Solid State Preamp to replace tube unit

Hey jimbones,

The  SPL Elector preamplifier is what you might really be what you are looking for. Based on price, quality of manufacturing, and most important performance. Take a look at my Stereo Times review on it for lots of information.

Teajay

Oooh, this could be a very fraught move. I can’t imagine going that direction. Consider Zesto, Audio Research or VAC. CJ is not a sound easily left behind.

I don’t believe you’ll be happy switching to a SS pre.  I like you use Class D amps in the summer and tubes the rest of the year.  I actually owned Pr.12’s for a number of years with a Pr. 16.  I tried going with a SS pre a few times but always found myself back to using a tube pre.  Right now, with my tube pre in for service (I know they can be a pain sometimes) I’m using a solid state pre with a tube amp.  The change is kind of like going from a tube amp to Class D just to give you a feel for what you could expect.  Just a suggestion, if you must have a SS pre why don’t you look for a Pr. 18.  They’re not plentiful but do come up occasionally and would keep the CJ house sound. Pass labs might also get you close.  Over the years I’ve actually tried both and while both were certainly listenable, they’re not something I’d want over the long haul.

even a used one........get Ayre

You might want to check out the Schiit Kara preamp. It's received a number of glowing reviews. I haven't personally tried this model but I've been very pleased with all the Schiit gear I've tried.  They do have a trial period for their gear with a 5% restocking fee on this model.

@stringreen the K x5emp? It seems there are multiple versions of this pre..

@marco1 ha ha thanks. I know what you mean. But I think since I wont actually part ways with the CJ, I can experiment with out going through withdrawal.

Jim.....I have the Ayre K 1xemp......I believe the K1 is the higher end than is the K5.    I've been loving this thing for many years (bought it new)....never a problem.   I'm using it with balanced cables have the phono pre installed...dead silent even with the volume high.   Recommended

I had a conrad-johnson PV-14L preamp. The best tubes were a little hard to find (Mullard M8080), but they lasted forever.  I upgraded to a Premier 17LS2, but it developed an issue and I returned it.

I went to a LTA MicroZOTL preamp.  It's not known be be overly warm sounding like the older c-j, so I was worried that I'd miss the warmth.  Don't miss it at all.  The LTA takes four tubes, but they last a long time.  The NOS Telefunken tubes that I like are a little pricey, but there are NOS Siemens tubes that are a close second for less money. 

get a Music Reference…. have it gone thru by a respected tech if needed, load it w RAM low noise tubes and ahhhhh. Modjeski famous for LONG tube life n sonics for a reason…. i sold a lot of CJ gear and owned a Premier 3….. so yea, i get the attraction….

The Ayre recommendation is certainly solid gear but it’s like pure water neutral and shines in XLR usage >>>>> power amp. ditto for more modern ARC using 6H30

Ive had a KX-R in my system long term evaluation and own a REF5se

Have fun

I have even a better suggestion, I think 🤔. Why don’t you opt for a recent model CJ pre? Something like the ET3 or better yet the ET3SE only uses one (1) tube in their line sections. Yes they do have a reputation for being hard on tubes but you don’t need NOS for something like the ET3 to sound really good. New EH are $25 - $30 bucks so you can afford to keep a few in reserve. I have a friend that runs an ET3 with his Pr.11. The system sounds really good and best of all it sounds like Conrad Johnson. No withdrawal needed😎.

I already have the ET5 which is higher in the line than the 3 ( I think) I am wondering if a Pass XP20 or XP22 is better than the ET5...

@jimbones  Did you ever try Philips Holland 7DJ8 / PCC88 tubes in the ET-5?  I bought a bunch of them for the 17LS2 (it takes four tubes).  I had read that they sound good and they last longer.  Tube Depot has them for $59.

I was bummed when I had to return the 17LS2, but in my opinion, the LTA sounds better. 

No I have a Reflector tube (not sure what the tube designation is, maybe it is a 7dj8?_) I just installed a 1980's era American made 6DJ8 no manufacturer name on it. Sounds good.......for now lol

If you use ROON try the digital balance control of ROON vs the analog of your next preamp. My Benchmark LA4 has a great Balance but not as good as the ROON setup. Though ROON only works for digital streaming.

Very easy - Coda Fet preamp , retail around $7500it is a solid state preamp I would buy it is almost tube like but with exceptional detail and realism.

great reviews, Call Mike at Audio Archon tell him Paul L sent you 

you can discuss in detail ,fair pricing Excellent service a true Great preamplifier by Any standard my brother owns that and about 5 others even more $$ preamps.

Audio is his $$$ playground 

I have Simaudio Moon P8 Preamp and W8 Amplifier for sale which sounds amazing but I’m selling pair together contact me if you are interested 

Jimbones,

Best of luck on the SS preamp search, but I can't offer any suggestions. I thought I liked them when I owned them, but then swapped in an Aric Audio Motherlode XL 6SN7 preamp.....I can't ever go back now.

Bigger question to me, is why are you blowing preamp tubes in an amazing preamp? I have never blown a preamp tube in any amp or preamp, in a dozen years over 5 devices.

Keep us up to date, I'm interested in what you find to your liking

I struggled with this for about 3 years.

I needed a preamp with balanced out to go between my Manley Snapper monoblocks and my Holo May KTE DAC.

Tried quite a few.

In the end I wound up with a Levinson 523.
Probably outside your budget even used, but it was also outside my budget when I started looking.

It meets your criteria including balance control on the remote, and it is a seriously fantastic piece of gear (better be for the price).

I got mine used at about 1/2 retail.

@vthokie83 Im not blowing the per se., they do get noisy. I only had one that was a bad failure.

Thanks for the clarification

I'm either VERY LUCKY or an anomaly.  I have 3 tube amps and 2 tube preamps (McIntosh MC-225 paired with an Audio Research SP17, a Dennis Had Inspire "Fire Bottle" 45 paired with a Dennis Had LP3.1, and a Reisong A10 EL34 Integrated).  The stock Reisong tubes were replaced in 2018 with NOS tubes, the Dennis Had gear has Emission Labs 45 tubes I installed in 2018, the ARC tubes are more than 10 years old (I bought it in 2020 from the original owner and he had receipts where he replaced the tubes in 2012) and the McIntosh has Westinghouse 7591 "Made For McIntosh" tubes that appear to be original based on my research (I bought it from the original owner in 2021 who bought it in 1963, my year of birth -- he said he had never replaced the tubes and the technician I had go over it said all tubes looked original, it had been in storage for 20 years).

Each system gets played several times a week, for an hour or two each session.  For those of you with far more knowledge than I have...what am I doing right??  I'm not complaining, far from it.  But how can the OP go through tubes as he said and I have Dorian Gray tubes??

+1 on the Coda 07x. Excellent sounding SS preamp. 

lordrootman,

why are you selling? The p8 is an absolutely phenomenal preamp I can understand selling the w8 because the 861 is so much better, It's going to be hard to beat the p8.

I have been using a preamp with a selectable tube gain section (Pro-Ject Pre Box RS2 Digital) with a ss class-D amp (NAD C298, which uses a Purify design). The combination has worked very well. The amplifier is rated 185W into 8 ohms.

I have been running tube gear for more than twenty years and never had a single tube go bad.  The tubes in my current linestage were of unknown age and usage before they went into my unit which I have owned for more than 15 years.  The amp I’ve had even longer and it too had old tubes installed when I got them.  My phonostage, which has tubes and a separate power supply, suffered the only “failure” I’ve ever had—a shelf fell on the power supply wiping out the twin 300B’s that served as rectifiers; this happened a couple of weeks ago.

Townshend Audio Allegri Reference Passive preamp!

Krell

I've been using an ARC LS7 since 1998 and have never changed a tube. I also leave all my gear on, 24/7 unless there is a power storm or I'm going out of town. I don't understand how tubes can last this long. I generally listen for at least a couple hours a day.

I would definitely suggest Pass Labs XP22

@jimbones Maybe I’ve been lucky with PreAmp Tubes but what is causing your tubes to go bad every 3 months? It’s been my experience with the Preamp Tubes lasting like forever or until I feel like rolling out for a change in sound. Output tubes on the other hand, I’ve had go sour on me and that’s why I switched to SS amps and keeping my preamp tube. 

I would think a tube power amp would eat tubes much more quickly than a preamp? And big power tubes are generally much more expensive. If anything, I think a tube preamp combined w/ a really good solid state power amp would be the best combo if you need lots of power  due to your speakers / room size. 

Another vote for Ayre.  That's the solid state unit I'd consider if I decided to switch from tubes.

I had a CJ preamp and amp for 20 years… moved to an AGD gallium nitride Tempo di Gan and Alto preamp…. Changing the Class D game… and so good I bought a second Tempo for a second system. Higher end models likely even better though I’ve not heard myself.

I would look for a used Luxman C900U.  

If you really like the sound of the ET5, give Jeff a call at CJ. He may have a few suggestions etc. I own an ET3se and don’t have any problems with tube life. I’ve read about some people experiencing problems with tube life on the ET3 but I haven’t read anything negative regarding the ET5. I assume, you posted a similar question on the CJ owners forum. Another option to consider, trade in the ET5 and upgrade to the ET7. 

First off, no quality tubes, NOS or new should be getting noisy that often, either you're getting close to end of life tubes or pre running those tubes hard.

Last year I tried SS pre after decades with tubes, so purchased Pass XP-22 based on Pass rep of being tube lovers SS. While I tried to like, simply couldn't get past bit of dryness and the excessively precise sound staging. Scratched that itch off the list.

Some things in life you can't have, one of those things is tube sound on a SS component. The answer is AI / DSP wait just a little while and you will be able to tune you system into your perfect warm perfection. 

Hi @jimbones ,  I agree with avoiding tubes..if you can get sweet sound.  For me, at any of their price points, it  is Audionet.. I started with the Pre G1 and it opened my eyes to how a good preamp could sound.  Then the Pre G2 and now ultimately the Stern.  I don't think any of them have balance control though.  My other excellent preamp is a Mola Mola Makua.

C-J is notorious for being hard on preamp tubes. This was one of the factors why I bought a Cary instead. There was just too many reports in the ET series of the 6922 tube lasting only a short time.

most tube preamps are easier on their tubes. My experience is that tubes can easily last a decade or more (Marantz 7C; Audio Research SP6B, Cary SLP05, Schiit Freya and Saga).

SPL Elector. read about it here.  https://spl.audio/en/spl-produkt/elector/

With tube gear, a lot of premature failure of tubes can be traced to too high voltage coming out of the outlet.  When customers complain of excessive tube failure, the local shop has the person measure the voltage.  He then recommends transformers that are specifically matched to the voltage coming out of the outlet to drop the voltage to something that is quite low, such as 112-115.  A variac works too, and has the added flexibility of being able to adjust the voltage to changing conditions, but, for some reason, the fixed transformers sound better (according to my dealer anyway).  I get a close to rock solid 117 from my outlets so I don't bother, but, I know some people who have measured 124 volts from their outlets and that is not good at all for tube gear.

I have been through a number of solid state preamps, Schiit, Benchmark, Coda, Ayre and Pass. I have a Coda amp, but did not like their 07x pre, though it was an earlier version than the one reviewed by Teajay. Noisy. I liked the Ayre, but a quirky issue for me, the lowest volume setting was too loud in my system. I think it only had 40-some levels and just did not go low enough. I liked it though. Benchmark was fun and detailed , but dry in the end. I really like the Pass XP-12, a hint of warmth, great soundstage, it has been a good fit. 

@sns Im not running the tubes anything lol! I plug in the tube and thats it! Its what ever way CJ has it set up. Some of thimes I bought tubes on ebay. (I would think that is a problem as the quality is suspect). I just purchased a new EH6922 for cheap just to keep on hand. Also, I just found a tube in my collection from when I had my Audio Research SP8 in 1980's an American made 6DJ8. no manufacturer noted on it. It is quiet......so far hee hee

Almost no downside to components that use small signal tubes like preamps. I have never heard a S.S. preamp that even comes close in a number of areas to even more modestly priced tubed units. Now with amplifiers things get a bit more complicated.

@jimbones  This not about you running tubes hard, some tube equipment runs plate voltages somewhat high, this shortens life of tube, someone mentioned CJ pre's as running tubes hard, this may be issue here. Someone else mentioned high home voltage as being issue, I had this issue at one time, 124-126v not uncommon, built bucking transformer to bring voltage down to 120V. Excessive DC offset on AC can also diminish tube life.  Drawing excessive current through tubes can also be issue, not likely in a pre.

Unfortunately the ET era (1st round) of CJ preamps had/have a reputation of going through tubes.  Fortunately all but the GAT of that era only use 1 tube.  And definitely the ET5 is a step up from the ET3.  Good luck finding a SS pre that will better the ET 5, without spending a lot or unless you just don’t like the sound of the ET5, which would be difficult to understand.  It’s that good a preamp.  If I were you I’d load up on some new tubes from a reputable vendor (stay away from NOS) and just resign yourself to replacing a tube maybe once or twice a year. Or buy from CJ, which is what a friend does. He says the tubes from CJ last much longer.  The EH 6922 you say you already have sounds good in that pre, are plentiful, and still not expensive.  If you do decide to sell your ET 5 please PM me. I’m interested 🙃.

@jimbones 

Have you considered going with a Hybrid preamp? I’m using a PS Audio Signature preamp. It uses either 12au7’s or the 6dj7 family of tubes.  I tried four different 12au7’s and I settled on RCA Cleartops with new Tungsol coming in a close second.  With it only using two tubes it’s relatively cheap and easy to tube roll.  Nowadays there are several companies making hybrids.

All the best.

Jim

Hey @marco1 I dont have the EH yet, it comes tomorrow. The one I like now is the american made 6dj8. Considering it was in my SP8 in the 1980's Im not sure how much life it has left but it sounds very nice. I'll enjoy it for as long as it lasts. I do have my eye on some Tesla tubes. Not sure how they are though

+ 1 @teajay 

I’ve had my SPL Elector for some time now, and it has scaled extremely well with every upgrade I’ve had so far. 
 

It can be successfully paired with power amps at least up to 10k - not what my amp costs not anywhere close! But it’s been reviewed accordingly and I can see it based on my experience.