Hi John,
It was just an analogy, must we be that sensitive? . No harm no foul. Take care. 😊😊
Charles,
It was just an analogy, must we be that sensitive? . No harm no foul. Take care. 😊😊
Charles,
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
4,839 responses Add your response
Fuse heads, I bit the bullet last week and ordered a SR 20 Black fuse which was marketed at 50% off the regular price. I tried the SR Red fuse in my Don Sach 6SN7-based preamp earlier this year and found no discernible difference compared to the sound of my system using $10 Hifi Tuning fuse. I just fired up the system with the SR 20 fuse and can say definitively that my system sounds fantastic (with a Dennis Had Inspire Bottlehead SET amp and Spatial Audio M4 Hologram speakers, and a modified Oppo 103 CD player). I hasten to add that the system sounded fantastic last night when I turned it off and went to bed. So, I will run the fuse in and then have my pal swap the two fuse variants to see if I can tell any difference. It makes no sense that the fuse would improve the sound, but it is worth a few shekels to have fun trying it out. And obviously a lot of you "fuse heads" are devotees of the SR tweaks. I will let you know my results in a couple of weeks. Cheers, Whitestix |
Hi, whitestix ... Welcome to Crazy Town. :-) Glad to hear you're getting good results. Just for clarification, did you install a SR20 Quantum Fuse, or the Synergistic Research BLACK Quantum Fuse? The reason I ask is that there is a huge difference in price. They both have rave reviews on the Highend-electronics site. OP |
I had to share this with you guys. Put the headphones on ... its simply amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSLk_9r403g |
Papa, I got the low end fuse, the SR20, cost me $30. It has done no harm so far. Dave, I am gonna miss the RMAF this year as the coin of the realm is tight. I hope some of the guys on the forum hook up with you there. I also hope you get a chance to hear my coveted Spatial Audio speakers while you are there, they are quite amazing and reasonably priced. They are the most enjoyable speakers I have owned in my 45 years in the audio world. Cheers, Mark |
Spacial Audio speakers have certainly sounded good at past shows so thank you for the reminder to have a listen. I am going to also take time to listen to the new and expensive Focal headphones while at this years RMAF. My systems are really dialed in and so no pressure to jump from room to room. I think it will be a fun weekend. David Pritchard |
A special audio event was experienced last night. Renowned cello player Zuill Bailey and the Ying Quartet played live last night at a small wine bar to celebrate the release of their recording of the Schumann Quintet. With catered tasties, wine, and the intimate atmosphere, it was a perfect musical venue and event.. And then I had the fun to go home and play the same music I had just heard live on my headphone system. Now I experienced the same music as a private uninterrupted conversation where ideas were exchanged at the highest satisfying level. The right audio grade fuses and A/C wall outlets are a big help in achieving this type of experience. So if you have not given them a try, discard any preconceived expectations and give them a try. Charles 1 Dad - well I pulled the trigger and bought the Takkatsuki 300B tubes yesterday that were on Audiogon! I decided experiencing Aural Sushi was better than Oral Suchi as I don't have funds for both! I hope all get to enjoy wonderful music today. David Pritchard |
Hi, David ... If possible, would you stop in at the Von Gaylord room to take a listen. I'd like your assessment on the sound. Also, introduce yourself to Ray Leung the designer. He's a brilliant designer and a complete gentleman. If you find the time, please say hello to Ray for me. Hope you're having a wonderful time at the show. Frank |
Hi oregonpapa, Thank you for starting this very informative thread. Seems like this thread has gone global and you have one very happy user of the SR Black fuses out here in Singapore. I am very new to hifi and audio and ill qualified to comment on a system's sound quality but I do know that these fuses have taken my modest system to a different level. My system consists of AVM C9 integrated amplifier, Sony HDD HAP Z1-ES music server, Gauder Akustik Berlina RC3 bookshelf speakers and PliXiR BAC 3000 power conditioner. The SR components I have are; HFT level 3, Core Active Speaker Cable, Universal Interconnect Cell, Galileo Basik RCA Interconnect, one set of MiGs, 3 Black fuses and a Black UEF Duplex. I have a Black fuse in the power conditioner and 2 in the Sony HAP Z1-ES. I have about 90 hours on these fuses and the sound just keeps getting better and better. I do get startled on certain music I am listening to sometimes, forcing me to glance at my front door 30 feet to my left, thinking that someone has just knocked on it, amazing.I also notice that even though I play my music at a lower volume now, I can hear even more details than before with my volume way higher. I have also installed the SR Black UEF Duplex a couple of weeks ago and have got about 100 hours on them and again the improvement in my system's SQ is clear. Noise floor very much lowered with tighter bass and even more details emanating from my system. I have ordered 3 SR Black UEF Power Cords after my experience with the Black fuses and am eagerly awaiting delivery in a couple of weeks, I hope. With the arrival of the PC, my cabling will be virtually an all SR affair. :) Regards, Les |
Hello, Lee ... I hope all is well this morning in Singapore. Thanks for posting your results. Your experiences with the SR products mirrors that of so many others who have tried them. Each step you've taken is a new adventure. The HFT's transformed my room too. While the SR Black fuses improved each component like a component upgrade, the HFT's brought everything into focus. And that was with a lot of room treatments already in the room. Please report back with the results you get with the new power cords. You can expect the usual break-in time with the cords as well. In case you weren't aware of it, there is a thread on the SR power cords here on A'gon. Here's a link: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-research-atmosphere-power-cords Again, congratulations on the great results. OP |
Hi Les, Excellent that the SR fuses are working their magic for you. Actually, I've been meaning to track down the fuse info as employed in my Sony HAPZ1-ES, sounds like you can help in that regard. You mentioned replacing 2 in your Sony with the Black's, is that the total fuse count? And if you have it handy, can you specify what the fuse values are (or which SR fuses you purchased)? Thanks very much! |
Hi butler, Yes, it seems like there were only 2 fuses in the Sony HAPZ1-ES, unless my eyes are failing me. So you need to get 2 x Black Fuse Slow Blo 3.15A 20mm 250v I intend to get the fuses for my AVM amp once my Black Power Cords arrive and are run in. Have fun, you will start grinning from ear to ear like I did after you install those fuses. :) Alright, back to Page 29 where I stopped reading to register and post here this afternoon. Regards, Les |
I have really enjoyed the people and conversation on this thread, and decided to start one called "The Black Fuse Clubhouse" on the Misc. Audio Forum so we can post about a wider range of topics, not centered around a particular product. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-black-fuse-clubhouse Please check it out, and post away. |
Hi butler, One issue to consider is that Singapore's electricity voltage is 230V whereas the voltage for the U.S.A. is 120V, therefore I have no idea if this would affect the fuse values in the Sony in anyway? Perhaps someone more qualified can hazard a guess? In any case, you can confirm after popping the fuses out and using a magnifying glass to read the values. Regards, Les |
Fazee 10-04-2016 In the case of an AC mains fuse the voltage difference will generally make a considerable difference in the current rating of the fuse that is necessary, because a given amount of power consumption by a component will correspond to almost twice as much current being drawn if it is configured for 120 volt operation than if it is configured for 230 volt operation. |
Thanks for the input Les & Al, guess I'll need to look before I leap just to be sure.....will need to purchase a BIG magnifying glass cause my near vision sucks but what the heck, also have an EAR preamp that I will likely re-fuse too so might as well bite the bullet. Intrigued to see if these fuses actually provide all the positives listed here. |
almarg, thank you for the very informative post, very helpful for someone like me who has limited knowledge of AC/DC, current, amps, ohms, voltages etc. I remember being sceptical when first introduced to the Black fuse at the local SR dealer; Sound Decisions, when I went down to purchase some HFTs and MiGs. Nevertheless I asked Mr Google for help and he directed me to Audiogon and oregonpapa and enjoyed reading through this thread. After the many favourable reviews I decided to take the plunge and gave Sammy a call. The results for me were immediate and I was blown away. I have more than 100 hours on the fuses now and my system keeps sounding better. I told my buddy about it and he scoffed at the idea that a couple of fuses can make any difference in sound quality. Guess there will always be unbelievers amongst us. |
Butler, I tried the Blacks in my Sony HAPZ1 ES. I found that replacing one of the fuses made a noticeable improvement in sound, whereas the other made no discernible difference. I wonder if one fuse serves non audio devices ( front panel, transport etc). I reported my observations earlier in this thread. You might want to repeat my experiment. Could save you $120. |
Hey thanks Brownsfan, that is very interesting and good info to have. Do you suggest purchasing just the 1 fuse and trying it in both locations to see which is which or would you be able to ID the location of the one I would need? I guess with the return policy it wouldn't matter much at any rate, if one wanted to experiment. |
Butler, this is my post from 3-19-16 below. The fuse in the "HDD live" slot is the one that made a difference. I had 2 fuses of the right value in other equipment, so I tried one at a time and then both. Again, adding the black fuse to the mains live slot pretty much made no difference. So I just ordered one for that spot and put the 2 I already had back in the other equipment. "Knghifi, looking down on the HAPZ1 with the front closest to me, the fuses were installed with the S to the left and the R to the right. Again, I found the directionality to be rather obvious. The fuse in the front is labeled HDD live. The one towards the back is labeled Mains Live. Look off to the left and towards the back for the label. I asked Dan Wright a number of questions, including "which fuse serves the DAC." He didn't answer that particular question. It may be that the mains fuse is serving mostly uses such as the display, which would explain that fuse having little or no impact of the quality of sound. " |
Butler, One last thought. My HAPZ1 is a ModWright version, with a second isolated tube rectifier that provides DC to the analogue section. This being the case, your results might very well be different than mine. It might be safest to start with 2 fuses and send one back if you don't hear a difference. Since we don't really know exactly what these fuses service, it is hard to say if a stock HAPZ1 will give the same results as my ModWright version. |
Butler, The ModWright work was absolutely worth it. I bought the HAPZ1 and used it long enough to get it burned in well before I sent it off. I made some pretty detailed notes on some music that was well known to me, so I did have a good point of reference for the stock vs. Modded versions. The current listing is $2995 for the mod. Dan occasionally runs specials where he discounts modifications at times when business is slow. Discounts are deep enough to be worth waiting for. If you decide to do this, shoot me an email and I can give you my thoughts on upgrade options, tubes, power cords etc. |
Well, Brownsfan, that is very interesting. The HAPZ1 already performs at a decent level, I’ve found it equal to a Berkeley DAC/Sim Moon transport combo in my system, which kind of shocked me. If it can be made to improve upon that performance level to a good degree, then that is definitely something that I will consider. Appreciate your input and kind offer to provide further insights if I choose to go that away. May take you up on the offer in the near future…... |
I spoke with Warren Gehl at ARC this morning and the conversation eventually got around to the directional property of fuses and why they sound their best in one direction and defused (no pun intended) in the opposite direction. Warren said that its a metallurgy situation and not an electrical one. According to Warren, when metal is extruded (drawn) to make wire it affects the direction of the grain in the metal. When the fuse is orientated in the direction of the grain, the sound will be the best. When the fuse is in the opposite direction, it will sound as though the system is out of phase. That's certainly been the experience of most of us posting here. Its fairly dramatic in my system for sure. I also asked him about the rotational position of the fuse, and he said that it has nothing to do with the wire. He said that each fuse has a position where the contact point of the end caps is best. Find that best position and the sound will be at its best. OP |
According to Warren, when metal is extruded (drawn) to make wire it affects the direction of the grain in the metal. When the fuse is orientated in the direction of the grain, the sound will be the best. When the fuse is in the opposite direction, it will sound as though the system is out of phase.Hi Frank, If you have an opportunity to speak with Warren on this question again, you might ask him why any such effect is not completely swamped by the randomly oriented grain directions of the vastly longer lengths of wire that are in series with the fuse, that are conducting exactly the same current. Especially in the case of AC mains fuses, where the AC wiring in the component and in the primary winding of its power transformer, and the wiring in the component’s power cord, are all conducting that same current. Not to mention the wiring inside and outside of the house, which are also conducting that current in addition to other currents. I also asked him about the rotational position of the fuse, and he said that it has nothing to do with the wire. He said that each fuse has a position where the contact point of the end caps is best. Find that best position and the sound will be at its best.Agreed. See Atmasphere’s comments that I quoted on 8-3-2016, on page 49 of this thread, in which he indicated that he has found this effect to be both measurable and audible. Regards, -- Al |
Thank you Al. I'll address your questions with Warren the next time we speak. As you know (hee, hee), I'm not technically inclined at all. EC's just look at me an shake their heads with disdain. Pity, really. But, I was thinking about your comments above and I was wondering if the wiring leading into the fuse from outside of the house and through the wall outlet, would really have an effect on anything entering and coming out of the fuse and subsequently into the power supply. Also, is it possible that a manufacturer such as ARC could/would determine through R&D the directionallity of the wire they use internally in the equipment? In other words, would the proper direction of all of the internal wiring inside of a preamp or an amp improve the sound of the finished product? Just some random thoughts ... Hope this makes sense. Thanks ... |
Butler, The stock HAPZ1 is indeed very good. The stock HAPZ1 was on a par with my ModWright Sony 5400 ES player, which I found very surprising. The ModWright upgrades are a no-brainer if you want a one box plug and play music server with excellent performance. The big question is going to be, at 5K, what else is out there? For me, I really like having my entire library at my fingertips. No searching for CD XXYY that I didn't put back in its proper place. I've never had a regret about buying the HAPZ1 and doing the upgrade. |
Hey Brownsfan, never thought I would so completely ignore my dac/transport, but having my own personal jukebox with 7,000 tunes (so far) at instant disposal and great sound is addictive........random play is my favorite way to listen to all that music these days. Will keep an eye on the MW site for special promotions, thanks again for all your input. |
Oregonpapa wrote, "Also, is it possible that a manufacturer such as ARC could/would determine through R&D the directionallity of the wire they use internally in the equipment? In other words, would the proper direction of all of the internal wiring inside of a preamp or an amp improve the sound of the finished product?" Bingo! One can’t help wondering if ARC installs their fuses in the correct direction or uses aftermarket fuses. Obviously if the wire in fuses is directional ALL metal wire is directional. Therefore, all wire in transformers, in speakers and electronics, including capacitors, resistors, and internal wiring, is directional. Everyone and his brother has known this for at least 25 years. Hel-loo! I would also suggest the issue with the end fuse caps is simply a distraction from the real issue. LOL There are many issues for audiophiles related to fuses, including RFI/EMI and vibration. BTW the correct orientation of the wire, any wire, can be determined by listening to the first bit off the spool then marking the entire spool. It’s not rocket science. You reported, "Warren said that its a metallurgy situation and not an electrical one." I would phrase it a little differently. Because it’s a metallurgical situation it’s actually an electrical one. The electricity and the electromagnetic field (audio signal) prefer to travel down wire that is oriented in the correct direction. It measurable and audible. "No matter how much you have in the end, you would have had even more if you had started out with more." - old audiophile axiom cheers |
^^^^ geo ... Thanks for the input. I know ARC does not use after market fuses in their products. Its my understanding however, that the fuses they do use are oriented in the proper direction by Warren before the product is shipped to the customer. Your comment: " The electricity and the electromagnetic field (audio signal) prefer to travel down wire that is oriented in the correct direction. It measurable and audible." Okay, so does that mean that the "proper" direction of a fuse can be measured? OP |
oregonpapa OP 1,192 posts 10-07-2016 2:11pm ^^^^ "geo ... Thanks for the input. I know ARC does not use after market fuses in their products. Its my understanding however, that the fuses they do use are oriented in the proper direction by Warren before the product is shipped to the customer. Your comment: " The electricity and the electromagnetic field (audio signal) prefer to travel down wire that is oriented in the correct direction. It measurable and audible." Okay, so does that mean that the "proper" direction of a fuse can be measured?" We’ve covered all that in earlier chapters. But seriously, we’ve discussed the HiFi Tuning data sheets and their published measurements of fuses on the fuse threads here this year ad infinitum. Fuses in proper direction, fuses in wrong direction; fuses with cryo, fuses without cryo; various HiFi Tuning fuses, various other brands of fuses. Fuses in DC circuits, fuses in AC circuits. Hel-looo! Geoff Kait machina dynamica advanced audio conceits |
Okay, so does that mean that the "proper" direction of a fuse can be measured?Based on the comment and findings provided by Atmasphere that I quoted on 8-3-2016 on page 49 of this thread, and consistent with the second of the two comments by Warren of ARC that I quoted in my previous post (dated yesterday), in most (but not all) cases I would expect that if a fuse is tried in a given component in both directions the direction in which the least voltage exists between the two terminals of the holder would be preferable, if a difference in voltage does in fact exist in a particular case. However, implicit in Atmasphere’s findings is a strong possibility that that direction may not turn out to be the same if the two insertions are repeated and re-compared. Regarding the measurements that have been published by HiFi Tuning, I provided detailed comments earlier in this and other threads. The bottom line being that they provide no information that would be useful in predicting directionality, or that is even supportive of its existence when looked at quantitatively. IMO. Regards, -- Al |
Almarg wrote, "Regarding the measurements that have been published by HiFi Tuning, I provided detailed comments earlier in this and other threads. The bottom line being that they provide no information that would be useful in predicting directionality, or that is even supportive of its existence when looked at quantitatively." Al, actually that's not true. Not even close. Let me direct your attention to the conclusions provided on the HiFi Tuning Data sheets. HiFi Tuning fuse data sheets - Interpretation of results (excerpt), taken from the data sheets 1. There were measurable differences in fuse direction for all fuses measured, including HiFi Tuning, Isoclean and non audiophile off the shelf fuses. 2. Measured differences were in the range of 5%. 3. Cryogenically treated fuses gave the best results. 4. For DC applications use solder type fuse or cryo’d HiFi Tuning fuse. 5. Differences were measurable and audible. Fuses sounded better in one direction than the other. 6. Measured differences in fuses don’t explain the sonic differences (which were greater than what the measured differences would suggest). (My editorial comment) 7. Fuses with smaller dimensions gave better results than larger fuses of the same value. 8. High end fuses gave better results than ordinary off the shelf fuses. Cheers, geoff kait machina dynamica |
