jay23,
Although I do question your ability to reach conclusions about what effect the mat has on sound quality, given your lack of experience with it, my reply was rather snarky.
I apologize for that.
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Ozzy, thanks for the time and effort you put into your last post on the E-Mat, very thorough and well written!
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oregonpapa, 68pete, lak,
Thank you, though I think the mat does provide (about 5%) improvement the price is pretty high for that amount of improvement. However, with my system, that 5% is quite noticeable.
I have read so many posters including Tim that say the mat improves with more extended use. I’m not really sure how that can be. But, I have been wrong and amazed before so I will continue with an open mind.
ozzy
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@ozzy Only 5%. Well I guess it is system dependent because I would say I have about 20%(just a rough estimate), but the gains in soundstage bass and overall relaxation of the music has been better then some pretty expensive power cord upgrades. Also someone mentioned that the mat adds emotion to the music and I could not agree more. Much more toe tapping and enjoyment of music. And yes mine has improved over the days since I added it. I would say the impact of the mat may be greater then the impact of total contact, which is kind of unbelievable. |
^^^
The combination of Total Contact and the Omega E Mats is stunning.
Ozzy ... did you remove all of your Bybee devises as suggested? The reason I ask is, either your 5% estimate is way too conservative, or there is something interfering with the mat's ability to work as advertised.
Frank |
kedoades,
To me 5% is quite a bit. The Omega mat is not equal to a component upgrade/change but it does add to my enjoyment. Could I live without it? Sure, but I would prefer to keep it.
Perhaps if I had more of them to work with my estimate would change. However so would the cost. In my perspective, if 5 of them are needed to improve the sound substantially then for that $3000 I would first consider a component upgrade, or perhaps the SR active grounding block.
oregonpapa,
I removed the Bybee’s that were at the circuit breaker box that I replaced with the Omega mat. I did not remove all of the rest of the Bybee’s throughout my system. Again, if I had more mats then I would replace the Bybee’s.
ozzy
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Littlecx,
when I spoke to Tim a few weeks ago, he said that it helps his laptop run cooler but we did not discuss any sonic benefits in detail. We just ran out of time. You may want to give him call or just ask him through the forum. I think it may help since a lot of digital noise is generated from computers in general.
I guess I just asked the question.
Very courious,
rc
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I am impressed with the Omega Mats improving a system over an extended period of time. I placed one mat on the sub panel circuit breaker door June 10 and one on my Oppo 203 DVD player and Pass Lab INT-60 amp on June 18. This week I noticed further improved audio and video improvement with the AV system and audio improvement with the stereo system.
I am pleased with the results on these three locations and have ordered additional Omega Mats to try with my SACD players, headphone amp, and on the main circuit breaker door.
I have found the improvement generated by each Mat to be worth their price. It certainly is easier than swapping out power amps (my Pass Lab INT-60 amp does weigh over 100 lbs). Also the break in roller coaster (to me) is less than when comparing power cords and interconnects. Finally the cost to return the Mat with it's 30 day return policy makes it rather fun to try.
David Pritchard
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Kedoades,
I have, over the last two years, spent considerable resources on power supplies, interconnects, powerchords, power plugs and vibration control devices. In my system I have had surprisingly good results in doing so. In that time I have not changed out any components. I have found that power conditioners and powerchords have give the most impact in reducing digital glare. Next the vibration Control devices brought out a more organic guality in the music. The interconnect upgrades have also aided in further reducing the digital noise further, thus extracting even more musical detail.
The Total Contact upgrade provided a stunning across the board upgrade to all the previous upgrades to my main and office systems. This upgrade was one of the least costly of all the above mentioned upgrades save for the power plug change outs.
The cost of two Mats is just as an effective upgrade as The Total Contact and just as easily heard. I put the one that Tim sent me on my +/-15 year old CD player’s transport and it made it sound like a very decent analog rig. The second Mat, that I will pay for, was placed on the inside of the door to my breaker panel. Both systems improved subtlety during the first week and a half. At the two week point it really did improve both systems dramatically. Both systems are now sounding substantially less digital.
I hope this gives you anothers perspective on the value of the TC and Mat upgrades/tweaks.
Thanks,
rc
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Ozzy ...
How did you end up with the Total Contact experiment in your system? Was it an overall improvement, or did you remove it before it settled in? I’m asking because the combination of the TC and the Omega E Mats, as "rc" said above, is quite dramatic. A startling improvement in my case. Steve (Fleischer) found the same thing in his system as well. Mribob (BOB) is testing six mats now with initial impressions that are very positive. He’s very conservative in his assessments, much like yourself. If you gave up early on the TC and removed it, my suggestion would be to get more TC and redo the system along with more mats. There has to be a time when your reaction would be ... "Holy Crappola!" :-)
Frank |
I'm looking for suggestions here from those that have a positive experience with the E=Mat.
I received one E-Mat from Tim and placed it into my system #2 under the HFC MC-6 power distributor. I thought that might be a good location since the MC-6 feeds power to my Dac, Transport, preamp and FM Tuner. I left the E-Mat there for 5 days but did not notice any differences. Thinking that this might not be the best location for the E-Matt I switched it's location to my system #1 on top of my Yamamoto YDA-01 Dac with the magnetic backer facing up, and the actual working part on the E-Mat laying on my Dac. As of today, the E-Mat has been there for seven days, my system sounds as good as ever, however, I can't distinguish any improvements. Both systems 1 and 2 are audiophile quality, and if I do say so myself I believe I have a pretty good ear when it comes to making evaluations as to what I hear. I'm looking for suggestions as to what to do next? Leave the E-Mat in place for another week or try a different location? |
Lak,
I tried the second Mat on top of my Rega Dac-r in my office system. The improvement was minimal, but noticeable, after a week. After speaking with Tim about it, He suggested that I should place the Mat onto the breaker panel. That gave me fantastic results in musical clarity, PRaT etc... The first Mat was placed on my cd transport and it made a huge improvement after about an hour of being in place. After about two weeks, the effect was even more pronounced and more enjoyable.
I don’t know whether my having treated my entire system with TC first, makes a difference, but I have have nothing but a positive experience with the Mat.
Thanks,
rc |
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We seem to have varying results system to system with the mat. Both Ozzy and Lak are well respected Agoners with a long and solid history of experience here. TC seemed more universal in praise and result. I spoke with another Agoner who shared the improvement with the mat was there, but not substantial. Don’t think we yet know why some rigs respond more than others?
One use of the mat has seemed to garner near universal praise and that is placement in the main circuit breaker panel. Here the placement seems to improve every electrical appliance and system in the home from lighting to TVs and refrigerators! Wow!
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I'm almost sorry to bring this up, but in my main audio system, there appears to be additional audio improvement after 3 weeks. Is it possible that the effect increases between the 2nd and 3rd week as well, more than just subtle? |
oregonpappa,
Tim did send me a small sample of the TC but it was only enough to do the 3 wires that are attached to my 3 dedicated breakers along with the neutral and grounds wires.
I have spent a great deal of money on my main system. And that does not include all of the power cords, balanced power, dedicated lines etc. that I also own. I really do believe that the music starts with quality AC power.
To me, I think a 5% improvement for a tweak is very good. And if I didn’t already have all of the Bybee's perhaps it would have had more effect. Again, I think the Omega mat works fine over the breakers but honestly guys I don’t think its worth $600. I would figure about $200 -$300 to be the proper price point.
But that is only my opinion and we all have different hearing, systems etc. so thanks to Tim a trial is a real plus. I would like to keep the one mat and let it "break in" longer.
Question: What actually breaks in?
Alas, I think I pe’od Tim because he just sent me an email to send the trial mat back.
ozzy
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lak ...
In looking at the pictures of your system, you have a prime location with those large circuit breaker panels. If I were you, I’d put at least two mats on the outside of those panels and see what happens. Your system is such that you should clearly hear the changes. Judicious use of Total Contact would increase the effects as well.
Answer ... get more Omega E Mats and at the same time order a tube of TC.
Frank |
@ozzy Hi Ken,
Sorry you feel that way. Its pretty obvious your not thrilled with it, do us both a favor ,
and please send it back.
Happy listening
Tim
Not sure what part of that makes you think I am P.O.ed.
I thought it was a professional response to your email in my box this morning.
As far as the sample I sent you, it was enough to do your system, it was just over a half a ML, measured it myself. Thank you for your interest
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Say, isn’t Ozzy the same dude that complained a bunch of times about the graphene contact enhancer? Beware the disgruntled controversial tweak customer.
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@grannyring Gee Bill you are leaving a lot of out of the second hand story, like the amount of time I spent on the phone with that fine customer. How about the checkpoint I ran him through?
Did I poo poo when he told me you were building him a new linear power supply, and power cord? My exact quote "excellent" I then asked him if the goods would be pre cooked or fresh from the bench?
I told him his system would be changing for quite some time, well past my 30 day return policy. I told him based on his changes I would extend it for him. Satisfaction is my top priority period.
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Tim, you are jumping to conclusions and referring to the wrong person above. Yes, I also talked to the person you mentioned above, but I was not referring to him. Yes, his system is still settling in and he knows that as well as I. No reason to be so defensive. I like your product and simply look forward to learning more about where it works best and in what types of systems. Seems the level of AC tweaking and attention as well as interaction with other system tweaks plays a role here. That is my interest and my post just reflected it. Sorry to say your post is an over reaction and not even accurate. I talk to many folks about audio and you jumped to the wrong conclusion and person. |
Tim, simple question, without giving away any trade secret, what makes the mat different from, for lack of a better example, a simple piece of packing material? How about throwing a little light on this in a manner that would not allow another to steal your formula? |
Never smarten up a chump and never give a sucker an even break. 😬
Loose lips 👄 sink ships 🚢 |
^^^ Twenty Three Ska-Doo ... and ... Oh You Kid.
Geoff ... are you saying not to take any wooden nickles?
Frank |
@jetter A better example would be how does my technology differ from other topical, and in line signal enhancers? I have answered this before.
It is completely different. That is all your going to get, and the return guarantee.
TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE PURCHASED E MATS
IF YOUR ARE NOT TOTALLY HAPPY WITH THE PERFORMANCE
PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL ME.
@grannyring Protective is the right word, Bill. This much I do know for a fact. None of my products are system dependent, that is a myth, and not just my opinion. If the other member you speak of did pay up front
for a mat and is disappointed, shouldn't he contact the manufacture first,
instead of voicing his opinion to someone who put in writing I won't buy
one because of the expense, but would try the cheaper smaller version.
One can't help but to ask, what is your real intention?
These products are like my children, I am proud of what I put into them,
and will protect them to the end.
Happy Listening
Tim Mrock
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Frank and @t_ramey
Thank you guys for starting these threads on two new products that are elevating the musical experience of many music lovers. I enjoy the sharing of experiences and all actual experiences are welcome and useful to our community here. I know both of you do this out of a sincere excitement for the products and desire to share with others. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. I purchase two TC kits because of these threads. One directly from Tim and one through a member. I have also posted several very positive reviews of TC. I am also going to buy the smaller cards if Tim lets me 😕
It is unfortunate the owner seems less excited about hearing all opinions and questions. Tim, you would do well to step back and not appear as though you are treating and intending this open forum to be a one way advertisement. You attacked me and were indeed “short” with Ozzy for no good reason. No reason. I assume, like all of us, there are times when we can respond more appropriately and with more understanding. I hope this is the case in the future as the last thing any of us need in life is difficultly in places where we look for enjoyment.
I don’t want to dwell on this stuff anymore Tim. My benign post stated the mat improved the sound, just not to the level of others/other systems. No mention of disappointment or not working etc... My motive is clear based on my history on this site. My reputation if you will. I want for the community to better understand when the mat will have the greatest impact and where. That’s it.
You are now speculating I have some sort of ill motive here. I am sincerely sorry you feel/see it this way. |
Apparently Tim only wants opinions that absolutely gush about his products to be printed here. If you’re not satisfied, do NOT post your opinion here, send Tim a private message. What a double standard. "Print only the accolades, censor the dissatisfied!" Sorry, that's not how a forum works. Tim, you are really showing yourself in a bad light, here. I understand, your products have come up against skepticism. Your integrity has come into question, etc...But to answer the skeptics with attacks of your own, childish insults, and accusations is an unwise thing for a company owner to do. You don’t have the luxury of that. You have to take the high road. Anything less, and you lessen yourself, your products, and your company.
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What has to be considered is what has happened behind the scenes via Emails and phone calls between Tim and a couple of individuals who post here. So far, Tim has had the patience of Job. At this point he's probably wondering when the locusts are coming. Sometimes emotions get the better of us all and we tend to vent. Human nature I guess.
Frank |
Has anyone found that E-Mats effect improves over 3 weeks or more? Frank has added and removed so many mats that I guess it would be difficult to tell in his system. I have not moved my E-Mats for three weeks and the system just sounds better than ever the last several days. |
@thecarpatian +1 Very well stated! I do understand how Tim would take all of this so personally as they are products he designed and pained over. It's kind of like overhearing someone negatively opining about one of your children. That's hurtful and hard to put aside.
Tim, perhaps if you re-read some of your last posts here you will get a better sense of what @thecarpathian stated so well above.
I was seriously considering a mat for my electrical service but now...? |
It is a shame that this sort of "product" thread accepts any opinion that is of gushing gratitude only. If an individual states a less than the expected experience, or asks the wrong question, that person is singled out (by many, no, make that nearly all), and vilified on this supposed open forum. You can say what you like, as long as it conforms with the positive and glowing comments expected. You call this "freedom of the press"? Only on your terms... |
You guys are moaning and complaining like Tim has absolute control over who posts on this thread and what they can and can’t say 🙄
And yet...your posts are still here. |
The problem with this particular instance of reporting less than stellar performance is that he’s a disgruntled customer who has been gunning for the manufacturer for at least a year. Hel-loo!
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At the risk of asking a question to which I do not know the answer... does Mr. Mrock advertise his products elsewhere? I think this thread can seem to some as an "advertisement blog" and hence the upset over negatives toward the product.
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hifiman5,
If this thread were really one big advertisement, do you think posts like yours would be here?
Tim is allowed to post what he wants here, within the boundaries of forum rules (I believe there are some extra ones because he is a manufacturer?), and you are allowed to post what you want in response. Again, within the boundaries of forum rules.
Seems to me like things are working the way they’re supposed to.
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@tommylion- No one is questioning Tim’s right to post here. No one is moaning and complaining like Tim has absolute power on who posts here (although, given what he just wrote in all caps, he's trying to). Our posts are still here because they are within the guidelines of this forum. Anything else?
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@oregonpapa- Hi, Frank! Hope you are in good health and I’m glad you are enjoying your music more than ever. Frank, I understand where you’re coming from, but that is still is no excuse for Tim’s responses on these threads. Latest case in point: you’ve read @grannyring for years. One of the nicest, polite, knowledgeable members on Audiogon, and who incidentally has said very positive things about TC. Yet Tim, for no logical reason, just accused him of having some hidden agenda against him, simply for pointing out the observations of other members. Frankly, Frank, (always wanted to write that!) if he is too thin skinned and reactionary to every perceived slight on these threads and forum, he shouldn’t be using them as his sole advertising/sales venue.
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I was mainly referring to amg56’s post: “It is a shame that this sort of "product" thread accepts any opinion that is of gushing gratitude only. If an individual states a less than the expected experience, or asks the wrong question, that person is singled out (by many, no, make that nearly all), and vilified on this supposed open forum. You can say what you like, as long as it conforms with the positive and glowing comments expected. You call this "freedom of the press"? Only on your terms...” Makes it sound like Tim has hired a bunch of thugs to beat up anyone who dares to say anything he doesn’t approve of. |
No, Tim just wants those who aren’t gushing about his product to pm him instead of posting anything he doesn’t approve of. You know, that thing he said in all caps right under his snarky answer to @jetter....
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@geoffkait
"he's a disgruntled customer who has been gunning for the manufacturer"
What are the posts where you concluded jaded Ozzy's evaluation of this product? I along with I feel many others believe Ozzy conducts himself in this forum within a very high level of integrity, and based his review on his real findings and feelings. He also requested to hold on to the mat a little longer to test for additional gains that could develop.
Is it possible that you might be sensitive from too many conflicts over products you tried to market?
LP |
“No, Tim just wants those who aren’t gushing about his product to pm him instead of posting anything he doesn’t approve of. You know, that thing he said in all caps right under his snarky answer to @jetter....”
“TO ALL THE CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE PURCHASED E MATS
IF YOU ARE NOT TOTALLY HAPPY WITH THE PERFORMANCE
PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL ME.”
Wow, he’s asking customers to contact him so that he can provide customer service. You know, answer questions, offer tips on how to use the product most effectively etc. Maybe even refund their money.
|
My suggestion to Tim is...
Build your own website! Add a forum to it. Not only that, but have pictures, videos and instructions on how to use your innovative products effectively. |
Many manufacturers have facebook pages. This could be a good idea too. |
The issue here is that this forum is open to all comments, be they gushingly positive, neutral or not positive. An advertiser using this forum as a sole distribution point does not want perceived negative comments out to be seen in the open. You either restrict the comments and free speech to only positive of a product or allow all sides comment. (I am not insinuating anything of the product that this thread represents, just the ability to comment sensibly on whatever the subject is) |
p.s. I do not use any product of this manufacturer, not by choice, but by physical location, no local history of the product being used here and how local's perceive their benefits, and I don't think my system would benefit from and of the products until I have all the upgrades in place. |
@tommylion I read your post with the uppercase quote in it. Its an interesting position to be in, "...IF YOU RE NOT TOTALLY HAPPY WITH THE PERFORMANCE..." How do you measure "totally happy with the performance"? Against what? You only hear tweak improvements for a short time until you get used to it, then it becomes part of the norm. It becomes a case of chasing the impossible if whatever improvements you hear become part of the background. |
lpretiring
@geoffkait
"he’s a disgruntled customer who has been gunning for the manufacturer"
What are the posts where you concluded jaded Ozzy’s evaluation of this product? I along with I feel many others believe Ozzy conducts himself in this forum within a very high level of integrity, and based his review on his real findings and feelings. He also requested to hold on to the mat a little longer to test for additional gains that could develop.
>>>>Search the archives. I don’t have the time or inclination to do it for you.
Is it possible that you might be sensitive from too many conflicts over products you tried to market?
>>>>I’m not the sensitive type. I’m just going by what Ozzy posted time and time again about the TC product, the first batch of which he beta tested. I’m no. 1 here on Agon on sales and feedback so I wouldn’t be so quick to disparrage my products if I were you.
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Tim, when I said I would not buy a $600 mat because of the cost it is not a knock on your product. It is based on the fact that I have just retired and no longer have the income stream to do so. I cannot afford the potential sound improvement of this product (full sized mat). It just won’t happen based on financial needs and priorities. I ask if you are looking for offense? If one is looking for offense they are certainly going to find it. However, if we look for what is good and right we will see and find that. I am talking about our filters and perspective on life, others and relationships. I understand your filter may be tilted due to perceived offenses by others here, but I am not your enemy.
I hope we can can find peace moving forward as I truly believe we have much in common and there is no real offense taking place here on either end. I choose to believe that and this is far more important to me than any product. If I have acted in a negative way towards you or hurt you in any way, then I apologize. I am not perfect and certainly may be blind to times when I hurt others unintentionally. |
Bill
Very nicely said but after reading these posts I see no reason or need for YOU to apologise at all.
I am not retired but also in the boat of not being able to blow $600 x 5 or 6 like some have here on a tweak no matter how good the claimed results.
I would still be interested in trying a number of the smaller mats when they become available. |
But why is he on this thread at all? |
