I recently was selling 2 of the same Krell equalizers. The first one sold about 3 weeks ago and the second one was sold about a week later. Fast forward to Thursday night. I received a call from the buyer of the second purchaser saying that he never received the shipment yet and asked if I had the tracking number. I was very surprised and found the receipt and asked him if he was from Washington as the receipt said. He said no he was in NJ were I live. That shipment should have been there in 2 days. I was now extremely confused. I now looked up the shipping on his purchase and sure enough it said his name but his address was showing Washington. I then looked up the information from the first buyer and the address was the same as the second buyer. I texted a pic of both purchases from him and the first buyer and told him AG had the wrong address down for your shipping address. I explained to him that his address was the same address as the first purchaser. He also went to look it up on AG and sure enough they had the wrong shipping address for him as the same as the first purchaser. Now he then checked his account page and it had his NJ address but his shipping address was showing Washington. Same as the first buyer. I then immediately called up the first buyer and explained the situation and he denied ever getting the second shipment. Now the tracking was showing that it was delivered to him on 2/6 and left at his front door. And no I didn’t get a signature required but if there was one time I should’ve was then. He was a Chinese guy and did sound very nervous and it did sound like he was lying to me. We both wrote emails to AG and they are looking into this very odd situation. I truly believe that it was not my or the second purchasers fault in this transaction / shipping. Also both purchase invoices are not the same numbers. They were 2 different listings, 2 different listings purchasers / I also paid 2 different selling fees when they sold. Now the first purchaser has a second unit for free. I am very upset over this as my record / buyer and seller are perfect. I also feel very bad for the second person and hate that the first purchaser is lying about not getting it. If he was honest we would ship it back to me as I would of paid shipping. Once again AG is saying it’s very ODD and looking into the this. Will keep posted.
‘Did the OP obtain the second buyers address from AG, or PayPal?
How did the OP verify that PayPal has the first buyers Washington address also listed on the second buyers PP account?
I wouldn’t send a refund to the second buyer. I’d look to AG and PayPal as corporations providing selling and payment services to hold up to their contractual obligations in this deal. They should know how and have resources to pursue any legal remedy. The OP and the second buyer working together will exert more pressure on them to resolve the issue.
‘If I bought something on eBay, and the seller followed the rules and sent it to the wrong but listed address, I wouldn’t look for the seller to resolve the issue. How could I expect them to know that the address they sent it to was wrong? Sellers on eBay never contact me to see if the address they see listed is correct.
What a mess. I ordered an item that ended up in Guam, but it did eventually find its way to me, in Minnesota, via Hawaii. There are a lot of things to complain about when it comes to Pay Pal, but that fee is cheap insurance against just such an occurrence (temptation). I doubt a conspiracy to defraud, maybe more of a "Pennies From Heaven" situation. Culturally, this country is heading for a dumpster fire. Even just four years ago, the inclination of a person receiving a "free" item would be different than it is today. Four years ago could you have imagined someone filling the shopping cart to the brim with valuable merchandise and walking out of the front door of a store without paying?
I’ll be the lone voice to support the seller. Just as many say you should verify shipping address, as buyer I ALWAYS independently provide seller with my shipping address. Everyone should do that.
Because this looks like a scam, he is correct in allowing AG/PP to research and advise. Even though the seller has been paid, a scammer knows he has perfect rating and will reimburse one buyer eventually. Or AG or PP will.
I suggest the seller stay the course. Something is fishy here and I suspect the scammer wins only once he receives the returned payment.
I have only purchased 2 things off of Audiogon in recent months, both times the seller asked me to verify my shipping address. Sounds like a pretty good practice to me.
@speedthrillsOnce again u don’t read throughout. I also was sending out a few things that I sold on eBay. So no I do not remember the first buyers address. That was over a week ago when the second Krell sold. I don’t go around remembering peoples addresses.
Well, I'm stumped. It makes no sense at all. I was starting to believe Agon could have buyer number one's address embedded onto buyer number 2's info- but not Paypal. So you've contacted Paypal, opened a case with them, sent them screen shots to prove that they've incorrectly put buyer number one's shipping info as the verified address of buyer number two- and explained that you somehow found these two totally unrelated buyers and sold them the same piece of equipment and shipped it out twice to buyer number one? Didn't you see that the second address was the same as the first btw when you were handwriting the shipping labels? None of this makes any sense at all, none. Something's missing in the connecting of the dots. Best of luck with it all.
@speedthrills I wish it was that simple. First of all I don’t have a printer to print out shipping labels.I write them out and double and triple check to make sure I wrote it correctly. Second. It was the same exact address from the first seller with the second sellers name. 3rd. I took pics of both invoices from AG and PayPal and emailed and texted to AG and the second buyer. Also as I had mentioned the second buyer also saw on his shipping info that he had the same Washington address as the first buyer. Apparently u don’t read throughly.
This gets more and more confusing as I read it. So the latest response from the OP is now that somehow the second buyers PAYPAL verified address posted on the second buyers paypal account is actually the Washington address of the first buyer ? ? ? ?
Not possible imo. I was starting to think it was possible that Agon somehow had the mistakenly given buyer number two buyer number one's address- but its just not possible nor plausible that Paypal has an incorrect address listed and verified for buyer number two that out of 200 mm accounts just happens to be buyer number one's. Sorry. So the most likely scenario os that somehow when the OP printed the shipping label for buyer number two he accidentally reprinted the shipping label for buyer number one. Some variation on this is most likely what really happened imo.
Assuming the buyer didn’t enter the wrong address, which seems a good assumption, pretty clear he’s entitled to a refund from seller. Ultimately, this seems to be AG’s fault, but in all fairness, and I also think in law, that should be worked out between seller and AG,
as the facts are explained, buyer had a right to delivery of the goods, and is the only party of the three involved that could have done nothing to make sure this didn’t happen. Not saying the seller is ultimately the one who should bear the loss, but between seller and buyer the buyer is entitled to a refund leaving seller with a claim against AG at least that’s what my 40 years of practicing law tells me
Hope this works out. Seller sends to buyer number two's PayPal address of record as required by PayPal. That address being the same as buyer number one.... that is so bizarre. I would wait until PayPal and AG provide input and finish looking into the situation before proceeding with any actions.
Have you contacted PayPal yet to find out who exactly is able to add the shipping address to PayPal? I didn't think a third party such as Audiogon can do that, can they?
@steakster -- I know this is an aside from the OP, but I'm confused and interested. You said:
Re: integrity. Years ago, my expensive preamp was stolen. It was sold on Audiogon at a dirt cheap price. The identical serial # was visible in the photos. I contacted the buyer and explained the situation. I offered to buy it back for what he paid - plus shipping. No loss for him. He refused. I was confounded by his obstinance. Fortunately, another Audiogon member suggested ’to let it go’ - before the stress did even more damage.
If it was your stolen Preamp being sold, and the Serial Numbers even matched, why was this even an issue? You contact Law Enforcement who can identify the seller from a warrant issued to Audiogon which gives them the person's name and address. If the stolen Preamp crossed state lines it is even further up the chain of illegality. Why were you dealing with the person that bought the stolen Preamp and offering to buy it back from them? Did you file a police report when it was stolen? Did you have pictures of your gear and the Serial Numbers to prove ownership? I'm trying to figure out if I missed something when reading your post -- I was skimming through the thread.
Thanks, and I'm sorry you had to go through that. I have every piece of audio gear that I've ever owned since 1977 except for two items that were stolen during a home robbery in 1990, and to this day I wish I had 5 minutes alone with the hoodrats they caught. My gear was never recovered -- a Dual 1219 turntable and a Kenwood KA-9100 Integrated Amp. Neither piece is of great dollar value but they held big sentimental value to me because they were part of my first "big boy" stereo system. I despise thieves.
The guy claims not to receive two packages while tracking shows otherwise. Obviously we can not be sure 100%, but the "smell" is overwhelming, to say the least.
@fertguy But what is the point. I got paid from both of them. No I didn’t think it was funny. I thought of it when I saw it after the fact that it was very odd. More like a glitch in the system. Also u are talking about some one being Chinese and someone being a white guy. To me it woulda looked more strange if they were both Chinese guys or even from the same state maybe. But u are talking NJ and Washington state. Just about cross county. Cmon.
"@fertguy once again all u say is — Sounds like 2 guys working a deal. But u are still not expecting. Look ,!it may be u are right. I really don’t think so. But u still need to explain how u think it’s a scam between the 2 of them."
Two guys with the same address & you didn't think this was a little "funny".
Or, one guy with two addresses. Just waiting for PT Barnums guy to come along..
@fertguy once again all u say is — Sounds like 2 guys working a deal. But u are still not expecting. Look ,!it may be u are right. I really don’t think so. But u still need to explain how u think it’s a scam between the 2 of them.
@knock1 u too. Please explain this scam to me. @roxy54 I agree with you. Being suspended is a small price to pay for stealing a Krell equalizer. If I could file theft charges I will.
If he has denied that he has it up to this point, why would he now admit it? That seems very unlikely. Being sispended by Audiogon seems a small price for a thief to pay in exchange for a Krell equalizer.
By the way, I will add that just recently, I bought an item from the bay, and the USPS accepted shipment from the seller, then refused to deliver it to me because the seller had neglected to put my name on the package address.
I requested a refund and the seller refused, claiming somehow it was my fault. Ridiculous statement because I received dozens of paypal and ebay shipments this past year, all with my name on the address and never a problem.
PAYPAL refunded me in a few days after I made the claim. I have no idea what happened with the idiot/scammer seller.
Just was informed from AG that Chau Luong account has been suspended. AG is also going to call him about this. Ty AG. If he will admit he has it a sends it back to me all is good and I will not hold any grudges. He should do the right thing about this.
@tattooedtrackman Just so you don't feel alone I have never doubted the address that comes up as a buyer's address when I sell an item. I send them the item. I have never thought to confirm again.
1) Paypal Goods & Services requires that the shipment be sent to the address provided on the buyer’s Paypal account to be eligible for Seller protection.
2) Paypal Goods & Services requires that shipping any item over $750 must include Signature Confirmation to be eligible for seller protection. Without Signature Confirmation, expect the seller to lose the claim.
3) Paypal Goods & Services will refund the buyer if Signature Confirmation was not included in the shipping.
4) Using Paypal Friends & Family has no protection at all. That’s why I always include Signature Confirmation on all F&F shipments - even those with a very low value - as low as $25.
5) Paypal Seller Protection - everybody should read - link here.
_ _ _ _
Re: integrity. Years ago, my expensive preamp was stolen. It was sold on Audiogon at a dirt cheap price. The identical serial # was visible in the photos. I contacted the buyer and explained the situation. I offered to buy it back for what he paid - plus shipping. No loss for him. He refused. I was confounded by his obstinance. Fortunately, another Audiogon member suggested ’to let it go’ - before the stress did even more damage.
Re: Signature Confirmation for items over $750. Once, I purchased an item on Audiogon for $800. Shipped USPS priority mail. According to the USPS geotracking of the mail carrier’s truck, the local postmaster confirmed that the item was dropped off at my address at the stated time. Yet, the package was missing. It probably was stolen off my porch. Both the seller & I had 100% positive feedback for years of transactions. I filed a claim with Paypal. Since the seller did not include Signature Confirmation as required for over $750, he instantly lost the claim. Paypal gave me a refund immediately.
Live & learn. Some lessons are more annoying than others.
@oregon First of all. I do not agree with you about if this was me , the buyer. The seller which is me did send it to the right address that was shown on AG and PP. His name was at the top of the shipping address. Second u say to verify shipping address? Well then that goes both ways also. The seller also should have verified his shipping address. I honestly feel that is was neither of our fault. Or both of our fault to both of us to not verify shipping addresses.
@bubba12 AG has been working with the buyer and me from the very beginning. We email and text constantly keep each other posted. AG has been great as I expected. We hopefully should know more Monday.
For your information the first buyers username name is Chauluong. The one who said he never got the second shipment from me. That’s the guy u should be aware of. If he was honest he would have acknowledged he received another one either to me or AG and shipped it back. With my paying shipping of course.
This is a very unfortunate situation. However, luckily, we aren’t talking thousands of dollars.
There’s a couple things that bother me. One is, the assumption that the guy you talked to is lying, a thief- because he’s nervous and Chinese. It’s reasonable he’d be a suspect because you sent it to his address, but, you cannot prove that he received it because he didn’t sign for it. You didn’t send it signature required. From what you said in your post , you have no proof if he actually received the package. An accusation , assumption, is not proof.
Secondly, it may not be your fault, but, it is definitely not the second buyers fault. The right thing to do is to immediately (if you are convinced that the buyer never received the item) refund his money. You have his money and he didn’t get what you sold him.
You’re the one who has to fight with Audiogon, PayPal, the shipper, the person you assume might have the item, etc.
Best thing to do is to refund the money to the guy who sent you his money. He never received the item you sold to him.
If you were the buyer in this situation, my guess is you would agree.
@audioman58 It’s been said a few times how it was paid for if u read the whole thing. @joey_v Nope it ain’t buyers fault or mine. This totally falls on AG. They are the ones who had a glitch with shipping info in their system. I have been a member on here since 2016 and have bought and sold Amps , preamps CDP. Speaker cables , ICs. Racks , and the liist goes on. I’ve never ever had a problem with a wrong address. Either buying or selling.
@tattooedtrackman.... I have also had dealings with the op and do not question his integrity in any way. I believe that regardless of any agon agreement that they should at the very least be involved as much as possible to help get this resolved.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
