So, I listened to a $1Million Dollar System

Thanks for resurrecting the post!

ozzy

I am not surprised to see fb on $1M system has received skeptical fb! I think this sys is one of “audiocrazy” setups, with only one purpose - to impress! 

heavy spkr membranes&large-coils combined with high order x-over typ have bad impulse response and distortions. 

@emrofsemanon The one problem you prefer eliminating is utterly non-harsh with any bad recording.  Unfortunately, I have some 78s, LPs and CDs which have terrible sonics and great performances.  Harshness is more common among my pop and rock CDs due to bad/horrible mastering, rarely with my jazz and classical (the RCA/Sony reissues of mono operas about a decade ago were awful with compression, no bass, shrill highs and honky mids.  The 1980s CD reissues were direct copies of the LP mastering and sounded just fine).  So, I don't want a $1 million dollar system that makes a bad recording/mastering good if it is sonically.dreck.  That is asking too much and means the resolution or frequency response is not good.  

I intend to purchase Von Schweikert speakers which complete your list.  My current Legacy Focus do NOT provide proper stereo imaging with or without depth at any listening position which VS speakers are known for doing even standing one foot in front of one speaker.  My Legacy Focus do give me very deep undistorted bass though.  I sit on a side couch in my friend's home and hear his VS VR35 exports all the time and it sounds wonderful.  

IMHO a million dollar system had better do the following-

*reproduce proper stereo imaging [WITH depth] at any listening position

*play bass down to 16 cycles at full volume without discernible distortion

*be utterly non-harsh with any recording good or bad

*give me the same audio experience as in a million dollar pro studio

if any of those were lacking, that would be a giant RIP-OFF. 

My living room (2nd system) has a $5,000 system comprised of older equipment and modified equipment and is digital only/tuner too (my wife can use it.

I am now posting my 2nd system profile.

I have a 5 thousand dollar system sounds fine to me . It also depends on your saurse

Listening to the song another mandolin is also in the right channel.

Another great song with Linda is The Blue Train with a very sublime bass starting at about 15 seconds. Not easy for a speaker system to deal with.

You said it yourself. The system was setup to demonstrate huge bass. Too much bass may impress some but kills the music (mids and highs) and make it lifeless.

Given $1M, I'd go into hiding 1st, given the experiences of Lotto winners.....

Get my (well, ours...spouse and self....ignoring her wouldn't wear well....) 'affairs in order and my boots on..' (The Hardest Cut~Spoon)....

I might tweak my audio gear with a few enhancements, but overall I like my trash.  It'd be nice to have the elbow room to fart around with it more than I get to at present....

"Well, wtf Jerry, why don't you dump all that and get something like X, Y, & Zed?"

*mock sigh*

...because, ultimately, I'm an opinionated *hole about all this 'n that and how I respond to it....and it's music, and I've got this thing about how I think and feel about how to approach it.

(This is all good-natured, BTW....my usual stance... ;)....)

Have a great Sunday....😊

I am confident in assuming those who found a million dollar system lacking were not rationalising their way out of suffering envy. 

I am a little put off by such a system only well suited to one listener in a minuscule sweet spot and not so special for a larger audience.Live music is not that way, having a major orchestra performing for only one person in a sweet spot. Should it not be possible to share music? For such a limited sweet spot what is the point of speakers when you might as well use headphones.

@kota1 Yes, it may not be worth $1 million even if it cost that much.  I've heard at least a dozen near and over $1 million systems at shows and at an audio store.  Only ONE type was worth it to my wife and I.  Also, many about 50+ reviewers/critics adore those systems.  Both featured Von Schweikert Ultra 9 and 11s.  With Master Built cables, Kronos table/arm, VAC amp and pre-amp, etc.  Using my classical LPs and jazz CDs-just as if the musicians were performing in front of you, like a microphone feed recreating the event.  

Wilson and D'Agostino are a known synergizing configuration. Not heard that with a loom of Transparent wire though. But I've heard plenty of $1M+ systems and some are very lack luster while others will knock your socks off. One of the best was the Mbl Xtreme system; if I could afford it, and had the right room, I'd have it. Alas, it'll never happen. I've heard it setup a number of places and Jeremy always seems to make the system sing, no matter what room it is in.

Like a number of others have suggested, the elephant in the room is the lack of setup. Wilson should come out to do the setup of the dealer is unable. I've heard the XVX/D'Agostino Momemtum/dCS big stack/Clear Audio Statement with ARC Ref 10 phono pre and Nordost Odin 2 setup a number of times and it is really good. Not quite what I'm looking for, but it is in no way dull. Again, it is all about the room and setup and of course room treatment.

Ozzy, hope you will get to hear a trophy system someday that'll really blow you away. They are out there for sure. I live in a metro area so have access to lots of dealers and to the shows though I haven't been to any for a number of years.

I cannot say that I believe that any system is "worth" $1,000,000.00, although I know that it is easily possible for a system to cost that much or more. At some point the law of diminishing returns kicks in, n'est pas?

This sounds like what happens when I order really expensive wine. My expectation is so high that I'm almost always disappointed. 

I'm reflexively suspicious of these really giant round number price tags. So often these prices are for show off buyers like a newly minted rap star or the like. 

For my personal tastes an ARC Ref 5, Ref 300 Ms, and a set of Maggies with a respectable sub is about all my ear can discern and that set up is under 25K. I'd spend the $970K I "saved" on a '74 365BB (350K) and the rest would go into equity a nice medical building with a plastic surgeon as a tenant- rents used to support my audio addiction. :)

I used to go to Hifi show in Montreal where equipment  is placed in hotel rooms. Just for fun I was trying to go from one room to another without paying attention to manufacturer/price just figuring out what sound my ears like more. In the end the winner was quite cheap Exposure/Spendor system but there was other stuff there wwway more expensive. This suggests that each person would prefer something where specific to their music tastes.

I always look forward to the big VAC room at CAF. It sounded very good this year, a bit downsized from last time. But have not given it a second thought until now.

The Atmasphere/ Classic Audio room was something I could live with and pretty sure that did not crack 6 figures, maybe not even half with the $5500 class D amps all nice and compact and hanging in there with the big boys.

@ghdprentice I always say to each their own. If that happens to be dropping a million dollars on a hifi then that’s something most would never even think about. But if it’s possible surely some will.

I grew up in Amish country which probably accounts for a fair amount of my relatively plain and simple aspirations. My family teases me about it. To each their own. If my hifi could sound 100x better than now I might be tempted. To h-ll with plain and simple!

Honestly guys. What a lot of BS. Let’s assume you work hard for a lifetime assembling your perfect sounding system. Decade by decade converging on better and better sound. That from the time you were 20 to say 70… slowly converged on the best sounding system you could. And at that time you looked at your investment and saw it was  $50K or $100K, or $1M, wouldn’t it be incredibly satisfying? A passion, incrementally achieved over a lifetime. 
 

What is all the bashing about? Ego?

To mapman:

You have mentioned exactly what I mean.

If I spend one million dollars on a hifi it better be at least one hundred times better than what I got. Good luck with that!  I probably need to invest almost as much in a suitable room first. 

One would hope for bigger and louder at a minimum, to the extent that would even matter in most rooms at home.  
 

In a private listening room the size of an auditorium, more of a challenge. 

@ozzy I'm a little surprised that you think a million dollar system should be significantly better than a $100k system.  I suspect that the higher priced system would play louder (maybe even softer), have deeper bass and possibly have some refinement over the lower cost system, but it wouldn't be a night and day difference.  What I'm saying is that for $100k someone should be able to put together an outstanding sounding system.  As always, I could be wrong.  I'm sure someone could pick a specific music track that would sound dramatically different on the systems.

rhale64.

Thank you for the comments. The amp stands are actually (DIY) made from 4" thick maple. I have 2" threaded Audiopoint’s underneath. On the amp stand under the amps I am using Critical Mass footers.

All of this actually sounded much better than the Grand Prix amps stands still pictured on my audio system.

ozzy

Also Ozzy I would say your system and room are more carefully set up. In fact I could guarantee it. Your system in that room should sound fairly close to that. I like your system and room. What amp stands are those? Is that like 3" thick granite? 

SCAENA LOUDSPEAKERS ~ SUNNY & ALAN!!!

I went to a show about 6 years ago. It had almost all of the same gear. Dan D' Agostino mono amps. DCS DAC, Wilson Alexia 2's. I had the exact opposite opinion. Well not opposite but I was so overwhelmed that I kept weeping when I would go in that room to listen. I had never heard anything like it. And still haven't really. It was the most emotionally engaging sound I had ever heard. I mean I was with my wife. I was trying to hide it but it was impossible. I was literally weeping like a baby. It was set up absolutely perfect. So I would say combo of room and setup. 

Clearthinker Ozzys system is posted , just click his name Ozzy.

My own system with everything is maybe close to $100,000 retail. So, I figured a $1M system should sound alot better. Not 10 times better but considerably better than mine.

I guess for now I will appreciate what I have.

ozzy

If I had $1,000,000, I'd buy $100,000 audio system and buy $700,000 house in suburban area (hoping a lot of privacy, especially for music listening with quite loud volume), and with $200,000, modify the house to make a great audio room. 

Looks like most audiophiles have a tendency to ignore the very importance of listening environment. The audio room (or hall, studio, etc.) is more important than the audio equipment.

I still remember, when the Carnegie Hall was remodeled, some audio critics were very disappointed. It was because the interior of the Carnegie Hall was poorer than before. The listening room is so much important.

I rearranged my speakers (Vienna, Mahler) so the speakers have more space behind them. After that, the sound became more life-like!

I do wonder if the $1M system was just so great that it made average recorded music sound substandard or anemic.

Although if it can't play the music I love, it's a no-go for me.

ozzy

So the source is a $2 piece of vinyl. I'm always amazed at what people are willing to burn money on...but...their money. 

I will guarantee you that I get as much enjoyment or more out of my system and still have lifelong funds available for other things I enjoy doing in life outside of sitting on a chair listening to a $2 piece of plastic...🤫

Pura Vida...

As a college student I got to hear a million dollar rig. It was integrated in the room, that was destined for an organist to house his instrument. The pipes were replaced by a stack of quads. The woofers built into the floor, powered by all mono levinson amps. There was a pro tape machine that had recordings of the Chicago symphony made for this guy. So naturally I wanted to play James brown sex machine to hear JB in all his glory. Not so great. The symphony sounded good though. 

I’m glad I stopped at $950,000. From there, it’s a game of diminishing returns.

Please tell me that this is intended to be ironic, or I might have to slit my wrists. 

Eventually (reluctantly) the demonstrator played a few tunes that I requested.

The old problem: you wanted to listen to music, he wanted you to listen to the system.

I have two anecdotal experiences with uber-expensive systems.

One was at a dealer who had set up some Wilson Alexandria XLFs and didn't have to ask me twice whether I wanted to hear the system.  Having heard some Sophias at a fraction of the cost at the same dealer I waited with nervous, even giddy, anticipation.  Then the sound I heard was wholly disproportionate with what my eyes were telling me.  I could best describe the sound as lean, hyperdetailed, lightweight with small images, remarkably similar to what I had heard with a Watt/Puppy system.  Stunned, I kept looking around for an explanation of why I heard this type of sound but could find none; every piece was of stellar cost and reputation.  When the dealer asked me what I thought I just couldn't voice my disappointment and mumbled some type of platitude on the system's performance.

I had the opposite experience at a stereo show when listening to a fantastic mbl system, the speakers being the ones with the double radiastrahler units.  I have never heard a system that sounded so close to that of a real musical event, as if the band were in the room.  Even some knucklehead asking for his Michael Jackson record to be played didn't deter me from deciding that if this system were rated as an A, every other system I had heard during my life was perhaps a C+ or below.  The dynamics were incredibly stunning as were spaciousness and detail as well as immediacy and tonal color.  

So perhaps the differences in the two systems were largely due to setup and system synergy.

Sounds like the dealer may have set the system up the way they liked it, mellow. I heard systems like this at Axpona sound terrible one year, and then sound great the next year.

When I attended Pacicifc Audio Fest 2022, two big 1 M$ systems Genesis and Gebel sounds fine while Accaphela sounds fall short of optimal.

I do not intend to denigrate Accaphela which still sound decent and dynamic.

The point is that it is not easy to optimize big system in room in short time.

Your dealer must fail to optimize big Wilson.

Thomas

It’s the price tag people are dissing. Value of the dollar is depressing, don’t care who makes it IMO it’s not worth a million dollars !! Try going 10 years back, buy some of the best…. Could you even realistically spend a million on a simple very high end two channel system back then ? And would todays million dollar system trash it ? Not likely, technology hasn’t advanced anywhere‘s near that degree. Heck you could buy 2 Genesis 1 speaker systems complete with adequate amps and associated material and still come in way under $1 million. Wilson CronoSonic speakers.. stupid name to boot ! Wait 3 years get em 75% off Lol

Cheers

I was expecting a $1Million dollar system to blow me away! And very surprised that it didn’t even come close. I doubt if I will ever get a chance to hear Mike Lavigne’s system, but it looks to be very nice, probably is impressive.

Now that I think of it, I also asked the presenter to play "Taxman" from the new Beatles Revolver. When he played it, he turned the volume way down and only played it for a few seconds. Hmmn.

ozzy

I would also suggest to all the people who are dissing million dollar systems to listen to Mike Lavigne’s system and see if they think theirs sounds better. I have never heard his system but I’m quite sure it is amazing! 

As someone whose worked in the audio world several times over my lifetime as a technician and even sales and even been the one demoing equipment at CES, etc. show hotel rooms, I can say it’s rarely a perfect representation of what the equipment can do.  Sometimes it’s because the equipment is brand new and has been set up and burned in for 24-48hrs. before the show starts.  So it’s no where near broken in.  Sometimes all the equipment is sent to a dealer who sets it up in they’re building for a few days and has a chance to break it in but as most of us know it can take weeks of playing before a system comes into its own.  
Also, as we know, the center listening position is the only position to be in.  A bunch of other “bodies” in the room does change the perception of the presentation.  Just like when I’ve run sound at concerts the amount of people in the room completely changes how I set the eq’s.  The sound completely changes with more bodies, etc. 
I guess I’m saying all this because you will almost never get a “perfect “ example of what a system is capable of at a demonstration although it should give you a decent idea. 
I know with my panel speakers if I’m off on the set up by just a literal fraction it can completely change the dynamics, detail, tightness of bass.  Being in the electronics world most of my life I never made the kind of money to own that expensive equipment though I’ve heard a lot over the years since the 80’s.  Many of which I wasn’t impressed with at all and even some moderate medium systems I would love to own.  I remember in the 80’s walking into Audio Research rooms with huge IRS speaker systems that were sooo bright and steely sounding that all I could think of is get me out of here!  Even something simple like the wrong cables can destroy the dynamics or make a system sound too soft.  Sometimes it’s just bad equipment!  

I’ve always been more on a budget and have built or at least modified my equipment.  So I’ve been able to “tailor” the sound of my equipment until I’ve achieved the sound I wanted.  Of course every time I improve the acoustics of my room or get a new piece of equipment I sometimes end up tailoring (fine tuning) something else.  “Everything matters” and changes the sound you hear.

If you have the money to spend let Mike Lavigne school you to his system ? And pay him as your consultant.Only if you are passionate audiophile.

At Axpona this year , Quintessense audio were playing expensive Wilson so loud, They did not sound good at all. I don’t think they are using proper gear and cabling as well.

I would assume Ozzy has a very musical system, So when he heard that 1 million dollar system, He knew right away the system is not musical. Without proper matching speakers , amps , preamps , sources, cabling? $1 million dollar won’t do it.Go to Axpona many expensive set up there, But many times I enjoy Andrew Jones set up , with his ELac speakers because AJ knows how to set up system.

So, I don’t want to mention the dealer, for I am very grateful for the opportunity to be able to hear these components. And they put on quite a nice event.

I’m still thinking that the system was set up exactly the way they wanted it to be. Perhaps the Wilson’s have too much hi-frequency energy and they tried to tone it down? I dunno, but it was quite dead sounding.

Also, I know presenters want to use music that shows off the equipment’s ability but music I am familiar with helps me evaluate the equipment.

ozzy

I learned a long time ago that people with a lot of money are often not very smart at spending it.  Very often folks with a lot of anything tend to waste it or not think very much about how to use it.

Hey Ozzy, 

  I was there Thursday too. I spent most of my time in studio 2 listening to the Alexia V driven by ARC and dCS and I was impressed with the sound in that room. The dCS rep was playing a good mix of things to show off various elements of the Ring DAC in the Rossini player and also taking our requests. I really enjoyed the hour or so I spent in there. I didn’t get into studio 1 to hear the big Wilson’s, but for one song (a cover of Brothers in Arms). I have to say I was more impressed with the smaller setup in studio 2. Living close by though, I’m lucky to be able to hear this stuff pretty regularly. Which I’m thankful for. I’ve learned a lot about what I like and what I don’t like just by being lucky enough to have a couple fairly large dealers close by. 
 

Best,

Neal

In years of visiting dealers and going to shows very rare to hear system that really moved me. Even ten, twenty years ago, when my system at much lower level, I judged my system as preferable to vast majority of these setups. Setups at dealers, shows have so many inherent liabilities, may be room, lack of synergy between components, AC quality, high ambient noise levels is major impediment, loss of transparency, resolution here. Things like expectation bias, distraction of senses due to other stimuli  may also impact impressions. Nothing like being alone in one's own dedicated listening room, with an entire system carefully assembled for max synergy. This is real comfort zone, relaxed state, easy to get away from analytical listening mode. For all these reasons and more I don't get excessively negative about less than satisfactory listening experiences of high end systems in these settings.

Maybe someone from @paragonss weighin on OP experience, room acoustics and setup? They carry all the brands featured in the demo. 

Dodgealum - fully agreed! I listened two different times over the weekend at the Capitol Audiofest last year to the big Von Schweickert / VAC system & came away baffled how it sounded nothing like live music!  After. Just a few minutes, I had enough which for myself is the true test of a system -listener fatigue or want to keep on with any good music available.  I heard several other systems there that cost less than maybe just two of the amps total that were much more enjoyable..