jafree, I need to pick up more of the Hayward mixes. I think I have his version of In Search Of the Lost Chord and maybe Octave but that's it.
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
4,839 responses Add your response
OP, One thing I should say is that I am not one to continually pick apart how my stuff sounds. I've managed to get past all that with the setup I've assembled currently. The fuse is there and sounding good. It may be providing some change in the sound. It sounds really good fuse in or out. If there are differences, they are subtle so either way works. I dabbled with a/b compares the other day and am done with that. The fuse will likely stay in now that its there. If it blows would I replace it? Dunno yet. I'll wait to cross that bridge. I am not likely to be running out and replacing all my fuses with these though. |
Papa also someone above pointed out that the fuse ARC put in their unit appeared to be not your typical Walmart variety fuse. I would agree. The slo blow fuse that was in my ARC sp16 looked quite substantial and nothing like the slo blos we used to sell at Radio Shack. Some thought appeared to go into it. So I don’t think its safe to say that those making our gear always give fuses the short shift. There are many reasons why ARC has been as successful and been around as long as they have. They make great sounding gear to start. Also I noted earlier that back in my hifi sales days, I recall convincing myself that slo blo fuses made more sense for use in hifi gear than fast blo and developed a preference for those based on teh gut feel that every slo blo fuse I have seen has a more substantial filament and is more forgiving of current passing through and I think its a safe assumption that teh fewer bottlenecks anywhere the better.. Its also almost always the case that one can only judge something new in comparison to what came before it. The quality of fuses being replaced by audiophile fuses surely varies widely. That alone could account for why different people hear different results. I tend to downgrade any review of any product when the reviewer fails to acknowledge what the gadget he thinks sounds so great is replacing. So for me, its never been about whether a fuse can sound different or not. Its more about the value proposition of various options. $100 is small fry to pay as part of a 5 digit system. Yet there may well be other commercial fuses out there of similar quality still for less than $1. That’s still a huge difference to justify. When the time comes to replace a fuse, I will surely still consider all the alternatives based on pure technical merit. If the $1 fuse does not cut it, no big loss. |
Georgelofi wrote, "OK, try this one for an experiment only, definitely not for long term for safety sake. Make sure all is working fine and you grown used to how it sounds. Then remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire, you can even tack solder it on the outside of the fuse holder. It should sound the best, if anything at all." actually, with all the advancements in fuse technology, including quantum mechanics and nanotechnology, in the past twenty years including, but not limited to, purer wires, better end caps, attention to vibration, attention to EMI/RFI, and attention to "energy flow efficiency" (WA Quantum Fuse Chip), the old copper wire bypass trick probably actually isn’t up to snuff anymore. And I didn't even mention cryogenics. Shame on me. Besides you’ve only got a 50% chance of inserting the copper wire correctly according to my calculations. Otherwise you’ll wind up with a big mess. Not to mention the unpleasant sound resulting from soldering the copper wire. geoff at MD no goats no glory |
"OK, try this one for an experiment only, definitely not for long term for safety sake. Make sure all is working fine and you grown used to how it sounds. Then remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire, you can even tack solder it on the outside of the fuse holder. It should sound the best, if anything at all. Cheers George"
I tried this with a pure silver fuse replica that was highly polished. After A*B-ing a few times... my conclusion was... the SR black fuse was highly superior in every way. |
Well if teh Black Fuse truly uses Graphene as claimed then it might well be more conductive than silver. How about in teh interest of science open up a Black fuse and report on the contents for us? If the graphene claims can be verified independently that would score another point for SR and also help justify the cost further. It could be like those flavored drinks, yeah there is a little pomegranite in there but its mostly sugar and artificial flavorings. "Skeptic" mopman out. |
Mapman wrote, "Well if teh Black Fuse truly uses Graphene as claimed then it might well be more conductive than silver. How about in teh interest of science open up a Black fuse and report on the contents for us?" hmmm, one can’t help wondering if the little black dot on the outside of the BLACK fuse is the Graphene, you know as in graphite. Isn’t that the thing that supposedly interferes with the WA Quantum Chip for fuses? One gets the feeling the Graphene is not being employed as a conductor. I know what you’re thinking: how do you know that! pop quiz: what's in the WA Quantum Chip for Fuses? geoff at md |
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"OK, try this one......remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire,"Did you try reversing the direction of your wire? Maybe it was backward. |
Well I guess if one cared enough one could easily call Synergistic Research and ask any question they like. Nothing like getting info straight from the horses mouth. There is probably a simple yes or no answer to most questions. If I get the urge to actually buy a fuse from SR, that is what I will likely do prior. There should be no need to guess if one has questions. |
Mapman wrote, "Well I guess if one cared enough one could easily call Synergistic Research and ask any question they like. Nothing like getting info straight from the horses mouth. There is probably a simple yes or no answer to most questions. If I get the urge to actually buy a fuse from SR, that is what I will likely do prior. There should be no need to guess if one has questions." Think of it as a mental exercise. You’re the one that’s been guessing the whole time anyway. And incorrectly I might add. ;-) |
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Think of it as a mental exercise. You’re the one that’s been guessing the whole time anyway. And incorrectly I might add. ;-)
" So your saying I should waste more time trying to figure things out rather than asking the experts? IS that what you tell your customers when they ask ask about your teleportation tweak? Geoff if I indulged in your recommended mental exercises I think my mind would wilt. Maybe that would make me more likely to buy something from you? :^) |
Sometimes it’s the better part of valor not to respond to my posts. ;-) I hate to play the guessing game but I’m guessing you didn’t get the memo about Graphene being a good RFI shield due to it’s very high conductivity. I’m guessing (again) you probably thought they were using Graphene on the fuse wire. ;-) Also, I can’t help notice you didn’t take the bait on my pop quiz and the WA Quantum Chip for fuses. Smart man. In any case, it looks like the case of the Black Fuse is solved. geoff kait machina dramatica An ordinary man has no means of deliverance |
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mapman Ididn’t say to "eliminate". Isaid to try as an experiment, just like your doing now with these fuses. Cheers George
Your kidding right??? What do you think the yards of traces under your circuit boards are made of??? Copper!!! Cheers George |
Geoffkait: "the old copper wire bypass trick probably actually isn’t up to snuff anymore. Not to mention the unpleasant sound resulting from soldering the copper wire." geoff at MD To which George replied, "Your kidding right??? What do you think the yards of traces under your circuit boards are made of??? Copper!!!" You’re opening with that? A Strawman argument? We’re not talking about the copper traces or about any copper wire anywhere. We're talking about the fuse bypass. Let's keep things simple. We’re just comparing a modern aftermarket Fuse like the ones we’ve been discussing with a copper wire bypass. After all that was YOUR claim - that a straight wire bypass would outperform an aftermarket fuse. And I just gave you plenty of reasons why a modern fuse will outperform the copper wire bypass. In fact, now that you bring it up, I’m all in favor of maintaining correct directionality for all copper wiring EVERYWHERE in the system - circuit boards, internal wiring of speakers, transformers, of course interconnects and speaker cables but also capacitors, resistors, etc. All wire is directional. Not just fuses. Hel-looo! |
Technically YES, if one is a technician and a betting man you would put your money on the "temporary" 10mm piece of copper wire everytime, unless one is a voodoo’ist then your a believer that pigs can fly. That’s why this sort of thing is not getting any reco in the "Tech Talk" forum and should not be given it as well. Unless these fuses are resistive, capacitive, or inductive in nature, then there are grounds for a technical discussion on them, and if they are any of these then they can only be detrimental to performance in the power supply chain. Cheers George |
Just installed the two T800mAL SR Black fuses into my Sony XA-5400ES deck. I tried them both ways and everything got better when with the arrows facing the front of the unit. Playing John Hiatt's Crossing Muddy Waters and I have to say, the jump factor, even with these, cold out of the post box, is really something. The string work between guitar and mandolin sounds more acoustic and more alive, immediately with these babies in place. Can't wait for John's voice to come in. Time to punch the burn clock! Burn babies, burn! What a great way to start the weekend. Cheers! Happy Listening! |
georgelofi, dear sir, you are sadly confused by only a portion of the facts IMHO. If you would just use those marvelous joy receptors on either side of that over analytical mind, I believe you would be able to validate beyond any question that something good is taking place here with these little devices. Logic has you bound up believing what experience will show simply enough is false, or a half truth. I recommend just trusting you ears, relax, and enjoy. Life is too short. There are many things we can hear that can't be measured, and many things measured that can't be heard. Happy Listening ah?! |
Facts "IHMO" ?????? please post all these "facts" up by all means, back by some sort of SOUND technical explanations to their advantage to sound quality improvement. Myself, and I’m sure many others here are all ears to hear the "facts" and their technical explanations. Cheers George |
I've got about 50 hours on the two SR blacks I installed in my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 now. Last night, I removed them and put the stock fuse back in. The effect was exactly the same as A/B'ing stock vs SR black in my Coincident CSL. The sound went two dimensional with loss of dynamics and a step backwards in complexity of harmonics. I reinstalled the fuses one at a time, and found that the fuse serving the hard drive was far more important than the fuse labeled "mains." Next up I am either going to buy one more 3.15 A slo, and fuse my Coincident Franks with the SR Blacks leaving the stock fuse in the mains slot, or else buy a fuse for my MW PS 9.0 power supply. Like others, I am really surprised how much difference these fuses can make. Where these fuses make a difference, the difference is substantial. |
Geoffkait: After all that was YOUR claim - that a straight wire bypass would outperform an aftermarket fuse. To which Georgelofi responded, "Technically YES, if one is a technician and a betting man you would put your money on the "temporary" 10mm piece of copper wire everytime, unless one is a voodoo’ist then your a believer that pigs can fly. That’s why this sort of thing is not getting any reco in the "Tech Talk" forum and should not be given it as well. Unless these fuses are resistive, capacitive, or inductive in nature, then there are grounds for a technical discussion on them, and if they are any of these then they can only be detrimental to performance in the power supply chain." well, actually maybe YES for a stock fuse or perhaps for an aftermarket fuse of yore. But, as I already explained fuses have evolved. They’re like the Alien. Many modern (I.e., aftermarket) fuses address a wide range of problems, problems that exist with a stock fuse AND with a copper wire bypass. I am going out on a limb here but I’m guessing that techs don’t believe in wire directionality, do they? I'm getting the feeling techs might be a couple paradigm shifts behind the curve. Anyway, to summarize, the real answer is NO. geoffkait @ Machina Dynamica |
brownsfan1,122 posts03-19-2016 5:30amI’ve got about 50 hours on the two SR blacks I installed in my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 now. Last night, I removed them and put the stock fuse back in. The effect was exactly the same as A/B’ing stock vs SR black in my Coincident CSL. The sound went two dimensional with loss of dynamics and a step backwards in complexity of harmonics. I reinstalled the fuses one at a time, and found that the fuse serving the hard drive was far more important than the fuse labeled "mains." Next up I am either going to buy one more 3.15 A slo, and fuse my Coincident Franks with the SR Blacks leaving the stock fuse in the mains slot, or else buy a fuse for my MW PS 9.0 power supply.Brownsfan, what direction did you install the two SR black fuses in your MW Sony HAPZ1? Facing the unit from the front, Is the fuse in the front or rear serves the hard drive? My board doesn't indicate "mains" ... both have same label. |
i suggest that nstalling the two T800mAL SR Black fuses into a Sony XA-5400ES deck one should hear a better result with when when the SR (red) logo "arrow" is facing the front of the deck. Or in other words, the fuses should read like illustrated: BACK OF DECK< SR ----> >FRONT OF DECK agreement with this direction is also documented here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/sony-xa5400es-fuse-directionality?highlight=Xa5400es%2Bfuses Happy Listening! |
georgelofi, dear sir, you and I will perhaps never agree because in you mind set, a fact, is not a fact until human consciousness and agreement formally except an idea. In my mind, this can be pure madness and so would be arguing this subject as I am scientifically, admittedly, ill equipped. The problem with this fundamental miss step though is we (and our science) is often wrong until it is right. Commonly the human condition can't see outside the small box it has constructed to feel comfortable. This is not to say, that that is all that exists. But it is our ignorance to believe in such limits. Just like with psychoacoustics or our terribly short audio memory, this mindset can be fooled. History is filled with pseudoscience proven wrong once an enlightened soul happens to observe and validate a phenomenon by looking at it in a way others have not. This is not voodoo, but many have been persecuted or worse for not thinking like the common excepted beliefs of a particular time, deemed as fact. I realize it is scary to question commonly held beliefs, some perhaps "seudo-facts". Yet I'm too busy enjoying my life and the music to argue with you. If you chose to be more interested in stamping out counterintuitive thinking "your voodoo" on public audio threads, that is your choice. Though it is a burden many of us will simply have to bear. I would only suggest that you consider "science" with the knowledge of a old man but, with the wonder and possibility of a child. I contend you will not only be happier, but may well leave the opportunity to actually discover or advance something in our science. In this case, I truly enjoy what Caelin Gabriel speaks of at the closing of this interview as I feel it is so spot on and I find it speaks well to this discussion. http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm Happy Listening, ah?! |
Georgelofi 3-18-2016 7:18pm EDTIt would be interesting if someone who has some of these fuses and also has a good quality digital multimeter would measure their resistances. "Good quality" includes the ability to resolve fractions of an ohm. If anyone does this, for the result to be meaningful the reading that is obtained by touching the two probe tips directly together should be subtracted out, if it is not zero. I’ve pondered the possibility that unusually high resistance might account for the differences that have been reported, compared to stock fuses. It seems unlikely for several reasons, including the consistently positive direction of the differences that have been reported, the directionality that has been reported, and the fact that the fuses would probably be getting warm or hot if their resistance was great enough to drop significant voltage. But still, it would be interesting if someone could make those measurements, if only because it may rule out a possible contributor to the differences. Regards, -- Al |
Al wrote, "I’ve pondered the possibility that unusually high resistance might account for the differences that have been reported, compared to stock fuses. It seems unlikely for several reasons, including the consistently positive direction of the differences that have been reported, the directionality that has been reported, and the fact that the fuses would probably be getting warm or hot if their resistance was great enough to drop significant voltage. But still, it would be interesting if someone could make those measurements, if only because it may rule out a possible contributor to the differences." pretty sure we’ve covered this question you’re pondering before. See link below to some data on HiFi Tuning’s website for resistance of various fuses - several of their own, stock fuses and others - backwards, forwards, cryo’d, what have you. No sense torturing yourself pondering. ;-) http://www.hifi-tuning.com/pdf/wlfr.eng.pdf "I'm trying to think but nothing happens." ~ Curly cheers, Geoff @ Machina Dynamica |
Geoff, repeating what I said in my post in this thread dated 3-8-2016 4:18pm EDT: Geoffkait 3-8-2016 4:01pm EDTYup. And as you may recall I commented on those measurements extensively in various posts in the long-running "Fuses That Matter" thread. Most notably in my post dated 5-14-2012 11:24 a.m., wherein I summarized my technical comments by saying: Regards, -- Al |
Salyes. That was well said. The great joy and gift of this hobby is we can listen and make our individual determinations, what else matters more than improving sound quality for our music reproduction at home? The SR fuses have increased your enjoyment of listening to music. I would assume this is the goal of all of us on a forum such as this. I am glad to read that your pleasure has increased with the use of these fabulous fuses. Hi Bill (Brownsfan) Yes. the very same effect in my system as well when compared to lesser fuses. Charles, |
Knghifi, looking down on the HAPZ1 with the front closest to me, the fuses were installed with the S to the left and the R to the right. Again, I found the directionality to be rather obvious. The fuse in the front is labeled HDD live. The one towards the back is labeled Mains Live. Look off to the left and towards the back for the label. I asked Dan Wright a number of questions, including "which fuse serves the DAC." He didn't answer that particular question. It may be that the mains fuse is serving mostly uses such as the display, which would explain that fuse having little or no impact of the quality of sound. |
A better sense of flow and the music being more "alive". I absolutely agree with you about life being too short. In less time than it takes to post an argument about obtaining some technical measurement, one can order a Black fuse that has a money back guarantee. High- End Electronics does not charge shipping to the customer. So even if you send it back Insured Priority Mail in a small flat rate box, you are out a maximum of $6.80. And please remember life is short - My Brother was diagnosed with Acute Monocytic Leukemia on Monday. Risking all of $6.80 to try a piece of equipment that multiple audiophiles have reported on favorably seems like a non issue. Listening to my system with multiple Black fuses has given me some real comfort this week. Mozart, Bach, and the serene lute music of John Dowland have been my close companions. David Pritchard |
Mapman, thanks very much for performing those measurements. The HiFi Tuning paper Geoff linked to indicates that the difference in resistance between a 3.15 amp HFT fuse and a standard fuse was in the vicinity of 0.03 ohms, with the HFT’s resistance being lower. Given the somewhat limited resolution of your meter, your results appear to be similar. So you’ve confirmed that unusually high resistance is not a contributor to the differences the SR fuses are making for many people. And neither is unusually low resistance. A 3 amp fuse in normal usage is likely to be conducting something on the order of 1 amp, which would result in a difference in voltage drop compared to a typical stock fuse of 0.03 ohms x 1 amp = 0.03 volts (corresponding very closely to measured voltage drop differences reported in the HFT paper for 3A fuses). And while 0.03 volts is almost certainly too small to make a difference in most or all applications, it is absolutely too small to make a difference that is consistently in the direction of being better, across a wide variety of components and a wide variety of AC line voltages. So the mystery continues. Best regards, -- Al P.S: David -- very sorry to hear the news about your brother. I’m sure I speak for all of us in hoping that his condition is treated successfully. |
Al wrote, "So the mystery continues." Al, sorry to be so contrary but actually there’s really not much mystery left. Didn’t you get my memo? Yeah, yeah, I know, all the world loves a mystery. ;-) Now, don’t get me wrong, manufacturers do use a different array of tricks sometimes, like the Nano Fuse and Super Fuse from Audio Magic that are liquid filled. I can see you and Mapman wince when I say that. ;-) of course SR has "quantum tunneling" and the little black dot. geoff at MD no goats no glory |
At all, even the SR claim that the WA Quantum Chip for fuses interferes with the operation of the Black fuse is probably no longer much of a mystery either since placing a WA Chip, although it’s teeny tiny, on the Black fuse could likely cover up the Black Dot, and could, one supposes, keep it from doing it’s duty. Sorry to disappoint. On the other hand if that's what SR was referring to couldn't an enterprising audiophile place a WA Chip on the Black fuse WITHOUT cause any "interference?" Speaking of which, HiFi Tuning ships their fuses these days (or at least the last time I looked) with a WA Chip already in place. It would be really cool if the WA Chip was located on the INSIDE of the HiFi Tuning fuse but I kind of doubt that’s the case. Now THAT would be a mystery. So, I notice I didn’t get any takers on my Pop Quiz, what’s inside the WA Quantum Chip? What’s up with that?! I guess all the world doesn't actually like a mystery. |
I concur music is a salve for mental and physical wounds....feel David's worry as my mother is in intensive care in a coma.... I have been very happy with the red fuse in my amp dartzeel amplifier and playback designs CD player. recently i put the black fuse into the playback CD player and it definitely improved soundstage further Today I put black fuse into the amp in same direction as red fuse used to be. isnt likely for those upgrading from red to black fuse that direction of fuse would be the same as it had been for the red? |
I should add on dartzeel amp the fuse holder slots in horizontally near front of unit on the inside and need open top of unit to reach (pain in ass) and the SR fuses were loaded in red (previously) and now black fuse with the Synergistic label going in forward direction so the "S" of Synergistic is closest to front panel of unit |
I am happy to weigh in on this lengthy thread. I swapped the Red for the fuse in my tube preamp and listened to it for a week. Then I swapped back the standard fuse, which turned out to be a Hifi Tuning fuse. Then I did an A/B comparison for a while with familiar music. To my aging ears, there was no difference in sound -- zero, zip, nada. So, for the price of a couple of stamps, I sent it back for a refund. I demo’d SR’s room dots (the little AL plugs arrayed around the room) and had the same experience. Still, they give 100% refund so you may find some merit in their products. I have a bunch of bottle caps from the dozens of Harp beers consumed at my home on St. Paddy’s day and I am gonna glue them all over the wall to simulate the effect of SR’s dots. I am always in search of a cheap tweak, but the SR products so far have not produced any improvement. Cheers. |
