@jimbones I did really like the Pass XP-22, just couldn't justify having two preamps. My greatest issue was the more tightly drawn images, this means outer edges of images more defined, with my Coincident pre, images more slightly blend with other images on soundstage, more bloom is how some describe it. The Pass is highly resolving/transparent/involving, highs will probably sound more extended vs CJ or most tube pre.
Pass didn't sound sterile or anemic in my setup. I will say it didn't have the harmonic textures or micro dynamics of my Statement pre.
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@sounds_real_audio I have a Holo Spring3 DAC. Not sure if that qualifies as upper echelon but i think it does...
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I would not hesitate to consider a very good DAC. Bricasti is excellent and there are sure to be others. The Bricasti that I had has the inputs you require, a very versatile remote and offers so much more then a simple preamp. So rather then pay for a good preamp and then wonder if you DAC is no so good, worth a try.
Fewer interconnects as well.
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Just wanted to thank everyone for all the good suggestions. I am in a good place in that I dont have to give up my tube equipment. So I dont lose any of that magic. When I go to SS, if I dont like it, I can always go back to tube. I am not so sure I wont like a good Pass preamp..I think I could live with it LOL!!!
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Coda and Luxman are both good suggestions if you really have to go the SS route. The Aric Audio Motherlode is the best consideration if you still want the tube performance and can live with the nominal tube maintenance.
Take a hard pass on Pass preamps. I have owned both the XP 20 and XP30 and they pale in comparison to their amps. The sound is anemic, sterile, and far from musical.
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@ jimbones
Sorry to hear of Classe's demise. I understand they were purchased, a few years ago... In that case, only consider them if you have access to a great repair center. SS systems are long-haulers, but eventually they need repair.
In that vein, I had Ayre upgrade the capacitors in my amp. They were easy to work with and did a great job.
At your price point, you will have lots of great gear to choose from, particularly used gear. Many have Ayre and Pass trade-ins to choose from... Some AG folks are easy to work with, as well.
Good luck!
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@inagroove Would you still consider Classe? I heard they are out of business again. Also, I heard that the engineers that they had working just before they closed was to finish some work so I am suspicious that their efforts may not be their best.
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@rubicon15 just bought some new Teslas. Lets see how they work out. In the past i used to buy from Andy at ATS and Brent Jessee. They are good but there is no guarantee you are getting new tubes and most are older used tubes. That may be why I get shortened life
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Have you tried Accuphase Pre in the use market? The sound of Accuphase is very seductive, part SS and part Tube. I think you can get a used pre around your budget. I don't have their pre but I have their amps. Both class A and AB are both espectacular when I compare them with my McIntosh MC611 and MC1502 tube. A lot of detail without being harsh or analytical. I heard their Pre are the same.
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@ Jimbones
My personal experience - I have owned and loved playing an Ayre K-5xeMP preamp for many years. Eventually, I wanted to try a good tube preamp and bought a ARC Ref 6SE.
A used Ayre K-5xeMP now costs 1/10th of the new ARC, but is surprisingly good for the money. It is different than the ARC, but it has the clarity, tone and voicing of a high-end preamp, but different sounding than the ARC (SS has a little faster attach and decay).
At this level, you may want to demo a few to see which provides the best sound (to your ears, that day) with YOUR other gear. If I were buying a used SS pre, I would also look at Pass and Classe, yet knowing what I know, I expect that the Ayre outperforms, dollar-for-dollar.
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@tomic601 -- I have bought from Brent Jesse when I was getting tubes for my new Reisong A10 (absolutely amazing little amp -- I saw a review by Steve Guttenberg and thought "What the hell". It cost me a total of $345 and that included shipping! Paid another $120 for upgraded tubes. Awesome amp for my bedroom streaming system). I looked at your pictures...beautiful.
@elliottbnewcombjr -- I agree with your comment! I try to keep a back up set of tubes for all my amps and preamps -- the MC225 is the only one I haven't purchased them yet. Your suggestion makes great sense...start using the new set and keep the originals as back ups/nostalgia.
@dogearedaudio -- I bet those monoblocks were sweet. I've seen a couple for sale and they aren't cheap! And the tubes aren't either!
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The MC240 is a nice amp. Rich, solid sound. I had a pair of the monoblocks years ago and wish I'd never sold them. I wouldn't worry about NOS tubes too much. There are plenty of good new-manufacture tubes available, though they sure aren't cheap. ;-)
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@allenf1963 You are welcome. I strongly suggest either Brent Jesse Brent Jesse Recording Supply or Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services. Both have fantastic knowledge, test equipment and in the case of Brent a 30 day warranty on nos tubes. He offers precision curve tracer matching for what i consider to be reasonable $. They will both typically have some Mc branded tubes as well.
The 225 and 240 use a very unique output transformer and in the case of the 240 amazing bandwidth and extraordinary low phase shift. Difficult, massive and certainly expensive to manufacture. The 275 is a brute ( in its day ) but imo lacks the 240 finesse. Finally… the 240 i run has been lovingly modified w HK style regulators and a bunch of Russian paper in oil capacitors… photos on my vintage system page
have fun.
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buy a replacement tube set now, and an inexpensive tube tester, it will take the dread out of your life, listen without concern!!!
you could install the new ones and keep your old ones that test good as spares. It's always good to have a few spares so you can have music while you research replacements.
test the tubes you buy when you receive them,
live near 07062, I'll test them here.
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@tomic601
1961 -- Amazing. You have been the first person that responded to my post, so I did some online research today on my own. I discovered NUMEROUS comments in Forums and articles that said exactly what you said -- the MC225 and MC240 were legendary for being "easy" on their tubes. Especially those original Westinghouse tubes with the "Made For McIntosh" green print. Many people said they were still using the original tubes...60 years or longer. That is just astounding to me.
I dread the day my luck runs out on the McIntosh tubes. Last time I checked, there were still some NOS available at times, but it always worries me when the website says "Call For Pricing". I have thought about just buying a backup set while I can -- I can’t take the money with me! While I’m in a spending mode, I’ve also been looking for an MC240. I have always been told by my older McIntosh owner friends that the MC225 and MC240 are and were the best sounding amps McIntosh ever built. I compared my MC225 to a friend’s MC275 and preferred mine. Maybe it was confirmation bias, maybe not, but I’d like to hear an MC240 in my system.
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I can’t contribute re: SS for a main system, I prefer tubes. I did have a Tandberg Receiver that I liked a lot, I mishandled it’s input jacks, and replaced it with my one and only Yamaha piece: Receiver CR-1040, sounds darn good and feature full.
Hmmmm, sounds like you have been changing tubes too often, leaving it on too long, warming it up too long, need a tube tester to have confidence in your tubes, perhaps lost confidence in the preamp’s innards ........ perhaps have a pro overhaul it.
A set of tubes should last thousands of hours, and an inexpensive tube tester keeps you from guessing if you suspect something.
https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/viewtopic.php?t=911
IF you want a unit without remote and/or balance, you can use a Chase Remote Line Controller RLC-1: either 4 sources directly to it, or sources to preamp, use tape or processor loop for the RLC-1.
You MUST have the remote, no controls are on the unit. Here’s a new one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/335449297443?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=e1a75972-957e-11ef-8ac0-353635313061
Dead quiet,There is simply no evidence of it’s existence except you get wonderful remote power, volume, balance, ....
Oh yeah, it has automatic and progressive fletcher munson bass boost for very low level listening,
I've got 3 of them in use and a spare.
Office used just for remote power, Luxman has remote volume, I take a short hike to change inputs, leave it's balance where I set it.
Garage/Shop, via Yamaha Receiver's Processor Loop for remote volume and importantly, mute.
Main, between tube preamp and tube integrated amp for remote system power, remote volume, remote balance, mute: lets me use my beloved vintage McIntosh mx110z tube preamp with no remote features.
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@allenf1963 both the MC225 and MC240 are legendary for long tube life. I have some of the original small signal telefunken that were shipped in my 1961 MC240.
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@jimbones Agreed. I was hesitant to recommend it because your original post indicated you wanted to move away from tubes. The two tubes are only in the input stage while the output stage is SS - so it is a hybrid design. I am still learning, but am told that these input tubes will last a long time. I brought it up because I am really impressed with the improvement - although maybe a full SS would be just as nice. This is my first stand alone preamp though and as such I don’t have experience with other preamps.
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Below is a link to the tubes that were recommended to me for the Premier 17LS2. I believe they are NOS from the late 60's. This is reportedly a longer lasting tube. It's my understanding the c-j cranks up the juice on the tubes in some of their designs and that's why they have a short life span. This wasn't the case in my PV-14L. Those tubes lasted forever.
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/7dj8-pcc88
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MAC SS preamp would probably fit the bill. very flexable as well. Used of course.
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The Ayre KXR is probably one of the best out there. I own the non-Twenty version and find it still performs above what can be bought today.
And, if you really want tubes equipment that isn’t fussy, then the Atmasphere MP-1 or 3 would be my recommendation. And, Ralph Karsten is a great guy to talk to. He is on Audiogon under ’Atmasphere’ or you can just call him. He often answers the phone.
B
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@12many yes that IS a great deal. However it has tubes. Also I'd like to know what they are replacing it with... hmmmm
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You may want to look at the BHK preamp from PS audio. They just went on sale for 50% off. Great deal. I recently added one to my system and it is wonderful. It is a nice balance between SS and tubes.
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If you can find used Krell krc3 preamp. Before I bought it? I read it sounds like tube. The only Krell sounds close to tube? It has rca and balance.
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I would echo the positive comments on the CODA 07X. The new FET version of this preamp is excellent. Absolutely silent, warm tube-like presentation, with great detail and resolution. I replaced a Classe preamp with the CODA 07X and the increase in detail was noticeable while maintaining a very a natural, musical sound.
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I can offer three suggestions to consider that are not the usual candidates. All three can stay powered up all the time:
- SMc Audio VRE-1C - This is one of the most natural solid state preamps out there. Unfortunately, it is above your price range and almost never comes up for sale used. However, you can still have most of the magic with either one of SMc Audio's new stripped down versions, or by having them modify an old McCormack TLC-1 preamp (like mine). These are active preamps with typically +6dB gain, (although mine is a unity gain version) and they provide all the bass and rich tonality you would ever want. Contact Patrick at SMc Audio.
- Life-Changer Audio icOn 5 - These are passive AVC units using Dave Slagle's autoformers in copper or silver. They sound very natural with very good bass, great tone, and just a touch of warmth. Srajan at 6moons uses one in his main system. I owned the 4Pro balanced unit and it sounded very good driving my amps with input impedance of only 10K ohms. The icOn 5 uses a switchable input buffer to allow the full performance to take place with partnering equipment of any impedance.
- Hattor Audio Ultimate Preamp - A very good sounding solid state preamp, and amazing for the price. Get the dual mono, with AMRG resistors, and passive/active switchable gain (0, +3, +6, or +9 dB) using the op-amps of your choice (Staccato, OPA2134. Great display, remote, and outboard power supply. Other manufacturers use their volume controls.
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The answer is simple; Backert labs. I’ve owned both SS and tube preamps and never anything remotely like my Backert pre. The two 12AU7 tubes will last a lifetime. The pristine nature of the sound will blow your mind. I own the Rhythmn and it never fails to leave me in awe after 2 years of continuous listening. It’s paired with 300B mono blocks and the sound is very detailed but with the realism only possible by well designed tube power amps and DeVore O96’s.
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I agree with those who point out that, generally speaking, preamp tubes will last for years, and that the CJ preamp you own is an anomaly or just cranky product design. There are a lot of fine tube preamps out there. I’m particularly fond of the 6SN7 tube for it’s open, natural and relaxed sound, as well as it’s sturdiness, longevity and relative affordability. A number of preamps are based around that tube, including the Black Ice Fusion F360, the Icon Audio Pure Valve, the Cary SLP-98 and the LTA MicroZOTL. Another option is a used Don Sachs Aikido preamp. I myself use my own version of the Aikido circuit, and it’s just a wonderful sound. I'm currently using Sylvania 6SN7WGT's in it. They weren't cheap, but I expect them to last four years or more before I need replacements.
But beyond the 6SN7, there are a lot of great and reliable tube preamps, some mentioned above. I’ve rarely encountered a tube preamp that "eats" tubes. I don’t see any reason to give up your preference for a tube preamp just because one particular model is giving you issues.
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I agree with Marco1. Purchase tubes from CJ or a reputable dealer before you finalize your decision to go with a SS preamp. The ET5 is a nice pre. In fact, starting with the ET3se moving up to the ET7, the lineup is similar under the hood. Of course, the ET3SE doesn’t have two main outputs or a balance control and the additional tweaks made along the way.
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+ 1 @teajay
I’ve had my SPL Elector for some time now, and it has scaled extremely well with every upgrade I’ve had so far.
It can be successfully paired with power amps at least up to 10k - not what my amp costs not anywhere close! But it’s been reviewed accordingly and I can see it based on my experience.
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Hey @marco1 I dont have the EH yet, it comes tomorrow. The one I like now is the american made 6dj8. Considering it was in my SP8 in the 1980's Im not sure how much life it has left but it sounds very nice. I'll enjoy it for as long as it lasts. I do have my eye on some Tesla tubes. Not sure how they are though
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@jimbones
Have you considered going with a Hybrid preamp? I’m using a PS Audio Signature preamp. It uses either 12au7’s or the 6dj7 family of tubes. I tried four different 12au7’s and I settled on RCA Cleartops with new Tungsol coming in a close second. With it only using two tubes it’s relatively cheap and easy to tube roll. Nowadays there are several companies making hybrids.
All the best.
Jim
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Unfortunately the ET era (1st round) of CJ preamps had/have a reputation of going through tubes. Fortunately all but the GAT of that era only use 1 tube. And definitely the ET5 is a step up from the ET3. Good luck finding a SS pre that will better the ET 5, without spending a lot or unless you just don’t like the sound of the ET5, which would be difficult to understand. It’s that good a preamp. If I were you I’d load up on some new tubes from a reputable vendor (stay away from NOS) and just resign yourself to replacing a tube maybe once or twice a year. Or buy from CJ, which is what a friend does. He says the tubes from CJ last much longer. The EH 6922 you say you already have sounds good in that pre, are plentiful, and still not expensive. If you do decide to sell your ET 5 please PM me. I’m interested 🙃.
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@jimbones This not about you running tubes hard, some tube equipment runs plate voltages somewhat high, this shortens life of tube, someone mentioned CJ pre's as running tubes hard, this may be issue here. Someone else mentioned high home voltage as being issue, I had this issue at one time, 124-126v not uncommon, built bucking transformer to bring voltage down to 120V. Excessive DC offset on AC can also diminish tube life. Drawing excessive current through tubes can also be issue, not likely in a pre.
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Almost no downside to components that use small signal tubes like preamps. I have never heard a S.S. preamp that even comes close in a number of areas to even more modestly priced tubed units. Now with amplifiers things get a bit more complicated.
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@sns Im not running the tubes anything lol! I plug in the tube and thats it! Its what ever way CJ has it set up. Some of thimes I bought tubes on ebay. (I would think that is a problem as the quality is suspect). I just purchased a new EH6922 for cheap just to keep on hand. Also, I just found a tube in my collection from when I had my Audio Research SP8 in 1980's an American made 6DJ8. no manufacturer noted on it. It is quiet......so far hee hee
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I have been through a number of solid state preamps, Schiit, Benchmark, Coda, Ayre and Pass. I have a Coda amp, but did not like their 07x pre, though it was an earlier version than the one reviewed by Teajay. Noisy. I liked the Ayre, but a quirky issue for me, the lowest volume setting was too loud in my system. I think it only had 40-some levels and just did not go low enough. I liked it though. Benchmark was fun and detailed , but dry in the end. I really like the Pass XP-12, a hint of warmth, great soundstage, it has been a good fit.
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With tube gear, a lot of premature failure of tubes can be traced to too high voltage coming out of the outlet. When customers complain of excessive tube failure, the local shop has the person measure the voltage. He then recommends transformers that are specifically matched to the voltage coming out of the outlet to drop the voltage to something that is quite low, such as 112-115. A variac works too, and has the added flexibility of being able to adjust the voltage to changing conditions, but, for some reason, the fixed transformers sound better (according to my dealer anyway). I get a close to rock solid 117 from my outlets so I don't bother, but, I know some people who have measured 124 volts from their outlets and that is not good at all for tube gear.
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C-J is notorious for being hard on preamp tubes. This was one of the factors why I bought a Cary instead. There was just too many reports in the ET series of the 6922 tube lasting only a short time.
most tube preamps are easier on their tubes. My experience is that tubes can easily last a decade or more (Marantz 7C; Audio Research SP6B, Cary SLP05, Schiit Freya and Saga).
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Hi @jimbones , I agree with avoiding tubes..if you can get sweet sound. For me, at any of their price points, it is Audionet.. I started with the Pre G1 and it opened my eyes to how a good preamp could sound. Then the Pre G2 and now ultimately the Stern. I don't think any of them have balance control though. My other excellent preamp is a Mola Mola Makua.
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Some things in life you can't have, one of those things is tube sound on a SS component. The answer is AI / DSP wait just a little while and you will be able to tune you system into your perfect warm perfection.
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First off, no quality tubes, NOS or new should be getting noisy that often, either you're getting close to end of life tubes or pre running those tubes hard.
Last year I tried SS pre after decades with tubes, so purchased Pass XP-22 based on Pass rep of being tube lovers SS. While I tried to like, simply couldn't get past bit of dryness and the excessively precise sound staging. Scratched that itch off the list.
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If you really like the sound of the ET5, give Jeff a call at CJ. He may have a few suggestions etc. I own an ET3se and don’t have any problems with tube life. I’ve read about some people experiencing problems with tube life on the ET3 but I haven’t read anything negative regarding the ET5. I assume, you posted a similar question on the CJ owners forum. Another option to consider, trade in the ET5 and upgrade to the ET7.
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I would look for a used Luxman C900U.
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I had a CJ preamp and amp for 20 years… moved to an AGD gallium nitride Tempo di Gan and Alto preamp…. Changing the Class D game… and so good I bought a second Tempo for a second system. Higher end models likely even better though I’ve not heard myself.
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Another vote for Ayre. That's the solid state unit I'd consider if I decided to switch from tubes.
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I would think a tube power amp would eat tubes much more quickly than a preamp? And big power tubes are generally much more expensive. If anything, I think a tube preamp combined w/ a really good solid state power amp would be the best combo if you need lots of power due to your speakers / room size.
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@jimbones Maybe I’ve been lucky with PreAmp Tubes but what is causing your tubes to go bad every 3 months? It’s been my experience with the Preamp Tubes lasting like forever or until I feel like rolling out for a change in sound. Output tubes on the other hand, I’ve had go sour on me and that’s why I switched to SS amps and keeping my preamp tube.
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I would definitely suggest Pass Labs XP22
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