that they had to build the other three. I got them in about 10 days from the time the first one was delivered.
Amazing product, by the way. The build quality is suburb as is the sound. They keep improving over a 200 hour period as they break in. They killed the PC's I was using before right off the bat, and the ones I was using before were no slouches at all.
Hello Frank, I just received your CDs today. 7 of them! I'll be doing a lot of listening beginning with the Montgomery Brothers later tonight, I must hear Buddy play the vibraphone. Frank thanks so much for taking the time to do this favor. Sincerely, Charles
If I have my equipment on stand by mode, are the PC's considered to be breaking in or do I need to physically turn on my equipment and let music flow from my system?
Sorry for the newb question but that's exactly what I am :(
The Montgomery Bros. was recorded from the LP. Sorry for the surface noise, especially on the first cut. That record is approaching 60 years old now. I found it in a used bin at a record store back in the 1970's. My favorite cut is "Bobbles Bangles and Beads." Buddy really rips it on the vibes on that cut.
On the Spanish Cello Music disc, my favorite cuts are from #6 on.
Please let me know what you think of the Israeli Percussion Orchestra recording. The first cut is amazing. Its one of the very best recordings I've ever heard. Its a private recording and was never released to the public. So ... only a few specially selected people have been deemed worthy enough to have it. :-) If I'm not mistaken, I believe you and David are using low powered amps ... I hope it comes across with all the dynamics that are on the disc.
fazee ...
I believe you have to have current flowing through the PC's. Patients is the key ... good things come to those who wait. :-)
Woo-Hoo ... !! The mailman (oops, I mean the postal person) just dropped off enough of Herbie's tube dampeners to do the preamp. Good sounds ahead for this evening. :-)
If I have my equipment on stand by mode, are the PC’s considered to be breaking in or do I need to physically turn on my equipment and let music flow from my system?
Fazee, in most cases the current drawn through a power cord by the component it is connected to will be very small in standby mode, and will therefore contribute little or nothing to whatever breakin effects may eventually occur in the power cord, if any. Although in the case of your HAP-Z1ES that current won’t be very much even in operate mode, especially given that you are operating from 230 volt AC. Also, as with most source components (and also most preamps) its current draw will be essentially the same in operate mode whether music is being played or not.
The power amplifier section of your AVM C9, though, operates with class D bias, which means that its current draw (and consequently the current draw of your power conditioner, if the amp is plugged into it) will be considerably greater when music is playing than when the amp is operating but not playing music. (That would also be the case if the amp was a class AB design, although to a lesser degree, but would not be the case if the amp were biased in class A. An amp biased in class A will draw essentially the same amount of current through its power cord whether music is playing or not).
How all of this correlates with the duration and effectiveness of the breakin process, however, is not possible to predict with any kind of precision IMO. But you may want to consider accelerating whatever breakin effects may occur by temporarily connecting the power cords to a refrigerator and/or to other devices that draw a large amount of current much of the time, and leaving them there for a few days.
Thanks for the very detailed post. Since I can't connect my fridge through the PC's, the best thing would be for me to just listen to and enjoy the music while the cords break in.
I may decide to leave the system on for a few days to hasten the process. Any idea if I can just leave the volume at extremely low levels so as not to start WW3 with the missus?
Thanks jmcgrogan2, that's very helpful indeed. A light bulb has been lighted up in my head. Will probably go and look for those adapters at my local electrical shops :)
+1 to John's (Jmcgrogan2's) comment. Fazee, I suspect that if you Google "IEC Adapter" you will find something comparable that would be suitable for use in your country.
If you do end up performing the breakin while the cords are in the system, though, and if the three cords you ordered are identical (or at least if all of them are of adequate gauge for use on the amp), I suppose what would make sense is as follows: Initially run all three of them in the system at whatever volume is suitable at any given time, for some number of days or weeks. When you reach a point where no further improvement is noted, or if you don't notice any improvement during that time, then switch the cords between the integrated amp and the Sony player, and repeat the process, thereby subjecting the cord that was conducting the relatively small amount of current drawn by the player to the larger amount of current drawn by the amp.
And if you are connecting the amp directly to the wall outlet, rather than through the power conditioner, then repeat the process once more, with the conditioner's power cord swapped with one of the others. That step shouldn't be necessary, though, if you are powering the amp via the conditioner.
Hi Frank, I listened to 5 of the CDs last night and it was an enjoyable session for certain. Buddy Montgomery was a treat to hear playing the vibraphone, I’ll seek out more of his recordings as a vibraphonist. He’s equally proficient with the vibraphone and piano, what a talent.
The very pleasant surprise was Zoot Sims. I’ve always liked him but your recording is exceptional mono, so palpable and such a strong breathing flesh and blood realism. Jerry Lloyd’s trumpet was excellent, he can play. All of my Zoot recordings are stereo (that were recorded well).
The Israeli Percussion Orchestra was really well recorded and very enjoyable including the female vocalist. The drums were realistic to say the least. With the full orchestra playing it seemed as though I was sitting in the live audience. Very dynamic recording particularly track 4. I used my sound level meter set on C weighted/fast. That track had a low to peak range of 55 db !!! Yikes 😊
The Almeida was good, especially so when the Cellist joined in. Emily Remler was good (I have one recording of her).
Next up are the classical guitarists. I have to play the Zoot Sims again tonight. Thanks again Frank. Charles
You are more than welcome. Its a pleasure sharing music with someone who I am confident is a true music lover.
I see a great divide in this hobby and its been evident to me for many years. There are those of us who will sacrifice a lot financially in the quest to get us closer to the music. And then there are those who consider their stereo equipment to be some kind of exotic jewelry that they can show off to their friends.
I have thousands of recordings in my collection, and I suspect that you and a few others posting here do as well. On the other hand, I've met so many folks who have systems costing in excess of 100k, with a paltry collection of, at most, 100 recordings ... all of which are of the "audiophile" variety. You know, typical would be Patricia Barber; totally drenched in artificial digital reverb. To each his own, I guess.
You and I, and others like us, can listen to a 60 year old recording of Zoot Sims and be blown away emotionally through his talent. The folks on other side of the coin, however, wouldn't be caught dead with that recording. "Eww ... there's a "tick" on the third cut of side two!" :-)
As for me, I'll take the music every time.
Glad you appreciate what I sent you. It means a lot to me.
When I burned the Zoot Sims CD for you, I also burned one for myself. I played it tonight in its entirety. I find it pretty amazing that a mono LP that is almost 60 years old can be that involving and have such great sound. Sim's big, fat, voluptuous tenor is right there in the room. A real toe tapper for sure.
By the way, I installed five of Herbie's tube dampeners on the tubes in the preamp yesterday. All I can say is WOW!
Frank, It just is another example of how two very different audio systems can yield such similar musical/-sonic results. With the exception of the Black fuses our speakers, source, electronics and cabling share no overlapping brands. What we have in common is the goal of constructing a system that emphasizes and serves the beauty and emotional power of music.
That’s all I want from my system and based on your numerous comments on your captivating listening experiences at home, you most certainly have achieved that as well. Yes a 60 year old mono recording thats full of musical beauty and communicates straight to the soul. Toes tapping and head ah bobbin, absolutely 😊. Full bodied,rich and fat tenor sax tone, oh yes Zoot and company were in the house! Charles
Anybody else here use an autoformer or transformer passive preamp? My ASL TX-1 is a big part of what what makes my system sound so good. I can't imagine going back to resistive volume control.
On that Montgomery Brothers CD I sent you ... I listened to that last night as well. What I could clearly detect was that it was recorded from two different sessions.
I discussed this album with my friend Robert, who knows more about recorded music than anyone on the planet. He even puts Michael Fremer to shame.
Robert knows my collection as if it were his own. Robert said that he thinks the album was recorded and used only by radio stations and was never released to the public. In all of our years of collecting records, this is the only copy either of us has ever seen. I've been looking since the early 70's for a cleaner copy with no luck at all. Not even on Ebay or on Amazon. I do have another Montgomery Brothers album with some of the same music, but no Buddy on vibes.
By the way, I know you like vibes. Do you have anything by Milt Jackson on the old Roost label? They were from the mono era and they sound fantastic. They were reissued as "twofers" about 30 years ago and the transfers are superb. Good BeBop played by a very young Milt Jackson. Quite different from his later recordings when he was playing with MJQ.
Frank, I am a Hugh fan and admirer of Milt Jackson and have a sizable collection of his recordings. I don't have any from the Roost label/mono era but will seek them out. My recordings of Jackson are with him not with the MJQ but with others. I believe that the MJQ format actually restricted his talents and often held him back. His efforts with Wes Montgomery, Ray Charles, John Coltrane and Ray Brown for example are all excellent. Charles
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