Did you feel that there is an improvement more in an audiophile way, but lacking involvement > over the Red fuse?
Being more detailed and hearing more from the black fuse usually shift instruments closer or seemingly closer due to the new clarity, does staging become more forward?
Camping to hear your further great reports, Oregonpapa.
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Oregonpapa,
Have you tried reversing the direction of the fuse before leaving it to burn in?
I would guess you have it im the correct direction given the big jump in clarity you are experiencing over the Red fuse.
I gather from your observations, that indeed, the black is more resolute sound over the Red fuse and guess you have your system pretty much dialed in.
I often encounter a tweak or hardware change which is a clear step up but somehow get nagging feelings something is not quite right.
More often than not, I "Always" have to balance the it out a bit, by maybe shifting footers or room treatment tweek, e.g HFT’s to get things to my liking in the way, flow, emotion, smoothness, grainlessness aspects click back into focus of how I "like" it.
Nowadays, I prefer that something added does give a smaller incremental difference as opposed to a larger difference as this is more likely to work and not leaving me too impressed and eventually scratching my head why I not longer can have longer listen periods, totally relaxed. sometimes it can be too much of a good thing!
Good that things are getting better with more burning. |
The wrong direction sounded somehow wrong, rarher poor sounding. In my case, soft, unfocussed and lacking clarity just to mention some.
The correct direction snaps everything and show what the sound of the fuse does. imho, a normal fuse is not as appearent, but does sound clearer in the correct orientation.
Googling Graphene, guessing it is coated on the endcaps, is a nano carbon structure and is a super conductor.
hmmm, it is some kind of breakthrough material, but not much was revealed in the marketing literature of the Black fuse.
Maybe those who have the Black fuse in hand should looked at the endcaps to see if there is a coating. My guess is that the fusable element could not be graphene material as there is no industry standard testing or approving such a material I would make an educated guess.
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Jafreeman, i do agree with you.
If it sounds good, it's good, maybe just a little smoother but not drastic, i have heard the chord cable users saying the cables sound real bad when new and new in excess of 500 hrs in which there is a transformational change.
The basic characteristic sound show maybe with just a few hours running and at most by the next listening session.
If they sonic character is not immediately appearent, best to leave it to run with no further sessions until 2 to 3 days before reassesing.
I would think the Black cannot sound similar or as smooth as the Red, i associate more clarity with a less smooth or easy listening and more upfront sounding, some tracks actually may start showing more grain as well due to the more revealing character.
I definately found the Reds on the smooth side without any critical listening, itbwas there from the 1st go. I actually felt the SR20 sounds brasher and boulder but not as smooth and balanced sounding.
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David,
Might be a good idea to have a short listen are get the fuses correctly oriented before breaking and leaving them to further burn in for the weekend. |
Jarafreeman,
I know what you My front end has a total of 14 fuses!
Fortunately, Unfortunately they are chip fuses so there is no way 14 Black fuses will ever need to be considered.
On a whim, i have tried connection the transformer output bypassing the fuse and nasty steel pin connectors!
Ah yes, smoother, deeper music flowed from my speakers, a gain in purity, clarity more extended bass and more relaxed highs. What i observed was that the shift for the better also lacked a tiny bit of midbass attack, a focus to the instruments but with less smear in the staging. This lead to a very relaxed session, staging seems less deep due to the lessen smearing which give an illusion of sightly more ambiance and staging width and depth on certain recordings.
I have since reverted to original going through the nasty steel connections and fuses. Was the player voiced with these parts?
I know i have loss some purity, but felt it the way it was somehow connected with me.
I have come to a stage were i would reject more improvements in the incessant desire to improve .
I have used like 20 furutech fuses early (even before Hifi tuning, Synergistic fuses came around) and change maybe half to Synergistic SR 20 and now with a number of Reds.
With the many others, Hifi-tuning (never liked any of their sonic characteristics. Including another platinum plated fuse with pure silver fuse element, which, again didn't care for the sonic traits of that material.
What has come out of this exercise is that is that each fuse has a different sonic character. Just like cables, adding a particular brand in imparts its own sonic attributes (a "straight" wire? It just does'nt exist in the Hifi world, there is always a better mousetrap! Everyone seems oto want to build the best Trap nowadays.
These tuned fuses impart more than a direct connection and we "buy" into a particular sonic characteristic, whether it is the best is questionable and hope to best synergise what may be the "best".
There are just too many permutations and different brands of fuses that May lead to a higher level of enlightenment in the way we listen to our systems.
It may be just the flavour that one may prefer from a particular band, including fuses. |
Is no wire better than wire? My answer is no,
A fuse, just like wire, specially treated or plated over a bronze base over one with nasty steel and tin plated all add a colouring, more so than a straight wire or even a solid silver rod.
These mysterious fueses all impart their own sonic character, maybe even better than just a wire bypass. Well, im sure even the earlier sr20 fuse has some characteristic of tunneling process.
So why woud a same but tunneled outlet sound different?
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What specifically did the WA chip sound like or detract from adding it to the Black fuse? I have them on and didnt think to remove and try wothout them.
Comments by Geofkait about the cable chips not working well on cables and losing emotinal impact could well be due to the cable chip cleaning up the sound. In most cases, cleaning up the highs and tightening lows seems to make midrange sound leaner and less tubelike giving the impression of a slightly more mechanical sound. |
Not to detract off topic, but ect where shown on the fuses as an intended improvement.
Has anyone tried witj the reds or blacks and what sort of improvement they have.
I find the hft pretty useful but thats for use in
I may need to take the wa chips off to see if it makes an improvement.
Wonder the ects have graphene of similar effect when used on the sr20 or red fuse. |
Having removed the WA fuse chip i had on for a week and now reinstalling them.
For believers of this little chip, which cost literally a bag of chips reveals that they fill up the mid regions on the black fuse adding more vividness, upfront with slightly more apparent highlights of details. Well worth a shot if you have them laying around or even you you have'nt tried them.
This reveals how much change these chips make for an astonishingly low price point.
The black fuse shows it is leaner, less brilliant but well, more spread out or balanced sounding in my setup. With a less pronounced mid frequency balance does does allow more depth to come through. But it is now so clear that it does alone produce a dryer sound without the chip.
The WA chip is greatly effective, but does seem to be an opposite character of what the black fuse produces. With the chip, you have a much greater midbass presence, richer and weighter (more tube like sound).The Black fuse alone, one hears and feels the lower bass and a more neutral sound with less colour, this come with the expense of much less midbass. Anyone with a speaker with say 8 to 10" woofer might find a lightening of overall bass, any experiences from the testers here?
I guess it really depends on the sonic balance of ones setup, like any cable change, tweak from mars etc... one really needs to try to see if it fits their preferred sonic characteristic.
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Hi holydio,
I did mention in my setup, the WA chip seemingly is fighting the sonic characteristics of the Black fuse. It is just doing opposite and giving a different sonic perspective from what i gather the B.F is doing.
This may be counterproductive, but one needs to try, no risk or obligation if you already have the WA chips taken off your old fuses. It is a very contrasting effect and , some may like that presentation better.
Some background that i decided to order the fuse about the same time the Oregonpapa actually had them. Mine took weeks to be ordered and have them for a month now.
I was intrigued that tweaks i did not understand commanding an absurd profit margin over what i could figure the cost was,. In many, cases, some costing much more than just 1 B.F gave mindblowing results. When you consider that many of us may need in the region of over 10 fuses, even S.R was surprised that one poster here needed like a quite a number. It shows that the pricing was possible not commensurate with the typical expected number of fuses many of us require. It does add up quickly to a cost of a good cable.
Depending on where one would draw the line on expenditure, i would strongly recommend even the SR20 fuses, furutechs etc (i find these 2 are much better than stock fuses like bussman or littlefuse brand). However, if many are needed and investment in a better powercord where the resale value would still holds up better tweaks may make more sense as a starting.
It is much more difficult when starting to compare good aftermarket fuses to even better ones. Foe example i have many years ago tried gold plated, pure silver fuses and platinum ones. From a first go, the sonic presentation was totally wrong for my preferences much preferring the SR20's and Rhodium Plated variants offered.
I have spent over these years, the equivalent of a good (read rather expensive) power cord.
The black fuse does things good, no real nasties i could not live with. But curious from day 1 reading about Graphene, and what or how S.R has incorporated it into the fuse. I guess for the asking price and cost involved, it was either a pure Graphene fusable element, layer over the fusable element or Graphene fused to the endcaps. No mention of the black dot or substance on the fuse was ever made.
I concluded that the fuses are generic fuses as before, quantum tunneled and with a Graphene dot adhered. Photo of Graphene lead me to point to this black dot. A small 5ml bottle costs $75, but could still possibly treat a hundred fuses this way.
S.R has made reference to this thread, but never stepped in to clarify the real differences over their SR20 or red fuse which still remains in the product. Well, i do not blame them, it is proprietry what they did to the fuse, however simple and i respect that decision.
I might just pickup a bottle of Graphene mixture to play with :).
Disclaimer. I am a believer of Graphene (possibly because of its similarities with C-13 or 16 carbon isotopes (if i recall correctly) as i had a game changing set room tweaks which is said to be based this principle and was the reason why i gave these fuses a shot (mind you, no money back 30 day trial) or non-US customers. That was really one of the few transformational tweak i have used.
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David,
For an educational trip on the topic of fuses for the benefit of forumers, like what David said, if you are coming from a stock fuse, you probably have still a long way before getting too concerned on whether the black or red fuse is better.
All stock fuses are a big bottle neck, any of the exotic fuses will make a worthwhile improvement. I would recommend ALL fuses be changed out to any of the aftermarket flavours.
The question is which fuse should i get? I personally feel that the price point of the Black fuses is way too high a premium for those changing out stock fuses. Untill you can appreciate what a better exotic fuse does. Testing a Black fuse would and will in some circumstances, lead to this thread evolving into a pissing of opinions about the "black fuse", what it did or did not do.
All whom have tried aftermarket fuses, like Oreogonpapa said is almost risk free applies to those based in the US only. It costs just a few bucks shipping, you really have nothing to lose if you are comfortable with the pricing and investment.
This thread evolved form those who have started with exotic fuses or like SR20, Reds and now the blacks. Overtime , as ones system improves and evolves, the neutrality of the black fuse would likely be more appreciated and suitable than the more coloured offerings of the red fuse and the other exotic fuses and may well work better than the black in their systems.
The black fuse is obviously priced and targetted and the more evolved and heavily invested systems where one will pay even 10 times to gain that sonic direction in line with the owners preference, hence the money back guaranrtee or free trial.
It is hard to state that one systems sounds real, so much like live and the instruments jumping into the room etc etc etc....
Here is my perspective of how some other fuses may be worth considering in relation to what may best suit your system.
I have in total invested in close to 20 furutech fuses, having tried gold plated, silver, platinum ones. This was before even the SR20 being released.
For my preference, i still do think the SR20 or the furutech (especially if one need tge added rhodium plate flavour). Sr20 are more neutral, hifi-tuning more warm and lush, furutech having a rhodium powerfulflavour (just like all the rhodium plugs out there loved by many).
THE SR20 are more uncoloured more dynamic with a tight bottom, it is not a romantic or give pastel shades to the sound. Neutral mean no warmth or sexiness comfort given to the vocals. The very reason why i do like SR teslaplex, which i use together with just 1 gtx rhodium. Retired all oyaide variants to get a more neutral sonic platform and steer to unplated copper plugs now.
This is what i like or dont like abput the Black fuse, It is deviod of any colouration. Does it sound more beautiful, No. It strength is an uncoloured base like with no MSG added.Nothing really that pops in any frequency range or beautifying things. Its like drinking plain distilled water, one may well prefer a fresh jiuce or a coke on a hot day. I would possibly like other ore coloured fuse in my system in the earlier days.
Geoffkiat, contact treaments like the E-SST or furutech makes a bigger difference in my experience, but sound goes in one direction too much that i wont try it on the fuses but only in specific locations and certainly not on every contact point, whether on fuses, signal or powerplugs. They all do color and shift the sound in a particular direction. The black fuse reminds me what and how crystals impact the sound, making for a leaner more neutral prsentation,, cooler in tonality and devoid of any warmth.
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Geofkait,
I have not used the AM beeswax fuse, i do not feel compelled to try it as it is only an ordinary fuse infused with beeswax. I did however, used a capacitor dipped in beeswax and housing made of wood.
Way more organic sounding, but lacks dynamics and pizzaz(brighter, harsher?) in favour of this smooth, natural sound, a tad dull or damped sounding i found in that application over the non beeswax metal canned capacitor .
I wouldnt risk a expensive fuse to infuse molten beeswax thereafter it solidified, a small bag of beeswax granules i still have. It would also be non reversable. Vibration and dielectric changes.
I guess i would perfer a plain fuse which was tunnelled by S.R.
More on Graphene, its resistance changes wildy and in a non linear fashion over a small voltage change passing through graphene. There is no way of any Graphene fuse in the conductive path. Period.
So a Red fuse with graphene in the black dot of the fuse body. Appropriately name the black fuse.
Much like the WA fuse tweak , but affecting the sonics differently. |
Audiolabyrinth,
Lean might not be the best choice to describe it. It certainly has much less midbass and midrange presence in favour or allowing a more neutral midband thus allowing the lower bass to emerge and not covered by a more prominent midbass.
On my 12" bass driverss i am actually getting more lower bass weight and impact, but less midbass weight and punch.
That is why i qualify that on a 10" or smaller bass driver, it would possibly cause a overall leaner and lighter bass presentation.
Depending on associated equipment and room acoustics (excluding a boomy room) possibly a fuller midbass presentation may be better suited to a smaller driver. Otherwise, in a boomy sounding room/system, the back may possibly be a good choice, but one would have a long way to go even before trying out the black fuse as a bandaid. |
David,
If you look from the front of the marantz, from the top, 1st row of 3 fuses, the 3rd fuse from the top is for the display, you can save in one.
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David, Would it be best to replace the black outlet 1st over a black fuse in your opinion? Which do you feel gave a bigger difference.
It will replace a Red fuse and a Teslaplex SE.... Was going to get the new Furutech NCF outlet. |
Thanks for the recco.
Did you replace the Tedlaplex se with the black?
Just very curious what the sonic differences were in your case to steer.me in deciding whether I need the change.
I find the original Teslaplex actually the most dynamic but with some hardness and brightness.
The SE fixes that issues and is more musical, but at the same time not as dynamic and forward sounding.
The Gtx R is supremely detailed yet natural, but not as big sounding or dynamic, I still find a touch of the Rhodium presentation and forwardness.
I use a mixture of 2 Teslaplex, 2 SE and 1 Gtx which I found the best mix similarily.
So am looking forward to an upgrade of either the 2 and need yuur further insight.
Thank you
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Thanks for the rundown on the outlets.
Outlets are also a very large contributor to the sound, but find they, like plugs can cause a bigger change and improvements which need carefully synergies with the equipment and cables unlike the fuses. Any aftermarket fuse is likely to give an overall improvement over a stock standard fuse.
Like the wall outlets, i still like the old Teslaplex (non SE) in front of the SE version. It has some hardness and dynamics which the SE verion leaves behind for a more musical presentation, which for Rock music give a calmness which at times seem wanting.
Afraid an added GTX-D may add too much detail and spotlighting effect which a nonplated outlet will never give.. So may swing for the black. |
Wig,
If you are stil on this thread.
Do you find it in a way more techical sounding, spread out the sounds within the stage clearly and evenly (which i found is the strongest point), doesnt really have shortcomings in any frequency range? Over the other fuse or fuses you used.
I feel that blacks and outlets does well technically overall, does sound organic in a neutral way that is , having less colours to the music.
These colours, not coloured sounding, may addto musial njoyment you are experiencing even if the are other areas which may fall short of the black fuse? |
