Wow …a brand new member who joined yesterday, and this is a caustic and arguably offensive first post that is just a heavily biased and misguided personal rant ,…= an internet troll substituting normal polite forum conduct with insults.
WIKIPEDIA
In slang, a troll is a person who posts or makes inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topicmessages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game), or in real life, with the intent of provoking others into displaying emotionalresponses,[or manipulating others’ perception. The behavior is typically for the troll’s amusement, ,,,,”
don’t feed the troll.
too bad that the AGON blocking feature doesn’t include the forum posts yet.
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Not sure it's trolling -- it's more in that old news category of "Dog bites man."
The poster seems to be saying that it's his/her opinion that bad music is bad.
Well, duh.
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As bad as some of it is, no way its worse than rap....
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While the "Country" music you hear on radio and see on TV may be of questionable quality, there is a very healthy, active underground "alternative" Country music scene, often referred to as Americana, that is producing music as good as has ever been made. IMO, of course. No, you can’t hear it on radio, or see it on TV.
The mass audience was introduced to the original Hillbilly music of the 1920’s and 30’s in the Coen Brothers movie O Brother Where Art Thou. The Brothers wisely hired T Bone Burnett to do the music for the movie, and he did a fantastic job (in 2002 the album won the Grammy Award for Album Of The Year). T Bone has long been involved in the Americana movement and scene, amongst his productions a pair of albums by Alison Krauss (a long-time leader in the modern Bluegrass genre) and none other than Robert Plant, a name of course well known to the mass Rock audience. Ironic, isn’t it? At the time Country music was being introduced back into Rock (beginning in 1968, by Dylan, The Byrds, The Band, a few more), Led Zeppelin was putting into motion the modern "Hard" Rock music movement, which heavily emphasized Blues. It took a while, but Robert finally saw the light ;-) .
Music in O Brother includes that by The Carter Family, Ralph Stanley, Jimmie Davis, and a bunch of people you’ve never heard of, plus new recordings by current artists (including Alison Krauss, Emmylou Harris, Gillian Welch, Dan Tyminski, The Whites, The Cox Family). The original Hillbilly music is as primitive as is the Blues of the 20’s and 30’s, the two being more alike than different.
A lot of our most well known Rock guitarists were more attracted to old Blues (Eric Clapton, of course) than to old Hillbilly, but not all. While I like Rock ’n’ Roll guitar a LOT (the 1950’s originators of the style were influenced equally by Blues and Hillbilly), in the 1960’s the Hillbilly element in Rock ’n’ Roll all but disappeared (it remained in the music being made by the likes of The Everly Brothers, Ricky Nelson, Roy Orbison, a few others). These days I find myself more interested in the music being made by those who emphasize the Hillbilly element in Rock ’n’ Roll. (To hear great guitar playing, give a listen to dobro-master Jerry Douglas). The music being made by Marty Stuart And His Fabulous Superlatives (imo the current best band in the world) sounds FAR more like 1950’s Rock ’n’ Roll than does that being made by Rock bands. Marty’s Way Out West album was produced by Mike Campbell, Tom Petty’s guitarist. Mike’s one hip cat ;-) .
There are dozens and dozens of fantastic modern Traditional Country (as opposed to the Country/Rock/Pop of which the OP speaks) artists making great music. There is an annual event named The Americana Music Honors And Awards Ceremony, held at The Ryman Theater in Nashville. I don’t want to again list the many Americana artists currently active, as I have previously done so a number of times here on AudiogoN.
Expecting to hear good Country music on commercial radio and television is as unrealistic as it was to expect to hear Jimi Hendrix or The Mothers Of Invention on AM radio in 1967. It was in that year that underground FM radio sprung up, to serve the counterculture audience who wanted to hear something other than Top 40 Pop hits. The same situation exists today; if you want to hear the good stuff, you have to do your homework. It takes a little effort, so is only for those who care enough. One source is a print and online magazine dedicated to Americana music which debuted in 1995 (I have a complete collection)---No Depression. When Jeff Tweedy (now of course leader of Wilco) and Jay Farrar (now in Son Volt) made their band’s (Uncle Tupelo) debut album, they entitled it No Depression, the title of a 1936 Carter Family song.
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making good music is very difficult... it takes talent, passion, hard work and a great personality... In the case of country music, there is also personal pain - the harsh life of a farmer who has to dig several acres of rocky land with a fork under the scorching sun... A burst of such music expected in Ohio - all the fish died within an 80 mile radius ... precipitation from the sky falls on livestock and they die ... an environmental disaster.
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As @bdp24 explains, “O Brother, Where Art Thou” is a must have Soundtrack for those who’d like to somewhat lick / wet one’s lips in the genre.
Dip your toes ………… :-)
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There are only two kinds of music.
The kind of music I like, and the kind of music I don't like.
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While I despise modern day country music, it is nowhere near as bad as
rap/hip-hop. Of course, what would you expect. I’m just an old white guy in my
70’s who came of age during the folk scare and saw the Beatles live while in high school.
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I would add that Americana (which I love) is not the only genre with quality country music. What I call "outlaw' country is very good - think Hank Williams Jr., Osborne Brothers, Chris Stapleton, Waylon Jennings, Townes Van Zandt, etc. You can find the genre represented very well in the movie Hell or High Water (produced by Nick Cave) or on SiriesXM channel called Outlaw Country.
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@bdp24 - nice post and great background.
I would add that music is art, and the value of art is subjectively judged by the individual experiencing it. With any artistic endeavor, there are usually both supporters and detractors, so judging art on an absolute scale is pointless. As mentioned by @tomcarr - you either like it or you don't.
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This argument is the equivalent of, "I don't like Jazz, because I hate Smooth Jazz". Gotta separate the wheat from the chaff.
Toolbox149
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Any music that people like is good music to those people. But I don't consider music I don't like to be 'bad music'; it's just music I don't like. I like rock and pop and reggae. I don't happen to like jazz and country but I'd never say they're 'bad'. I make no value judgements of genre quality.
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bdp24 - great post on Americana.
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The reason you say that modern country is the "worst music ever" is because you grew up loving that genre and it hurts to see how it has been poisoned by rampant commercialism. "Music" executives have done to country music what they always do. They try to dumb everything down to make it palatable to as wide an audience as possible. That is all they care about. Not the quality of the music or the history of the genre itself.
That being said, it's not even close to the worst.
Rap is the king of bad.
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When it comes to music genres, I'm cosmopolitan. In general I would not like country modern or classic country-western or country rock, but what about Sturgil Simpson??
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The music that bothers me most is the electronic mash of beats and synthesize vocals. Most of the songs like that are terrible to my ears, and they all sound the same. I know music is subjective and every generation seems to embrace music that does not appeal to their parents.
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It’s all Willie’s fault!🤣
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@mcondo: While the term Outlaw Country is widely used as a separate genre---and pre-dates Americana by a few decades, I view the former as part of the latter. By the way, I’ve never cared for Hank Williams Jr., but love Hank III, who sounds a LOT like his grandpa.
If there’s one current Country artist who deserves to be considered Outlaw, it is surely Steve Earle. When Shania Twain was huge (made possible by the success of the Country music Anti-Christ, the deplorable Garth Brooks), Steve characterized her as "The highest paid lap dancer in Nashville". ;-)
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Who cares what Steve Earle thinks anyway? Seems like petty envy to me.
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I admit Shania is a guilty pleasure of mine (she was produced by Mutt Lange, of AC/DC---a favorite Rock 'n' Roll band of mine---renown), but still found Steve's comment funny, and not without merit.
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While the "Country" music you hear on radio and see on TV may be of questionable quality, there is a very healthy, active underground "alternative" Country music scene, often referred to as Americana, that is producing music as good as has ever been made.
@bdp24 Well said. In every genre there is music which is derivative, shallow, meant to make a buck. The issue is a basic one -- about authenticity and musical "heart," if you will.
I grew up despising country music until I lived in Austin, where friends introduced me to the good stuff. I had to repudiate a lot of prejudice I had against it, and agains southern culture more generally, but I was turned around and liberated from negativity and prejudice. I hope some who are taking this thread as a chance to bash rap music might reconsider that they have some potential for personal growth.
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These genre opinion threads never go well.
Thankfully, my tastes go BACKWARDS, from the 80's-not to say I find "highlights" up thru the 90's.
ENDLESS discovery.
Being an LP disciple, it also helps by ensuring I'll likely find something undesirable, still plentiful and CHEAP!
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Every genre goes through bad stages. Rock and Roll has some crap I can't stand, but I'm not going to bash what other people like.
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@bdp24
"While the "Country" music you hear on radio and see on TV may be of questionable quality, there is a very healthy, active underground "alternative" Country music scene, often referred to as Americana, that is producing music as good as has ever been made. IMO, of course"
Keep on preaching that Americana gospel, brother!
"Expecting to hear good Country music on commercial radio and television is as unrealistic as it was to expect to hear Jimi Hendrix or The Mothers Of Invention on AM radio in 1967"
Yes -- excellent point. When I was in HS, ('70 - '74), KMET out of LA was a lot better than the AM dreck we were forced to endure on the school bus but two friends with extensive record collections were responsible for turning me on to most of the good stuff. Likewise, when it came time for me to begin exploring Jazz, a hip manager at the restaurant where I worked in Santa Barbara lent me many records.
The belief that all that's out there is what's on commercial radio is one I've never related to. It's always been a mentorship thing for me.
RE: Fabulous Superlatives, the first time I heard Kenny Vaughn was when I watched Lucinda William's 2nd ACL show. He stood out immediately-- so young and so good!
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What contemporary C&W music lacks is cow bell.
DeKay
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As bad as some of it is, no way its worse than rap....
AMEN! C-rap! It really grinds my gears.
I don't like most of the new "Bro country" for all the reasons stated. How many songs can one hear about trucks, chicks, and beer, fercriminysakes!
But gimme some classic Johnny Cash, Merle, Waylon, the Bakersfield gang, Dolly Parton, Patsy Cline, Kris K, Tom T Hall, and so many other classic country artists (including newer ones like Garth, Lyle Lovett, Emmylou, The Chicks, and that generation)...good stuff. Cash's last few albums produced by Rick Rubin are sweet.
So much music, so little time—I can't list them all. I love bluegrass and new grass too... I can listen to Alison Krauss and Union Station all day long.
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What contemporary C&W music lacks is cow bell.
😅 LMAO! Should I post that classic SNL skit? So good.
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"It's always been a mentorship thing for me" ... before the advent of the internet, obviously...
Now, it's easier than ever to explore unfamiliar musical territory.
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@hilde45: Are you still in Austin? An old San Jose friend of mine has been playing Country & Western (as he likes to call it ;-), Western Swing, and related musics in Austin for about forty years now---Cornell Hurd. Ever seen him live? He’s a great songwriter, some of his recorded by Junior Brown and The Skeletons/The Symptoms/The Morells (same band, different names)---a great Roots Rock band out of Springfield Missouri. Their fans include Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe, and Elvis Costello. Their drummer was Bobby Lloyd Hicks (R.I.P.), later in Dave Alvin’s band The Guilty Men, their bassist Lou Whitney (also R.I.P.) a well known (amongst musicians) Roots Rock recording engineer/producer, whose credits (over 1,000!) include Dave Alvin, Exene Cervenka, Jonathan Richman, The Del-Lords, and.....Cornell Hurd.
@stuartk: The first time I saw Kenny Vaughan live was also with Lucinda, on her Car Wheels On A Gravel Road tour, at The Wiltern Theater in Los Angeles. Leading her band and playing acoustic guitar and singing harmony was Jim Lauderdale, himself very much a part of the Americana scene (he hosts the Americana Awards Show), with lots of his own albums, and one he made with Buddy Miller, Emmylou Harris’ guitarist, harmony singer, and band leader. Buddy is my current favorite producer, sort of the Dave Edmunds of the 2000’s.
@patrickdowns: There is one Bluegrass album you may have missed (a lot of people did), and it’s a doozy! Wires & Wood by The Johnny Staats Project. Johnny won a mandolin and guitar competition, and came to the attention of Bluegrass fiddle superstar Tim O’Brien, who appears on the album. Joining Johnny and Tim are Sam Bush (mandolin), John Cohan (upright bass), Jerry Douglas (dobro. Jerry is favorite currently active living musician), Sara Evans, along with others. The song flow alternates between instrumentals and ones with vocals. A fantastic album! Johnny was offered tour support to promote the album, but declined, as his $ guarantee was less than his day job as a UPS driver paid. ;-)
The genres of Traditional Country (which I call "Hard" Country), Bluegrass, Folk, Singer-Songwriter, and even Country Blues---like Lucinda Williams---overlap, some music having a foot in different camps. One such album is The Houston Kid by Rodney Crowell. The Houston Kid is, I currently feel, THE best album I have ever heard. A perfect album (even The damn Beatles can’t claim THAT), and an absolute masterpiece. Joining Rodney on one song ("I Walk The Line Revisited") is Johnny Cash, Rodney’s one-time father-in-law (Rodney was married to Rosanne Cash). If you don’t already have this album, do yourself a HUGE favour and buy it. Sorry LP purists, it has been released on CD only.
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As Justin Townes Earle (RIP) once said, "I liked country music before they decided to take the blues out of country music."
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Shout-out to yogiboy for sharing those PBS links. I saw part of the Burns series on country music, and have always meant to finish it. I did get the box set of CDs from it, and the ones from his jazz series. Ken Burns is a national treasure!
a
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Personally, I would rather listen to Tuvan throat singing than either country or (c)rap music.
Certainly a provocative first post, mind you, even if I happen to agree with it.
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@bdp24 Long out of Austin but I saw some great people there, including Cornell Hurd. Others too many to mention. Saw some jaw dropping performances at Antones, Cactus Cafe, La Zona Rosa, Continental Club, UT Campus, and on and on.
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Awesome, bdp24. I did find one record by Johnny Staats using Roon ... not that one, but I will keep searching.
Jerry Douglas... one of my all-time favorites! Have you heard the many Transatlantic Sessions he has done Aly Bain and with Irish/Scots musicians? There are at least 8 or 10 of them, with amazing guest artists including Alison Krauss (of course). It was a BBC project, filmed AND recorded in cool locations in Scotland (I haven't seen the videos and want to). Really worth checking out.
➡ This is a great thread now! For me it is much more about the music than the gear, which is only a means to an end. I love discovering new music. ROON is superb at feeding that habit.
@patrickdowns: There is one Bluegrass album you may have missed (a lot of people did), and it’s a doozy! Wires & Wood by The Johnny Staats Project. Johnny won a mandolin and guitar competition, and came to the attention of Bluegrass fiddle superstar Tim O’Brien, who appears on the album. Joining Johnny and Tim are Sam Bush (mandolin), John Cohan (upright bass), Jerry Douglas (dobro. Jerry is favorite currently active living musician), Sara Evans, along with others. The song flow alternates between instrumentals and ones with vocals. A fantastic album! Johnny was offered tour support to promote the album, but declined, as his $ guarantee was less than his day job as a UPS driver paid. ;-)
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@akg_ca Well don’t you just make a newcomer feel welcome.
Good thing the post-# police are out, keeping watchful eye on how many posts people have made, and then strongly advocating silencing people whose opinions they don’t like - “too bad that the AGON blocking feature doesn’t include the forum posts yet.”
If I find myself in the unfortunate position of being exposed to the stuff that comes out of speakers when someone is listening to a contemporary “country” music station, I know what pure, unmitigated agony is.
I can at least, on an abstract level, conceivably understand eating Easy Cheese (well, even that one’s a stretch…), watching The Bachelor or Emily in Paris, or watching curling or NASCAR.
No such understanding with this aural experience.
It is disingenuous to conflate criticism of this aural experience with criticism of, say, Hank Williams, Willie Nelson, Mickey Newbury, or Townes Van Zandt.
As others have noted, there may indeed be plenty of good music today that would be considered “country.”
Again, conflating a criticism of such with criticism of the average, everyday contemporary “country” music station is disingenuous.
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llg98ljk, winoguy17, tomcarr +100%
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I grew up with hillbillies and hillbilly music (in rural New England, actually part of the Appalachian chain I guess). Rarely missed a square dance or a touring singer. I dropped out for a while - when I came back I found it had been replaced by Bluegrass and Country & Western, mostly for politically correct folks I think. Loved the 'Country', not so much the 'Western'. My gods included Hank Williams (Sr) and Eddie Arnold. I'm still amazed when I listen to Hank Williams, that is a voice you only hear once in a life time. Sort of like a present day Eva Cassidy.
OP, learn to appreciate more what you like and to simply dismiss what you don't. Frankly most folks aren't going to be impressed with (your) negative opinions. I'm not.
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What I would call corporate country music is pretty awful. The other side cowboy music or alt country or Americana whatever you care to call it is great.
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Not even close , Rap crap 💩 is the most untalented crewgojng
back in the 60s, 70s Motown was excellent and back then you had to be able to sing,songwriter and play an instrument , no gimmicks , just talent !!
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Not even close , Rap crap 💩 is the most untalented crewgojng
back in the 60s, 70s Motown was excellent and back then you had to be able to sing,songwriter and play an instrument , no gimmicks , just talent !!
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OP did you hear Chris Stapleton sing the national anthem before the Super Bowl? He could be classed as "modern country".
Other than that, all I have to say is thanks (not) for divisive worthless post. Not a great start, perhaps Twitter is a better platform for you...
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I think to appreciate country music, you would have to have been born in the USA. After all, it is the "country's" music. I was born in Switzerland, so yoddeling is closer to my blood even so I don't listen to any. I have lived in the USA for 47 years and I still completely dislike country, old and new, nothing in it resonates to me.
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@baylinor I like country music (I am particular about what I do like) and I’m British. Became a US citizen a year ago but I’ve been here for 23 years so I disagree with needing to be born here.
I respect that you don’t, but I’m guessing you didn’t write a post about it that basically insulted those that do.
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Bhagal you don’t know talent Period.
The late great Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins Roy Clark, John Denver, Chet Atkins Charlie Pride, just to name a few not including country Rock which is another total Great category. country music is all about reliving a story through music . If you want to speak ignorance then there is audio science forum that you would meld right into perfectly !!
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@macg19
I don't insult here, at least that is never my intention. You would have to be pretty lame to insult anyone on any kind of blogs. I guess so many people do it that you immediately went there. Sad state of affair on the blogosphere...
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