sorry you ran into this
my view is that technically seller is correct... his ad did not state grilles were included, they were not shown nor mentioned in his ad
grilles on older speakers always an issue... problem with old linns, spendors epos etc etc tabs break etc etc over time they are gone :(
try rega’s us distributor or write them in uk maybe you get lucky |
Since he didn't lie, you don't have recourse; and in the end, it was your responsibility to ask before you made the purchase. Hopefully Rega can help you. |
The guy who sold them to you is technically a douche |
Since the speakers originally had grills when new, it should have been stated in the ad that grills were not included.. Many of us do not use the grill, so it’s not uncommon to see speakers without grillsIt may have been an innocent mistake on his part. But it was his error, not yours. Had it been stated in the ad and you missed it then it would have been yours.
Btw, did the ad say that only what is pictured is included? If not then it's his fault again |
raysmtb1
Good stuff, sir. Lol. |
In what condition were the speakers rated?
Missing parts should drop the rating, wrong assumption from your side.
G |
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“Btw, did the ad say that only what is pictured is included? If not then it's his fault again”
No, this was not stated. |
IMO, best practice: anything that was originally included by manufacturer and is not present at resale should be explicitly mentioned.
That said, the grills were not pictured, and seller did not actively mislead, so he's got a case; I doubt what happened rises to the level of fraudulent misrepresentation.
(A friend of mine one sold a very old BMW 5 series, and the frame broke the next day. In small claims court, the judge ruled that to get relief, the buyer would have to show that he was *prevented* from inspecting the frame.)
Perhaps a fair solution would be for seller to offer some consideration towards new grills (50%?), so everybody could walk away feeling reasonably whole.
I'm optimistic about such a concession, though, esp. since the cost of replacement grills might be extortionate,
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“Perhaps a fair solution would be for seller to offer some consideration towards new grills (50%?), so everybody could walk away feeling reasonably whole.
I'm optimistic about such a concession, though, esp. since the cost of replacement grills might be extortionate”
The seller has pretty much said “too bad” and moved on. I don’t think I’ve ever left negative feedback over the past 22 years, but this is the first time I’ve considered it. Don’t know if it’s worth the trouble at this point. While I agree that there were no pics of the front grilles (the side grilles are present) in the ad, I feel it was sneaky, at best, not to mention that they were missing. The title of the ad referenced upgraded tweeters, so I thought the grille-less pics were meant to highlight that. The whole point of feedback is to warn future buyers...
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Live and learn. The fact that he stated that the tweeters had been “upgraded” should have been an obvious clue for you to be particularly cautious and inquisitive. You were not deceived. You, as the buyer of a used product, should have been more careful if the grills were that important to you. Move on, enjoy your speakers and don’t let this sour your listening. So, how do they sound? |
@mcp
Do you think you met your obligations as a responsible buyer; did you ask questions?
If you had left negative feedback, what would that have been?
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Your wrong speakers sound better with no grills get over it and enjoy. |
@mcp , You can easily make your own grills if you do not want to look at drivers. Use 1/4" plywood (Home Depot) spray painted flat black cover with grill cloth (Parts Express) and tack on with Velcro. The whole business might cost you $50 if that. |
I've decided to move on. Like most things in life, there is gray area. The seller should have disclosed the missing grilles (especially since he is now telling me he recently contacted the Rega distributor about replacing the grilles), but I should have questioned it.
As for how they sound, I don't know! UPS only delivered one box so far, even though they were shipped together. We'll see if the other one shows up today. |
That's too bad, mcp. Given that there are some shades of grey here, I'd probably not want to get into a hassle about negative feedback, even though the seller did not particularly distinguish themselves.
I personally prefer no grills (though a rowdy Leonberger pup forces them on me at the moment), but mijostyn's suggestion is spot on, if you like them: a manageable DIY project.
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The sellers "fault" is his lack of awareness anyone purchasing his speakers may assume grills are expected.
His reasoning "what you see is what you get" unfortunately is correct.
I would have asked before hitting the buy now button. Buyers responsibility to ask everything before purchasing and make no assumptions.
Time to go to Home Depot as mijostyn suggests, if you must have grills. |
Strikes me as someone doing something while driving that is discourteous but not illegal. My course of action would be determined on his reaction. If it showed a genuine lack of thought and remorse for not telling you, I would let him off the hook. If he was being legalistic, I would give him grief and a bad review. It should have been mentioned in the description. Minus one star no matter what.
Also, like someone said... upgraded tweeters... that is a cause for alarm. |
@ghdprentice
Bad reviews cut both ways; the seller also has the right give the buyer a bad review for failing to ask questions and--admittedly--buying on (false) assumption.
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Should had sold with the grill that originally comes with the Speaker from the Manufactured unless the Seller stated on the ads, period!. |
When I sell anything I am very specific about what is being offered. If I was listing those speakers I would have specifically said they come without the grills. In your situation, I think you’re out of luck and I would contact a Rega dealer to see if you can get the grills, since they are important to you |
Yes, The seller should have been more specific about what was being offered. And yes the op should have asked the question. The op did right by dropping thoughts regarding negative feedback and moved on. Lessons learned here. |
Seller should have stated "grills not included".
Bottom line. |
I see points on both sides but, all things considered, I'm more inclined to give the seller the benefit of the doubt and, personally, would not leave negative feedback. |
It's on the seller to provide an accurate description of the item for sale.
If the buyer had known beforehand from the sellers description of a lack of all parts, there could have been a negotiation.
Feedback: I'd note that the seller wasn't forthcoming in his written description and leave positive feedback with that caveat. |
As the buyer of used goods, it is up to you to ask what you are buying especially when you cannot inspect the equipment I have learned that when I purchased Alon speakers where the seller said the woofers were the Alnico models. Years later when I needed to re-foam the surrounds, is when I found out that they were not - a $1600 option.
Live and learn. You won't buy a used car that way would you or a home right? |
I think we all would believe that the grilles would be included with the speakers for sure this is another case old the old buyer beware syndrome in action again.
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I understand your idea that you’d wish the grills not being included had been stated. I’d bet he didn’t state the speaker wire, source or amp were included either. Sometime if you want to be sure if something is included we just have to ask. In the end the onus is on is to make sure we know what we are buying. We are the only ones who have our own best interest a heart. Hope you find your grills 😀 |
Should have been disclosed or clarified. No way to parse this.
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Artemus_5 & MCP are correct.Seller played smart ass.Now Ask for grill in whatever condition to send. say you will get it fixed and use.
2. Ask him to pay/refund 50% cost of New grill(even if you are not buying one)3. Warn other about HIM everywhere. Name & shame. down vote in the market place.
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Wow. I’ll definitely think twice before I buy anything here.
IMO it’s not buyer’s responsibility to ask if the unit is complete before purchase. It’s the seller’s responsibility to say if it’s not. And some people think you should give POSITIVE FEEDBACK???????????? Is that all positive feedback is worth on this site?
Thanks very much for the warning. |
You'd bet he didn't state the Speaker wire, source or amp were included either?. |
OP is dull.
1. If there were no pix or mention of grilles then there were no grilles.
Why didn't you ask before buying?
Duurrr.
2. The review probably stated they sound better without grilles, most do.
So you've got better than you expected, don't fuss. |
One thing that can be helpful: arrange a phone call with seller before any significant purchase. One still has to ask the right questions, but details are more likely to come out even if one doesn't. Also good to get a feel for things, before send a chunk of change into the void.
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Technically, the seller is right, however, he/she is NOT an upfront or transparent seller. I would’ve been majorly disappointed, both in the purchase, and with the seller. Sellers have a responsibility to be accurate and also clear, and my gut is this was a premeditated omission.
You can leave feedback that is fair and honest, while not being negative. I think the seller deserves feedback that encourages other buyers to inquire carefully before purchasing anything from him/her.
Personally, I think you have a responsibility to leave feedback like this. A community like ours needs accountability, which you can achieve without being nasty.
If the seller is lurking on this post, I hope you realize you still have a chance to make this right.
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reading all these replies, i do wonder... what was the seller feedback rating on a-gon? good? extensive?
that aspect can be telling, and to me, it is a bellweather as to the level of attention i pay when considering a used item to purchase |
'Caveat Emptor'... buyer beware.
'Caveat Venditor' let the seller beware is a modern version.
If the speakers were sold "As Is" then he was selling what you see in the photo with no implied warranty. It is what it is.
If NOT sold 'As is' he clearly created an 'omission of detail' that lessens the value of the represented product. It's not unreasonable to believe the speakers would come complete unless he otherwise stated such. If this is the case, then he should at least be called out for his deceptive intent and warn the community.
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Definitely seller fault so far as he didn’t mention on ad or description
if he’s not willing to negotiate the replacement price then contact PayPal or your credit card 💳 company to return it so next time he’s going to learn |
"Am I wrong to feel deceived?" Morally, most likely, no. Legally, based on information here and without seeing the original ad, yes. The default position of any used item being sold is "As Is" regardless of that being said in the ad or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_isIf a buyer makes assumptions about the item being sold, he is also assuming responsibility as well should he happen to be wrong. Some sellers will tell everything even down to the most insignificant detail. Whether it is intentional or just their nature, other sellers will say very little. Nevertheless a seller is only wrong legally if he lies or gives misleading information. |
The seller operated in bad faith.
Why? Because he knew that the grills
would be expected to be part of the deal
and he failed to mention that they were not.
Meantime the buyer violated the primary directive.
Ask about every detail in writing. Get pictures of
all surfaces not pictured. Assume nothing.
The fact that all you got taken for is a set of grills
is actually a lucky break for you.
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The seller did better than describe what you were buying, he showed you pictures. |
speaking from experience, not every buyer and seller here are noble characters, to say the least |
I think that the seller should have mentioned that the grills were not included. Indeed, it seems that practice and precedent on the ’Gon is that grills are included in the sale unless specifically excluded. |
Not entirely surprised
I've noticed in the last few years many speaker makers now offer grills as a billable option and not included as a feature
My initial reaction was this was sort of price gouging the customer to help increase revenue
Since I no longer have young children in the household, I typically park the grills in the corner and prefer to listen without them
My current thinking is pleased that the grills are an option and allows the speaker maker to charge me only for what I use
I've seen the cost for grills for towers range from $70-150 or approx 7% of the overall cost of a $2000 set of speakers
I like the idea of only be charged for what I use, like going the way of the ashtray in a new car. Why should a nonsmoker have a cost included for something they do not use, while the smoker still has the option to add an ashtray. Only the person that uses the part, pays to do so
That's a win-win imho |
Your question is reasonable and some of the responses here are mean. You don't deserve that, OP. Amazing how even the most innocuous post can provide an opportunity for snark.
I think the seller could have been more forthright but that you don't have much reason to complain. If it were me, I might have put in a good rating, not the top one, and say something like (assuming it's all true),
"Speakers worked perfectly and were shipped on time and safely. Seller did not clearly disclose that grills would not be included and this is the reason I've left a less than top rating."
This would explain your rating, give credit where it's due, and yet warn other purchasers that this seller may need some coaxing to disclose all pertinent information. You may save a future buyer some headache or even some money. |
excellent reply @hilde45 - balanced, practical, classy |
@jjss49 Thanks. Aren’t we all tired of meanness by now? Let’s give civility a try -- stop propping up our egos with put-downs. (I mean, 7th grade was a long time ago, right?) |
You indicated that UPS delivered only one speaker.
The real kick in the ass will be is the other speaker never shows up. |
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