I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Although I have quite a few recordings of the MJQ, I agree that his time with MJQ wasn't Jackson's best efforts. Too commercial for my tastes. I'll get the Roost recordings together and see how they sound burned onto CD. :=)
My favorite vibes player is Cal Tjader. I actually saw him live at a club in Hollywood (Zardie's) when I was a senior in High School. That was way back into the last century. *lol*
To my ear, comparing Milt Jackson when he was with the MJQ to Cal Tjader, is like comparing
Wynton Marsalis to Clifford Brown. No contest.
I made a mistake. The Milt Jackson recordings I alluded to are on the Savoy label. Title is "Second Nature - The Savoy Sessions." Do you have it in your collection?
Thanks for the useful suggestions but I doubt I will be able to do any swapping out of the cords due to their different lengths. I ordered identical 10 gauge cords with slightly differing lengths, from 5ft, 6ft and 7ft due to the positioning of my components. The Sony and AVM cords go direct to the Power Conditioner.
One alternative would be for me to physically swap the location of the Amp and Sony player, that might work :) That would be a good way to spend an afternoon.
Not sure if I am allowed to post a YouTube video here but this is how my components are placed. Apologies if the music is offensive to some of you.
Frank, I don't have the Savoy titles of Jackson. I do have Miles Davis "Bags Groove" a 1954 Prestige mono recording that features Milt Jackson (and Thelonious Monk ☺) and sounds wonderful. If Savoy matches this in quality oh boy. Charles
I was recording the Milt Jackson Savoy recordings this morning to use in my car. Its a two record set that features Lucky Thompson on tenor sax. All mono ... and near mint condition.
Hope I can fit both records onto one CD.
The recording engineer was none other than Rudy Van Gelder ... or as he was known on classical recordings that he engineered ... "Doctor" Van Gelder. That's something that always struck me as funny. Anyway, the sound is really good, just like the "Bags Groove" album you mentioned. I have that album too.
Frank, I’m looking forward to hearing these recordings for sure. Lucky Thompson? Nice! He can really play the tenor saxophone. I figured that you likely had "Bags Groove", you have such good taste. Charles
Has anyone on this long thread heard a fuse that is 80% as good as the Black for far less money? Like you buy three fuses, but the Black are just too much money for me.
Bill, It's difficult to assign a numerical value sometimes but definitely the SR Red fuse is very good. If budget is a concern for anyone I'd enthusiastically recommend their base SR 20 Quantum. These were a clear improvement over the stock fuses in my components.
Bill by the way I read your comments on another thread on the Duelund wires and I'm not surprised by your impressions. I use their CAST copper foil capacitors and know the quality this company is capable of. Charles
I see that and I wonder if they are close to the Black performance. Close is hard to put into words and quantify numerically, but it is at least a rough idea.
Bill, I'd describe it this way based solely on the positive results in my system. Red ="very"good, Black=superb. SR Red fuses at 1/2 price =superb value 😊. Bill I believe that you've experienced premium fuses in the past with your various projects and appreciate their contributions. Charles
In my system, the RED fuses were a game changer over the stock fuses. But the Black fuses killed the Reds. No contest, really. But, if the budget is something that has to be considered, the Red fuses would be an excellent choice. The SR Red fuse that initially started this thread replaced the HiFi Tuning fuse in the amp. Night and day.
Thanks Charles and oregonpapa. That helps. Seems the Black is much better. Perhaps I will buy one at a time over time. In other words, perhaps one Black in my system will get me to the same place as two Reds initially.
Hi Bill, I'd follow the strategy of one Black fuse at a time. Again the SR Red fuse is quite good but the Black is a clear level above. You may as well aim high. Charles
Bill, Which component are you starting with? In my system the greater perceived impact was Line Stage and DAC (equal) then the power amplifier. Of course there's hierarchy variations depending on system/components. Wow! What a comeback win for the Detroit Lions 😀 Charles
It have about a hundred fifty hours on my black fuse on my dac . I think it has stabilized now. But man, it changed continually. And then I couldn't believe what I was hearing. So I go to my hearing doctor. He says put a little lime in your coconut and listen to what I have to tell you. Your hearing does not lie. You really are hearing all that gloriously sounding music just the way you described it. The unbelievable dynamic contrasts, yes. The full harmonic structure of all those musically instruments, yes. Telling a tight group of musicians from a sloppy group, yes. Hearing a bartender inviting you to drink along with the other listeners in your room, yes.hearing a popcorn kernel roll along the floor, yes. Music that is not confined to a sound system, yes. Then my doctor said go home and put some lime in your coconut and drink it all together. Enjoy yourself and don'the worry about how your system use to sound, just bath in the musical glory you have now. So like Tony the tiger says 'It sounds grrrrrrreeeaatt!'. In other words better than it ever has. I still cannot believe it is just a fuse. Pinch me.
In my system and I have tried them all . The Hifi tuning Supreme in the Black case brought out the best resolution. The SR are still very good more warm balance . The Hifi tuning Supreme slightly warm but give it up to 100 hours to fully settle in if possible just let play. The difference is in low level resolution and at lower volumes that is where the extra information shines. I have spent 100s of hours comparing . The Audio Magic very good more warm use honey or something similar and want over $150 each way yo much money. parts connecxion Canada has had fuse sales up to 20% off, and discontinued older models worth seeking out. Over 50% off.. nothing is set in stone remember the standard fuse resistance index is almost 8x that of a Silver conductor. SN research do a lot of BS also and I owned everything like the new tungsten Element cables .all these active spaghetti wires totally not necessary and to offer a upgrade wall wart plug for each cable . $400 each .i had 16 cables. pure marketing .PT Barnum said it best ,there is a Sucker born every day .I owned a Audio store for 10 years inEurope and have se it all in ways to part with your hard earned moneys. tube USA sell Synergistic up to 25% off with purchase they get 55% off.Sound cable engineering is most important .0-or single crystal Copper,or Silver actually does bring sonic benifit and quietness across the board vs standard 4-9s Copper.go to Neotech look at grain structuring .only 3 companies make and a high % companies use this Shunyata, Analysis plus, Acoustic zen,Zenwave and many others.high quality connectors also count ,thinner is better less RF possibilities. I had to clear the air ,just look for solid engineering not so Called breakthroughs - bells and whistles !!
Good to read your impressions of the various fuses. Too bad you used the post to editorialize about cables. My experience with SR products over many years is completely contrary to yours. As there is no Virtual System posted for you, I have no idea as to your frame of reference.
It is comical to read your adamantly supportive comments on boutique fuses followed by complete ridicule of high-technology cable products. I suppose that the latest Graphene products from SR and Cerious Technologies are fool’s fodder also?
In order to avoid a protracted series of flaming posts, I must go ahead and concede to being easily deluded with PT Barnum-like power of suggestion, yet I feel confident in defending my God-given skills related to hearing and, just as importantly, discerning great sound.
Hello Dave, I believe that the final sentence of your post is the essence of wisdom and truth. No matter how strongly one may attest to the quality or attributes of an audio product there are going to be contrary rebuttals, it’s just life. Doesn’t matter if the topic concerns fuses, footers, equipment/component stands, tubes, wire etc. There will never be unanimous concensesus on anything, ever!
The beauty of it all is we as individuals get to make these choices based on our specific desires and standards. This is all that matters as you astutely point out. One man’s excellent is another man’s terrible. Trust your own ears and judgement. Charles
I just replaced the 2 main fuses on my PS Audio BHK 250 amp with the black fuses. Just like what you described in this post, it is less musical but it sounds more live and being there. I can't wait until they are completely burn in. This is like a night and day experience compare to the stock fuses. This is a pricey upgrade but blew me away already.
Not sure if you or other black fuse users here have any experience on upgrading the rail fuses. Is the impact/difference as big as upgrading the main fuse? I still have 4 stock rail fuses in my amp. Or should I just buy the Herbie's rings? Your recommendation is greatly appreciated!
I have two rail fuses in my CD player. The SR Black fuses are a game changer there too.
With every fuse change, I've use Caig Gold contact enhancer as well. You might want to try the Caig products on all of your contact points including your tube pins (if any), RCA plugs, power cord spades, and even your speaker cable terminations. Just use a Q-tip for an applicator.
In the meantime, and now that the entire system is using the SR Black fuses, I'm concentrating on, and totally enjoying the effects ... especially with the five new Herbies tube dampeners in the pre-amp.
All of these tweaks have a cumulative effect, and with every new tweak, more of the music and performance is allowed through the system. It allows the listener to absorb more of the intent of the players and the composers, therefore becoming more emotionally involved with the music.
Would someone come over and rescue me? I can't stop listening.
I wish to comment on the statements about directionality in the article Dave linked to. Consistent with comments that have been made in this thread it states:
There was talk on the web about whether the Black Fuse was directional so I called up Eliott Nommensen, one of the chief operatives in product development at Synergistic Research and asked him about this. He said yes, it’s true but there is no way of knowing which way to is the proper orientation, other than listening, because you can’t really see the circuit inside to figure out which way the fuse holder is wired. He suggested trying both directions when first using the fuse. One way will give you more detail than the other. That’s the way you want to leave it and during the burn-in process the sound will fill in and smooth out. Oh, great. I had already burned them in, so there was a 50/50 chance I had done it right. Late at night, I did the critical listening comparison and sure enough, there is a difference. The correct way has better focus and soundstaging, the other way is more diffuse and the soundstage is vaguer.
First let me say as an experienced designer of advanced electronics (not for audio) I have never had any doubts that a fuse can make a difference in many applications. Although I have expressed some puzzlement in this and other fuse-related threads here about how the benefits of upgrading to a specific fuse could occur with the high degree of consistency that has been reported, among components that are completely different in design, that perform completely different functions, that are used in very different systems, and that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics. Which is not to say that I doubt the accuracy of most of the reported perceptions, many of which were provided by members for whose credibility I have particularly great respect.
But I do have a great deal of skepticism regarding claims of directionality in fuses, which IMO is fundamentally irreconcilable with any reasonable understanding of how electronic circuits work. Which is not to say, of course, that an understanding of how electronic circuits work can explain or predict everything about what we hear or don’t hear from our systems. It certainly can’t. But it can often help to provide a perspective on what does or does not have a reasonable possibility of being audibly significant, as illustrated in the last of the comments quoted below. And again, none of this is to say that I doubt the accuracy of most of the reported perceptions, it just means that in cases where those perceptions are accurate I believe that the cause was something else.
And in that regard it would seem I’m in what I would consider to be pretty good company. Among the participants in the various fuse-related threads that have appeared at this forum there have been at least four different experienced designers of well-regarded audio electronics. Following are some of the comments they have posted in these threads.
Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere:
… Fuses are inherently incapable of having directionality in any way whatsoever.
… I joined this thread recently with some results on testing. Those results are that the directionality appears out of coincidence and that actually greater improvement can be had by rotating the fuse in the holder for best contact…. Reversal is improving the contact area because fuse and holder are not dimensionally perfect and the fuse might sit better in the holder in one direction. By rotating the fuse in the holder without reversing it gets the same effect only more profoundly.
Peter Noerbaek of PBN Audio:
How can you be sure that it was the fuse "direction" that made the change in your systems sound, in order to change the fuse you will have to shut down the system then power it back up again then wait for it to return to a fully equalized stage again then make judgement. This powering down / up, the resetting of connectors including the ones on the fuse holder itself will have MUCH larger effect on sound than in which direction the fuse is installed and is probably the real reason that there is some if any difference in sound.
Also in order for the experiment to have any validity at all you would have to be able to recreate the same situation , over and over and over again. i.e. you should be able to hear that if someone had changed the direction of the fuse without your knowledge - I’d state that this would be impossible.
George Stancheff, designer of the Lightspeed Attenuator among other things:
It’s all VOODOO.
Roger Modjeski of Music Reference and RAM Tube Works:
Has anyone considered what portion of the total resistance the fuse contributes to the whole of the circuit in which it is inserted?
From the Tuning Fuse data sheet their 2 amp slow blow 5x20 fuse has a resistance of 24.077 milliohms in one direction and 24.115 in the other direction and 26.257 in the holder. If a butterfly flew by while the measurements were taking place we might see a bigger difference than the 0.038 milliohm difference in direction. Of course it might depend on which direction the butterfly was flying. But never mind, the direction measurements were made with DC and we are using these fuses in AC circuits. Perhaps if the butterfly flies clockwise vs counterclockwise there will be a difference.
Sorry I just had to put that in to keep up with all the humor that has been presented here.
Thank you once again for the tip. Just order it from Amazon, will definitely try it on the tube pins. How many Herbies rings are you using for each tube on your preamp and what's the best position?
Glad you are enjoying your music. To me it is just sound if you can't hear the emotions of the things that you are listening to. If you can become emotionally involved, that's called music!
I need someone to rescue me too. My coworker said I have this serious audiophile sickness:)
I'm using only one Herbie's dampener per tube. They are at the level recommended as the "default position" by Herbie's directions, and that would be about 1/3 of the way down from the top of the tube.
On the Caig Gold contact enhancement: You may notice a little brightness in the system after the application of the Pro Gold. Not to worry, it settles in rather quickly and the brightness is replaced by improved clarity.
Al ...
Thanks for the post regarding the directional properties, or lack thereof in the fuses.
I finally replaced the last SR Red fuse for the Black fuse. I took a fully broken-in SR Black fuse from the CD Player and put it into the phono amp then put the new SR Black fuse into the CD player to break in.
The sound coming from the phono amp was diffused as though the system was out of phase. The sound stage was wider, but nothing sounded quite right. I reversed the fuse and everything just locked right into place. The sound stage narrowed somewhat, but was much more focused with the fuse direction swap.
Don't ask me why or how, I just know that it does. Clearly audible to my ears .... and ditto for my friend Robert. Robert hears like a bat. :-)
By the way, Al ... Robert brought over a few of his "special" records for the listening session last night. These would be considered to be equal to some of Tom Port's "Hot Stampers." The AT ART-9 continues to amaze. What a cartridge!
Oregonpapa 10-28-2016 The AT ART-9 continues to amaze. What a cartridge!
Yes indeed! And even more so considering that the price (ca. $1K) is a bargain compared to most competitive LOMCs.
It was gratifying to me, BTW, to see in some other threads a while back that the ART-9 has received similarly effusive praise from a member (Dodgealum) who like me uses Daedalus speakers and a Herron VTPH-2 phono stage.
Thanks for your comments, Frank & Dave. Best regards, -- Al
Dave, Thanks for sharing that review although I have to say that it affirms what many posters on this thread had discovered for themselves . This review will give a wider audience for music lovers seeking an effective audio product to improve their listening experiences. His finding the source components more demonstrative of the Black fuse than the power amplifier matches my outcome. No doubt that this is very likely brand and/or component dependent.
I did not use the Synergistic Research AC duplex. Mine are the Avatar Audio Afterburner 8 but they certainly were quite an upgrade over the stock unit. I agree with the reviewer in that these types of products are exceptionally high value and cost effective choices. Charles
I posted the review with the hopes of providing information primarily to prospective buyers as you say, but also to those that already bought the Black fuses but may have some curiosity remaining.
I have used the pre-SE Teslaplex receptacles for years. One was actually zapped by Ted on SR’s Tesla coil while I watched during a visit to their factory back in 2010/2011. Very impressive to actually see this.
The Powercell 10 UEF/FEQ I recently purchased from a friend included the "SE" version of the ’red’ receptacle and I recently replaced one of the older non-SE receptacles with that "SE", mounted in an Oyaide WPC-Z billet aluminum housing with CF plate running to one of my side-by-side yet independently-wired-and-breakered 30 amp lines, leaving the well-broken in non-SE red receptacle on the sister 30 amp line for use in the interim and for later comparisons.
After 10 days of burning in the new "SE" receptacle using an extension cord to the fridge in the garage, I moved the Powercell’s power cord over to new SE receptacle. Not a night-and-day difference like many of SR’s products, but a nice improvement in refinement of the upper-mids/treble. I imagine that the Black UEF receptacle may yield the same level of improvement (or more) over the red SE receptacle but don’t know without comparison.
I have used the PorterPort (very good, a steal for the price, and still available from Albert Porter here on Audiogon), a couple of early Oyaide versions, and Hubbell non-nickel hospital-grade receptacles in addition to the SRs. The PorterPort is a fine sounding receptacle, very neutral sounding (not to imply lean or threadbare, but balanced sounding and true-to-the-music), while the SR Teslaplex receptacles are more dynamic and forward sounding with more ambience and space (the SR sound). I didn’t cotton to the early Oyaide receptacles that I tried. Can’t speak to their newer offerings.
I imagine that there are many fine-sounding receptacles out there today, including the Avatar Audio model that you use. I think that the metal type used for the prongs, the backing plate, and the ground strap (both for the sublayer and for the plating), as well as the type of material used for the housing play the major role in differences in sound between them.
There is one other thing I will share regarding my limited experience with receptacles: Different receptacles do indeed impart a different sound in my system and I feel that it is advisable to select the one you prefer early on, as it may alter later decisions on tuning choices, i.e. power cords (and the metal composition of plugs/IECs) and even ICs and speaker cables. Just my opinion as is everything in audio. YMMV.
Kind of funny to hear folks arguing against fuse directionality in view of the audibility of fuse direction. But not only fuse direction but also interconnect direction. And I'm referring to unshielded interconnects, you know, to eliminate the same tired argument that the directionality of cables is ONLY due to the shielding.
Hello Dave, Thanks for sharing your insight and observations based on various products in your system. What has struck me is that these various system tweaks/accessories have a very prominent accumulative positive effect. In my personal case, premium fuses and AC wall outlets, component stands for vibration management (Star Sound), upgrading capacitors (Duelund and Jupiter) and component grounding (via the Tripoint Troy) all= superior musical sound quality . I’m sure there’s is some good fortune/luck factor involved but the end result has been immense satisfaction and frequent (and long) listening sessions. Tube selection/rolling has been fun and certainly rewarding.
Once you have determined that you’re very happy with your components and speakers for the long term, these audio accessories/tweaks help extract their full sonic potential. Charles
"Once you have determined that you’re very happy with your components and speakers for the long term, these audio accessories/tweaks help extract their full sonic potential."
Exactly Charles. Understanding this in its entirety is fundamental to good purchasing decisions, regardless of where one is along the journey.
Charles1dad 10-28-2016
His [the reviewer's] finding the source components more demonstrative of the Black fuse
than the power amplifier matches my outcome. No doubt that this is very
likely brand and/or component dependent.
I suspect a relevant factor is that both you and the reviewer use amps that are biased in class A, since both amps are SETs, and therefore the amount of current drawn through their mains fuses remains essentially constant and independent of the dynamics of the music. It might be a different story with amps that are biased in class AB most or all of the time, and especially in the case of class D amps, where the AC current draw fluctuates dramatically with the dynamics of the music. Which would result in rapid fluctuations in the resistance and perhaps other parameters of the mains fuse.
Also, the generally much higher current ratings of fuses that are used in power amps and integrated amps, relative to those used in upstream components, and perhaps differences in designer preferences with respect to how much margin is provided between fuse ratings and actual current draws, could conceivably be factors that are involved. I note that both the reviewer's amp and yours are made by Coincident.
As you said, "no doubt that this is very
likely brand and/or component dependent."
Hello Al, As with Dave I always appreciate your insightful and well reasoned contributions. Funny thing is that my Coincident Line Stage and each mono block SET use a 3 amp slo blo fuse. My Line Stage is one of the very early models of the first year (2009). The current ones use a 1 amp slo blo fuse. I'd describe the mono blocks as having "noticeable" improvement but in the subtle range . The DAC and Line Stage reveal considerable improvement that's immediately recognizable.
Al, although you aren't a user of the upgrade fuse products as many on this thread obviously are I greatly appreciate your intelligence and very mature decorum. You effectively demonstrate that forum contributors can disagree and express opposing opinion/perspective without gratuitous insults and childish put down summation. No doubt that others recognize your consistent mature manner. Charles
Dave & Charles, the nice words are much appreciated. Thanks!
As you alluded to, Charles, in audio as in most fields of endeavor there are many things about which reasonable people may disagree, but it's always possible (and preferable) to disagree agreeably.
Anyone use the Synergistic Quantum Power Strip? The black PC from the wall to my Tara Labs Powerscreen has finally broken in, and I’m loving the results. Looking for my next fix of Synergistic goodness, and I’m wondering if the QPS would be an upgrade from the Powerscreen?
This or even a Powercell 4 would be the better solution all the way around (excepting price) for getting much, much more of the SR sound you say you like throughout your system:
Charles, forgot to tell you this fuse is for my highly modified Cary Rocket 88r. I use it when I want some tubes in my system. The Rocket 88 in triode mode with NOS Mullard tubes and my mods sounds fantastic with the Crescendos.
My my main amp for the last year is an all in one Lyngdorf 2170 int amp with dac and room correction. Very special unit that makes your speakers sound as the designer intended by removing the room! Cannot upgrade the fuse in this unit as it uses a PCB mounted mini fuse. Once in a while I throw in the Cary for fun and a different sound. I need a tube amp I can modify and play with over time.:)
Check out the Lyngdorf as it gets little attention, but based on my experience is a top contender. I like it better than my Dude, various amps, and Luxman DA06 separates. No kidding. That also surprised me. This amp is the direction of audio in the future. I can’t mod this one:( . Way beyond my skills.
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