New member, first post, and newbie in terms of diving into the world of nice things. This world is insane! I've already been spiraling for a few months researching what to buy, AB'ing countless speakers and amps. I now own a McIntosh MA9000 that's driving my new Focal Sopra N2s via Kimber 12VS. My "dilemma" is with the lack of BASS. I demoed the N2s, so I know it's possible, but absent in my home. I have to use the tone controls (this is where you tear me apart) to bump the low end. I do not know if it's my room, lack of bass traps, or equipment, but I'm failing to get down a little lower without tone adjustments. I stream Tidal Masters to my wired Bluesound NODE 2i (optical to the MA9000 dac). My room is 11'x20.5' with a low, 7.5' ceiling. I have tried as many speaker positions as possible with little change. I already know I need to eliminate room echo in the center of the room and have been researching various acoustic treatments. I feel like I'm off to a good start, but now stuck, not totally satisfied. Yes, it's the best I've ever owned and mind-blowing amazing, emotional, etc, but just short of perfect for me. In tracks where I expect a punch, I get an unmoving transition... Can I get "there" with different wire? Should I consider a sub? Why do folks on this site use two subs? Do I need to hire someone to properly sound-treat the room? Is my room a lost cause for what I own? Reaching out because I'm stuck, afraid to waste money chasing dead ends. My budget is thin after the McIntosh and Focals. Any help would be so appreciated! I hope to learn, grow and pay it forward some day. Thank you.
Per my last post, looks like I should ditch the node 2i and if I upgrade my McIntosh DAC to version 2, what would folks recommend for a streamer to get full resolution? Should I pass on the Mc DAC upgrade ($1k) and go another route? Streaming is currently my only option, but I was hoping not to have to chase DACs for the rest of my life at a premium.
No further updates on my room, other than I'm happy using the 4ohm taps and tone controls (for now). Busy weekend ahead for moving everything out and possibly painting the walls. Fun times!
Interesting information on the different taps. Looking at the impedance graph of the Sopra 2 it looks like the 4ohm tap would be the right one. You want to match the lowest point of the impedance to the tap and the Sopra dips to 3.7-ish around 100hz. Going to the 2ohm tap will probably not change the tonal balance (because it is lower than the speakers so it will not add gain to higher impedance sections of the speaker) but it will reduce your power. I would guess by about 1/3rd. This is because you already have enough current and the 2ohm tap will reduce the voltage.
But really the amp is powerful and runs cool so using the”wrong” tap will not hurt anything if it sounds good to you.
If you look at stereophile’s measurements of the MC462 (link below) you can get some in-site as to why you want to match the lowest impedance. It will reduce the distortion and still maintain the full 300 watt output. For most speakers the 4ohm tap is the right one. “Figs. 6–9 indicate that distortion is extremely low, lying below the noise floor at powers below 30W or so. I therefore plotted how the THD+N changed with frequency from the 8 ohm output at a level of 28.3V, equivalent to 100W into 8 ohms and 200W into 4 ohms, where I could be sure I was looking at distortion rather than noise. The result (fig.10) reveals that the THD into 8 ohms (blue and red traces) and 4 ohms (cyan, magenta) rises above 1kHz, but still remains below 0.007%. I haven't shown the THD+N trace into 2 ohms from this output, because it was >2% in the midrange and treble and >3% in the bass at 28.3V, which is equivalent to 400W into 2 ohms. The moral: Match the MC462's nominal output to the lowest impedance magnitude of the loudspeaker used.”
As for the the popping sound it could have been a driver bottoming out if it was super loud with deep bass. It probably will not break a well designed driver but it will be uneasy for sure.
If it was power related the Mac’s power guard lights would have come on (lights up orange like startup) and cuts the power.
MQA has two different “levels” (they call it unfolds) HALF UNFOLD (Software only - 24/96), and FULL UNFOLD (Software and Hardware - 24/192)
MQA requires communication (ie two way) with the DAC for FULL UNFOLD
If it (MQA) doesn’t know what the DAC is you can only get HALF UNFOLD (software only)
Via digital (Optical or COAX) there is no two way communication so you can only get HALF UNFOLD as the BluOS software will unfold the first half, but doesn’t know what DAC is connected
You can turn off the BluOS (software) unfold via the app for zero unfolding, and pass the raw data to the DAC - This the best option if you have an MQA certified DAC, this will let the DAC do all the work, otherwise you’ll only get the first half
If you do not have an MQA DAC, you should use the Analogue outputs…. at least for MQA, but since the NODE outputs both digital and analogue at the same time you can use a non-MQA DAC for everything except MQA content (if you want and the DAC is good enough to keep it in the system)
SO…
Analogue out = FULL MQA
Digital Out
Non MQA DAC = HALF MQA via digital
MQA DAC = FULL MQA (if you turn of the BluOS first unfold)
@steve59 I had a friend ask me about trying them on one of the long walls as well, almost the same time you posted. Doing so was not an option when I started this this post but is now that the room will only serve the purpose of listening. The problem is that the width is only 11'. Need seating for 4 people on the other side, but maybe it will sound good off center? Definitely going to try it once the room is cleared and I'm hearing this system with a fully carpeted (berber) floor that's been hidden for a long time.
@james633 Another update - After a few more hours swapping taps (almost wrote "playing taps", but some might have taken that literally). I am now liking the 8ohm better at low volumes (~25% or lower) and 4ohm above that. The 8 sounds more dynamic at lower volumes, but too dynamic / harsh at higher volumes ONLY when compared to 4ohm. The 4 is so smooth at higher volumes. I could live with the 4 full time and may try the 2ohm when I want to push things further.
This chase is fun. Thanks again to everyone! I am humbled by the number of you who have taken time to post.
A local dealer puts his speakers on the long wall with them nearly 1/2 way to the listening seat well away from the sidewalls and gets prodigious bass from any speaker, including focal’s. It goes against the idea that getting the rear facing port reflective wall support to increase bass, but they’re on to something because the can get that elusive ‘room lock’ bass from bookshelves without subs. If I can’t replicate their results in my room then once I’m done decorating I’m going to hire them for a day.
How much would you spend on a component to get the showroom sound you bought your speakers for? Hire some who knows what they’re doing(not me) to help you.
@james633 and @michaeldunleavy Apologies and please, please bear with me. I revisited testing the 4 and 2ohm taps and need to roll back my findings. First, I wrote 6 and 2 in my last post when I meant 4 and 2, ugh. Second, while the "volume" does seem to drop a tad, it may not be loudness that is dropping, but what I'm hearing may be a smoothing of the track. I am now finding I like 4ohm better than 8. I spent an hour listening to the first minute of Fade to Black on each tap...over and over. 8ohm seems a bit louder, but also a bit harsher... and I do think the bass response is better dipping below 8. Again, I am stunned and have learned I need to run these tests a bit longer than a quick listen / judgment. 4ohm now seems more true, if this statement makes sense, and easier on my ears. Wanted this test out to you asap and I will continue to play with it / give it more time. I love progress.
Hey @ozzy62 I messed up and the rack does not fit the McIntosh. Appears I looked at other VTI offerings and noted the good spacing, but did not double check my final selection. Maybe it's meant to be. Suppose I better get used to more unboxing and re-boxing during this venture / hobby / addiction. lol Seems it's most of what I've been doing!
I swear the next thing I'm going to learn is that my room needs an ideal oxygen to nitrogen ratio that's not the same as outdoors... I am still floored by switching the power cable and what transpired. My jaw is sore from smacking the floor so many times this month!
Good Morning! My sister in law loves music and she was over for dinner last night. My wife spilled the beans regarding my endeavor and the night turned into a 3 hour listening session with my sister in law as the DJ. I've quickly learned that a system like this can invoke jaw drops, big smiles, shock and awe in people who have lived their lives thinking all systems were the same. This is where the approval to instead turn this room into a listening room / lounge came from. To see these two women seem to discover music for the first time and jump track to track to hear all their favorites was something to behold. Never thought my purchases would have such a profound impact on others, especially my wife.
**One note. I pushed the system a bit and dialed in 70%. Halfway through the track there was a quick pop from the right speaker. Only happened once and it took me what seemed an eternity to grab the remote and drop the volume. Both ladies asked about the pop. I was stunned and never thought it would happen with this level of equipment. The questions to all of you: Can this happen with any system regardless of price? Did I do something wrong? The music was amazing, effortless and powerful. It was easy to listen to - zero fatigue. Everything sounds perfect despite the pop, so I'm praying no damage was done? The Mc's power guard lights were gently flickering during the track so I know the draw was significant. Full disclosure - it's only a 15 amp circuit for this room, which is not shared by any other room. Thinking I may want to consider a dedicated 20 amp tap? Existing wires may support a 20 amp breaker. Going to check today. If yes, should I replace the 15 with the 20? I have a 20 on hand.
I think someone asked about my music tastes? I like everything that moves me and I can find several artists that accomplish this in almost every flavor, save for speed \ death metal (if I have those terms correct). This is what I liked most about the Sopras - they handled everything well for my ear - something the competition in this range did not, and I can name a few dozen.
@tomic601 I think you are asking if I have the positive and negative reversed? I do not. I am super careful and the connections are correct. I am far from perfect and was so nervous to check lol. @mtbiker29 I am only able to upload one photo, which I just did of the back of the Mc / Kimber connects. I bought the wire new last Wednesday from Safe and Sound. It is Kimber 12VS Base series. I have been eyeing Silversmith Audio Fideliums. The Kimbers are 9' because the 9' was sold out and I wanted some placement flexibility, however I am happy with their current placement and could cut back to 6'.
As for my virtual room - @mtbiker29 I see you have two photos, a description and equipment list. Is the same available to all of us? I was only able to upload a single photo.
@james633 It's not that it was more open - I left the volume at 37 and sound level seemed to be cut in half going from 8 to 6 and again from 6 to 2. It was like switching from my Sopras to a clock radio - exaggerated, but that significant. Maybe I should have juiced the 6 and 2 to see what would happen?
Welcome to the forum. You have gotten some good ( and some not so good) advice so far. I won't reiterate what's been said but I would recommend dumping the VTI rack. I had one briefly and I couldn't believe how much it negatively affected the sound of my system. It rings like a bell and added an unpleasant "sheen" to the music. I got rid of it pretty quick and went with a Rigid Rack from Butcher Block Acoustics.
At your level, everything makes a difference. And as others have commented, if something tips up the treble response, the result is a sense of diminished bass response. Don't rule out the solution to your problem being something simple that doesn't immediately seem plausible.
I've had the kanta for awhile now and findings are such; Utilized the sumiko speaker setup to get bass dialed in, once done, the extension is marvelous. Utilized the 4ohm taps on amp. I remember someone telling me that focal was disingenuous with it's 8ohm rating.
Holy cow! Proper phase connections. Nobody (including myself) ever mentioned that...until now. The very first potential problem to look for when there is an absence of bass is proper polarity, or, phase connectivity. And it took this long. @tomic601 good for you to advise on this to the OP.
Where did you get the Kimber? Are they biwire ? Put some photos of those connectors ( amp and speaker and especially bi-wire ) in your virtual system page.
life is a freaking tone control, smoke Em if ya got em until sorted out…,
The right tap is the one you like best. The impedance curve of the Sopra is pretty wild (but most modern speakers are) so no tap is 100% the best. You can gleam some insight into the Sopra 2 by looking at the impedance curve vs frequency (link blow) Each lower tap is a different contact point in the auto transformer output and as you go lower you cut voltage and bring up the current. It is best to match the load but when the load swings like crazy it can’t really be matched.
the short version is if you run the 2 ohm tap you get more power where the impedance is low but less power where it is high. With the Sopra being all over the place I am not sure it matters what you choose. But really don’t over think it. If it sounded more open on the 8 ohm tap just use it. The Mac has enough power to plow through it anyway. On a side note I think crazy impedance curves are why large powerful amplifiers sound better. Not because you need the power (again only using 4-5 watts) but the big amps just freight train right through these impedance curves. Where lower powered amps can really get tripped up over them and get hot and compress. https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1445:nrc-meas...
@izjjzi It seems that you have a wonderful opportunity to develop a dedicated room for high fidelity, with your wife's approval, maybe even her suggestion. What an awesome and ideal situation you have. From here, if I may suggest, put some good attention to this and you will reap fantastic rewards of audio satisfaction. Seek all of the information that you possibly can, getting educated and making good choices through the process.
You are a lucky man. You have some great product. Enjoy it in good health.
Tapping the 4, followed by 2 omh destroyed fidelity. It was progressively like cutting the volume, stage, everything in half with each step. 8 omh it is, but did I do something wrong?
Confirmed, the best I get is 96 kHz from my Node via optical to the Mc DAC.
Speaker placement. Did not make a difference, save for the suggested 1’ from the back wall, and this was the only placement with some improvement. Not sure I like it and it still did not get me "there". Of note is that I did hear the desired result if I stood on center, about 3’ from the front line. In fact, this was true with every placement. The end result is that no position resulted in a material difference. I could not get what I wanted unless I was positioned close to the front of them.
This room is not a converted garage. It’s a first floor, cement, berber rug, and 3/4" rubber matted floor. It doubles as a workout room. Ashamed to say this, but it’s what I have to work with at the moment. Other rooms are smaller, but I may end up moving the system.
@audiorusty I have to bump the 25 3/4th turn from neutral and the 50, 1/4 turn. I leave all other dials as-is.
My VTI rack does not fit my MA9000. Not happy. It’s on me. I needed 10" or better and the rack has a 9" clearance. Down on myself for making this mistake!
Next steps:
Purchase an area rug ASAP!
Wall and ceiling treatments - just have no clue where to diffuse vs adsorb.
In short, remove the echo, reflections and establish a new baseline.
Research subs. There is a terrific, active post on this site regarding musical subs. It leaves me nervous on what to pursue.
I have a old, Boston Acoustics sub (PV800) in my living room. I’m going to bring it down and see what happens.
I will wait for the room to be treated and revisit. Targeting the end of this week. There is nothing else I can do at this time.
Side note: The 4 hours I just spent was still amazing in terms of the best sound I’ve owned to-date. I love this system! I just know it can be a bit fuller and have reach the heights I know are possible.
Addendum: My wife agreed to move the gym, rubber flooring, etc. to a another room and turn this room into a lounge! Progress!
I have Sopra 2 and for the size they do indeed don’t go as low as you would think they could. I have 200hz suck as well as a dip in 80, as well as 40. Very common. I did as someone else’s suggested. I use Roon and it’s DSP and merged in my sub. Ultra 13 from SVS with the upgraded amp. Together they mesh very well and sub disappears with the DSP. MiniDSP is another sub too but I don’t have any experience with it. Love my set up now.
I wonder what a pair of REL S2's would do to your sound? I added a pair of these and it really made a difference. You have to dial them in so they don't stand out from your main speakers. If done correctly, they will act more like additional larger size woofers.
I would be curious to know what kinds of music you enjoy listening to.
I do like the tweeters and the mid voicing of Focal's, but I do think they could use a little more base. That is why I mentioned the REL Subwoofers. Their high level connection is really a clever way to integrate a subwoofer with tower speakers.
my money is on getting a solid state amp that mates properly with the sopra low impedance, and addressing placement and less than ideal room effects
maybe break in if the speakers are brand new
then you will have a better chance at the best bass that can be gotten from the sopras
first para of what i said above is incorrect... now that i realize the op’s macintosh is a high power solid state unit... that amp shoud drive the sopra’s just fine
gotta be the room and speaker/room coupling - sopra may be somewhat bright up top, but it is not significantly lacking in bass
OP, Don't do anything until you get your room dialed in. Exhibit A: You had no carpet in front of hard surface floors? No wonder you were underwhelmed. I wanted to cry when I was setting up my system in my new home, until my wife accidentally bought a large pile wool rug. It went a long way towards cleaning things up.
I suggested loading a picture of your "virtual system" (really just a pic attached to your profile) as we would have picked up on that right away and saved you a few steps. Go to upper right where your username is and click on it. Click on my name and you'll see mine as an example.
Are you achieving satisfactory results when you use your tone controls? If you are I would stop and enjoy your system. You should not care what others think, it is your system for your enjoyment, not anyone else.
In tracks where I expect a punch.
Low end impact is a tall order for a couple of 7” woofers.
Should I consider a sub?
Maybe. What kind of music do you listen to. If you like rock or electronic and maybe even modern day country, a sub can be of substantial benefit. If you listen to other genres than maybe not so much.
Beware; while properly integrating subs into a system can bring great joy and satisfaction, improperly integrating a sub can bring great headaches and frustration.
Keep in mind that if you are pressurizing your room to 80 db SPL at 1K Hz you will need to pressurize the room to approximately 115 db SPL at 40 Hz in order to have 40 Hz sound equally as loud as 1K Hz (per ISO standard 226:2003, equal loudness curve) Also keep in mind that with most rock music it is desired to have 40 and 50 Hz sound louder than 1K Hz.
Lastly, it is not always a lack of bass that is the problem but an overabundance of mid range. You probably are getting some room gain in your mid range frequency band. On your MA9000 you might try and bump up the 50 Hz, dial the 100 Hz back a tad and the 1K and 2.5K Hz controls back a bit more, or a lot if need be, and see how that sounds to you.
Really the Mac is fine, more than fine. The output transformers don’t work like a tube amp (opposite actually) In tube amps the transformers are used to couple the low impedance of the speaker to high impedance tubes. In Mac solid state amps the transformers are use to reduce the load and let the amp put out the same wattage regardless of load.
if you end up with subs it sounds like your Mac has a built in highpass which will open up your sub options. There might be amps that give you more bass impact (pass labs probably) but bass smoothness and depth is a function of the room and speaker interaction. Focal’s can get a little edgy in the upper mids and highs and Macs get a little smooth in the upper mids and highs. They are a near perfect match imo.
Correction @birdfan - I think you meant to write NOT on subwoofer mode, which now makes more sense to me, so my #1 above will not be something I test. The node defaults to subwoofer mode off and I will leave it off.
@curiousjim The seller demoed them to me. I did not ask or notice anything that went into the output. I was there to pick them up. The only thing I noted was the nice area rug, high ceiling and I would guess placement was about 1/5 (room x,y) from the corners.
@sandthemall as you can see from above, your 1/5 comment is what I observed with the previous owner. And...
@Everyone - I failed to mention that the floors are reflective without any rug at this time. I have a cheap, Persian style rug I can use and will include this as a test. I have already been shopping for something I can place as needed and roll-up remove as needed. Suggestions welcome (shag vs other vs brand) would like to do this on the cheap.
I am blown away by the number of responses. THANK YOU, everyone for your thoughtful input. You have given me a number of things to ponder and try. More detail and updates:
Only the speaker and power cables are new. The MA9000 was a store demo and was told might be "broken in". The Sopras are gently used and I'm not sure if they have enough hours or were even played at volume to be broken-in.
I read bass from towers can cancel each other out and bass traps can solve for such. It's why I mentioned possible trying traps. Based on your feedback, I now may only need them if I go the subs route.
The only wall backing the Sopras is not flat. There is a 6.5" offset, which isn't on center. It is just over 6' from the left side. So if the Sopras are parallel, the left one will have an extra 6.5" behind it. The ocd in me is really bothered by this. I would love to know why it exists / was built this way!
I know there is nothing wrong with tone controls but I "feel" like spending this kind of money should grant you results that do not need tone assistance. Feels wrong writing this, but I want to be able to demo this system to my cousin and brother without having them comment on the fact I need to use them, because they will!
My VDI rack arrived yesterday and I can't way to set it up. Going to do so first before any suggested testing. :)
What is my "virtual system"? Happy to do so if I can get some guidance?
I did not hear the Sopras with the Mc, a risk, I know, but I did read reviews with the same MA9000 and Sorpras as well as other media that reported Mc and N2s were a good match. So far I am blown-away save for that elusive low end that led to this post.
This will not be my last home. My next will either be built to suit or will have an "ideal" room for my music.
My to-do list, in order, AND I am not going to stack advice. I plan on trying each from my current baseline settings and with the tone controls off on the Mc.
@birdfan Set my NODE to subwoofer mode, which I did but cannot yet test the result. This setting reveals a crossover slider with no value but appears to be 1/4 up from 40Hz to a max of 200Hz
I have seen my Mc display 96kHz(?... it was 96 something...) from my NODE playing Tidal masters, but no better. Should I return it? What values should I see displayed?
@erik_squires \Play the same track from the 8, 4 and 2omh taps. Can't wait to try this.
@ozzy and @mtrot Move the Sopras 1' from the back wall. This is appealing as this room needs to be functional for things other than listening so it would be ideal if I don't have to place them well into the space.
@ozzy and @mtrot Move the Sopras 1/3 into the room ~7'. Part of me hopes this does not work. My wife will strangle me. Yet, if it works it will be terrific data.
@onhwy61 and @speakermaster Will look into an SPL meter / software, etc. My brother works for a commercial AV company and may have access to a good one.
@james633 very helpful if I go the sub route.
Don't know why I could not @ some of you, but again, thank you everyone for your responses! I have a fun afternoon ahead of me. I will report back on each experiment in a detailed summary.
There's probably a place in your room where the bass will be fall into line. Exploit the room.
I've had similar problems. A rough formula for me was the 1/5th rule. If you start there, you can make adjustments over time and start to lock the speaker location.
With regard to speaker position, consider this to be the vertical centerline of the tweeter at the front baffle. Divide the room in 5ths. Place speakers 1/5th from backwall and side walls.
Also eliminate any hard and glossy elements in the room. If you have framed pictures with glazing move those to another room. If you have hardwood floors, thick Persian rugs with requisite thick felt under pad really helps. A large rug under the speakers really helps.
Work on first reflections first...this is what creates the smear that kills focus and sharpness of the sonic image.
Something to think about. You said you demoed the Sopra’s. What’s different with your setup and the setup where you demoed them? Placement? isolation feet, did the use the spikes that came with the speakers or someone’s else’s? Where was all the furniture in the room? What music did they play and what streamer did they use.
You're getting a lot of good info here. If they haven't broken in yet, it will take some time to develop. My Sopra 2's have finally locked in. Positioning is important too and I find myself repositioning them every so often to check myself as well as make sure I'm optimizing them.
A. Give it time B. Use the 2ohm tap C. Buy a pair of REL s/812 and rock the foundation
Also, and im not sure about this… i dont think you can get tidal masters (mqa) from an external dac with a bluesound. Maybe buy a streamer(no dac) with usb out so you can go usb into the ma9000 and take full advantage of its dac. Also, cancel tidal and get qobuz. It has actually uncompressed music (no mqa) and in my opinion sounds better.
My advice is to wait while your new system beds in. For new speakers experienced hi-fi reviewers use to place speakers baffle to baffle and run a cd player on repeat play for 48 hours before commencing serious auditioning. My new pre-amp took two months to bed in. As for your room, there is nothing you can do about height !! I have a similar ceiling height and have learned to live with it. Use of carpets/rugs/drapes and other soft furnishings strategically placed will probably do as much as expensive room treatments, but this is something you must assess for yourself. Best regards Steve.
Assuming the acoustic center of the Sopra 2 is 18” off the floor (guessing, two woofers + port) then a 7.5’ ceiling would make a dip at 47ish hertz but one you sum in all the other boundaries (floor, front wall, side wall, back wall) it will fill in fine.
The MA9000 is more than enough. Don’t let people tell you different. McIntosh is the red headed step child on this forum but their current line is excellent agents pretty much anything. The Mac is a great combo with Focal. The Sopras dips to 3 ohms at 100hz so try the 2 ohm tap. That amp will put out 300 watts at 2 ohms and you are only going to use 4-5 watts. The drive units in this focal will burst into smoke before that amp runs out of gas. For what it is worth I run a mc462 with speakers that are well into 2 ohms with good results.
Anyway the Sopra does not put out low bass without room gain. Just the way it is and most speakers are the same way. I am of the opinion that all but the largest (and I do mean largest) speakers need subs.
I would buy two subs and highpass them at 60hz (where the drivers take a dive and rely on the port). I have used JL subs with the focal electrica line before with good results.
A highpass crossover is the key to good integration. Just running them under your speakers without a highpass will result in poor integration most of the time. If you use something like a JL E112 there is a built in highpass. You would run the preamp into the sub then sub into the amp. In your case you would pull the cross bars on the back of your integrated amp and run the output from the #1 out to the sub and then run the sub back into the power amp input. You can then just adjust the crossover to where ever you want and the highpass and timing will be handled in the sub. There are a number of external crossovers too as most subs lack highpass crossovers. The Sopra 2s with good subs would compete with pretty much anything on the market within sane prices. Like others have said you can push your speakers toward the front wall. You need to be closer than 41” to not cancel bass below 80hz or more than 6.7’ out from the wall. Anywhere between those two boundaries there will be hills and valleys in the bass. I personally would pull the speakers out as far as possible and run subs at less than 41” from the front wall. This way each speaker can run with minimized room effects. Video on the subject. https://youtu.be/T10_MLGOBfc
Hey there, one thing to make sure of. Make sure your node 2i is t on “subwoofer” setting which is essentially a high pass filter which sends all the low frequencies to a sub. You probably don’t have this mistake but I made a month ago and was very frustrated
IMO as I have not look at the specs - the MC just cannot push the bass with these speakers. When you heard the speakers with the bass response you preferred, what was driving them? If you heard them with the Mc they I am completely wrong. But if not then try another amp to see what you find.
You could measure the problem areas of your room speaker match with a test cd and an spl meter to find the best location or you could buy the subwoofers to augment the low bass, but each is a compromise because it is usually the power range that is lacking and that is usually higher than the subs go, so i would say measure and treat, and then add subs if needed at that time.
If your speakers are brand new, you may find that the woofer suspension needs to some playing time to loosen up to achieve their expected bass response. If they have plenty of hours already, subs are an option.
@izjjzi, you have a great foundation don't change or spend money on any thing other than room treatments. Also don't be ashamed of tone controls....good to see them making their way back into some great gear.
Can you put a pic in your "virtual system" so we can see what we're working with? This site really needs an update from the 1990's, but that's another story.
izjjzi, I own the Sopra 2’s. They don’t have subwoofer type bass but they do bass pretty well. It may be true about the low impedance that was mentioned, but I don’t think it is much different than most other speakers.
Placing the speakers closer to the back wall will increase the bass but it will be lousy sounding bass.
Try to bring the front panel of the speaker 1/3 out into the room. (about 7’ based on your measurements). And sit another 7 feet back from the speakers, which leaves approx. 7’ behind you.
Then try moving the speakers from the side walls inward to see if you can lock in the bass.
Again, you should get very satisfying bass this way but if you want more or deeper bass, subs may be the way to go. 2 subs are generally better than one because it moves the bass more evenly throughout the room.
One easy thing to do is play something with deep bass and just walk around the room and listen to the bass in all parts of the room. My family room system has a bass null right where the sofa has to be. If I stand at the back or sides of the listening area, there is all kinds of bass. There is not much I can do about it with respect to the front main speakers, as I can't really bring them out into the room, move them much closer to the front wall, or move them left or right. Subs are the only solution, but I'm not skilled with subs.
The Sopras, like a lot of Focal speakers, have a low impedance of 3 Ohms at 100 Hz. What’s also interesting is just how quickly the frequency response rolls off below this number. The measured output is that of a satellite, plus a challenging impedance that troubles some tube and transformer coupled amps, like yours.
So, what can you do?
These speakers need close rear wall reinforcement. Around 1’ away from the rear would be great. The MA 6000 has parametric tone controls. I’m not sure how narrow they are but you can turn up the lowest control and turn down the top.
If you have a choice, use the lowest ohm taps on the output. So, pick 4 Ohms instead of 8.
In terms of room control, bass traps reduce and de-energize room modes. They are great when you have modes which prevent you from turning the speaekers up, or are impossible to fix with EQ. Based on what I think is going on, especially with your echo, you need to focus on the mid to treble. Control that, which will lower this, and the bass can emerge, like an old galleon emerging from the ocean at low tide. After this is taken care of you can revisit the bass traps.
I also agree with the comment that you should consider measuring your problem first, as it will make things go a lot more quickly and make changes with precision instead of trial and error. I like OmniMic but Room EQ Wizard is free but still requires a calibrated microphone. It is possible you have an anti-mode, where the bass is depressed due to a resonance, but these are usually quite narrow. If you had an anti-mode, bass traps would be quite handy!
If you used Roon, you could use it for very fine grained EQ in the digital domain, and adust based on your measurements.
Congrats on your choices! I suggest you start by doing some simple measurements. You'll need an SPL meter, or SPL phone app and a source for test tones. Using a series of spaced bass tones measure the loudspeakers individually up close and at the listening position. This method will allow you to quickly determine which frequencies are missing. Try different loudspeaker and listening positions to see how the results change. Once you get a decent grip on these factors you can then best determine the means of correction. BTW, nothing is wrong with using tone controls.
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