Qobuz vs Airplay

Airplay is appropriate for low fidelity portable devices where there is no other option. It is extremely unreliable, low fidelity, and I believe lossy. 

Qobuz is the best of the high end streaming services... Tidal is not quite as good. It is important to stream natively from your streamer. You want to use Qobuz. In my system Qobuz’s sound quality is the same or better than from my $45K Vinyl rig or CD

@ghdprentice Your comments about Apple Music are dated by years. I respect you  a lot but on this one your comments are not quite accurate. Off more than a couple of degrees.

I’m not sure I’d discount Apple Music. They do provide hi-res but not wireless to dac for you need a cable such as AudioQuest DragonFly. Apple does not put out inferior products. Steaming companies see that and are incorporating Apple in their products. That being said I’m sticking with Qubuz and Tidal. Just do not want to spend the time and money to analyze differences. If any, differences are not going to be by wide margin. Apple Music has the largest collection of tracks. Steve Jobs went to the record companies and told them about his idea of streaming individual songs. They “strongly” did not like the idea. Jobs being the visionary won out. Yes, he was thinking of portable devices but that was years ago. Apple is not going to let the HIFI industry by pass them. We can thank Jobs for where we are at today in regards to streaming. I’m a hard core Apple fan. Phones, IPads, watch and Mac and of course Apple Music.

Are you using an ethernet cable or Bluetooth? if Bluetooth get an ethernet cable and hook it up that way and try using the SIM audio proprietary app on your tablet or phone. If connected correctly, there should a difference between AirPlay and Qobuz. 

The only business Apple products have in the music 👂industry is being a remote control for your music service. And I say this with the upmost respect for Apple 🍎. 

@goldenways My son, a programmer for an Apple affiliate said the same thing. We set up Apple Music and compared it to Qobuz, Amazon Music HD, Tidal, and NAS. 

We both agreed the NAS and Qobuz were very similar with preferences varying from one to the other. Tidal was clearly third. Amazon Music HD and Apple Music were essentially tied with variations similar to the NAS / Qobuz comparison.

Apple Music still has a long way to go when an Apple programmer agrees that Qobuz, NAS, and Tidal are superior. We made this comparison earlier this year.

AirPlay is a notch above Bluetooth and a notch below CD.  Chromecast is better but difficult to use with Apple Music (you need to have the Apple Music on an Android Device).

Qobuz does have a trial subscription give it a spin. IMHO Apple Music stinks. 

Qobuz is much better than Apple Music. It is about time that Apple really put something together both of the hardware side as well as streaming to give us a true HiRes listening experience. I am a solid Apple user by the way and I say this as a request to Apple more than anything else. Qobuz rocks.

@goldenways 

Wow. I’m really glad to hear you are having better results with Airplay. I sure am not. My ecosystem is now all Apple M4 Studio, Macbook, iPads, HomePod, etc.  and phones. I try and use it often… and it remains unreliable and Qobuz consistently sounds much better. 
 

OP, ‘Also, once you have access to truly high fidelity streaming audio… most folks start exploring and get lost in the millions of albums that are available and over half a million in high resolution on Qobuz.

@mahler123, look at your Apple iPhone or iPad, whichever one you're using for comparisons. Under settings, there are 3-4 levels of sound quality.. You will see the quality and various data transmission methods - cellular, 5G, WiFi, and hardwired to DAC. Hi-Res Lossless 24-bit/192kHz is not by default. When you did your comparisons, what were your settings?  If you used defaults, you're not alone, including me, in simply turning on the phone and starting to play without checking its settings. 

You can not use AirPlay with Hi-Res files. Apple Music requires a couple of extra steps to access Hi-Res. 

As stated earlier,  I use Qubuz and Tidal for my systems. 

FWIW the current Airplay2 specs max out at CD quality 16/44 which is < hi rez

Over the years, I've tried them all and Qobuz turned out to be the absolute best, then Tidal.  I stream all Qobuz, unless an album is only available on Tidal.  If you want the absolute best sound quality that any streaming service has to offer, then you'll have to go with Qobuz.  Happy listening.   

I have tried both Tidal and Qobuz using my Aurender X100L music streamer connected via USB audio to a Oppo BDP 105. I can safely say that Qobuz does sound very good (the best) but Tidal has a way better selection and a lot if not the majority of the music is available at Studio quality and the rest is CD quality sound which is a slight compromise in my opinion, Tidal is the best of both worlds ,selection/SQ. Go with Tidal. 

And YES do not Airplay anything. 

@badger_erich 

+1

Overall, really appreciate this discussion. I tend to think that I’m a 2-channel analog guy. That’s where my time and investment have been. It’s been a great experience. I think I have a pretty good system, etc.

But over the past few years, I’ve done a lot more simple streaming over my devices. I’ve gone back-and-forth on getting into headphones and explored “desktop” near-field systems. It’s been eye opening. 

I think this is where the real action is. It seems to me there’s (way) more innovation in this broad space of digital. Importantly, I don’t think you need to spend a small fortune to get high satisfaction out of it. Those two things (innovation, less expensive) are going to drive music/audio/experience. 

I’m not trying to derail this convo. Again, appreciate the insights on the main topic.

John Darko did a deep dive into Airplay a few months ago. It is lossy. At best it provides 320Kbps .aac files and often goes to less than that depending on how close you are and other factors. A very long time ago when Airplay first came out, it wasn’t lossy, but upon realizing that it was killing the iPhones’ batteries quickly they changed it to be lossy so the amount of data being transferred is far less. It also now sends data in short bursts and is buffered, not continuous, to free up the bandwidth for any other tasks needing attention.

They should have called it "Airplay 2" but didn’t, hence the confusion on some people’s part.  I’d opt for Qobuz over Wi-Fi every time. Airplay isn’t even as good as LDAC Bluetooth.  But hey, for convenience, and not critical listening, why not use whatever is easiest for you? I use Airplay via an iPAD to stream music from webpages, such as the Internet Live Music Archive to my streamer. Works fine. 

I use an Aurender N200 streamer.  I usually run Qobuz through the Aurender Conductor app.  However I also have the Idagio classical music app which plays through the Aurender using AirPlay. The difference in sound between Qobuz and AirPlay is negligible.  They both sound wonderful. It is true though that hi res files on Qobuz do sound a little better

Is it just me and my understanding of the question but, isn't Qobuz a streaming service and Airplay is just the how you get Qobuz to your streamer?

Dokosan when you say Airplay vs Qobuz how are you listening to Qobuz when not using Airplay?

I listen to Qobuz in the car with AirPlay with the standard car radio.

You know at the end of the day it all sounds good. My baseline is driving in the middle of the California desert with my VW stock radio and enjoying a weak signal of country music. I spend most of my time enjoying the music than being a critical listener. You can call me a lowlife audiophile with this attitude and thats okay. My time on this planet is limited so I gotta spend it wisely. My systems are balanced with vinyl, cd and streaming so comparing is on equal footing. Do compare but not often. As I said before I use you Qubuz, Tidal and Apple Music.

Just a reminder Apple Music needs to be tweaked to get to Hi-Res Lossless 24-bit/192kHz. ApplePlay and Bluetooth will not get you there. Need cabling to DAC

**It’s the bad recordings, poor engineering, gross compression and in the case of vinyl bad pressings that get to me. That I may not tolerate. My system will highlight the bad in seconds. Needs to be a compelling reason to continue.  Like Robert Johnson and older Louis Armstrong recordings.

I listen to Tidal in the car with AirPlay. Just have not set up Qubuz yet. 

Appreciate the discussion.

@jond  Simaudio has a streaming app called Mind (Mind 2 being the latest version) which is built into the 390 and newer North series.  The Mind app is available on IOS and Android.  My listening to Qobuz was using IOS on IPhone to the Sim.  My listening to Apple Music was using IPhone over Airplay (also built into the Sim).  

Simaudio advised me Mind Qobuz > Airplay (Apple Music) > Bluetoooth.  I did go deep into the apple settings at some point to use highest available resolution, though this may be down converted via airplay as Darko notes.  Maybe my hearing is going from all the concerts but to me the difference between Mind Qobuz and Airplay was not night and day.

I primarily use Physical Media, CDs or higher resolution silver disc.  I either play the disc or the ripped copy from my server.  I use Apple Music because my non audiophile wife wants to use it.  Qobuz screwed me on a subscription in the past so I don’t use them any more for about 3 years now.  I use streaming services to audition a disc and if I like it I purchase it.  
  I recognize that Apple Music isn’t as good as Qobuz sonically but its catalog is extensive and it works for my purposes.  So how to maximize the sound? I’ve done all the settings changes as suggested up thread and as someone else noted, AirPlay simply tops out at slightly below CD quality.  I am not complaining; I was just commenting for the benefit of the OP.

  Interestingly if you play a ‘Library’ selection from Apple Music on Apple TV (I have 2 ATVs in my mid fi HT systems), it will play in full Hi Rez, 24/192, if available, but only on ATV.  I’ve thought about adding an ATV to my 2 channel system for this reason but it would require a monitor change and ATVs are buggy little bastards so I’m not interested 
 

Think if you are streaming from an Apple product that is directly connected it will sound far better over Airplay. 

In my car, there is almost no difference between, Tidal, Apple, and Spotify. It's not a revealing system. On my 2ch system, all 3 sound very different. Tidal is best but only when using Tidal Connect, then Apple, then Spotify. 

How you are listening, and using the service, vastly affects the sound quality. Anything running native on the streamer/dac will sound vastly better over any other method. 

I use Qobuz and it's fine but for more serious listening, I opt for the aiff files on my external SSD. My biggest objection to Qobuz and all the others, is that non of these streaming services identify those behind the remixing or the remastering. 

No one at Qobuz or any of them. Do you mean from the source of the tracks?

@dokosan i’ve had the SIM Audio 390 in my system in the past and I think it is a really good product, very well built and accomplishes a lot of things. I thought the Mind software was very good and SimAudio does a good job of maintenance. I think the advice you got from SimAudio is probably about right from my experience. 

I have both Qobuz and Tidal. I have less experience with Apple Music and Amazon, but I understand that both have improved significantly in the last few years and there are people who prefer one or the other over what I use. While I generally prefer Qobuz, I know plenty of people who like Tidal better and it can vary from track to track. There is no objective “truth” here, it’s a subjective preference and we all hear differently. Easy enough to try both and choose what you like, and I suspect your preference concerning the user interface will matter a lot more than sound quality.
Again, that’s just my opinion, but I would say to someone who says that one is “objectively“ and definitively better than the other, let me see your objective proof. I still prefer the sound of a well recorded vinyl album on a high-quality turntable to streaming, but that’s just me, doesn’t make it right for you. And really, the ability to access millions of tunes at CD quality or better(And that’s another big debate concerning high rez) for 15 or 20 bucks, a month is incredible value that greatly enhances the whole experience.

I’d pick the service you find the easiest to use and be happy.

I’ve tried all the major streaming services.  Qobuz is the best combination of music quality, selection, ease of use and price in my experience.  I no longer use Airplay except when connected in my car.  

If the Mind can do Qobuz Connect or Tidal Connect give these a try not a bad UI. 
 

As to Apple Music Airplay vs Qobuz yes there’s a difference but it may not be important enough for you. Try and see. 

I’m tracking for wireless connection to device processing and amplifying the signal to the speakers there is

Airplay, 

Chromecast

And UPNP(?)

For wired— Ethernet cable if not also USB cable 

Apple Music highest res is 44 kHz regardless of transmission medium 

Qobuz and Tidal highest res is up to 192 depending on the file and only if transmitted wirelessly via Chromecast, UPNP, or cable.  Highest “Airplay” wireless transmission caps out at 44 kHz. 
 

Do I have that somewhat right?

Apple Music highest res is 24-bit/192Hz. 

Airplay is limited to CD quality (16/44) last I knew.  According to ChatGPT, it is not limited to 320kbps, fwiw.  Regardless, you can’t get what you’re paying for out of Qobuz or any high-res service.  And its playback isn’t perfect. Furthermore, your phone is the player, which is problematic for many reasons and I suspect the phone may introduce degradation of its own.

I believe Tidal has caught up to Qobuz for quality since Tidal ditched MQA.

I have a Marantz Model 40n and I love it.  It has Tidal Connect and Qobuz Connect, so it will play those services at full resolution, and it connects to them directly itself - your phone is just the controller, not the player. 

@sextantcv4 Marantz is part of the Denon HEOS ecosystem, so you can add that to your list.  With my 40n I’ve got a high (enough) end class A/B amp for my main listening and small Denon Home speakers around the house for whole-home audio.  I feel this is superior to Sonos and Airplay.

With B&W 606 S2 mains my setup is perfectly adequate for my aging ears.

Yeah. Arcam tells me I have to control it and through Chromecast or UNDP To gain above 44 on Qobuz or Tidal.   I can check back on what they say about Apple Music   My impression was Apple Music was limited to 44 but I see someone said otherwise

Apple Music is high res, but like Tidal and I think Qobuz, their library ranges from 16/44 to 24/192.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/118295

Honestly I have to really try hard to hear the difference between 16/44 and anything higher, and 16/44 is certainly sufficient.  I grew my audiophile ears on CDs, so that's my baseline.  I can hear the difference between 16/44 and many Spotify 320kbps tracks.  Unacceptable for anything but background music.  If Spotify ever gets off its fat ass and releases its high res tier, I'll probably switch to that because I already have a Spotify family account for my wife and kids, and I think it's "radio" functionality is better than Tidal's.

Prior system had Simaudio 390 NP with ARC VS115, ARC LS17, and Revel F32. Used Qobuz 95% to stream over other streaming apps. IMO, Qobuz sounded so much better than Apple Music/ITunes via AirPlay especially with Simaudio 390 NP.

Alpiner.  Thanks for that Apple support link    I can’t see how from the link one can listen to 192 lossless on Apple Music to other than an Apple device and even if I’m reading it correctly, an Apple TV won’t support lossless

1. Select or unselect Lossless. Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).

so for Apple Music, how does one listen to greater than 48 kHz on other than an Apple device?

I don’t use Apple Music, and (edit) HEOS does NOT support it at full resolution.  Yeah I came to the same conclusion about the Apple TV box, which I have.  It’s a shame because I otherwise like the Apple ecosystem.

If you’re not into HEOS, I can recommend Cambridge Audio streamers like the MX10 I had before HEOS supported Tidal and Qobuz.  It has a fabulous DAC and a fabulous app for playing Qobuz or whatever.

Very interesting discussion. I had no idea there were various streaming resolution levels as iPhone setting options. Thanks for the information.

Anything with Apple or "mac" labeled, run! Run away. 

so for Apple Music, how does one listen to greater than 48 kHz on other than an Apple device?
 

That’s the problem - you can’t. Apple is a closed ecosystem. It’s why you can’t access your Apple Music library on Roon and other music management/operating systems and streamers beyond AirPlay. But if you have Apple TV, Apple Music, an iPhone, and Apple headphones you’re good to go with Hi-Res lossless. This seems both intentional and smart because to some extent it encourages consumers to buy into the ecosystem; not just their new device/phone.

The only workaround that I’ve found is either having an Apple or Android phone/tablet, Apple Music, and outputting to a DAC (AQ Dragonfly for example) into an amp.

Soundiiiz, which is generally free, can help you transfer library’s between the major music services if heavily invested in Apple Music.

When I had a Qobuz subscription it didn’t work well if I was mobile, such as driving.  Apple at least has been glitch free in that respect 

“Anything with Apple or "mac" labeled, run! Run away. ”

To where? If you say Windows you have no credibility. If you say Linux you’re out of touch. 

@ericrhodes Yes yes. Run run into...........darkness

My Cambridge Audio Stream Magic app was recently updated.  Last night I accidentally hit the Qobuz tab.  Previously if I had hit the tab I would get my account information along with a notification that it was inactive.  This time I had full access to.  My old playlist and the few downloads were right there and I could access new recordings.  I predicted that this glitch would be transient and when I checked back a few hours later I could only sample recordings on the search function and my downloads disappeared.

  However..it had sounded marvelous.  When I had cancelled Qobuz earlier I was actually using a streamer that cost 3x the CA but I didn’t remember it sounding so immediate.  I realized that I could renew Qobuz through the Apple App store, which is much easier to cancel apps through than dealing with the actual services .

  So now I’m back in.  It’s a mystery to me how certain companies do a better job implementing streaming services than others, but it’s a phenomenon.  And if Apple doesn’t prioritize SQ, at least they make it easier to interact with companies that do