Purchase on Audiogon arrived not as described
Hello,
I purchased a speaker pair through Audiogon that was listed as a 10/10 falwless pair. The speakers arrived damaged. They were not properly packed they were piano gloss finish and only packed woth a single layer of a very thin fabric cloth and one layer of bubble wrap in a flimsy single layer cardboard box single boxed.
The speakers arrived 11/30 (Thursday) and due to work I wasn't able to open the package until the night of 12/1 (Friday). I took photos of the unboxing process and I was surprised to see how little packaging therewas for a 50lb+ speaker pair with piano gloss finish. I was extremely careful unpacking the speakers and after unwrapping them I saw the damage. One speaker is busted on the bottom with a crack, the other speaker has 3 large strike marks and chips to the edge.
Within minutes of seeing the damage I contacted the seller. I have no way of knowing if the speakers were damaged in transit due to poor packaging or if the seller scammed me. I contacted the seller within minutes of seeing the damage and explained the situation. The seller immediately became defensive and said I had plenty of time to evaluate the speakers and that I probably didn't like them so I purposely damaged them. This offended me and was quite ridiculous. The speakers were at my house for one day and I didn't unbox them until I had the time the next day. The speakers have remained in the original packaging taking up space since this date.
I tried to communicate with the seller and the seller completely stopped answering messages through audiogon. I filed a dispute through Audiogon and linked the seller Audiogon's policy on selling and items not arriving in the condition listed. The staff at Audiogon managed to get ahold of the seller and told me the seller was not being reasonable. They advised me to file a PayPal claim. I filed my claim on 12/3 after spending two days communicating with the staff and trying to have them be a middleman to communicate between the seller and I. The seller never responded.
I have now been waiting for weeks on the dispute with paypal. The seller responded to the dispute and is fighting to keep my money. I offered to send the speakers back to the seller from the beginning and properly package them how I would have liked to receive them packed. I am worried about paypal being so slow and have heard stories of paypal siding with scammers before.
Not having the original boxes is usually a deal breaker especially speakers. Did the pictures in the ad not show those areas of the speakers? And did the pictures appear "stock"? Another red flag. I have been very fortunate with my hundreds of purchases. One negative hundred dollar used dac that did not work. Wrote that off.
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First you have to ship the speakers back , just ship and don’t say anything ,no signature required, once you do this call your credit card company if that’s how you paid and file a claim ,either way even Ppal will not refund you until the item is returned, I had this happen and then the seller refused shipping , Be smart just ship ,No Signature required and take pictures showing the speakers how received , any damage to boxes 📦, and re ship. But ship back asap , and follow tracking. Once back you have to get a refund. And with PayPal escalate the claim but 100% it has to show they were shipped back and tracking and Delivery I have been through this several times in the past. |
Guess I was lucky on my first and so far only purchase on Audiogon. Got exactly what was described. Personally, I would never buy monitor or bookshelf sized speakers that weren't listed as shipping in original packaging. For floor standers, regardless of packaging, I would only consider sellers within a 3 to 5 hundred mile driving distance for a 'local' pick up. In our hobby, buyer's remorse really sucks because it usually has a high price tag and even higher expectations attached to it. Hope there is a happy ending for the OP. |
I had something similar happen but it was the carrier who damaged the speakers and in this case, both you and the seller maybe right. The speakers are very heavy and ballerinas aren't the ones loading and unloading the speakers in the transport..... now did the seller get insurance.... if not that is a no no. |
In my experience, as long as you’ve submitted all the necessary supporting documentation (listing, pictures, timeline of events, email communications) to paypal, there shouldn’t be an issue of getting your refund. Its a drag that it takes a 3-4 weeks, but they usually come through. I’ve had this situation happen a couple times before, with inexperienced sellers (only low $ items), who had false confidence about their packing ability and think surely the buyer is pulling a scam. I've never understood this deluded mindset. Yeah buddy, I went through all the trouble of purchasing an item, damaging it myself and asking for my own money back. Brilliant scam! |
We all started with zero feedback…I usually ask if the person with zero feedback had any selling experience. And if there is any shipping damage how are they going to resolve the situation. The answer to these questions pretty much determines the course of my transactions. As far as my experience with speakers, never ship them through UPS or FedEx unless they are protected by heavy dense foam and multi layer of cardboard boxes. Unfortunately most low to mid level speakers have very poor original packaging. |
You first have to send them back, once there is receipt of delivery ,your credit card Company will. Give you a provisional credit . Why wait ? If you have possession no one will give you monies back, and with PayPal call them ,only during the week for claims and disputes. , my self credit card company if that’s how you paid by. |
If this was UPS, generally the shipper files the claim. The rules are very specific and include seven sets of photos. However, in this case, UPS will deny the claim due to insufficient packaging. https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/file-a-claim/supporting-documents.page#:~:text
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@carlsbad2 I'd use it for any transaction over $500. Not so much for the $$ security but for the hassle-free nature of how their system works. I've done 7 or 8 transactions with zero hassles. |
jl35, I agree, I had a pair of Monitor Audio Gold 100 Monitors (one box) and a pair of big Klipsch RP 800F’s (1 box each) both factory shipped in single boxes, but both were extremely well packed with form fitting styrofoam linings and seriously heavy cardboard boxes. Two good sized gouge holes in one of the Klipsch boxes but no damage to the speaker. |
Always, ALWAYS, insist on insured shipping for the full amount if the seller is paying for shipping. If you are paying, then spring for fully insured shipping yourself. It is my experience in Lakewood, Ohio that the UPS store here will not accept a high value insured shipment that is not double boxed with proper protection. They opened a very expensive ($2,500.00) camera lens in front of me which I was shipping insured to make sure it was properly packed. It was very well packed and they taped it back up as good as I had it when I brought it in. The owner told me I wouldn’t believe how poorly packed some people tried to ship things insured. |
@jhcjr You would use escrow for a $1700 purhase? |
I was denied a credit card chargeback because the fraudster said I didn't contact them. the credit card said it is their policy that you work with the vendor first. So follow the correct order (that one did not involve paypal). Realize that paypal will require you to send the item back before you are refunded. I hope you don't think you can keep the item and get refunded. Jerry |
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2637213 What a bummer. I purchased a pair of "open box" KEF R3 Metas earlier this year. Totally love them. Too bad you're having such a terrible experience. |
Thanks @viridian . Nice to know who this bum is. I hope the moderators ban him for good. |
The clown didn’t know how to pack the speakers. Case closed. You won’t be able to try to get your carrier to cover the damages unless they packaged them. You don’t pack any audio product with just 1 wrap of bubble wrap. |
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@newtoaudio100 sorry I was probably unclear. I meant that Audiogon should be more helpful to you. If you went through them, and they took their fee, they should credit you back, deal with paypal, etc. |
I filed on the 3rd so hopefully paypal can get back to me soon. On the tracker for the claim it shows they haven't even reviewed everything yet. They estimated they would review the sellers response on December 8th but it's been nearly two weeks. Thanks everyone. I'll update with what happens. Audiogon staff told me the seller did not use shipping insurance through them and I don't know if the seller did through the carrier.
I have sold a few things on Audiogon and always made sure to pack them well and use insurance. Sad that it has to come to this. Thanks everyone. |
@ozzy @lowrider57 $1700+ total through pypl for kef r3 meta black gloss finish. |
@roxy54 the seller had no previous feedback. I left negative feedback. I can disclose the sellers name later once this case is complete. @jetter if paypal does not resolve this within the next few weeks I will have to escalate to the credit card company or I will miss my opportunity. I am trying to follow paypals rules and go through them first, I heard they don't like filing through a cc company simultaneously. @grislybutter I thought I did it through audiogon. I submitted an offer then I believe I paid through the checkout system on the website. I used paypal as my payment method with a cc.
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I was lucky in my past buyings ... Big amplifier and delicate devices... I sold a tube amplifier with 50 tubes once and they were so well wrapped that the buyer was not able to retrieve them without a planified scissors and knife deep exploitation for more than one hour ... 😉 I wish you retrieve your money and had a joyful christmas... 🎄 |
the reason to buy THROUGH and pay a fee TO Audiogon is to avoid situations like this. Was the shipment insured? If e.g. UPS damaged it, and you or the shipper declared and paid to insure the value, you can file a claim with the carrier too. The packaging and not double-boxing for the speakers is a bad start and reflects poorly on the seller. |
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I wonder about this seller's previous feedback history. I always ask the seller about the packaging he will be using, and if not original, is he experienced with proper packaging etc. It's apparent that this packaging was woefully insufficient. I truly hope that you get your money back, and for the sake of others here on Audiogon, when it is resolved you should let us know who this creep is. Best of Luck |
@jacobsdad2000 the seller didn't ship them in the original packaging. They were shipped in a walmart box with only a paper thin fabric and single layer of small bubble wrap <1cm. The cabinet of the speakers were basically touching eachother and the walls of the box, there was just the fabric and bubble wrap. The seller stopped responding to me weeks ago but they did respond to my paypal dispute. I can't see what they said though. Anxiously waiting for paypal to finish the case. |
