Speakers or Turntable upgrade

That's really difficult to say, for me, anyway. Are there any particular speakers you have in mind to audition?

Just wanted to say that I've got a Clearaudio Charisma II MM cartridge in my Technics 1200G TT and it is superb.... 

I would look at speakers. First, of course, these will affect all output. Particularly if you go used you can be in the $5K new range… likely to be a very substantial upgrade. And finally, since digital can sound as good as analog in roughly the same price range these days, while giving access to nearly infinite music… this gives you more time to ponder this before the next time the bug bites.

@mustangjeff  if you really want to blow yourself away, you get a second matching subwoofer and a MiniDSP SHD to replace your preamp. It will provide first class bass management for your subwoofers and will raise your entire system to a whole new level. Your current table will do for the time being, but you will need to upgrade it in the future or you won't use it. The SHD has a Volumio chip in it and will stream Qobuz in high resolution. That and your current digital sources will seriously outperform your current table. You will have to get a P10 and a Lyra Delos to keep up. 

what happened to the Clearaudio Concept TT? i'd keep that for now if its still in the house. 

IMO  your speakers are the week piont in your system. So before you spend thousands on a new table i'd look closely at the speakers.  Maybe take a trip to a local dealer to have a listen to some newer models to see if they are giving more then the 100's are currently.  

What kind of improvements are you looking for, and are you looking for new or used?

The Concept is on my basement setup.  I have a Dynavector 10x5 on it.  I was looking for a third table for my office setup

I'm not sure what I would get to replace the Paradigms.  Maybe a pair of Klipsch Forte IIIs?  I think a semi local deals has them for $3600 a pair.

for the type of music you listen to, and your budget, I would go with Mission, KLH , PSB, GoldenEar or Aperionaudio

You would  consider the goldenear triton one.r a good rock speaker?

You would get the best upgrade with the speaker upgrade studio 100 are very old design at this time and newer speakers will outperform them

yes, they are full range, may be an overkill even :)

Take half that budget, and treat the room. 

Speakers

Rega P3? I just sold one that I upgraded with power supply, sub platter and platter upgrades. I replaced it with a vintage Dual 1219 from fixmydual.com. My taste in music is similar to yours, and I liked the Dual way better than the Rega even with all of the upgrades and the dual costs less than even a stock Rega. 

There is a pair of Triton Reference speakers for less than $4800 for sale here, was listed today.  I own a pair and all I play is Rock.  They are full sounding and amazing sounding.  I have had my pair for over 7 years and they are my endgame speakers.   They go for $12000.00 new

IMHO, Rega is good for someone who prefers a plug and okay approach but like mediium _grade mentionned. You can get a better sounding TT in that price point. I owned a P10 myself and while it is a very fine engineered pice of equipment it was disappointing sound wise. Agree that you should start with speakers and then you’ll be in a better position to evaluate TT options. Good luck!

@mustangjeff  All of the above suggestions pale in comparison. I have modified systems like yours and taken them to a whole new plateau with the Dirac Live room control in the MiniDSP and subwoofers. Taking the low bass out of you main speakers lowers distortion and increases headroom. Your system will go much louder, cleaner than it is now. Dirac will flatten the response of your system and room and give you total control over the sound with a very flexible digital equalizer.

I have no financial connection to any brands or stores. I have used the MiniDSP SHD is three systems including my own. There are two versions the SHD (Streaming, High Definition) and the SHD Studio. The Studio version does not have its own DACs for people who prefer to use higher quality DACs than are in the plain Studio. Because you need to buy two DACs with it, it is the more expensive option. Benchmark Media Systems uses a MiniDSP Studio and two of their own DACs in their show system. Dirac Live is a cloud based system. You measure your system with the microphone supplied with the unit and the measurements are sent over the net to Dirac Live's server that runs the calculations, generates the filters and sends them back to your MiniDSP. This is a great way to provide room control as you do not have to purchase the computer to do the math. The MiniDSP has a programmable subwoofer crossover in it. You turn the filter in your subwoofers off and in your case I would set the crossover at 80 Hz 48 dB.oct. In the equalizer section I would boost 20 up to 50 Hz 10 dB and taper down to 0 dB at 110 Hz. Then drop 20 kHz 6 dB with a very low Q so the the attenuation starts at about 1 kHz. 

If your room is the right size, consider either the Ohm Walsh 1000s or 2000s.  They are a fantastic rock speaker (they do every genre well).  Plus, they don't get that congested sound many speakers suffer from at higher volume.  Ohm offers a 120 day in home audition.

Speakers will almost always make a more noticable difference than anything else in a system. With your budget, there are many options especially if you buy used . Happy hunting.

I have the goldenear tritan 1 r in my home theater they sold Def tec and started goldenear.my Def tec are 7000sc great like the 1 r .the music  room has a used pair now. Good set of used speakers leave you cash for other upgrades latter. Enjoy the music. Tekton makes a good rock and roll speaker.stay healthy.

There are many ways to go with your upgrade(s).  That being said, keep in mind that speakers are always the business end of any sound system.  Spend some serious seat-time, if you can, with a pair of Revel F206.  I have no idea how these might match with your power source or your room acoustics, but they are hard to beat for the price. 

As for a TT upgrade, I would recommend you have a look at the MoFi Ultradeck with Mastertracker.  IMHO, you'd have to go into the 5K price point range to get a better TT than that.

Good Luck!

Diary of a hack audio hobbyist and the Paradigm ethos. Studio 100 v1 and v2, S8 owner.

Sit about three or four feet in front of one of your Studio's. With music playing listen for each driver.

If you can distinguish each driver that's exactly what's wrong with Paradigm's core design.

Within minutes of installing with, at the time, far more expensive used Avalon Acoustics Eidolons right next to the Paradigm's I couldn't distinguish the Avalon's individual drivers without placing an ear very closely to each of them. Coherence.

Along with coherence far better phase and time performance. Even my family could immediately hear the difference. 

Like a poor subwoofer setup you simply don't understand the audible difference until you compare things first hand and usually in your own home.

Despite my decades in this hobby, countless brick and mortar and audio show auditions I simply didn't know what I was hearing. Now I can easily hear systems with questionable time and phase attributes. I still need to get up close to hear a coherence issue. 

I have first hand experience with only two speaker manufactures who's products you might be able to find used within your budget. Vandersteen, Treo's and possibly Avalon Arcus. Clearly, there may be many more. 

Absolutly crawl test your room for the optimal subwoofer position and performance. All the best. 

Just my opinion, but since I’ve just gone through my 11th set of speakers looking to achieve that perfect sound I can tell you this. New speakers and I mean modern speakers are going to sound much different then the older classics or than what you’ve been listening to for years. Probably going to be a lot more revealing and depending on the quality of your source material you may not like what you hear.      
Keep in mind much of that classic rock stuff was not recorded very well and new speakers will not fix bad recordings. I can’t stress enough take your time, listen to as many speakers as you can with your vinyl or whatever music source you use. If you can “in home trial”, even better. Just realize the honeymoon of new speakers can be short lived and can have you listening to music that sounds good on your speakers but not be the type of music you like.  

Both....shop harder... ;)

Do you like the way your system sounds? No way I can put myself in your place, but if you are happy with the presentation, then upgrading your turntable, and especially your cartridge will reveal more of the substance of the music within your existing system, providing a better version of what you already have. If you change speakers, there is a real possibility it will lead to additional changes as you try to get everything in harmony again, or not, you just don’t know until you start down that path. If you want to keep things familiar but with more incite, upgrade your turntable/cartridge. If you want to embark on a new and perhaps different adventure in sound, get new speakers, but start saving for the next upgrade afterwards. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'll be honest, I've never been in love with the Paradigm Reference Studio 100's.  I got them used back in 2018 because my Ex Wife decided to make me pick between a pair of Vandersteen 2CE Sigs or my upgraded Klipsch Chorus II's.  I kept the Klipsch, and she took the Vandersteen's.  Everything has a story.

The Paradigms were the best thing available on Craigslist at the time which is how I ended up with them.  They've always been a bit fatiguing to me.  Some people say that about Klipsch, but I can listen the Chorus II's all day long.  It's probably due to them having new Crites diaphragms in the tweeter and midrange horns as well as completely new Crites crossovers with film caps.

One thing I will say about the Paradigms is that they play LOUD effortlessly being driven by my 200 watt/channel Rotel.  I do like to crank it up, but not usually to that level.  I remember liking the Vandersteen, and I think they would be good now that I have an SB3000 sub to pair with them.  I'm just not sure I want to go back to that 360 degree wrap around sock.  Our home has pets and I remember the Vandersteen being hair and dust magnets.

I may be preaching to the choir. Just an FYI

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb9h68-vandersteen-treo-loudspeakers-w-original-boxes-manual-gorgeours-full-range?refsource=hifishark
 

Definitely opt for a new pair of speakers that are highly rated and are very efficient. 

Bit of a philosophical question. I am a big believer of garbage in = garbage out. So if the signal going in to your speaker sux, then the sound coming out will suck. Someone did a survey a while ago, and my GIGO is definitely in the minority. 

@dmk_calgary purist would tell you it's garbage out. Of course most of us who have a mediocre chain, we have to optimize to make the best of OK. To my ears, it still sounds superb. It's garbage by audiophile definition but the best version of garbage.

@grislybutter - ah yes, but think how good your 'garbage' would sound if it had clean(er) garbage coming in.

@dmk_calgary so many ifs, so little time and money 

Rega's best value is in its tonearms. The P8 comes with the RB880, which is fantastic. I had a P5 and upgraded the arm from the RB700 to the RB880 and was blown away. So much so that I then upgraded the table to the P8, which didn't have nearly the stunning impact and cost about double after trade ins if I recall). But it does look pretty cool.

Can't comment on the speakers, but the source is the most important component and it actually decreases as you go down the signal path, contrary to what 90% or the posters here claim. If the signal is distorted to begin with, no preamp, amp or speakers can correct it.

+1 GoldenEar Triton Reference or 1R. Clear and musical top to bottom with clear highs down to deep strong bass seemingly ideal for rock and metal energy music.

+1 MoFi Ultradeck with Mastertracker

Given that you are not 'in love' with the Paradigms, I would look for speakers that suit you better. Then you are better positioned to consider upgrading the source.

Im impressed that you. focused on the single two most important aspects of the system: the transducers.  This is where the energy changes from one form to another and therefore is the single most important process.   A phono cartridge changes mechanical to electrical, the speaker the other way around.   Spending money here pays off BIG.  You have a massive changes between cartridges (which of course requires a a great turntable and tonearm). Massive difference between speakers- and the room plays a big influence on how those speakers sound.  (the way to avoid so much room influence is to use a bigger room and get the speakers away from the walls, or get the listening triangle very small (also moving the speakers away from the side walls)..   Investment in these two areas can improve your system drastically.