Pimping your router

I have a Modem with one connection for router.

What would be the best way to connect my wifi router? From the wired router?

Modem - LAN cable - Wired router - Streamer 

                                                        - Wireless router

Typically Cisco and Drytek are mentioned as superior routers. More important than the router though tends to be the PSU

I just realized that I can control my streamer via Bluetooth and that will answer my question. :)

Any recommendation of the good non wifi router to use just for the streamer and what would be the things to look for in Specs?

Also, if anyone can explain the baby steps for having those 2 routers connected together?

I'm a little confused here as well -- I've seen both side to this argument about a dedicated router for my renderer.  Over on Audiophile Style they talk about Unifi equipment.  Anyone over here use it?  Of I'm using Jplay on my iPad to access Qobuz through my opticalRendu, the iPad needs to be on the same network as the renderer, correct?

@antigrunge2 

I like the idea very much of having wired router only for streaming, then the second one for the wifi and rest of the house.

Wired router out - one port to wireless router and one port to the streamer.....is that right?

Also, how would you control the streamer via wifi then?

Haven't yet resubscribed to Qobuz. Will be a few weeks away. 

Some changes though:

Have upgraded my wifi router to an Asus RT AX86U Pro

Replaced LPS fuses on switches and wifi router with SR Orange

Changed my modem LPS to a FiiO PL50, with a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse for it

Ordered a set of IsoAcoustics Gaia III to go under my system rack

Ordered a Furutech NCF FI-33 IEC inlet for my Puritan PSM156

Upgraded my modem cable Canare L4.5CHD coax cable with Canare connectors

Have Blue Jeans Cat 6a Horizontal in wall ethernet cable to install and replace my wifi extender

Upgraded my power cables to Mad Scientist Black Magic Ultra

Replaced an Uptone Audio USB Regen with an ISO Regen

Upgraded Mad Scientist Black Magic Ultra USB cable to a Mad Scientist Black Magic Gold

@gladmo 

Sorry for the delayed response.

I have the Stack Audio SmoothLan in. But cancelled my Qobuz subscription of the summer. Will reactivate that in March, and evaluate the SmoothLan then.

The antenna geometry determines the shape of the equal power boundaries. Obviously router specific. They are generally designed for max signal at same level as receiver. 

‘mostly below’ is an inaccurate generalization—if its actually true for any router. 

@jerrybj any SmoothLAN impressions yet?

@jerrybj

have a look at Zoerax Cat8 on Aliexpress. I used Onti Cat8 originally and had to switch to it when Onti was discontinued. Great cables, both.

 

...while I originally used the Acoustic Revive RLT1 filter on my streamer and then Etherregen, I have now moved it to the Draytek Vigor 2860 router, i.e. right at the entry point of public ADSL. The resultant clean up of soundstage, insteument timbre, attack and decay is simply unbelievable. Very highly recommended.

I will end up moving things around a little when the SmoothLan arrives:

- Acoustic Revive RLI-1GB-Triple C LAN Isolator between router and first network switch

Need to install a 30 feet length of ethernet cable (probably Supra Cat8). Then...

- Pink Faun LAN Isolator from wall ethernet outlet to 2nd network switch

- Stack Audio SmoothLan between 2nd network switch and streamer 

@agisthos

my general experience is that eliminating noise as close as possible to the source has substantial advantages to trying at later stages. Equally applies to improving your power: heavy work on junction and fuse box (e.g. Akiko Audio), separate spur with quality outlet (e.g. Furutech) and well shielded solid core rather than litz power cords (e.g. Acoustic Revive) have benefits stronger than subsequent power filters or conditioners.

in LPS I use a Zerozone 2020 on Router and Etherregen and a Sean Jacobs Dc3/4 on DAC and clock as well as Kingrex on Acoustic Revivr RR77. The problem with wallwarts is that they kick back grunge into the mains which then has a tendency to show up elsewhere in my experience.

@antigrunge2 

Just realised you were first to suggest using a wired router only, and offboarding a separate wi-fi router if required. Even before @sns suggested it !!

But regarding LPS, I always championed them and found they improved everything non network, but when it comes to switches and routers sometimes its the reverse and the stock SMPS is better.

Maybe I just do not have enough LPS on hand to find the correct one for network gear. In the meantime I found the iFi X and iFi Elite SMPS power supplies work great with network hardware, a step above stock SMPS.

Yet another update: while I originally used the Acoustic Revive RLT1 filter on my streamer and then Etherregen, I have now moved it to the Draytek Vigor 2860 router, i.e. right at the entry point of public ADSL. The resultant clean up of soundstage, insteument timbre, attack and decay is simply unbelievable. Very highly recommended. 

I have a few Waversa EXT-1 LAN filters (inline filters) and have been playing with different positions in the audio/network chain.

But had not tried it yet where you suggested. This is huge. I had no idea the public cable internet line was bringing so much noise into the house. The weird part is my streamer and TV, which both saw improvement doing this, are two network devices away.

Cable Modem > Cisco Router > LHY SW-6 Switch > Streamer/TV/NAS

I put the filter inline between cable modem and Cisco router, the earliest point in the chain possible.

Yet another update: while I originally used the Acoustic Revive RLT1 filter on my streamer and then Etherregen, I have now moved it to the Draytek Vigor 2860 router, i.e. right at the entry point of public ADSL. The resultant clean up of soundstage, insteument timbre, attack and decay is simply unbelievable. Very highly recommended. 

Pimping your router is 101 for good streaming

I just put a Ferrum  Hypsos LPS with a LessLoss Marc entropic pc on my mesh node router and the system sounds noticeably better. Less noise, greater detail, greater dynamics. No downside. Obvious on the first track. Crazy hobby. 

Doesn't it just slow the network traffic down to 100mbps, rather than cause the streamer not to work?

For example I would slow down ports on a managed switch from 1Gb/s to 100mb/s, and a 1Gbs streamer would still work.

But this was done at the switch level, perhaps an inline device like what most network filters are will indeed cause problems.

@jerrybj 

Great, hope to hear your impressions soon. 

@lalitk

And in answer to your question, yes, I have ordered a Stack Audio SmoothLan.

@lalitk 

That is an important point for those who have streamers with a 1Gb/s interface.

From what I understand a 100 mbit/s interface is very common in streamers. As mine is. So will be fine. 😀

@jerrybj 

And I just got their reply, they replied promptly.  So please check your device before you place an order. 

“Hope that you are well and thank you for your enquiry into the SmoothLAN. Unfortunately, the cap is 100mbps so it would not be compatible with your 1GB/s network device. I have noticed that this information is not on the website so I will now add it in, thank you for reaching out and apologies that we could not provide the solution for your network.”

@jerrybj 

Did you order the Smooth LAN Filter yet? The specs are quite scant…I sent an inquiry asking its compatibility with 1Gb/s network streamers. Some filters like Muon only uses 4 cores (100 Mb/s) vs 8 cores cable architecture design thus making them incompatible with streamers that requires Gigabit Ethernet. 

Have had success with Stack Audio products.

Auva 70 under my speakers, and Auva EQ under my Puritan PSM156.

Looking at purchasing a Stack Audio SmoothLan network filter.

Another update:

I managed to insert a EMO EN-70HD in the ADSL link upstream of the router on the theory that galvanic isolation AHEAD of the router might be desirable to decrapify the incoming signal before it even travels in the Ethernet link downstream instead of directly before the switch.. Shazam! Significant increase in detail retrieval and soundstage. Never ceases to amaze how much fine tuning is needed on a proper digital link.

@brenn : I have Verizon FIOS too, with the G3100 (Home Router), but I have no idea what the coax filter is. Are you talking about a Point of Entry (POE) MOCA filter? I doubt that will do anything for audio. Not sure if it’s necessary at all for anything, as you actually have fiber going to your FIOS ONT, not coax 

Does anyone recommend a coax filter for my Verizon FIOS network? Is it even necessary?

Good name for a band!

Usual suspects. Uptone Etheregen or Eno.

Do you have any suggestions?

With that setup all you have is network optimization prior to server. In my experience pre server optimization much less important than post, still may be of some value to you.

Thanks for the response but forgot to mention I have. Lumin d1 that is a streamer/DAC combo.

@brenn I assume you mean multiple filters or filters and optical. There are a minimum of two points where multiple devices wouldn't be redundant. This would be pre server and post server, these devices will block noise going into server, post server device block noise produced by server from getting into dac.

Some believe daisy chaining these devices is effective as well. I've found daisy chaining two usb rendering devices is effective in my setup. For example at present  I'm using Sonore Opticalrendu followed by Uptone USBregen.

So it’s my understanding that an ENO… is or provides galvanic isolation so why would you need both? Seems redundant.

Yep, connectors are entrance ways for RFI, another reason I prefer optical.

@thyname 

Fully agree with you on the "zeroes and ones".

Digital has advanced tremendously in the relatively short period of time since the CDs were introduced, then streaming. Along with better understanding of what’s needed to make better sound, design, and implementation. Meanwhile, some folks are still stuck with “zeroes and ones” rhetoric. 

So if noise makes a difference to to 1 and 0,s that make up the data where is the evidence that its now say 1.2 and not the original value of 1 that it started out as.

If it remained as 1 its the same value resulting in the same sound?

If you want an EtherREGEN, I've read they only have parts to make a few hundred more. So you might want to look into that. I have an ER + LPS and love it. But you should also check into the ENO filter, does not require power, and several posters here on the Agon seem to think it is better than the ER. You should do some research and make decision. Good luck!

Wow, that’s quite a shopping list!

Enjoy

Thanks. I’d thought the EtherRegen should be last thing into the streamer. Have bought an 0.25m Meicord Opal for that task.

Have thought about cleaning up the signal from the repeater’s ethernet out. Options? Read about the Eno passive filter as a possibility. Others?

Will have to sell some gear in the new year, and can then look at getting an EtherRegen, plus an LPS for it. Have bought a few things in the last couple of months. A modded Dac, Project streamer, Akiko Tuning Stick and Tuning Chip, Black Ravioli Big pads, 2 x Meicord Opals, 2 x LPSs, a wifi extender, as well as had my amp recapped. Have also ordered SR Purple fuses for my amp and Dac.

That's been a busy couple of months.

The Etherregen should be directly in front of your streamer; the connection via Meicord Opal as short as possible. Rather than use a repeater consider using an Apple Airport as a repeater. Repeaters going via the power lines collect all sort of noise on the way. Alternatively you might use a mesh wifi setup.

From where I sit there is no need for a network bridge once you get the Etherregen since that is a 4 port switch in its own right. I’d also suggest you experiment with shifting the LPS to the Etherregen and consider getting a second one.

I'm planning ahead, with mind to improve streaming. Has to be via wifi. Have an LPS ordered for my modem and wireless router. Also bought a TP-Link repeater for my streamer, as it has an ethernet port. Will go Meicord Opal to streamer.

Considering for next year:

1. Fidelizer Airstream wireless router.

2. EtherRegen.

Where should I put a network bridge in this chain? Are there any with less than 8 ports?

Then will look at a clock a little later for the EtherRegen.