speaker upgrade from Magico A3

A few years ago, after reading a few glowing reviews, I was set on buying the Magico A3’s. But when I went to the dealer for a demo, I found them to sound sort of sterile sounding. The dealer happened to have also the Focal Sopra 3. Comparing those two speakers was a revelation to me. I bought the Focal’s.

Just be aware if you buy them new, they do take some time for the tweeters to blend.

ozzy

Given your satisfaction with Magico, I would look at the A5's, or, there is a pair of YG Hailey 1.2's for sale right now on Audiogon. I have owned a pair of these for less than a year and they are amazing speakers with peerless build quality. 

Sonus Faber would seem to be a good choice given what you’re looking for.  I think you might love the Joseph Audio Pearls, but they’re not available used very often and new are likely out of your price range.  The Perspective 2 is in your price range, and with the subs they may well be worth considering as they offer a goodly amount of what the Pearls do — definitely worth an audition if you can find them somewhere.  Best of luck in finding what you’re looking for. 

IMO the A5s are similar to your A3s just a bit more bass but only with an amp that has the current to bring them to life. Still a more sterile sounding speaker that does not suit many listeners including me. The Joseph speakers or SF or even Franco Serblin speakers are more musical to my ears than Magico. 

Thank you all for your responses! Much appreciated. 

When I was looking for my Livingroom speaker, I first went and heard the Magico A3 with Levinson top of the line gear. It was good but I could hear where the bass kicked in. Then I went and heard the Vivid Kaya 90 and loved it. It was like the KEF Reference line also with the aluminum drivers. Aluminum drivers seems a little old school but I love the KEF Blade 2 Meta and the Vivid speakers. The Blade 2 Meta was out of the picture due to concerns about it getting knocked over by my way to big for his age toddler.

The last speaker I demoed was the Yamaha NS5000 and that was what I ended up buying. The thing that separated the NS5000 from all others I heard was the coherence in the sound. The tweeter, mid, and 12-inch woofer are made from the same material. No other cone speaker can make that claim. The Zylon material used to make the drivers are as detailed as Beryllium but not as bright. I also felt that the NS5000 was the most technically advanced of all the speakers I heard.

https://hifiheaven.net/product/yamaha-ns-5000pnst-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-with-stands/

These "bookshelf" speakers need a big room. I used a very powerful amp on them, the CODA #16.

@mintakax  I see you have a couple speakers in mind for your speaker upgrade.  However, there’s a multitude of great sounding speakers (brands) out there to choose from that would probably work for you and your musical preferences, but you have very limited exposure and access to audition any of them, especially in-home demos. Personally, I wouldn’t buy anything unheard. Borrowing speakers from dealers for in-home demos is rarely allowed. Recommendations from others might be somewhat helpful, but not much if you still can’t go somewhere to audition the speakers for yourself. I was in your shoes about four years ago, but I already knew what speakers I had my sights set on. I was lucky to be in the market at just the right time to catch a local seller who had a pre-owned pair of the speakers that I had planned on purchasing available for an in-home demo. I went to the sellers home to audition the speakers and purchased them then. All you can do is select and purchase based on auditions either at your local dealers, local seller’s in-homes demos, or travel to go hear them. What else can you do? Happy listening.

you have a giant room you need large loudspeakers 

we would recommend the legacy Aeris as it is perfect for your room

1 it is tall so it creates a large room filling image.

 2:it has tremendous deep bass 

 3 it can handle your amplifiers power.

 4 it has good resolution  via custom heil AMT tweeter and midrange.

 5 it has a room correction processor to help with the reflections and nodes of a large room.

Dave ad Troy

Audio intellect NJ

legacy dealers

If you can’t do anything with the room, there is no big miracle from speaker changes. The room will be a bottlneck, but there are other line items you could address.

This Rel is not a good sub, not good for your magico (no bueno). Replace it with a pair of Rythmik F12G subwoofers, the piano black finish should boost WAF. If you keep subs next to the speakers on the front stage, you can take the crossover higher to around 100hz and blend it in. When you do that, the perception of brightness will come down and all the rock, techno and orchestra should start to sound pretty good.

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

Further down the road, you could add a BACCH processor, which can take things up a couple of notches with the Magico as well.

System is in a large room ( 30x35ft with 20 ft high pitched ceiling). Speakers 8ft apart 24" from front wall, subs next to speakers on outside. Very little to no opportunity for alternate positioning or room treatment.

Current system is : Aurender N200, T+A 200 DAC, T+A PA 3100 HV integrated, Magico A3 speakers, Pair REL S/510.

I don't think REL S/510 subs are not good subs.  I wouldn't choose them for home theatre in a large room, but they work great for music. I've never heard anyone call them not good for that purpose.

A room with that kind of volume sounds like an opportunity for large panels e.g. Magnepan.

https://magnepan.com/collections/floor-standing/products/magnepan-30-7

The local SF dealer near me carries the more affordable speakers and says the that the tweeter isn't as well integrated as what we would typically expect from the company. You do have a large room and the amount of reflecting surfaces will directly impact the sound. Is it safe to say you want to stay with well established brands? I would consider the Dynaudio Confidence 50's along with SF and even a pair of Usher be/td 20 dmd's as a place to start. Getting a feel for speakers sound in your room within your limited placement options will help figure out how to get the sound you want. 

From what I've read about the T+A  gear is tonally reserved(slightly) which may also affect tonal balance in your new system, idk but another consideration. 

When I tell shop owners what my stereo goals are, as truthfully as I can in the moment I'm nearly always impressed with the generosity they show regarding borrowing demo equipment and when they can compete with used prices. A good dealer will also know his gear and be able to save time finding the sound you want.

As long as you enjoy the process tho'

I forgot to also mention ProAc.  If you can find their K series somewhere they’d absolutely be worth a listen given what you’re looking for, and the K6 and K6 Signature in particular are in your price range. 

A lot of great advice in these responses, thank you all for your considerations.

If I were younger I would consider less established brands, but at these prices I need to be aware of the resale opportunities when I'm not around to supervise :).

I'm going to make an excursion next week to dealers in my area (Boulder/Denver) and hear more varieties.

The decision to buy new or used is the biggest dilemma. I can get in home demos of SF, Focal, B&W, KEF maybe a couple more but then the cost is close to 90% MSRP and then tax..  Pre-owned is much more tolerable. The new vs pre-owned decision for speakers seems more stressful than for cars :).

The AXPONA show is in a few weeks (Chicago area). Fly in and have a listen!

@mintakax ,

In addition to ProAc, I recommend Vandersteen. There are enough models to choose from, with respect to your budget. One thing the Vandies have over other speakers is a separately powered subwoofer (on the Quatro and up). Even using a Sub 3 will allow you to tune it to the room.

I have no experience with Magico, but I did audition the top models of Sonus Faber when I was in San Diego. I hate to say I was not impressed, in fact dissapointed.

If you are in the Northeast, Audioconnection would be the first place you should try to audition speakers. Johnny has ProAc and Vandersteen, and knows how to put a system together. I suggest you PM him (Audioconnection).

Bob

@gdnrbob and @soix - thanks, I'm in Colorado. I would love to hear some PrtoAcs K6 signatures, but can't find a Colorado dealer. I'll keep my eye out for Vandies.

@dweller --  I have considered AXPONA, my step daughter and family live close by. I should just do it.

@mintakax

You're more then welcome.  Glad to help.  Good luck in your search.  Happy listening.

I went from the A3s to Harbeth M40s.  I also mainly listen to classical.  I really liked the A3s but wanted something a little warmer and more natural, and which breathed easier, fwiw. The Harbeths definitely fit the bill on that count.  TMR sells them, perhaps you could look to audition them there.  They also sell ATC, which are excellent.  If it were me, I’d take my A3s there, and ask them to set up a demo with some good high power SS amp, and compare to the Harbeth and ATC SCM50 or 100.  I’m not sure how T+A would go with them but Harbeths respond pretty well to good solid state amplification in general; ATCs demand it.  But both of these speakers are excellent.  Otherwise, you might want to consult with a good T+A dealer like Bliss HiFi - they’re really great.  They may have some ideas on synergy with speakers.  Ultimately I ended up with Focal (Kanta) speakers only because I moved and originally the Harbeths were too big for my room.  Although I have a new room now, I prefer the Focals also to the Magicos in general.  Magicos require careful matching with electronics whereas the Focals works with just about everything.  

@OP, 

There is a Vandy dealer in Fort Collins, Audio Alternative.

I have no experience with them, but from my experience Vandy dealers are very knowledgable.

B

@sls883  +1

Great that you’re going to be working with a local dealer.  At that price range they should deliver, setup and calibrate the speakers you choose to make it easier on you.  Buying stereo equipment should be more enjoyable than car buying.  Trust you and your wife’s ears.  Enjoy your ongoing musical journey!  

@mintakax 

I am in Colorado also and you are welcome to come over and listen to my Rockport Avior ii speakers. Rockport speakers are phenomenal! I drive them with a Boulder 866 integrated. My system is listed here. Good luck in your search ! 

Try out some Fisher & Fisher 770’s from OCD Mikie. Very musical. 

Hard to imagine to upgrade from Magico, maybe "different"?

OP - see you at AXPONA? It would be a great choice to help you decide.

I’m a Magico fan, but the A3 seemed sonically lightweight.  The A5 is the next logical step upwards.

Sonus Faber is a more musical speaker, so it really depends on the OPs sonic preference.  

JBL L300 might be the speaker for you check CRAIGLIST

I would throw Vivid Audio into the ring.  All of their models have transparency, detail, neutrality, excellent bass, and oh...so much life.  Fall in love with your music again!

T+A speakers

I heard the T+A speakers in NYC, once. They were pretty good sounding.

B

Take up @ronboco offer and listen to some Rockports… They may have some of their newer models at Axpona but they are all special. 

@mintakax 

I received your pm. My apologies for not being able to respond as I don’t have a payment method on file. We can communicate through this thread if you decide you would like to stop by for a listen. Which Listen up are you working with ? Boulder or Denver ? If it’s Boulder Andy Nizzoti is the person I dealt with for our home theatre. He is very knowledgeable and was a pleasure to work with. 
 

Ron 

Wow-- thanks again everyone. AFAIK, TMR doesn't do any auditioning at all, I've been there several times to drop off and pick up equipment. They are not a brick and mortar store.

I'll be home auditioning some SF Serafinos next week followed by Amatis, at least that's the plan so far. Actually we're going into Denver to hear the Serafinos and if we like them the next step will be a home audition. Amatis will come later in the month.  

@jimmy2615 I have spoken to Bliss Hifi, very knowledgeable guy, he recommended Vivid Kaya 90s which he will be showing at AXPONA. Turns out I have a conflict and cannot go.

@mintakax 

I would also recommend going to Soundings Fine Audio in the tech center area. Ask for Jess. I really enjoyed his helpful advice and no pressure sales. That’s where I bought my 2 channel system. They no longer carry Rockport speakers but they have Acora and Magico if you are interested in either of those. 

I won't say that the SF Serafinos were disappointing, but I will say that it was immediately obvious that they would not be an upgrade to the current A3 system. Neither my wife or I connected with them and I suspect that the "SF sound" is not for us. I could list some specific details, but dont feel that would be especially pertinent. 

We did spend a fair bit of time listening to a pair of KEF Blade One Metas.  For the past three months, my wife has been, at best indifferent, and at worst flat out "anti upgrading" our system. So, I was shocked to hear her say that she really like the sound and design of the Blades. I also gave them a big thumbs up.

They were in a highly treated room and I can't say how they will sound at home, but we are arranging a home demo. I am concerned that a home demo is a commitment to buying from the dealer as opposed to buying pre-owned. TMR currently has two pair of pre-owned Blade One Metas and Audiogon lists three. Is that a red flag?

@ronboco Funny you should mention Jess from Soundings. He is coming to our house in a few days to look at our system setup and room. Its a paid visit but I thought it would be helpful to have his expertise.

Did you find the SF Serafinos a bit to warm and maybe lacking some detail? If so you might try having a listen to some Franco Serblin speakers. 

Neither my wife or I connected with them and I suspect that the "SF sound" is not for us. I could list some specific details, but dont feel that would be especially pertinent. 

Oh I think that valuable info is very pertinent and would be very helpful/interesting to hear your thoughts and may well lead to some other good options to consider. 

I’m currently enjoying a T+A MP3000HV MK2 through a PA3100HV paired with Magico S5 and I think you’d be hard pushed to find better for the money.

its a spectacular paring - the warmish and very musical PA3100HV is magical with the highly transparent and resolving Magico S5.

Theres some amazing used deals for S5’s right in your budget. They’re quite spectacular.

@rsf507 ​​@soix -- Thanks. Compared to the A3s, the Serafinos seemed to have less midrange detail and also overall less focused (if that makes sense).  I played a track that is overly bright on my system and it was still overly bright through the SFs.  Vocals did seemed as good as the A3s, possible slightly better, but that may have been the room. I dont listen to many vocals so that wasn't something I cared about.

@leeagc --  Thanks, I'm sure that is very true, however I'm finding that I am very reluctant to spend a lot of $$ on pre-owned speakers that I can't return. There are no pre-owned S5s at TMR or at any local dealers that I am aware of.

Another vote for Rockports. 

Richard Vandersteen's speakers are polar opposites to Magico and worthy of consideration. Also Volti Audio which use waveguides/horns and sound full and lively. Their sensitivity is in the upper 90's dB/oct.

You mention owning a pair of REL S/510 subwoofers. These  unfortunately do not have variable phase adjustment, only phase flip which makes it difficult to integrate with your main speakers. 

Variable phase allows for positioning the subs where you would like them to be and not where their limited phase choice demands.

@mintakax 

Nice! Tell Jess I said hello! Let us know which speakers you decided to get. 

@lemonhaze  I dont have very much leeway in the subs placement, only where they point. I find the flip phase adjustment to be very limiting. In my case I can hardly hear the difference between the 0 and 180 phases. Another complaint I have is there are no markings on the crossover or volume dials. There are tactile clicks (detents) but they are not very distinct. On the plus side, the subs sound great and I'm confident that I have them dialed in as best as possible. The volume and crossover knobs are just a couple of clicks turned up.

 @deep_333  -- No need to say again your feelings about the Rels.

@ronboco -- Will do on both counts!

...AXPONA. Turns out I have a conflict and cannot go....

Bummer - I find audio shows invaluable in helping me find my speaker.  After going to several audio shows and brick and mortars, the brands that consistently resonated with me were Magico and YG. I went to AXPONA 2022 to demo the A5 and Rockport Atrias, but room conditions were limiting performance.  I ended up purchasing the AXPONA Vimberg Mino D demo speakers at a great price.

FYI - it seems common that vendors give discounts at audio shows, including the demo gear