Rich and Anti,
You two should team up and make a YouTube Video so everyone
can see and learn.
How about it?
You two should team up and make a YouTube Video so everyone
can see and learn.
How about it?
Pimping your router
@pokey77, I am not familiar with your setup. Are you currently running a 20FT fiberoptic cable from etherRegen to your streamer? My Apple router is only 4FT away from my streamer and ENO Filter can only accept RJ45 LAN cable. The improvements I’ve heard with ENO were so pronounced over my JCAT Net Isolator that I didn’t bother to pursue any further comparisons. Plus i like passive nature of ENO, no wall wart or LPS needed with ENO. |
Hi everyone, Might be my first post here. I sell/troubleshoot enterprise grade wifi as a day job and can attest to many of the comments in here. For those advocating for a dedicated network just for your audio, I'd say likely unnecessary and possibly brings about challenges (co-channel or adjacent channel interference) than it might be worth. Anything in the WiFi6 standard can handle 10-20 clients rather easily. Mine go from basement to second floor comfortably in my new (old plaster walls) home. So if you're going to use it do 5GHZ in the same room and you should be more than fine. You can use "Airport Utility" on an Iphone to quickly see what your neighbors are doing and ensure clear RF as shown in the picture above. Lastly the notion of WiFi being optimized for mounting on ceilings is 100% true, for the enterprise class products. If you bought it at a big box store it's likely more for desktop....and if you have the articulating antennas you can play with them a bit to adjust polarity to optimize signal. Hope this helps! EW |
@lalitk And you liked the ENO better than the EtherREGEN if I remember right? Did you try the ENO with the ER? Reason for asking is that I have my ER with an SR4T powering it near my router, which is in a different room 20' from my system. Just wondering if adding the ENO may provide another significant SQ benefit. BTW, I did try the ER next to my streamer, but it sounds about the same whether 20' away or in the same room, and maybe just a little better 20' away. |
Interesting conversations.....I have tried Fiberoptic years ago and to my ears, fiber did not sounded fuller and dynamic compare to LAN cable (RJ45). I also prefer a simpler and clutter free approach, the fewer devices (conversions) in the chain yields to better signal integrity and minimize external interferences. My streaming setup, Apple router ➡️ Network Acoustics LAN Ag ➡️ ENO Ag Filter ➡️ Streamer. The Apple router is treated with Stillpoints ERS (EMI/RFI Suppression) cloth. I may try Acoustic Revive RLT-1 to see if there is any further improvement in lowering the noise. For now, I am very satisfied with ENO Filter. |
Recently got roughed up by the learning curve of adding fiber. Different SFP's and fiber sound different just like cables sound different. Some are thin and bright, others dark and muddy. I have 2 suggestions, first find Finisar FTLF1324P2BTL 4gb Fiber Channel SFP Transceivers on ebay, second for fiber https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/phoenix-contact/2989284/?qs=MfVUZiz0Pxb22RFH%252b7EEOg==&co... However I am using one Finisar 1324 on the ER and a Finisar 1318 on a SOtM switch and prefer it to 2 1324's. It has a slightly fuller softer sound, maybe a little less detailed. |
@chorus, The Etherregen allows you to go optical between the router and the ER and on most accounts that is preferable. This eliminates ethernet related tweaks. Conversely the advice on cabling between the internet connection and the router, the improved power supply and shielding of the router and potentially the use of the Acoustic Revive filter at the router stay valid. Even if you decide on an optical connection, keeping distortions out of the chain from the onset has benefits. Also see above comment on the usefulness of filters between ER and streamer |
The elimination of RFI from the Ethernet input of my Bricasti M5 streamer in my system has transformed it to the point that I’ve now sold my £4K turntable and will now press on with selling my vinyl. In my system, streaming wins hands down. Industry disclosure: I'm a Network Acoustics designer. @Chorus, our experience shows the ER benefits a lot from an Ethernet filter on the output. |
I stream wirelessly but did notice a perceived improvement in sound quality when switching out the two really cheesy DSL cables from wall to router provided by my ISP with those in the link below. Much more substantial in terms of both cable and connectors, and I would expect shielding as well. And if I'm imagining things, the cost was quite low. ;) http://www.cablestogo.com/product/28721/7ft-rj11-high-speed-internet-modem-cable |
@aschuh, the real test would be to have a dedicated hard-wired streamer feed your Oppo via ethernet or USB. In your current setup you don‘t really have a way of assessing the upgrade potential. Unfortunately wifi receivers have their own noise issues. Additionally you may be in a neighbourhood without bandwidth constraints on wifi through multiple users; most people tend to not be in that happy position. |
@antigrunge2 - Gotcha. The interference I get. Thanks for explaining. I thought part of the problem you were describing was data loss and that just didn’t make sense to me. @cleeds - I guess that’s the way my brain works when thinking of these things, but what you said makes good sense to me, too. Thanks for the thoughtful reply and I might have to give it a go. |
My set up: Spectrum broadband cable (200 Mbps) -> Arris Surfboard Modem (up to 1 Gbps) -> Linksys WiFi mesh system (no bandwidth loss when compared to speed of service at modem; note that CAT5 is spec'd at 100 Mbps). This allows for modem, router and switching power supplies be physically distant from the system, in my case ca. 30'. No incremental noise. When these items are close to the system and connected on the same circuit, they add audible noise, even with use of a decent power conditioner (Shunyata Hydra alpha). I run a Roon core on a MacBook pro (set as priority client on Linksys system), which is via Toslink connected to a DSPeaker 4 and via WiFi to an OPPO 205 (10 ms buffer). Both configurations are excellent, the OPPO has an edge over the DSPeaker. I realize frequent comments here that using a computer as server is inadequate and "noisy". In my case extensive comparisons with an Aurender (fed via Ethernet) and Auralic device (WiFi) did not reveal any discernible difference and visitors with trained ears could not reliably tell one source from the other. It seems in the end this is all about implementation. In my experience you can achieve excellent streaming results via WiFi. Good luck! |
ohmy Digital packets either arrive, or they don’t ... I’m genuinely curious. To those of you who have noticed a difference from this kind of effort? What percentage of the total music experience does this add? ... if it’s a low percentage, how are you sure that it’s real and not perceived? Again, I’m being genuine here ...The notion that you can describe an improvement in a percentage doesn’t make sense to me. There’s just no standardized measure. On the other hand, if someone says, for example, "it improved the bass a lot," that’s something to which most people can relate. Or, as @antigrunge2 wrote above, there is "harsh treble, reduced imaging" without it. If you’re genuinely curious about this tweak, why not try it for yourself and report back? |
@ohmy, the issue isn‘t about loss of data but rather about EMI/RFI as well as ground level noise getting into the system alongside the data and subsequently messing with analogue stages. This manifests itself with harsh treble, reduced imaging and a generally washed out, less dynamic presentation. Hence the lengths to which I have gone on keeping them out. Hope that helps. |
I understand the possibility of interference when electronic components are very close, but besides that, why so much concern? Digital packets either arrive, or they don’t. For instance, a few feet and a few dozen feet mean nothing to data integrity. Turns out they do matter if you want your buy to be first in the stock exchange. But again, that’s an issue of a data packet being first, not of it losing integrity or not arriving. I’m genuinely curious. To those of you who have noticed a difference from this kind of effort? What percentage of the total music experience does this add? If your current listening experience is considered 100%, does this add 50% better sound, 10%, 0.5%? If it’s a low percentage, how are you sure that it’s real and not perceived? Again, I’m being genuine here, not snarky. |
@musicfan2349, You can certainly turn off the node during vinyl playback or alternatively place the ERS on top or around mesh. I am using a small cut-out on top of my Apple router. https://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ers |
Yeah turns out proper shielding is a thing. I wrote about improving my streaming experience but hadn't tested the effects on the rest of the system:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/bluesound-node2i-and-wifi-frustrations-mesh Turns out having the mesh node in the stereo cabinet is a bad idea with regards to my C-J Premier 6 pre-preamp... It's VERY sensitive to EMI. So I either need to move the mesh node across the living room and run Cat5 or shut down the node to play vinyl. *facepalm* Happy listening. |
@richtruss, the EMO filters RFI/EMI as well as ground level noise from long ethernet runs, whether you call or not call that a filter is your personal choice. As to your stated fact that one of these is also built into the streamer: there is plenty of evidence that multiples in series are beneficial and in my case the insertion of the EMO filter was significant for SQ You will also note that I listed an additional Acoustic Revive filter higher up the list, this has passive characteristics as does your ENO filter. Btw: you should make people aware that your post promotes your own product. |
wrap router and LPS in EMI/RFI shielding materialDid you see “Better call Saul” the TV series? Saul’s brother was suffering from severe EMI/RFI allergy and he used that EMI/RFI shielding material all over his house. The guy even had to go totally analog to enjoy his jazz collection without allergic reaction :) |
I wrote my own take on the subject here: https://pqltd.blogspot.com/2021/02/get-optomal-wifi-for-audio-streaming.html |