Ortofon 2M Red cartridge that was included. The Ortofon cartridge is good but is sounding worn; and, therefore am considering a Denon 110 high output MC cartridge which will work with this table. High Output MC is bad idea, if you want an MC look for LOMC or leave the idea buying an MC (if you don’t have MC phono stage) and stick with MM or MI (they are better at this price and stylus is user replaceable). What is the budget for a cartridge alone (without turntable) ? If you have $350-450 for a cartridge then look for Stanton 881s mkII or Pickering XSV/3000SP .... these are the best performers you can get for the money. Both with Stereohedron stylus profile. Pickering XSV/3000-SP optimized for modern mid mass tonearms. If the budget is lower i don’t really know what to say. |
@chakster I'm not sure why you keep recommending cartridges that aren't in production and nearly impossible to find.
You'll get more bang for the buck upgrading the turntable. Consider buying used. Try going a little higher in the Music Hall line, like a MMF-7X or 5X. I haven't heard the Classic, but it looks like a decent enough table if you prefer to buy new. It should be an incrememtal step up.
You might be able to find a decent used table with an OK cartridge at your budget and then you can upgrade the cartridge later.
If the turntable itself has issues adding a better cartridge won't make them go away. I'd rather put an inexpensive cartridge on a good turntable than a good cartridge on an inexpensive turntable. It all matters, but the turntable is the foundation.
How long have you had the cartridge? |
I am not a fan of the U-Turn table, but I am not sure I would go for a Music Hall either. There isn't anything about it that stands out that defines it as a quality turntable. Personally? I would find a nice demo, open box, or even pre owned Rega and start with that. If you went pre owned I would budget in an upgrade for a Tango sub platter in the future and you would have a nice bang for the buck table.
As far as the Denon cartridge goes, I would think that is a fine upgrade over the Ortofon Red. The Red is a polarizing cartridge, there are many people who find it too aggressive and unrefined. The 110 is a tried and true budget cartridge, with a good quality diamond on it for the price. If you shop carefully on the net it can be had for under $300. It being HOMC is not a bad thing, while LOMC is technically better, there are many well built HOMC cartridges out there, the Denon is one of them. One caveat though. Its output level is not as strong as many MM or MI cartridges, so be prepared to have to turn the volume up a bit higher than what you currently do.
Other cartridge alternatives are from the Audio Technica line. The VM540ML is getting good feedback from owners. I also hear of folks taking the 95 body and putting the LP Gear Vividline stylus on it and getting very nice sound for the money. These are good choices also.
But audio is an adventure! There are many pathways to good sound, and all of us have different things we want to hear. Best of luck with your journey. |
@big_greg @chakster I’m not sure why you keep recommending cartridges that aren’t in production and nearly impossible to find. I feel your pain Greg, but they are not "impossible to find", those two models i have mentioned are for sale on ebay very often from many different sellers in USA or EU, even NOS samples. If you don’t search you will not find, but if you do then you will find and it’s not a big deal. I managed to buy them all, nearly all Stanton and Pickering line (top upper 5 models of each brand). If you’re in USA then it’s first brand to search for, because you can find local dead stock and stuff like that for very low price (almost nothing), ebay prices are higher for sure, i have mentioned ebay prices (and other sources like UK Audio Mart of US Audio Mart are very helpful. I recommend them because i like the sound so much! Maybe you’re not looking for some NOS cartridges, but i’m sure you are aware of NOS tubes and NIB are still available even if they are from the 30’s like some tubes i bought for my amp this year. Regarding rare cartridge you can simply ask me if you can’t find them yourself. Remember those endless Mm thread and seems like everyone was able to find many top class vintage cartridges (even in NOS, sealed boxes). |
I have a Stanton 981 HZS cartridge that came with a JVC turntable I bought. It didn't sound that great, but I think the stylus was worn and of course, an original replacement is also unobtanium. |
I also like the Rega recommendation and just move up the Ortofon line or consider a Nakagoka MP-110 ( $165 ) |
a new stylus in your ortofon cartridge (replaceable and/or interchangeable) is better than the new Spirit cartridge IMO
2M Series styli interchangeability:
The 2M Series' engines, coils and magnets configurations are not identical: Red and Blue are identical, so are the Bronze and Black and so are the true mono variants 2M Mono and 2M 78. Likewise, 2M series styli are interchangeable within the below combinations:
- 2M Red, 2M Blue and 2M Silver
- 2M Bronze and 2M Black
- 2M Mono and 2M 78
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Dump the Orbit in a heartbeat. Music Hall are decent from my listening, Rega or Fluance are better choices. You can get a Fluance RT-84/85 w/ortofon Red MM for 499.00 USD
@chakster: I too wonder why the push against certain types of cartridges. Not all of us have an unlimited amount of funds so we get the best we can with what we have.
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I have a Stanton 981 HZS cartridge that came with a JVC turntable I bought. It didn’t sound that great, but I think the stylus was worn and of course, an original replacement is also unobtanium. @big_greg You will find so many super positive feedbacks about Stanton 981s right here on audiogon from our Mexican or American users in the famous MM thread. For example @lewm is one who enjoyed it as far as i know. I’ve been using low impedance (low output) model of this cartridge. My favorite Stanton is SC-100 WOS (collector’s series 100). My Stanton cartridges are NOS or like new, so i can’t comment on worn cartridges.
I too wonder why the push against certain types of cartridges. Not all of us have an unlimited amount of funds so we get the best we can with what we have.
@jcipale Only honest opinion here. " We get the best we can with what we have " - this is exactly what i've been doing for the last 7 years. I've learned that "the best" is NOT expensive (and not the latest), but cartridge design and stylus tip is important, it's about sound, high fidelity. I think i explained so many times why one $350 vintage cartridge is better than most of the modern MM cartridges for the same price. You're comparing bonded spherical or elliptical styli with nude line contact type, but the price is the same, so what you would get ? If you could compare in your system there wouldn't be any doubt what is better, especially if the price is the same or very close. |
Thank you to all who have responded. Let me just add a few facts related to my table and cartridge. I have a Moon LP-110 phono stage which sounds very good as far as I can hear through Ortofon 2M Red. The Moon stage has various settings for both MM/MC so I am not concerned about dialing it in. The Ortofon 2M Red has an output of 5.0 MV whereas the Denon 110 is 1.6MV I never had to change the settings when I plugged in the U-Turn table I like The Music Hall "Classic" with Spirit cartridge offered by Music Direct. I like its look and its lift and turn off function at the end of play. However, I think Music Hall is one of those companies that promises more than it can deliver. As one responder noted, there are better cartridges than the included MH's "Spirit" which could be a dog or just OK. Nevertheless, I don't want to just settle for it because it is included Lastly, My vinyl interest and use is less than average, and I have a very modest collection of LP's so I don't necessarily want to spend $1000 plus for a new table, but will check a few more tables in the $500-$600. range. BTW, I did own a Rega table the P-24-3 about 15 years ago which came with Rega's Elys spike. The combo sounded very good, but I did not like that you needed a adapter from Rega to use other cartridges, In addition, the anti-skate control operated like a toy and built like one.
Cheers, S.J.
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SJ wishing you all the best on your quest :-) |
You only live once. Soon, you'll have lots of records and will always be buying and selling mediocre budget tables and losing on the transactions. Save up and get a Technics SL-1500C and Nag MP150. |
Technics SL1500C comes with Ortofon M2 Red and you can always replace the stylus when you have extra or you can sell it and buy a better cartridges. |
U-turn Orbit is very susceptible to room vibration. (Yes, I own one and have acrylic platter.) I built a suspended platform for the Orbit which transformed everything. Footfall not longer jars stylus out of groove. (Or, dancing wife) My HRS-12 Sunfire Sub no longer creates feedback. Changed from Ortofon Red to Blue and wow what a refinement! Highly recommend. With suspension platform I wonder how good can my cartridge go? This table obviously is entry level before platform upgrade. And still has severe limitations. But I wonder how much better cartridge could I use on this baby table? Ideas? |
@allears4u cartridge is extremely important and you can always find a better cartridge, i've been doing it many times :)) Read my first post in this thread, stylus profile is the key, Stereohedron is fantastic |
To allears4U, I bought an Aurelex TT platform from Music Direct for $80.00 and it works well with U-Turn Orbit. There is no footfalls vibration, or acoustic vibration ( as far as I can tell) I always thought the table sounded good and right. I decided to keep the table and bought an AudioTechnica VM95SH ( with shibata stylus) I did not want to spring for the more expensive AT VM540ML which has better specs. especially channel separation, but the specs of VM95SH are respectful and "should" outperform the Ortofon 2M Red |
I'm in the exact position as the OP. I want to move on from the U-Turn. What USED turntables would you recommend (I want fully automatic) - I am looking at some vintage Beograms and that's about it. I'm not looking for $$$ - more of a rough diamond :P
Thanks!
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