Synergistic Red Fuse ...

Anyone have any luck on Magnepans?

Marklareen:

I hope you will audition the Synergistic Research Black fuses in the Magnepans. I think it will be an interesting $6.80 experiment ( return USPS Priority Insured Postage) to hear if any effect in the tweeter protection circuit.

I think there is a good chance it will improve  the soundstage. When putting the Black in my SACD player, even the fuse going to the laser assembly made a sonic difference.

David Pritchard

Markalarsen, I have had nothing BUT luck with all of the fuse brands I have installed in 3.6R's.  SR Blacks yet to come........

David,

For an educational trip on the topic of fuses for the benefit of forumers, like what David said, if you are coming from a stock fuse, you probably have still a long way before getting too concerned on whether the black or red fuse is better. 

All stock fuses are a big bottle neck, any of the exotic fuses will make a worthwhile improvement. I would recommend ALL fuses be changed out to any of the aftermarket flavours.

The question is which fuse should i get? I personally feel that the price point of the Black fuses is way too high a premium for those changing out stock fuses. Untill you can appreciate what a better exotic fuse does. Testing a Black fuse would and will in some circumstances, lead to this thread  evolving into a pissing of opinions about the  "black fuse", what it did or did not do.

All whom have tried aftermarket fuses, like Oreogonpapa said is almost risk free applies  to those based in the US only. It costs just a few bucks shipping, you really have nothing to lose if you are comfortable with the pricing and investment.

This thread evolved form those who have started with exotic fuses or like SR20, Reds and now the blacks. Overtime , as ones system improves and evolves, the neutrality of the black fuse would likely be more appreciated and suitable than the more coloured offerings of the red fuse and the other exotic fuses and may well work better than the black in their systems.

The black fuse is obviously priced and targetted and the more evolved and heavily invested systems where one will pay even 10 times to gain that sonic direction in line with the owners preference, hence the money back guaranrtee or free trial.

It is hard to state that one systems sounds real, so much like live and the instruments jumping into the room etc etc etc....

Here is my perspective of how some other fuses may be worth considering in relation to what may best suit your system.

I have in total invested in close to 20 furutech fuses, having tried gold plated, silver, platinum ones. This was before even the SR20 being released. 

For my preference, i still do think the SR20 or the furutech (especially if one need tge added rhodium plate flavour). Sr20 are more neutral, hifi-tuning more warm and lush, furutech having a rhodium powerfulflavour (just like all the rhodium plugs out there loved by many).
THE SR20 are more uncoloured more dynamic with a tight bottom, it is not a romantic or give pastel shades to the sound. Neutral mean no warmth or sexiness comfort given to the vocals. The very reason why i do like SR teslaplex, which i use together with just 1 gtx rhodium. Retired all oyaide variants to get a more neutral sonic platform and steer to unplated copper plugs now.

This is what i like or dont like abput the Black fuse, It is deviod of any colouration. Does it sound more beautiful, No. It strength is an uncoloured base like with no MSG added.Nothing really that pops in any frequency range or beautifying things. Its like drinking plain distilled water, one may well prefer a fresh jiuce or a coke on a hot day. I would possibly like other ore coloured fuse in my system in the earlier days.

Geoffkiat, contact treaments like the E-SST or furutech makes a bigger difference in my experience, but sound goes in one direction too much  that i wont try it on the fuses but only in specific locations and certainly not on every contact point, whether on fuses, signal or powerplugs. They all do color and shift the sound in a particular direction. The black fuse reminds me what and how crystals impact the sound, making for a leaner more neutral prsentation,, cooler in tonality and devoid of any warmth.

Justtubes2,, how about audio magic beeswax fuse vs synergistic research sr-black fuse? , try the beeswax,  all that have talked to me say the beeswax is richer,  organic,  than the sr-black's,  and retain's  top transparency. 

Also Justtubes2,  are you saying that the sr-black's have a lean bass compared to other exotic fuses for audio? 

"Justtubes2,, how about audio magic beeswax fuse vs synergistic research sr-black fuse? , try the beeswax, all that have talked to me say the beeswax is richer, organic, than the sr-black’s, and retain’s top transparency."

Excellent question. Having had the pleasure of the predecessor to Audio Magic’s beeswax fuse, the liquid filled Super Fuse - it’s the bee’s knees - I would also clamor in favor of a shoot out between the Black and the beeswax.

Geofkait,

I have not used the AM beeswax fuse, i do not feel compelled to try it as it is only an ordinary fuse infused with beeswax. I did however, used a capacitor dipped in beeswax and housing made of wood.
Way more organic sounding, but lacks dynamics and pizzaz(brighter, harsher?) in favour of this smooth, natural sound, a tad dull or damped sounding i found in that application over the non beeswax metal canned capacitor .

I wouldnt risk a expensive fuse to infuse molten beeswax thereafter it solidified, a small bag of beeswax granules i still have. It would also be non reversable. Vibration and dielectric changes.

I guess i would perfer a plain fuse which was tunnelled by S.R.

More on Graphene, its resistance changes wildy and in a non linear fashion over a small voltage change passing through graphene. There is no way of any Graphene fuse in the conductive path. Period.

So a Red fuse with graphene in the black dot of the fuse body. Appropriately name the black fuse.

Much like the WA fuse tweak , but affecting the sonics differently.

Audiolabyrinth,

Lean might not be the best choice to describe it. It certainly has much less midbass and midrange presence in favour or allowing a more neutral midband thus allowing the lower bass to emerge and not covered by a more prominent midbass.

On my 12" bass driverss i am actually getting more lower bass weight and impact, but less midbass weight and punch.

That is why i qualify that  on a 10" or smaller bass driver, it would possibly  cause a overall leaner and lighter bass presentation.

Depending on associated equipment and room acoustics (excluding a boomy room) possibly a fuller midbass presentation may be better suited to a smaller driver. Otherwise, in a boomy sounding room/system, the back may possibly be a good choice, but one would have a long way to go even before trying out the black fuse as a bandaid.

Justtubes2,  not the case,  no bandage,  I don't want a fuse to destroy a perfect sound,  it's like,  if it's not broken,  don't fix it. 

However,  the money back guarantee is appealing on the sr-black's ! , you know,  I just bought arguably the best outlet money can buy,  these are like huge component upgrades,  the new and improved furutech ncf gtx-rhodium outlet's.

^^^

1. If the maker of the SR Black fuse makes a 90% profit ... good for him. He is selling the Black fuse for $120.00. I think, based upon the result given, its worth the money in trade. He wants my $120.00 and I want the fuse. Both parties walk away from the table feeling as though they got a fair shake. That's capitalism. 

2.  I have used stock fuses throughout my system. I changed all the fuses for the HiFi Tuning fuses. Result? A total improvement in all areas. Then, I changed the fuses for the SR Red fuses. A huge improvement in all areas. Now, I'm in the process of changing out the Reds for the Blacks. So far, three components have been changed out. The results? Mind boggling. 

3.  If anyone is experiencing leanness, brightness, diffuseness AFTER 100 hours on the Black fuse, check the direction of the fuse. If you have it in the wrong way, the system will sound as though its out of phase. It will still give you certain improvements over the Red fuses, but turn the fuse around for the maximum effect.

Just sayin' ....

 

justtubes 2:

Thank you for the detailed, informative, and insightful post. I do think the Synergistic Research SR-20 fuse is a wonderful "entry level audio grade fuse". I previously primarily had SR-20 fuses with some SR RED fuses in my three systems. I believe the SR-20 fuse also comes with a 30 day trial but one should check before ordering the SR-20. It is a wonderful performing fuse for the cost.

I will not try the Audio Magic Bees Wax fuse as there a  no return policy. I wonder if the fuse will sound different 6 months or a year from now.
I also wonder if it imparts that "overdamped sound" that can in the long run create a loss of musical emotion.

I too am enjoying the sound of multiple Synergistic Research Teslaplex SE wall outlets with one Furutech GTX - Rhodium wall outlet in the same system. For me it is easy to overdo the use of connectors that have Rhodium. But a touch of Rhodium can be like a touch of the right spice for a gourmet dish.

Geoff owns Sennheiser 600 headphones. I also own Sennheiser 600 headphones. I have found the Black fuses and to a lesser degree the Red or SR-20 fuse to significantly improve the headphone listening experience.

I do wish Geoff would audition some of the products discussed in this thread. I personally would enjoy his thoughts after he listened to the SR Teslaplex SE Wall outlet compared to what he is currently using, or the Furutech GTX Rhodium or Gold wall outlets.

It is hard to audition fuses in a now fuseless system as Geoff has. Time to put some back in!  It might improve the sound. Without experimentation it is merely speculation on how the newest generation fuses would affect Geoff's system. Of course installed in the correct direction!

David Pritchard

Keith, 
Justubes2 has posted some  very interesting comments on this thread.  Unlike his description of the Black fuses,  I've have not experienced any "lean" bass characteristics. The obvious effect of the Black fuses in my system has been further unveiling of my system's innate sonic signature without any noticeable tonal alterations. The fuses seemingly impart minimal coloration. Openess and transparency is increased and my system's organic character remains. I have to say that the Afterburner AC outlet has mirrored the same qualities,  pretty much quite neutral with excellent clarity. 
Charles, 

Davidpritchard wrote,

"It is hard to audition fuses in a now fuseless system as Geoff has. Time to put some back in! It might improve the sound. Without experimentation it is merely speculation on how the newest generation fuses would affect Geoff’s system. Of course installed in the correct direction!"

Huh?! I was experimenting with fuses when you were still wearing bell bottoms. I’ve already explained my system has no fuses, has no need for fuses and has no place to put a fuse, for the umpteenth time. The Audio Magic fuse overdamped? That’s rich. So now the shill is bashing the competition. That’s a fine howdya do. Just remember no fuse is better than any fuse.

Cheerios

Sooo ... what's wrong with bell bottoms???? 

Hi Charles,  thankyou,  I am interested in that after burner 8 outlet,  although I have to run sound test with the new NCF furutech gtx-rhodium outlet's I just received,  each socket of a two socket wall power outlet with the furutech takes 500 hrs to burn in,  och is an understatement! , that's 2,000 hrs for two receptacle's,  I totally agree with the furutech poster's on this thread,  useing two none ncf furutech gtx-rhodium outlet's did not sound as good as one,  however,  I'm the type that will test useing two ncf furutech gtx-rhodium outlet's and hope that the previous problem is resolved,  but I doubt this,  this will take months,  I have to know what these  $260.00 retail wpo’s-wall power outlet's do before I test the sr-black's,  lol,  I may very well have the sr-black's bought and sitting around before installing,  I want to be sure what the fuses bring to the table. 

Audiolabyrinth:

Congratulations on not taking the "short cut" approach to evaluating the difference in sound in the two top Furutech wall outlet offering. I agree that Rhodium takes a long time to break in. I will contact Alan Kafton the maker of the Audio Dharma Cable Cooker to see if how he uses his conditioners to treat Wall outlets.

Oregonpapa:

Absolutely right. I looked very good in bell bottoms -1969.
I know fuses have made fantastic improvements since then, as have capacitors, wires, and vacuum tubes. I know I am not the only poster here who has gone to the expense and trouble to try the new generation Elrog and Psvane Tubes.Their new 845 varieties do sound better to me than my RCA's and other NOS  845 tubes. But the cost of tube rolling is certainly much greater than fuse rolling.

I think with the latest advances in fuse manufacture, that the old adage that "no fuse sounds best" may now be incorrect. But only with  patience and a thorough investigation will we some day know.

The beauty of this thread is it takes a lot of time to evaluate even something as 'simple" as an audio grade fuse. With many data points published it does help others decide which path to take. I am thankful for the many posters who have taken the time to evaluate the latest generation of fuses  and published their observations. The value of this collective thread is far greater than any one poster.

David Pritchard

Keith,
I was pretty close to purchasing the Furutech GTX receptacle. An audiogon member named Zephyr24069 had tried numerous AC outlets and preferred the GTX. He said when he later discovered the Afterburner 8 he compared it with his GTX and couldn't tell them apart in his system.  This caught my attention and given that the Afterburner 8 is 1/3 the price I figured what the heck, .  It has unplatted copper prongs and is burned in with 80 hours. I have no idea if it equals the GTX,  I can say it's a very fine addition to my system. 
Charles, 

Davidpritchard wrote,

"I think with the latest advances in fuse manufacture, that the old adage that "no fuse sounds best" may now be incorrect. But only with patience and a thorough investigation will we some day know."

Next up, replacing the stock fuse with two SR Black fuses.  You go girl!

The beauty of this hobby is there is no right or wrong.

David says more power to the fuses! Geoff says none and sells the overpriced Sony Walkman to prove it. And beeswax is right out!

Just when I thought I figured out if I prefer tubes or transistors....

You guys just set me back 40 years.

Oh well, back to the drawing board....

I cannot believe that their are some people that think that a fuse cannot make a difference.  Really, so we buy 1000.00 power cords and have a 10 cent power fuse.  It should make a difference and should be on any audiophiles short list.   That being said, how do I get the lid off of a marantz sa11 s2? I have tried many times and I am just afraid I will damage the unit.

" I cannot believe that their are some people that think that a fuse cannot make a difference. "

I think my kids still think that.

Just to recap, for those keeping score,    I do think a a fuse can make a difference.    However I am still not sure that I have heard one actually make much of a difference yet.  Except of course no sound at all when it blows.

I also think that using a "better" fuse with a fused speaker like Magnepan, where the fuse is actually in the signal path, has the best chance of reaping the biggest rewards.

But hey I gotta agree with Geofkait at least somewhat  on this one.  Having speakers with no fuses at all ain't such a bad thing either.

I think with the latest advances in fuse manufacture, that the old adage that "no fuse sounds best" may now be incorrect. But only with patience and a thorough investigation will we some day know.

Say what?  Are you serious?   The more in the chain the more coloration even with SR Black fuses and I'm using a FULL LOOM of them.   This is the reason companies such as CAT and ARC limits the number of fuses in their components.  

I cannot believe that their are some people that think that a fuse cannot make a difference.  Really, so we buy 1000.00 power cords and have a 10 cent power fuse.

I suppose that among the 1226 posts that have appeared in this thread so far there are a few in which it has been asserted that a fuse cannot make a difference.  But I cannot recall any such posts, and I for one, as well as Mapman, have not made any such assertion.

I would add, however, that I would not consider the low price of stock fuses to be a factor that is supportive of the existence of such differences.  Just as I would not rule out the possibility that a lower priced power cord may outperform a higher priced power cord in many applications.

Regards,
-- Al
 

tzh21y:

I have a Marantz SA11-S2 unit. Remove the three screws at the back of the unit that are along the top edge. The lid needs to be slid back about 1/2 inch and then it will lift straight off. But the lid usually will not move back with just finger strength! There are two outcroppings on the back of the top lid that can be used to put in a flat bladed screwdriver and pull the lid back the necessary 1/2 inch. For me what worked better was to put a very fine flat edge screwdriver in the space at the front of the unit and carefully move the lid backward a fraction of an inch at a time. Put the blade in on the front left, middle and right side to loosen it up.

The main power fuse is by itself, on the left side as you face the front of the unit. You will also see six rail fuses that are 1.6 amp and one amp. Small slo -blow type.
I would upgrade the power fuse first and see if you like the change. Leave the unit on 24/7, and listen critically a week latter. 

If you still have trouble with the lid let me know. It is very rewarding to look inside the unit.

The Marantz really responds to a Synergistic Research Black fuse upgrade.

David Pritchard

F

In all fairness, as I mentioned earlier,  the fuse I replaced with Synergistic Red in my Audio Research sp16 looked quite substantial and well thought out, not your garden variety fuse to start with.    Why would a company like Audio Research limit performance of their highly regarded products with a 10 cent fuse?    It does not appear that they did.   That fuse surely would cost more, maybe as much as a few bucks even assuming ARC buys their parts in bulk and gets a better price accordingly.

mapman:

I am suggesting that it may be possible that the new generation Black fuse that has been cryogenically treated, Quantum Tunneled, treated with UEF and Graphene, may sound better than the 3/4 inch piece of wire it replaces. Especially if the wire is ordinary low quality hook up wire. This experiment has not been done to my knowledge.

It may not of course but until the experiment has been done it has not been proven which gives the better sound. It is also possible that there is an optimum number of these fuses for a circuit. More or less or  even no fuses may give the best sound.

In the Marantz SA11-S2 SACD player I replaced the seven fuses in three steps. First the power fuse, next five of the rail fuses and lastly the fuse to the laser assembly. In this exercise I heard an improvement with each series of fuses replaced. I found it particularly interesting that the laser assembly fuse also responded to changing the fuse.

mapman- do not sell your children's intelligence short. My son has no problem with the concept of a fuse changing the sound, just as changing the type of strings on his viola changes the sound.

I wish someone would explain to me how viola strings wear out.  As they age while playing, they at first improve and then get worse. Just like many audio components.

Geoff:

I only wish I could go as fast as my daughter. She is singer-dancer in the high school show  choir and in the school band's drum line. One of the few female drummers in the school band!

As you might guess, at my house I do not lack Live Music to see how my audio system is performing.

David Pritchard

Such a wonderful thread this is. Better sound obtained. More insights gained. And most importantly, new friends made. :-)

oregonpapa:

I agree. I also would add people overcoming fear and prejudices. Learning new skills whether it is how to replace a fuse, read the fuse, or opening the audio component. It took me over a year to finally take off the top of my SACD player due to fear and not knowing the trick to get it off.

It seems to me our hobby should be enjoyable and liberating.

David Pritchard

Can someone help me out with this?

I see red fuse and sr20 quantum fuse products on synergistic research website if I search it for the word "fuse" but no "Black" fuse.

I do see reference to SR black fuse at highend electronics website here:

http://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-black-quantum-fuses

and the highend site is where the use of graphene and other SR specialty technologies are mentioned.

Does SR cover the Black fuse on their site? Also what is the sr20 Quantum fuse? One would have to assume that is a different product.

Where are people buying Black fuses?   Highend-electronics?   Any others?

David,

If you look from the front of the marantz, from the top, 1st row of 3 fuses, the 3rd fuse from the top is for the display, you can save in one. 

Mapman,
The SR 20 Quantum is an earlier model fuse.I replaced my component's  stock fuses with them about 3 years ago. They were a very noticeable improvement. The SR 20 fuses  were subsequently replaced by the Red and then the Black fuses. Each progression led to better sound quality. 
Charles, 

I'm one of the few that has asserted that a fuse can't make a difference approaching anything like described ad nauseum in this thread (as long as the fuse holder is clean and functioning as designed…letting unfettered electrons through until sensing a fault), and am still certain of this. Overpriced voodoo is still voodoo, and mass hysteria doesn't make it less so. 

Thanks to brownsfan, now I'm using all SR Black fuses.   This time I ordered one from vhaudio and the other from highend-electronics.  Both offer free shipping and overall excellent service.   We can't have enough reliable vendors.

The Cable Company is another good source for the SR fuses, very good service. 
Charles, 

I've been buying from The Cable Company lately.   They also offer free shipping plus additional discounts.   All 3 vendors are recommended!

Charles, thanks. That’s what I was assuming. I guess eventually SR will update their website to reflect the newer product.

I hope they shed some light on the Graphene question. Geoff seems to think its used in the casing for shielding which might be fine but the vendor blurbs mention nothing about that but do cite the several million times more conductive thing.

I’m hoping these things will be clarified at some point in the future. Many may not care about technical details but some do.

Does anyone not see the irony in the Wolfman’s belief that electrons are moving through the fuse and the fact that he’s the only one who doesn’t believe in aftermarket fuses? On another note, Mapman apparently did not get my memo concerning the relationship between RFI shielding and very high conductivity nor has he feasted his eyes on an actual SR Black fuse, not even a photo of one, otherwise he could see the Graphene. Remember, Mopman, Google is your friend.  Besides, of what conceivable value would an extremely high conductivity fuse have when every other wire and cable in system is copper? Hel-loo!

geoff at Machina Dynamica
we do artificial atoms right

My black fuse arrived today from highend-electronics great service and shipped Sunday and here Wednesday going cross country! My 3rd transaction with these guys great service each time and love the free shipping. Installed the fuse but won't have a chance to listen until tonight so will update you all later.

So tonight came a little early just fired up the system for a first listen and first impressions, 5 minutes in to take with a grain of salt please, things seem a bit more relaxed. Not soft or slow sounding just a bit more organic and a more relaxed flow to things. That's on just two tracks Ben Webster "When I Fall In Love and Bill Evans "Isn't It Romantic" from Live at Shellys Manne-hole. So far so good.

I hope SR does not come out with a gold fuse next, would anyone change all their fuses again? I'm just poking fun at our hobby.

Hi Jond,
I like your taste in music (Webster and Evans) .  I did order the Tim Warfield and Chris Mcgregor  recordings you had recommended to me on my system page recently. The Black fuse will only get better with time.
Charles, 

charles1dad thanks and glad to hear you ordered them hope you enjoy. And moved onto Lester Young in DC now and so far so good. Retubed my preamp yesterday too so things just are sounding great right now.

Mapman wrote,

"I hope they shed some light on the Graphene question. Geoff seems to think its used in the casing for shielding which might be fine but the vendor blurbs mention nothing about that but do cite the several million times more conductive thing."

Oh, did I mention Graphene is one atom in thickness? I hate to judge things too quickly but I'll go out on a limb and predict you won't see any Graphene wires in fuses anytime soon.